Nathalie Peregrine:                  On the call for the moment we have Charles Mok, José Arce, Rudi Vansnick, Dave Kissoondoyal, Gareth Sherman, from staff we have Heidi Ulrich and Gisella Gruber and myself Nathalie Peregrine.

Janice Douma Lange:              I'm here.

Juan Ojeda:                             I am here too.

Aba Diakite:                            This is Aba from ICANN Financing.

Nathalie Peregrine:                  So that’s Janice, Juan and Aba from ICANN Finance.

Heidi Ulrich:                           Hi Janice this is Heidi, welcome thank you for joining.  Hi Aba.

Janice Douma Lange:              Hi Heidi, good morning.

Heidi Ulrich:                           Hi, good morning.  Do we also have Juan did you say on the call already?

Juan Ojeda:                             Yes, hi Heidi good morning.

Heidi Ulrich:                           Good morning Juan.  I don’t see any of you in the Adobe Connect so I'm glad that you're here with us on the Adigo bridge.   

Juan Ojeda:                             On my computer my Mac is rebuilding my database utility so I cannot answer the email with the link to the Adobe Connect. 

Heidi Ulrich:                           Okay can you get on Jabber; I will Jabber it to you.

Juan Ojeda:                             Okay perfect, thank you.

Janice Douma Lange:              Did you get the notice that Xavier will only be able to join on the second half?

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Yes, I did, thank you. 

Janice Douma Lange:              Hi Olivier.

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         The way I think we will probably do this then is to let Juan perhaps take us through the new template or - as people are joining.  The way I was going to suggest that we move forward is to let Juan take us through the template. 

Janice Douma Lange:              Okay I think he is struggling to get some connectivity. 

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Well we will have to get someone to take us through the template. 

Janice Douma Lange:              I'm sure.  Xavier is very well versed in the template and both he and I can take that until Juan can get connected.

Heidi Ulrich:                           Matt is going to put the template up on the screen in the Adobe Connect.

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Super, perfect.

Darlene Thompson:                When I clicked on “How can I participate in this meeting”, it tried taking me to a document that my computer was unable to read.  I don’t know if anyone else had that problem. 

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Darlene I thought that link took you to the listing of dial in numbers.

Darlene Thompson:                Yes for some reason it didn’t work for me.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Very well.

Gareth Sherman:                     It's a standard dial in number with 3535 as the code number. 

Darlene Thompson:                I figured that out now.  I'm here. 

Gareth Sherman:                     It's the Adobe Connect you want, right, my mistake.  I guess it's too early in the morning. 

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         This is interesting the how can I participate in this teleconference sends you to 1638, but of course before it says “Please use pass code 3535.”  But I gather by all of you being there you’ve read the instructions.  Maybe we can start, we are 10 minutes past the hour and we have calls for - or some of us have a call right after this call.  It's a busy day today. 

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Could I ask are we able to put up a view of the modified template?

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         I understand that Matt is working on this at the moment, Matt?

Matt Ashtiani:                                    It will be up momentarily.

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Is it your fruit-based machine that is acting up again?

Matt Ashtiani:                                    Yeah it's a little bit of waking up at 5am [inaudible 00:04:57]. 

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Juan's fruit based machine also acts up, goodness.

Juan Ojeda:                             Really doesn’t make a strong case for that does it?

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         What was wrong with using a note pad - not an iPad, I said an actual paper note pad.

Juan Ojeda:                             Touché.

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         And a pencil.

Juan Ojeda:                             What are those?

Gareth Sherman:                     We are talking historical artifacts here. 

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Very much so.

Janice Douma Lange:              Were you guys able to get the request form up just on your computer?

Juan Ojeda:                             My version I have it on outlook and unfortunately I can't open it so I can't even ask someone to email it to me.  I don’t know, if you can send me a Jabber or I'm waiting for the upload.

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Can you turn on Adobe Connect?

Heidi Ulrich:                           Juan this is Heidi, I've sent you our work space that has the templates on it.

Juan Ojeda:                             Okay perfect.

Heidi Ulrich:                           And I will do that for everyone else until Matt is able to get the templates up on the screen.

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Okay I think that we can move on.  Heidi has put the At-Large Budget Requests work space, and on there you will find links to several locations.  Wow, someone is really hammering at their keyboard. 

