Gisella Gruber-White:Welcome to the MADT call on Tuesday 02 October 2012 at 2030 UTC
Gisella Gruber-White:Agenda: https://community.icann.org/x/vI8oAg
Alan Greenberg:Hi Tijani
Maureen Hilyard:HI everyone
Maureen Hilyard:LOL
Silvia Vivanco:Hello everyone
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:Now we do
Heidi Ullrich:4 Sept meeting: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/At-Large+Rules+of+Procedure+Process%3A+Meetings+and+Administration+Sandbox#comment-36209706
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:the term 'electonic or digital communication modalities' is one I have used at times reecently
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:Page 21
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Important for matters where Conflict as well
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:What's a "normal ALAC member"?
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Not a chair or other ALT Member
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:ah
Gisella Gruber-White:Evan has joined the call
Evan Leibovitch:I'm not normally a part of this group ... just lurking
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Lurk away
Maureen Hilyard:Perhaps whoever holds a proxy vote should declare how the proxy vote has been presented for the vote.
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:in secret ballot votes this would break the secret
Maureen Hilyard:but we are discouraging secret ballots
Maureen Hilyard:except for personnel issues
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:when voting about people it's secret ballot
Evan Leibovitch:So those participating in the "direction" would have to trust the proxy since the actual tally is secret
Evan Leibovitch:(so much for just lurking... :-P )
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:The other things about Proxies is that they are NORMALLY open to be viewed for future record or tabled....
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:Indeed
Maureen Hilyard:agreed
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:the review is often only aqvailable after the vote is concluded
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:the trust in the
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Returning Officer is essential here
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:as long as it canbe ratified
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:there is no accountability for the proxy holder to vote as directed bu the person that gave them a directed proxy
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:I suggestion was that in cases that directed proxies are given, it would be the duty of staff to check that directed proxies are indeed carried out by the proxy holder.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:I'm in some groups where people (other than the Chair) can hold dozens of proxies... but we discussed and decided a limitation ... Tijani I was giving an example
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:Are proxies really needed for online votes?
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:Or is this proxy discussion solely limited to F2F or "live" meetings?
Evan Leibovitch:@Dev: good point. An online vote doesn't require being in a specific place at a specific time. Given a long enough voting period proxies should be neither needed nor allowed IMO
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:depends Dev in some way people have been able to direct staff to act in the Big Pulse system so that is a defacto Proxy BUT technically it is still a Proxy
Evan Leibovitch:@Cheryl, those are proxies for technical reasons (ie, no net access). One would hope that as time passes, voters won't need staff to cast votes on their behalf.
Heidi Ullrich:Everyone should be able to scroll this document
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:but we in new rules would allow say at the end of a meeting in country x a vote being held in Big Pulse for example that runs for 3 days I might be trecking and well off communications foe next 6 days the vote opens after I leave if needs be rather than NOT vote OR use Staff to add it I couod direct Z(or give non directec Proxy to another ALAC Member or the Chair @Evan
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:it is contingency
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:all good Alan
Evan Leibovitch:I can even scroll it right to left :-P
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:So you PUT a Motion and when passed it is Resolved OR it is Resolved to NOT support the Motion
Evan Leibovitch:The difference between Bill and Law is not far different from the diff between Draft and Final
Evan Leibovitch:The construct of "friendly amendment" comes right from RROO
Evan Leibovitch:http://www.robertsrules.com/faq.html#8
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:As long as we don't rebuild a monster *again*
Evan Leibovitch:+1 for monster mitigation
Maureen Hilyard:Shrinkage ....Definitely !
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:Aren't 17.1 / 17.2 cut/pastes fro mRobert's?
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Yup pretty well
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:or Cross reference to it
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Point of Order is an INTERUPT ability
Maureen Hilyard:cross referencing is easy for the online version.. which we have also been talking about..
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:and also interupts a stict speaking order OR Order of Business in an advertised Agenda
Evan Leibovitch:That is EXACTLY what happened with the Red Cross/IOC vote. It carried by a vote of 4-2-2
Maureen Hilyard:and regional representation being maintained
Evan Leibovitch:Which is less than one-third of ALAC in favour.
Maureen Hilyard:what if abstentions are greater than the yes votes?
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:That is actually possible Maureen and may be why we need a listed minimum number and Regional Diversity rule to be in
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:must avoid veto yup
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:a Majority of Regional should bbe able to support a successful motion beoimg resolved
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:that is why the MAY ALAC Votes is usually attached TO a Statement @Evan so the degree of support can also be seen
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:yes the time sensativity rule has to come into play here
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:it means a MJORITY of Regions must support
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:@ Evvan it has to be at least 3 for it to be a Majority
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:the NEW Rule works better @Evan
Gisella Gruber-White:Yaovi has joined the AC room
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:yes the new Rules say you have to say why OR state to the record you do NOT wish to say
Evan Leibovitch:OK
Maureen Hilyard:was it a metrics issue?
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:yes an option, I believe. So far, it has been an option.
Gisella Gruber-White:Yaovi is on the phone bridge
Yaovi Atohoun:Hello. Sorry for being late. I had some power issues
Yrjö Länsipuro:Option, not a requirement
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:The way it runs at the moment is to proactively ask for it. I agreee that this should be formalised in the RoPs
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:and the reply can be "I don't want to record a reason for my abstention"
Evan Leibovitch:I think the big issue is that 'abstain' is used politically to oppose a motion, "sort of"
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:@ Alan if you have a personal Conflict then you should NOT be in the room
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:@Evan: in some cases, it is.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:@Cheryl with online votes, all ALAC members "are in the room"
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:but to record that as a reason would be usually put forward but IF I do not
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:agree with Olivier : the reply can be "I don't want to record a reason for my abstention"
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:it should be mandadted to ask for a reeason to be recorded but OK to request that my reason is NOT recorded
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:EXACTLY Dev
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:yes Edwardo the Garbage would be the reason listed for the obstention
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:@OCL yes at the moment it is a curtesy and at the decretion of the Chair it should be mandated
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:yes ok with Cheryl.
Maureen Hilyard:I like it
Evan Leibovitch:The devil's in the details. Making a consent agenda pre-supposes that a set of issues will be non-controversial and can be grouped for a single vote.
Evan Leibovitch:The Board does this for receipt of documents but not decisions. ALAC has very few of such "vote to receive" motions.
Evan Leibovitch:I suspect that there will be very few items for consent agendas, and a lot of work for the Chair and staff to create it. Not sure if it's worth the work.
Evan Leibovitch:"Robert's Rules of Inertia"
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:agree, Evan...it sounds like a lot of work for Staff and Chair to create a consent agenda.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:There should be less time at meetings though and kinda tough but theree you go that is the job for the Agenda orgaisers @Evan
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:and it is an OPtion for a Consent Agenda
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:often cslled a ZReconsideration
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:no Z Reconsideration rule
Maureen Hilyard:Im heading that way too Cheryl.. less said the better?
eduardo diaz:If we want the ROP simple then silent.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:yup it is SCARY
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:I'm OK with silent for now but being forewarned we MIIGHT need ti deal with it in the future
Maureen Hilyard:Less is more...
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:yup
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:but it IS why all Chairs MUST have a good working knowledge of RROP
Evan Leibovitch:woof
Heidi Ullrich:Bye, All!
Silvia Vivanco:Bye all
Yrjö Länsipuro:Bye
Heidi Ullrich:Efficient call, as always.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:BYE
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