11:54:14 From Silvia Vivanco - ICANN Org to Everyone:
https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=132940946
11:55:30 From Silvia Vivanco - ICANN Org to Everyone:
Welcome Christopher Wilkinson
11:55:57 From Silvia Vivanco - ICANN Org to Everyone:
Welcome Negar
11:56:03 From Silvia Vivanco - ICANN Org to Everyone:
We are still gathering
11:58:24 From Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org to Everyone:
Welcome everyone - we will be starting shortly
11:59:02 From Ricardo Holmquist to Everyone:
thank you Holly
12:01:43 From Silvia Vivanco - ICANN Org to Everyone:
Congratulations to EURALO - GREAT GA in Brussels
12:01:45 From Vanda Scartezini - Brazil to Everyone:
hi everyone
12:01:48 From Maureen Hilyard to Everyone:
Its great that you were finally able to have a face to face meeting with your regions members
12:02:09 From Silvia Vivanco - ICANN Org to Everyone:
EURALO GA: https://community.icann.org/display/EURALO/2022+EURALO+Days
12:02:24 From Dave Kissoondoyal - ALAC to Everyone:
Hello everyone
12:03:29 From Silvia Vivanco - ICANN Org to Everyone:
Warm welcome to our colleagues Negar and Giovanni
12:04:09 From Vanda Scartezini - Brazil to Everyone:
thanks maureen exciting moment for the region ..
12:04:48 From Silvia Vivanco - ICANN Org to Everyone:
PIR Article is reference in today Agenda under Reference documents
12:05:03 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
Noted
12:05:05 From Vanda Scartezini - Brazil to Everyone:
yes Holly good text
12:05:05 From Marita Moll to Everyone:
I can speak to that a bit Holly
12:10:34 From Eduardo Díaz to Everyone:
Who is performing these other projects? OTG or the community
12:10:34 From Giovanni Seppia - ICANN Org to Everyone:
MSM wiki space https://community.icann.org/display/MSM
12:11:17 From Marita Moll to Everyone:
MSM issues identified and the projects being talked about are not the same thing
12:11:46 From Eduardo Díaz to Everyone:
@Staf: Please add this link add the bottom of the agendas going forward, including today’s agenda
12:11:48 From Holly Raiche to Everyone:
Thanks Marita - I hope you raise that in this session
12:13:24 From Maureen Hilyard to Everyone:
@ Eduardo. I agree that it would be helpful if any important links are included to the agenda, so that participants can easily access this information after the meeting as well
12:13:26 From Silvia Vivanco - ICANN Org to Everyone:
@Eduardo, noted and I have added MSM under reference documents in today's Agenda
12:14:45 From Marita Moll to Everyone:
Can we establish what we mean, in our own community, by consensus
12:15:44 From Marita Moll to Everyone:
Yes, we need to answer it first not after
12:15:55 From Maureen Hilyard to Everyone:
@Marita there are different forms of consensus in the different communities
12:16:45 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
Ours is both outlined via RoPs and established (usually to match the PDP Guidelines of the classes of consensus
12:17:06 From Holly Raiche to Everyone:
There is also an issue of what each of us understands consensus and what the ALAC rules say is consensus
12:17:20 From Marita Moll to Everyone:
I don't know how to answer that first question
12:17:42 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
Then say no
12:17:55 From Holly Raiche to Everyone:
@ Marita - that’s the first question in the discussion session after this
12:17:58 From Bill Jouris to Everyone:
Well, we THINK we understand the principles anyway. Whether we have the same understanding is another matter
12:18:14 From Maureen Hilyard to Everyone:
Marita I was looking at it from the At-Large perspective..
12:18:20 From Holly Raiche to Everyone:
@ Bill - I think that’s the issue
12:18:26 From Christopher Wilkinson to Everyone:
I am mainly interested in consensus building BETWEEN constituencies.
12:18:51 From Bill Jouris to Everyone:
@Holly, no good way to write a poll question on that, unfortunately.
12:18:56 From Holly Raiche to Everyone:
@ Christopher - another issue for discussion
12:19:00 From Ricardo Holmquist to Everyone:
I fill like I am in the GNSO. So MSM works only in PDPs? and under GNSO rules?
12:19:18 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
That is the assumption we were using for this data capture @Maureen
12:19:52 From Dave Kissoondoyal - ALAC to Everyone:
it is a general question
12:19:55 From Bill Jouris to Everyone:
The other issue with consensus is, it depends on who all is part of the project
12:20:01 From Maureen Hilyard to Everyone:
I was going to ask that question SEbastien
12:20:04 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
Abstain is always a better add to such Polls
12:20:38 From Sébastien Bachollet to Everyone:
Agree Christopher
12:20:39 From Eduardo Díaz to Everyone:
I sometimes refer to consensus process established a long time in the RFCs
12:21:12 From Holly Raiche to Everyone:
@ Ed - that’s part of the issue
12:21:35 From Maureen Hilyard to Everyone:
Maybe it is a good idea to be looking at a consistent ICANN model of consensus - this is a good start
12:21:51 From Holly Raiche to Everyone:
@ Maureen - YES
12:23:30 From Maureen Hilyard to Everyone:
A third option may have been helpful.. because we haven't used the Consensus Playbook as a standard consensus model
12:23:31 From Bill Jouris to Everyone:
Converge? Yes. Converge much? no
12:27:53 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
Sorry I'm late folks. Desi's new family arrived late.
