Zoom chat: 2021-01-25 Unaffiliated Individuals Mobilization Working Party Call

11:59:46 From Nadira AL-ARAJ to Everyone : hi Thank you for the welcome
12:00:08 From Nadira AL-ARAJ to Everyone : the Internet connection since morning is not stable
12:00:21 From Nadira AL-ARAJ to Everyone : I might be dropping in and out
12:00:33 From Joanna Kulesza to Everyone : hi all!
12:00:39 From Michelle DeSmyter to Everyone : Okay, thank you, Nadira
12:01:11 From Sarah Kiden to Everyone : Africa now here
12:01:14 From Sarah Kiden to Everyone : :-)
12:02:22 From Heidi Ullrich to Everyone : Hello, everyone.
12:02:47 From Gopal Tadepalli to Everyone : Greetings. - Dr. T V Gopal, Professor, Department of Computer Science and Engineering, College of Engineering, Guindy Campus, Anna University , Chennai, INDIA.
12:03:00 From Heidi Ullrich to Everyone : Action items are are at: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/At-Large+Unaffiliated+Individuals+Working+Party+Action+Items
12:03:25 From Michelle DeSmyter to Everyone : Welcome Alan & Jonathan
12:03:39 From Michelle DeSmyter to Everyone : Welcome Bill
12:05:27 From Natalia Filina to Everyone : Hello all!
12:05:28 From Michelle DeSmyter to Everyone : Welcome Natalia & Justine
12:05:38 From Natalia Filina to Everyone : Thanks Michelle!
12:06:16 From Justine Chew to Everyone : Thanks Michelle, thought I might drop in today since I'm still awake.
12:06:24 From Michelle DeSmyter to Everyone : Wonderful! Welcome :)
12:06:56 From Michelle DeSmyter to Everyone : RALO Individual Member Application Process wiki page: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/RALO+Individual+Member+Application+Process
12:07:43 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone : Sorry I am late
12:07:45 From David Mackey to Everyone : Thank you for the links Heidi and Michelle :-)
12:07:45 From Michelle DeSmyter to Everyone : Welcome Judith & Abdulkarim
12:07:58 From Michelle DeSmyter to Everyone : You’re welcome David!
12:12:08 From Michelle DeSmyter to Everyone : Welcome Seun
12:12:25 From Sarah Kiden to Everyone : +1 Alan
12:12:38 From Seun Ojedeji to Everyone : Thanks Michelle
12:13:00 From David Mackey to Everyone : +1 Alan
12:13:09 From Roberto to Everyone : Agree
12:13:21 From Natalia Filina to Everyone : agree too
12:13:34 From Seun Ojedeji to Everyone : +1 on rationale for rejecting but i think that was mentioned already
12:13:58 From Patricia Akello to Everyone : hello everyone 
12:14:58 From Michelle DeSmyter to Everyone : Hello and welcome Patricia
12:15:00 From Bill Jouris to Everyone : Might it be possible for a rejection to be on the basis of something that wasn't in the currently documented requirements? But which falls into the "I never thought of that" category -- things that weren't included in the requirements list because it simply didn't occur to us that someone wouldn't meet it.
12:15:21 From Alan Greenberg to Everyone : Even if we didn't tell the applicant why, there needs to be a justification.
12:15:47 From Michelle DeSmyter to Everyone : Welcome Caleb
12:15:59 From Bill Jouris to Everyone : Certainly. And it should be documented. I'm just thinking we don't want to absolutely limit the possible justifications to those previously documente
12:16:03 From Bill Jouris to Everyone : d
12:16:34 From Michelle DeSmyter to Everyone : Welcome Hanan
12:16:46 From Gopal Tadepalli to Everyone : I think the reasons for rejection are enumerable. So, rejected due to one or more of these reasons is all that is needed. - Dr. T V Gopal
12:16:48 From Hanan Khatib to Everyone : thank you
12:17:07 From Natalia Filina to Everyone : I think refusal must always be a "pick from a list"
12:18:32 From Natalia Filina to Everyone : Since we are very loyal to new members, we will have little reason to refuse. And it will be a short simple list
12:20:48 From Nadira AL-ARAJ to Everyone : or ALS member
12:20:59 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone : I am not particularly supportive of a Reference however
12:21:36 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone : The "Jeff Williams"effect can be managed (if and when) it occurs I think
12:21:53 From Seun Ojedeji to Everyone : +1 Cheryl
12:22:23 From David Mackey to Everyone : Can someone give me a short description of the “Jeff Williams” effect? Thanks
12:22:35 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone : +1 Gopal
12:22:51 From Justine Chew to Everyone : I'm with Cheryl on this -- perhaps best to give RALO leadership discretion to request for supporting information to an application.
