Summary Minutes and Action Items
MADT
02 October 2012 at 2030 UTC
1. Roll Call and Apologies - Staff gave the roll call.
2. Introduction -RoP Template and Sandbox
3. Meetings issues (meeting chair / group - 70 minutes)
Review of Previous Meetings with continuing discussion
AG: We talked that notice would need to be given for meetings - three weeks rather than two weeks. We decided that it has to be a push style.
CLO: As long as the telephonic serves various services including messaging systems and telephony.
AG: I think email is generic enough.
CLO: If you use terms, make sure you have a writer who understands the community. Give yourself an out.
AG: The written ones I'm well aware of. I wouldn't want to make it too general. I don't want to find out that you are only notifying people by Facebook. Ok, I will try to pen good words. The group can speak up if they don't agree.
The next issue is talking about minutes and notes. We'd said that the notes should be there at least before the posting of the agenda. Or minimum of one month.
CLO: Rather than one month, I'd suggest saying 30 days.
AG: Done.
AG: Under Regular Meetings, for face to face, the ALAC Chair can temporarily halt a meeting and re-convene when their is quorum.
General agreement on text.
AG: Proxies and Replacements -
CLO: Important for matters where Conflict as well
AG: Reviewed various text concerning proxies. During the last meeting, we didn't finish. It was discussed that there should be a caveat on electronic mail. These words should suffice.
OCL - Re proxies and directed vote. Would the direction be made public (as opposed to un-directed vote)/
AG: Interesting question. Should we let everyone know or just the proxy holder?
CLO: It depends on the rules or the rules you are under. If it was for or against a motion, it would be public. If it was for an election, then not made public. Gave examples. It can be left silent if that is the way your meeting management is. However, if the vote has names associated which is the current ALAC norm, then I would suggest that you note how you are voting and whose proxy you are using for that specific vote.
AG: When I give you a proxy and it is directed, I believe OCL is asking that at that time, the proxy giver make it public how they are instructing their proxy to vote.
OCL: I am asking in terms of a secret balance. Staff are the ones that count the secret ballot.
AG: I understand that if I hold a proxy, I will get the info needed to vote for her. I don't think we need to worry about the mechanism.
CLO: The returning officer has a role. They have to be trusted to count the votes. I've seen a vote where the vote came down to one vote. The proxy form includes info on who you are giving the vote to and how you vote. People are able to check. In our case, we don't have those rules. You would be able to give it to the Ombudsman.
AG: BP keeps the records of the secret ballot if needed.
OCL: Let me rephrase my question. CLO gives me her proxy. I vote for Alan. What assurance does CLO have?
CLO: If I give you an undirected vote, my vote can't be recalled.
TBJ: Two points. 1) If I have two proxies, CLO said. I don't think it is possible to have more than one proxy.
AG: We discussed this at the last meeting at great length. We agreed ALAC members can hold up to two proxies.
AG: Whether directed votes are auditable, I'd prefer the rules to be silent on that.
CS: The trust relationship ends once a person gives another his/her proxy.
Formal ALAC Actions
Procedural Motions (current rule 18)
AG: Discussed. No disagreement
Motions (current rule 15/19)
AG: Noted that Rule 15/19 are very similarly. ALAC has used motions/resolutions are used interchangeably.
CLO: It would have been better to refer to Robert's Rules of Procedure here. Need clear language. Explained that a motion is before the vote and the resolution is that when it has passed.
AG: The problem exists in different fora - gave ex of bill and then law. We will try to
Amendments (current rule 20)
AG: Discussed Rule 20 on amendments and that of friendly amendments. I don't think the revision will be complex.
CLO: I don't think we want line by line discussion on this. However, perhaps this is where we could point to Robert's rules of procedure. Discussed friendly vs contested motions.
AG: The goal is not to have to refer to Robert's Rules for the main text of the ROPs.
Points of Order (current rule 17)
AG: I don't think this text doesn't need too much addition. Needs to be simple.
CLO: The current text is ok with some minor polishing. Clean and simple.
AG: Will refer to Rules of the Chair later today.
Voting Thresholds (current rule various and 23/24)
AG: It is mentioned in a variety of places. I am happy to keep 23 and 24 as they are. It takes a 2/3 to change but a simple majority to adopt them the first time. 24 stands.
Agreement.
Impact of Abstention (current rule 15/19)
AG: Noted that the language in Rules 15 and 19 on this is the same. Currently, abstentions don't count as a no. but a vote can be carried by a small number of ALAC members. Do we want the number to change if there are fewer people in the meeting? There is the other side of abstention of that they should not count as no's, you are making a decision with a small amount of ALAC members influencing the vote.
CLO: I am comfortable with 5. If it goes down to some percentage in the room, then 2 or 3 people could carry the vote. Also, if it is less then full regional representation, I get nervous.
Carry-over votes
Electronic votes
AG: The 5 voters might be from 2 regions.
CLO: We may need to specify that the 5 Regions are represented
AG: How people decide to vote should not invalidate the vote.
OCL: Raise a flag when abstaining, any region can kill a vote, having 3 people abstain.
If we have that rule today, one region could stop the ROP from being adopted. This would be a veto.
Evan: Recently something like this happened in the Red Cross issue. There has to be a way to avoid this, if something is contentious, then we take it to an online vote.
AG: We already covered that, and we have already addressed it. I would like to see something that says 3 of 5 regions.
Current rules should say if you abstain, then you should say why.
Secret votes: Different and we need to make sure that rules cover that.
AG: There is a requirement on abstention on why you abstain.
OCL: Want to make sure that this is a requirement.
CLO: The requirement will be that the question will be asked if they want the reason recorded, so that they have the option.
AG: I disagree, if you abstain you must say the reason why you abstained.
CS: Current rules: You may be required to give a reason.
You cannot call an abstention a reason for non-participation.
CLO: I may wish not to have recorded the reason for my abstention in the public record.
General consensus: We will give the option to people to record why they abstain.
AG; Would you agree to say that we "strogly" recommend that people will explain why they abstained.
OCL: We have a consensus on making mandatory for someone to ask that person who abstained why but to have the option not to have it recorded.
Carry over votes ; We have leave it very felxible.
Various methods of voting will be allowed.
CLO: Formal actions: Introduce the concept of the chair of the meeting in the setting of the agenda is consent agenda.
AG: I will draft something reasonable.
Precedence of Rules
By laws
ROP
Decisions of the ALAC,
Rules of the Chair
AG: Precedent, something that we have always done in a way.
Barring anything else, the Chair can make a rule.
Do we want an appeal of the Chair decision?
Eduardo: It depends, if the Chair makes a ruling, can you appeal to it?
AG: Implicitly there is always a way to rethink what happened.
AG: Advance notice for motions
Some groups have procedures in place that you cannot make substantive motions. Sometimes they have even applied that to purely administrative issues. My personal feeling is to be silent on it. Under what conditions can an ALAC member defer a vote?
CLO: I agree that if you have good rules for reconsideration, which is commonly used in local governments. And the decisions is on hold until reconsideration is made.
AG: The drafting will start pretty soon. I will be sending an email so we do not have to redocument line by line.