12:28:21 From Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org to Everyone:
Welcome Jonathan
12:28:23 From Holly Raiche to Everyone:
Thanks JZ - we are on the MSM questions - and will be for some time
12:28:31 From Marita Moll to Everyone:
This poll need complete revision and redo with every community. It just does not compute -- as Cheryl is pointing out very sell
12:28:34 From Eduardo Díaz to Everyone:
I can not understand what Cheryl’s saying
12:28:35 From Bill Jouris to Everyone:
Cheryl, you are breaking up. At least for me
12:28:45 From Silvia Vivanco - ICANN Org to Everyone:
Cheryl we cannot understand you
12:29:54 From Marita Moll to Everyone:
Every community has been presented with this poll as a "cold call" without any discussion about what was being evaluated
12:30:34 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
Design of the Poll questions and selection of partici[ant experience are my main (current) criticisms
12:31:00 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
and every community also has different experience with the Play book
12:31:24 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
Exactly @Edwardo
12:31:41 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
HIGE inherent neg bias
12:31:45 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
Huge
12:33:30 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
Well, we could do a LOT to improve our own decision making, especially documenting decisions so we stick with them.
12:33:52 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
That's so very true @JZ
12:33:54 From Holly Raiche to Everyone:
@JZ +1
12:34:07 From Naveed to Everyone:
It is also not clear how the results of this poll are analyzed and how that analysis will be used to reach to a conclusion, given the dimension involved in different communities for "consensus"
12:34:30 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
decisions can always be reviewed and even overturned, but the transparency of it all is essential
12:34:38 From Eduardo Díaz to Everyone:
My apologies, I got disconnected.
12:35:33 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
GAC is a known outlier on being only Full Consensus
12:35:56 From Eduardo Díaz to Everyone:
If every organization is using a different way of reaching consensus, I am not sure why the consensus playbook exists and is so important.
12:36:03 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
and BTW the Play Book is an excellent tool!
12:36:20 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
so great Holiday reading for you all :-)
12:36:20 From Naveed to Everyone:
Even the consensus playbook talks about different types of consensus existing in the community. So, this should also be reflected in the poll
12:36:31 From Marita Moll to Everyone:
I agree Cheryl -- the play book is a good tool
12:37:16 From Holly Raiche to Everyone:
Maybe a session on the Consensus Playbook so we are all on the same page when the questions start
12:37:28 From Vanda Scartezini - Brazil to Everyone:
indeed I believe this playbook helps a lot i have used it in my business and other activities here too
12:37:30 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
so treat this as a pilot to learn from and rerun the eval on this issue with a more advanced survey tool
12:37:45 From Christopher Wilkinson to Everyone:
If the play week is a file, perhaps send js
12:37:49 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
@Holly, Melissa has given a couple of those, I believe. I wonder if we could track down a good recording or get her to do it again.,
12:37:59 From Christopher Wilkinson to Everyone:
Send us the Link. CW
12:38:04 From Holly Raiche to Everyone:
Thanks JZ - exactly!
12:38:25 From Marita Moll to Everyone:
We are not always using the playbook to reach consensus within the community
12:38:32 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
Yes good idea @JZ we could make them recommended review please material for At-Large in general
12:38:37 From Holly Raiche to Everyone:
Agree with you Marita
12:39:01 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
I doubt we've actually "used" it even once, frankly. We would need to be conscious about adopting it.
12:39:06 From Eduardo Díaz to Everyone:
@Marita and Cheryl: Being that is a good tool, does ALAC/At-Large use the consensus playbook as the bases of our consensus process?
12:39:08 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
Recognise there can be no mid exercise changed
12:39:09 From Naveed to Everyone:
My fear is that the poll is over-simplifying things and this may lead to a wrong evaluation and assessment of the process
12:39:26 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
indeed @Naveed!
12:39:55 From Laura Margolis to Everyone:
+1 Naveed
12:40:01 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
It does but not so often overtly as you see in say a PDP
12:40:15 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
that was for @Eduardo
12:40:15 From Marita Moll to Everyone:
Right @JZ -- don't consciously use it. So answering these questions is really frustrating. I just abstained or said no to most of them
12:40:48 From Eduardo Díaz to Everyone:
@Marita: me too.