12:22:52 From Natalia Filina to Everyone : +1 David, me too
12:23:00 From Roberto to Everyone : @CLO - agree but we must have a hook in the procedure for being able to act if it happens
12:23:22 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone : @David a disruptive 'troll' that was a group of activist acting as 1 "voice"under a name
12:23:37 From David Mackey to Everyone : got it. Thanks CLO :-)
12:23:38 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone : Agree @Roberto
12:24:26 From David Mackey to Everyone : Unfortunately, trolls are part of the Internet that must be managed from time to time. :-)
12:25:16 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone : yup
12:25:45 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone : We had this issue in NARALO but finally that person left
12:26:03 From Roberto to Everyone : We do it inEURALO @Alan
12:26:15 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone : Three folks thus far in NARALO
12:26:37 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone : There was also one before your time Jonathan
12:27:14 From Alan Greenberg to Everyone : In recent years, we have had more problems with REAL people who simply didn't understand what business we were in and had private agendas.
12:27:29 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone : He left when we caught him accepting and taking a crop slot and then never showing up at that event
12:27:36 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone : Very true @Alan
12:27:45 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone : tis they way of things at times
12:29:07 From David Mackey to Everyone : I try to avoid the use the word “troll” because it implies intent. Sometimes we just stumble upon valid fundamental agreements. Either way, I think we’ve got the right coverage in our work for this situation.
12:29:13 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone : Transparency is the key intent in the text
12:29:27 From David Mackey to Everyone : +1 CLO
12:30:22 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone : unfortunately the JW effect referred to intent so the term did well apply @David ;-) but it is a rarity in the scheme of things
12:31:50 From David Mackey to Everyone : lol, sooooo many different human behaviours that have to be accounted for
12:33:11 From Sarah Kiden to Everyone : I think this is why the justification is important
12:33:18 From Nadira AL-ARAJ to Everyone : one winders if the applicants knows about the ombudsman
12:33:34 From Sarah Kiden to Everyone : That’s another thing, Nadira
12:33:36 From David Mackey to Everyone : +1 Nadira
12:33:39 From Seun Ojedeji to Everyone : I don't think we should put such caveat in a rejection notification
12:34:01 From Seun Ojedeji to Everyone : but yes the process can allow for an appeal
12:35:18 From Nadira AL-ARAJ to Everyone : request a justification
12:36:51 From Seun Ojedeji to Everyone : Hmm....i am not sure about it going to ALAC Chair i think it still need to go back to the leadership of the RALO for reconsideration
12:37:11 From Natalia Filina to Everyone : +1 Seun
12:37:17 From David Mackey to Everyone : I think including the ALAC chair in this part of the process is a fair option that can be part of an appropriate escalation process.
12:37:33 From Caleb Ogundele to Everyone : Do we have an appeal or review mechanism if it fails to go through via the RALO
12:38:10 From Alan Greenberg to Everyone : Reconsideration by RALO leadership is fine, but since it is RALO leadership that made the decision, it is not clear it is a good path.
12:38:26 From Abdulkarim Oloyede to Everyone : yes but the ombudsman should be the last resort
12:39:06 From Roberto to Everyone : @Alan - it can solve the cases where there was a misunderstanding, not when there is substantial difference of opinions
12:39:10 From David Mackey to Everyone : escalation? -> RALO, then ALAC Chair, then Ombudsman
12:39:16 From Caleb Ogundele to Everyone : RALO leaderships are not bound by ombudsman recommendations...