Juan Ojeda:                             I can tell you that’s not a prune based computer.

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         No.  Okay right. 

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              I'm glad we sorted out all the computer issues. 

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Enough silliness let's get going ladies and gentlemen.  Thank you very much for all attending.  Today is Monday, January 9, 2012, this is the Finance and Budget Subcommittee Working Group conference call.  And it already is 13 minutes past 1600 UTC.  We have a number of guests from ICANN Finance who are here to talk to us, the Finance and Budget Subcommittee about the whole new process this year for applying for budget funds. 

First we will start with a quick roll call and then what we will do is to let Juan who can take us - or well, whoever manages to get their machine to work who can take us through the templates, the new template and then afterwards we will have question and answers.  First, roll call please?

Nathalie Peregrine:                  Thank you, hello everyone and welcome to today's FBSC Working Group meeting talking about the FY’13 budget.  On the call today we have Cheryl Langdon-Orr, Charles Mok, José Arce, Rudi Vansnick, Dave Kissoondoyal, Olivier Crepin-LeBlond, Gareth Sherman, Alan Greenberg, Darlene Thompson, Rinalia Abdul Rahim and Dev Anand Teelucksingh.  We have guest speakers Xavier Calvez arriving shortly and on at the moment Juan Ojeda, Janice Lange and Aba Diakite.  We have apologies from Nathalie Enciso and Tijani Ben Jemaa.  From staff we have Heidi Ulrich, Silvia Vivanco, Matt Ashtiani, Gisella Gruber and myself Nathalie Peregrine.  I would like to remind you all to please state your names before speaking for transcription purposes, thank you very much and over to you.

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Thank you very much Nathalie, have we missed anyone actually here? 

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Did I see Charles Mok’s name listed?

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Charles has been mentioned yes.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Thanks.

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         And Charles is here.  Well welcome to all of you and I'm very glad to see a full call with people representing all of the regions of At-Large.  And so without any further delay now that I see that the template is up on our confluence page, we can then ask, is it Juan who will take us through the whole list, the request form or -

Juan Ojeda:                             Sure, yes.

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Okay so Juan you have the floor.

Juan Ojeda:                             Thank you Mr. Olivier and thank you members of the ALAC and the other members of finance for joining us on this call.  This form which is slightly revised or somewhat updated for FY’13 is again intended to capture as much information as possible for all the community requests from the stakeholder organizations and advisory NACs. 

For requests for projects for inclusion into the FY’13 budget, the top section the request information that’s pretty generic, we will give it a title so that when we have [inaudible 00:10:21] phone calls we know exactly what project we’re speaking about -- the name of the community requestor, the name of the person who is making the request, the chair of the respective SO and AC, as well as the name of the respective staff liaison, the same thing for description.  

What type of activity is it engaging in?  Is it outreach, training, travel support, research and study and so on and so forth?  The proposed time line, this came as a result of some input from last year’s request template in terms of it's a recurring activity do we indicate that as such or if it's a one time, this is the space to do so under the request description section.  Under the request objectives, this is probably one of the more important areas, first the specific request which item in the strategic plan, which area does this - is this in support of? 

The demographics, what audience and what geographical areas does this project intend to target?   What are the deliverables, just from a measurable perspective to ensure that this project has been completed to fruition?  And last but not least the metrics, what measurements can we use to determine how successful this project was.  What [inaudible 00:11:44] the implementation should this specific project be approved? 

The resource planning is a little bit more of a build up from what we had in last fiscal year, in terms of staff support needed, in terms of equivalent head counts, how long and what type of FTE (Full Time Equivalent) do we need in terms of which area, if it's finance, if it's policy, if it's compliance and what have you.  And for fiscal year budgeting purposes, for planning purposes, we’re also this time asking for some time line in terms of when these resources are expected to be incurred. 

We are looking at it from a quarterly basis to hopefully meet somewhere in the middle, not ask for too granular activity at this stage of the game in terms of month by month.  But also to be able to give finance some ability, some tools to be able to plan the budget accordingly.  And these resources are broken out between staff support, between subject matter expert, technology support.  If for example, if there are additional phone calls that will be required, this will be the place to make this request on. 