12:41:20 From Marita Moll to Everyone:
Thank you for recognizing our concerns
12:41:32 From Vanda Scartezini - Brazil to Everyone:
Marita in the other hand since I have used the PB I could answer without much doubts but believe someone not used makes it diff
12:41:54 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
Yes same here @Vanda
12:42:32 From Negar Farzinnia - ICANN Org to Everyone:
Thank you, all1
12:42:37 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
and like Alan G and some others from At-Large we contributed to its creation
12:42:47 From Silvia Vivanco - ICANN Org to Everyone:
Thank you very much Negar and Giovanni!
12:42:50 From Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org to Everyone:
The presentation is located on the agenda: https://community.icann.org/x/nIcFDQ
12:42:53 From Giovanni Seppia - ICANN Org to Everyone:
Thank you all for your input. Rest assured it was a great exchange of views for us
12:43:00 From Vanda Scartezini - Brazil to Everyone:
thanks negar and Giovanne
12:43:15 From Negar Farzinnia - ICANN Org to Everyone:
Thank you, everyone! Very appreciate your time and input!
12:43:34 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
Yes Thanks Negar and Giovanni
12:43:49 From Vanda Scartezini - Brazil to Everyone:
welcome to new family member !!! enjoy the best you can!!!
12:45:24 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
we may need to tweek some nomenclature but sure... Makes sense for current times
12:48:50 From Silvia Vivanco - ICANN Org to Everyone:
AI: Next Agenda of OFB to include an update of FBSC - suggestion from JZ
12:50:34 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
Which would not in my view change it's important ABR work
12:50:44 From Maureen Hilyard to Everyone:
When we established the OFBWG it was not considered appropriate at the time to just drop the FBSC because it was a formal ALAC group
12:50:47 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
that's just a matter of charter
12:51:02 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
Time for a Review
12:51:23 From Silvia Vivanco - ICANN Org to Everyone:
Time check - 9 mins left
12:51:32 From Maureen Hilyard to Everyone:
Very timely @ Cheryl
12:51:37 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
really part of our own Continuous Improvement :-)
12:51:42 From Eduardo Díaz to Everyone:
One less meeting will make it more efficient for all.
12:52:49 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
Decision Making cn be chartered in as opposed to being an expectation of a Sub Committee
12:53:23 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
It would use say a similar model as a NimCOm producing a slate
12:53:31 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
NomCom
12:53:49 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
Not my line
12:55:13 From Marita Moll to Everyone:
Our big MSM input was about evaluation -- but what is happening with that consensus poll is not what we had in min
12:55:24 From Marita Moll to Everyone:
mind
12:55:32 From Vanda Scartezini - Brazil to Everyone:
could be interesting Cheryl
12:55:37 From Ricardo Holmquist to Everyone:
+1 Marita
12:56:07 From Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org to Everyone:
Hand up by Christopher
12:56:17 From Silvia Vivanco - ICANN Org to Everyone:
PIR issue article on the agenda under reference docs
12:57:19 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
We should note SOI's in GNSO are also under separate review ;-)
12:57:24 From Bill Jouris to Everyone:
I would definitely like to see ALAC formally support the suggestion raised in the Circle ID article.
12:57:48 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
It is a recognise issue @Bill
12:58:06 From Marita Moll to Everyone:
It is too late to put it in that GNSO review comment which closed on Nov. 14
12:58:10 From Silvia Vivanco - ICANN Org to Everyone:
CIRCLE ID article: https://circleid.com/posts/20221110-icann-policymaking-should-be-even-more-transparent
12:58:17 From Bill Jouris to Everyone:
@Cheryl, time to move from "issue" to policy?
12:58:25 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
and requirements to use continuous disclosure on changed to SOIs is also not widely enough utilised
12:58:40 From Holly Raiche to Everyone:
@ Bill - It is something for the At Large Community generally - not just us - so up to OCL and JZ
12:59:01 From Sébastien Bachollet to Everyone:
About SOI. I never understood why I have to have a different SOI for GNSO and for At-Large ?
12:59:10 From Bill Jouris to Everyone:
@Holly, but since the CPWG passed it to OFB...
12:59:20 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
To be in a PDP as a Member or Rep you have to lodge an SOI the GNSO SOI clearly needs a revamp
12:59:32 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
@Marita, we still have an opportunity for advice, even though the public comment process has passed.
12:59:42 From Holly Raiche to Everyone:
@ JZ - have you passed it to us?
12:59:57 From Marita Moll to Everyone:
I agree with the principle as well @CW -- but the comment period has passed so we will have to wait for another opportunity -- as far as I understand it
12:59:58 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
I have. But here to support it. Important issue.
13:01:03 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
Webinars are essential for us to attend
13:01:05 From Silvia Vivanco - ICANN Org to Everyone:
The announcement for the Webinars will be published next week
13:01:18 From Raymond Mamattah to Everyone:
Byeeee
13:01:21 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone:
Bye for now
13:01:21 From Marita Moll to Everyone:
packed meeting!!! thanks
13:01:27 From Laura Margolis to Everyone:
Thank you! Bye
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At-Large Regional Policy Engagement Program (ARPEP)
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