12:39:55 From Roberto to Everyone : @David - it’s what I thought
12:39:57 From Natalia Filina to Everyone : the ladder of escalation +1 David
12:40:13 From Abdulkarim Oloyede to Everyone : RALO - ALAC- ombudsman
12:40:17 From Caleb Ogundele to Everyone : However, I I support the route RALO---ALAC chair
12:40:18 From Alan Greenberg to Everyone : @Caleb, no one is BOUND by Ombudsman recommendation, but there are serious implications in not following them.
12:40:29 From Roberto to Everyone : The question is whether we should write it in the report as recommendation
12:40:34 From Silvia Vivanco to Everyone : You could add a broad statement such as : ICANN processes for dispute resolution and complaints are available to rejected applications.
12:40:36 From Alan Greenberg to Everyone : nOT A PLACE WE WANT TO GO...
12:41:07 From Seun Ojedeji to Everyone : Yes there can be a more stringent requirement from the RALO leadership on the second round but i think it should end at that point. I think think we should put in a process formerly beyond that but of course the applicant may use any other means he/she might want such as obunsman and such would then come back to the leadership who would ave to justify their reasons for rejecting
12:41:35 From Natalia Filina to Everyone : Good point from @Silvia
12:41:45 From Seun Ojedeji to Everyone : Yes there can be a more stringent requirement from the RALO leadership on the second round but i think it should end at that point. I DON'T think we should put in a process formerly beyond that but of course the applicant may use any other means he/she might want such as obunsman and such would then come back to the leadership who would ave to justify their reasons for rejecting
12:44:31 From David Mackey to Everyone : we may be overstepping our bounds with the word “termination” :-)
12:44:48 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone : withdrawal can still work IMO Yes @Roberto
12:45:14 From Justine Chew to Everyone : Or "revoking"
12:46:03 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone : withdrawal seems voluntary while revoking is more harsh
12:47:28 From Justine Chew to Everyone : depends on who is taking the action
12:48:40 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone : revoke to me indicates it is an official cancellation of something... it is the official aspect that I think important here
12:49:43 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone : we could find a synonym to usse
12:51:02 From Caleb Ogundele to Everyone : Are FAQs available for reasons applications are rejected in other RALOs
12:54:12 From Nadira AL-ARAJ to Everyone : yes
12:54:24 From Esther Patricia Akello to Everyone : yes
12:55:26 From Nadira AL-ARAJ to Everyone : we need to define voting on what?
12:56:09 From Nadira AL-ARAJ to Everyone : because they can vote on LT election or voting on RALO ICANN issues
12:57:29 From Nadira AL-ARAJ to Everyone : so we need to clarify the ‘voting’ for applicants
12:57:43 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone : @roberto that is exactly the way we do it in naralo
13:00:30 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr to Everyone : Good progress today... Thanks everyone!!! Bye for now I'm now tuning away from ICANN as best as I can... to *Australia Day* 'Sunrise - Reflect and Respect' ceremony telecast started at top of the hour.
13:00:52 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone : Happy australia day
13:01:17 From David Mackey to Everyone : Happy Australia Day!
13:01:37 From Nadira AL-ARAJ to Everyone : Thank you Roberto and all
13:01:47 From Heidi Ullrich to Everyone : This AI will be given to Clauid
13:01:57 From Alan Greenberg to Everyone : Experience = SCARS!
13:01:59 From David Mackey to Everyone : Bye All, thanks Roberto :-)
13:02:04 From Seun Ojedeji to Everyone : thanks bye
13:02:12 From Esther Patricia Akello to Everyone : thanks Roberto and Happy Australia Day
13:02:12 From Hanan Khatib to Everyone : Thank all
13:02:14 From Natalia Filina to Everyone : thanks Roberto, all! take care! bye!
13:02:19 From Silvia Vivanco to Everyone : Thank you all
13:02:22 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone : thanks
13:02:26 From Sarah Kiden to Everyone : Thank you