Language services support, again, this is very important because this information, should this project get ultimately approved and adopted into the operating plan and budget will need to be disseminated down to the appropriate personnel who actually provide these support services or coordinate them I should say.  Other, which hopefully be not too extensive as hopefully we can capture those expenses in another area, in travel support as well as any potential planned sponsorship contribution that would be required. 

We’re asking for - if you look at this template on the surface, we’re asking for little bit more information from what we did last year on the initial submission requests template and that was a direct result for those projects that actually were approved to be adopted into the budget.  We had to go back to the SOs and ACs to ask for this additional information to ensure that these items were correctly included in the budget in terms of timing, in terms of allocation to different departments. 

In order to streamline the process, we are asking for this information upfront, with the caveat that should these projects actually be included we may have to go back and just ask for some more specific information again just to ensure the proper accountability and inclusion into the budget.  These changes were all made in an effort to facilitate the process, to streamline it and to be able to provide more information during the prioritization process for these requests. 

On that note Olivier I will return the floor back to you and see if you have any detailed questions on the template, you or any member of your team.

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Thank you very much Juan, interesting information there.  I see that someone has resized the windows and so I cannot see Darlene's hand.  I can see that she has raised her hand but I cannot see the actual hands on my screen, but Darlene you have the floor.

Darlene Thompson:                Yes, I have a question where you're breaking down staff support, technology support, language services support, we have no idea how much that kind of stuff costs, so how are we supposed to but a cost estimate for those line items, thank you.

Juan Ojeda:                             Thank you Darlene, good question.  As indicated there you can put either or cost or quantity for that specific reason.  And the reason we needed to be flexible is because oftentimes there are specific requests for items that pertain to another country, per se.  Sometimes the actual members of the SOs and ACs will have better costing information than the finance staff does. 

In those cases we would ask that the requesting organization make that cost estimate.  But as you alluded to if you don’t know the cost but you know the quantity, then at that point you can certainly input the quantity and we have that information that we can go ahead and cost quantify. 

Darlene Thompson:                Great, thank you.

Juan Ojeda:                             You're welcome. 

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Thank you next question is from Alan Greenberg.

Alan Greenberg:                      Very much related to that one, to the extent possible it would be really nice to have cheat sheets to understand what a lot of these things generally cost.  That does two things, it tells us whether our request is at all reasonable and sane and also gives us an idea of the commit more, ask you for in a given task.  So to the extent that ICANN can give us rules of thumb for what does translation, what does simultaneous interpretation cost?  What does translation cost per page? 

Or any of these kinds of things like that.  The same for what are your norms for travel support, those I think we've seen in the past.  I don’t know what the current ones are.  That would be really useful in both enabling us to give you detailed requests and allowing us to do sanity checks to make sure what we’re asking for is reasonable, thank you.

Juan Ojeda:                             Thank you Alan that’s an excellent point.  It's something that I will take back to the rest of the finance team and see what, if anything, we can come up with.  The challenge will be that there are certain things that may necessarily be constant on a case by case basis.  For example, I can maybe envision translation being something that’s pretty consistent across the board.  But travel support obviously will vary and change region by region, even different times of the year.

I think that would be a little bit tough.   Or be able to give a ‘rule of thumb’ kind of one size fits all price but let me see what we can do.  We will definitely take that under advisement and being that the deadline is coming up really shortly we will circle back quickly on that one.  So thank you Alan.

Alan Greenberg:                      Olivier can I have a quick follow up?

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Yes, sure Alan, please.

Alan Greenberg:                      Thank you Juan.  One of the points I was making is for things like travel support and that’s a good example, yes it does vary heavily based on region and number of -all sorts of things.  but in the past ICANN has used standardized numbers for that, in some cases which didn’t apply and it's useful to know what numbers you're going to use because we may be able to come in and say “Yes, but in this particular place, average travel support is going to be $500 not $2,000.”  Again, knowing what the norms are that you are using, to the extent that it's possible, will help us do rational things.       

Juan Ojeda:                             No, no absolutely I just brining it as a point of in terms of accuracy but no absolutely, you're -

Alan Greenberg:                      Sometimes we will know that your norms don’t apply in our case and giving us an opportunity to say so is important.

Juan Ojeda:                             Okay thank you Alan.

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Thank you Alan, thank you Juan.  Also on the subject of travel support we are lucky to have someone who used to be in travel support and that is Matt Ashtiani.  He usually is of great help to us in being able to turn around a quick estimate regarding travel.  We've certainly seen that with the preparation for the Dakar travel budget for the Dakar events.  We have next Rinalia and then Darlene -- Rinalia Abdul Rahim first.

Rinalia Abdul Rahim:              Thank you, Juan I have a question about the last item which is potential planned sponsorship contribution, can you just clarify that?  Is that externally sourced contribution?  And if yes, what is the implication of putting it into this budget request?

Juan Ojeda:                             That item and I believe and Janice correct me if I am wrong, I think that’s any sponsorship that would be made originating from the SO and AC to another third party.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Sorry?

Rinalia Abdul Rahim:              That didn’t clarify.

Juan Ojeda:                             I think Aba is going to -

Aba Diakite:                            Yes, that is correct.  That is in case there is [inaudible 00:20:44].

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              I can't hear.

Juan Ojeda:                             Aba did you get cut off?

Aba Diakite:                            [Inaudible 00:20:51] organization.  [Inaudible 00:20:52].

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         I think we are not getting Aba very well at the moment, can't hear anything.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              He must be on a Skype call. 

Juan Ojeda:                             When he gets better reception I will let him expand on it, but that’s a cost that’s - if ALAC as part of their study or their participation in a particular research program or what have you, requires a cash contribution or any kind of planned contribution to whoever is holding the event per se, that would fall under this section.

Janice Douma Lange:              And Juan this is Janice, I think I've had such a case with the Fellowship Program such as [inaudible 00:21:31] he came forward and said as a sponsor they were going to put a certain amount of money towards getting additional participants from the Asia region to the meeting.  And we had to work it through the meeting team and sponsorship guideline in order to work that.  But it's the same principle of it.  If you have something on the outside you just need to document how that money will apply towards that request.  But again, I would leave to Aba from a financial standpoint to clarify when he can come back online.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Especially since you just said two different things.

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Thank you Janice.  I think we will have to wait for Aba because the -

Aba Diakite:                            I'm back online.

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         The questions here - oh Aba you're back online.  Okay let's see if we can hear you better.

Aba Diakite:                            Yes the point that I was making is sometimes we have some of those requests to sponsor events or some of activity in a different part of the region and that item is to cover that type of request. 

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         So this would be a contribution, a cash contribution to an external event that is not an ICANN event that would require sponsorship from ICANN, is this correct?

Aba Diakite:                            That is correct.  It can be cash, it can also be in kind, those are usually [inaudible 00:23:10].

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         We are losing you again.

Aba Diakite:                            Okay sorry let me see, hello?

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Yes, welcome back.

Aba Diakite:                            If there is an event and you [inaudible 00:23:28] volunteers to sponsorship to provide for example interpretation during the meeting that would be a type of sponsorship contribution.

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         I think we've lost Aba again.

Alan Greenberg:                      Clarification, Olivier you said a non ICANN event; I thought we were talking about ICANN events here.

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Well this is where - I think there is some confusion here.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Not necessarily.  Darlene has her hand up.

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Okay well I can see there are still people with their hands up so we will move on and then we will have to come back to this when Aba comes back to us.  Now Darlene?

Darlene Thompson:                I just want to highlight something that Alan was saying earlier for previous regional events, $25,000 was allocated but it was allocated in six travel spots.  If you look at the way the NARALO is set up, a lot of our ALSs are very close to Toronto and some have expressed a willingness to drive or take a bus or a train to the event which would drastically reduce each ALS’s travel costs.  What I'm hoping that we will be able to do is ask for $25,000 and make that stretch as far as possible.  Do you think that that type of idea is something perhaps they would look at?

Juan Ojeda:                             It depends on how the request is actually constructed or formulated.  If it's a - in that scenario I would suggest or I would think that the request would along the lines of $25,000 for X amount of travel or so stretched out from $6,000 to whatever that might be $10,000 or $15,000.  Whereas if it's more quantity where to provide six members of the RALO to be able to attend a particular meeting then formulate it that way, but based on what you're saying I would formulate it from a monetary perspective first and then see how you can stretch that out to fit X amount of travelers. 

Darlene Thompson:                Excellent thank you.

Juan Ojeda:                             Sure.

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Thank you very much and so next is Cheryl Langdon-Orr.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Thank you and I'm hoping that Aba has a decent line again.  I thought I understood what was going on until Janice indicated almost the opposite of what Aba was saying.  But now I'm clear that the potential whatever sponsorship contribution would be the place for example that APRALO’s previous requests although Juan you wouldn’t be aware of these because they were in the days before you, these were when we were being refused regularly between 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, not 2010 and 2011. 

It's important to know which years our requests are rejected in.  And these are ‘pre-you and your team.’  We wanted to sponsor, which would involve doing a talk and outreach but to do that you did it in a sponsor form for something called AP Stop which is a use form and Charles will talk if he wants to in greater detail.  I take it that we are correct in putting that request in that space. 

If that is the case and I think that we've got it right, might I suggest that we do a little bit more explanation about what that means because when I first read that I raised my hand to say “When in other years we have suggested to ICANN Financial Control, that we could as a region or an ALS bring in some cash as opposed to in kind contributions to projects, we were told no.”  That muddies the water and gets very messy. 

I'm pleased to hear Janice was just indicted fellowship has already broken down that barrier.  But if that is the case and we don’t put it in that block, where do we put those sorts of things for in kind and real contributions, thank you.

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Thank you very much Cheryl.  Juan yes sorry there was silence so I jumped in.  Juan please answer.

Juan Ojeda:                             You're right Miss Cheryl and I do like that historical context, if you will, of those requests.  To my understanding that from a fairly level perspective this means any kind of actual cash payment that would be required.  For example, as Aba had alluded to if there is a meeting or a conference that maybe for example, and again I'm just speculating here, that's free of attendance, however, in lieu of any kind of payment like that there is an in kind or cash contribution to be made to the event holder, then in attendance to that particular event or conference is a requirement and completion of the overall project that’s being requested, then that cash requirement, that resource would be indicated in that space.  Again, I certainly like -

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              So it's incoming and outgoing?

Juan Ojeda:                             Outgoing, this is outgoing. 

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         I think that Cheryl didn’t hear some of what was said and she will check it from the transcript and perhaps we can follow-up with you Juan afterwards by email.  Next is Alan Greenberg.

Alan Greenberg:                      Yes, now I'm confused.  What I heard earlier is this one - the question is is this expenses or expenses and revenue?   Because what I heard initially is this could be an item saying we know we’re going to get money in from someone else to partially subsidize part of the cost and what I just heard Juan say this is expenses where we have to pay someone else, that the cash will go to some other organization.  Is it both or is it one of them?

Juan Ojeda:                             Miss Janice can you correct if I'm wrong but I thought this was just expense or is this meant to capture both ins and outflows?

Aba Diakite:                            This is expense only.  So in the template it’s just to capture the expense side.  Cash contribution coming in to support the organization it's not a consideration in this template. 

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Okay that’s clear.

Alan Greenberg:                      Presumably we have to say somewhere there is it, so you don’t try to add that cost and saying we forgot it?

Rinalia Abdul Rahim:              It would be nice if it's clarified to say that’s it outflow or an expense on the template itself.   

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Thank you Rinalia, thank you everyone, I will thank Juan and Aba as well to make this a little less confusing on this one.  I actually had a question on the template and that was to do with the first page and I don’t know who is twiddling the template at the moment but it's moving up and down and I know that some people with slower internet connections are probably not enjoying this at all.  Request objectives metrics, could you expand a little bit on the metrics please because metrics with the number of people attending?  What would you be looking for in metrics on the request objectives?

Juan Ojeda:                             I think this is really on a case by case basis and it's really - the question would probably best be answered by the SO and AC in terms of how would the requesting community organization measure themselves with the success of their outcome - again if it's attendance, or are we talking participation, then that would be one metric, if it's given certain studies being performed for a particular project, if you will, then the communication and dissemination of that.  If it's something that’s posted for public comment the results of that public comment forum. 

It's really more along the lines of the organization in terms of - for example on like public participation and outreach, how many people are coming into the community?  And how many people are moving up the participation ladder, if you will, from the model that’s been discussed.  Things of that nature, but like I said, it's really difficult for us on the finance side to be able to give you a one size fits all for that.  It’s really more how would each SO and AC should this project be approved, how would they measure its success?  How would they grade it?

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Okay thank you but certainly there would be some metrics that you would be looking for a lot more than others?  If we start giving you the color of the shoes of the people attending the meeting, it will probably be of no help to you at all.  But do you have an specific metrics that you would be looking for in face to face meetings being conducted or in regional events or - I'm just trying to make sure that we are going to provide you with a list of metrics that you would be positive to rather than saying well this is not a sort of return on investment that we’re looking for at the moment.

Juan Ojeda:                             I think you're on the right path, in terms of its travel support for example, attendance, involvement, actual physical presence in the meetings and then internally if there is any way, for example, if you can show some metrics on this participation matter, if you will, to the best of your ability, how many participants are coming in, and they're just observers versus how many of these additional people that are being supported in travel to attendance of these meeting? 

How many of them are actually moving up in contribution status to leader status, if you will?  I think you're definitely on the right path in that perspective.  For example, like the events in Dakar, if you can provide some metrics, how many people actually attended the event?  I don’t know it could be some kind of a survey, what the feedback was on that, any potential increase in membership in the local RALOs, things of that nature. 

I mean hopefully I'm giving you some examples but it's really difficult for me at this point to be able to give you actually a complete, nonexhastive list of how the actual metrics should be used.  

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Okay thank you but I think just as a - for the record the event in Dakar did have all of these metrics, so we have those and I think they have been transmitted over to ICANN, so we have a full set of return of investment on that.   any other questions on the template itself? 

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              I seen that you also accept additional sheets of paper, [inaudible 00:36:14] plans or whatever or do you just want it chip and cheerful like it is now?  In other words do you just want the numbers of do you care about the concepts?

Juan Ojeda:                             No the concepts are definitely important and if the space doesn’t allow you, you can certainly attach a sheet.  I know that the - I think I communicated this I think it was in san Francisco that the ALAC was probably the SO and AC that presented the best requests in terms of the detail they provided.  Additional sheets or additional information can certainly be included; however we do request that the template be completed as much as possible for each specific request. 

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Okay a follow-up to you, I can't fit my name in some of this space so you can imagine fitting in a project would be all but impossible.  Consequently, is it going to be appropriate for us to just put in a link to, you know, where we live and play a great deal and that is of course on a Wiki space where all sorts of gory details can be listed and all sorts of materials can be sourced?  Now if it's okay to put it in this template, can I then ask, are you actually going to both looking at them?

Juan Ojeda:                             We certainly did last year.  The only thing is if you link it, I would just ask that it's something that is linkable not just by staff but anybody who is actually looking at the postings on our website to provide public comment to be able to allow -

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Wikis are public, so yes.

Juan Ojeda:                             Okay perfect.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Okay good. 

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Okay thank you and another question relating to the format and actually not specifically to you Juan but more to the participants here, has anyone had a problem with opening the documents since I gather the template is in docx format?  No one has, okay, I was just checking since some people use Open Source software that might not work correctly with the docx format itself.  Any other questions or suggestions on this and if we don’t then we can move to the next part which is where we do go from here.  I note one thing on the document which I have here, the deadline for budget framework consideration is 22 December, of course that has changed, it is now 20 January. 

Yes I can see it on the page.  What we’re going to do as the Finance and Budget Subcommittee is to collect all of the input from the different regions and have a call before the deadline and work also online to bring those community requests together over to you.  I understand that the request - and I was hoping of course that Xavier was going to be there to be able to speak to us about the actual process.  I'm not sure - has Xavier Calvez made it on the call?

Xavier Calvez:                        Yes.

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Fantastic Xavier. 

Xavier Calvez:                        Thank you, sorry to be late.

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         No problem, thank you for joining us on this call.  I was just going to ask you whether you could give us a little bit more detail about the process this year since we are going to have another call with you and your colleagues before we actually file all the forms.  But you also mentioned the wish for actually having two things, the first one being some kind of ranking, first, second, third and then perhaps looking at multiyear budgets.  I was hoping you could expand on this please.    

Xavier Calvez:                        Sorry I didn’t catch the first item you mentioned.

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         The ranking, last year we just sent a large number of requests - Gisella you're not muted.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              The woman who mutes us all is not muted, I love it.

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Okay sorry about this, yes the ranking basically.  Last year what we did was to send a whole number of requests but there was no ranking as to which ones we would say were the most important ones or for us and so you mention in your request that there was going to be ranking. 

Xavier Calvez:                        That we were asking the requests to be ranked by the organization that issues them.  That’s what the question was about, so the point was it's easier for us to be able to consolidate the requests and to be able to start sorting them out if the organization that issued the request says this is a request that’s more important than this next request.  It doesn’t mean that the less priority requests will not be considered. 

It's just how we can start sorting things out to - it's the first step in my view to be able to sort things out among the consolidated lists of requests.  Our expectation was to obtain from each organization for each request whether this is a high priority; this is a second priority and this kind of qualification of the requests if you wish.

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Thanks Xavier, your message actually mentions ranking by 1, 2 or 3, does this mean that a maximum of three requests would be funded or is this just an example?

Xavier Calvez:                        No it means that if you have 25 requests each of them should be ranked 1, 2 or 3 to determine its level of priority in your eyes.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              High, medium, low.

Xavier Calvez:                        Yes, high, medium, low to make it more simple.

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         That’s going to be tough for a committee that needs to collate the input from five different regions, how we’re going to be able to rank high, medium, I guess everybody is on high usually.

Xavier Calvez:                        And it's possible - I guess to me it depends on the volume of requests and at the end of the day the issue that I'm having is that I don’t want that we find ourselves and the ICANN staff with the duty of eliminating requests, if all of them are considered as high.  Because the bottom line is that unless they all fit within the given envelop that we can deal with, then we’re going to have to make a choice and I would rather you have input in that choice than not.  Do you see what I'm saying?

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Yes, okay thank you.

Xavier Calvez:                        Okay now, in the process to establish and order of priority within the ALAC organization I don’t know if replicating this approach at the level of each region would be helpful or if there is a way for you to determine what requests are either similar or can be categorized under the same label across the five regions or a majority of the regions.  Because I can imagine that if four out of five regions have a similar request it probably makes a stronger case for that specific request than for a more individualized type of request.  I don’t know if that can help sorting out the requests from your perspective?

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         It certainly would help in some way although it's also a challenge for us because sometimes those requests are independent from each other but that’s something that the working group will have to work on.  Our own deadline, our own internal deadline for filing requests is 10 January.  And so we are hoping to give ourselves time to be able to expand on this.  Cheryl?

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Thinking on the way forward and in coming back to the point you were just making on the time Olivier, is it possible, can we rest assured out here at the edges, so I'm not speaking from an ALAC or perhaps not even a RALO point of view but more perhaps the RALOs and the ALSs that we could look to using this type of format, this particular template pretend it says FY’14 and start doing things in September, October, November, December of this calendar year if you're going to stick to the same time tables for the next cycle?  Or are we going to shift pace and documentation again because we need more time, not less?

Xavier Calvez:                        I'm sorry Cheryl I haven’t understood your question.  I'm not sure which gear you're -

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Okay we've now got 10 days, the Finance and Budget Subcommittee has 10 days in a perfect world to gather who knows how many, let's hope it's no more than 30 or 40 or 50 or 100 and rank them, right?  No problem at all because we don’t have anything else to do of course, do we?  We work fulltime for our organization, not.  We will deal with it the best way we can this time around. 

Next time around to make this manageable and more successful and easier and do something out at the regions earlier, will we be assuming that the templates will be the same for the next financial year?  And will the timing on requests, the windows for input, etc be the same in the next cycle built out of [inaudible 00:47:22] planning or not?

Xavier Calvez:                        It's difficult to say.  I would intuitively want to say yes, but having not yet received - because we are at the beginning of it, feedback across everyone of the format, the time lines and so on, I can't for sure know whether everyone is happy with it, everyone is unhappy with it and there is an obvious amount of changes to apply to the process or it's time line that everyone would want to come up with.  My only direct answer to your question at this stage is I think we would want to try to provide more time for their requests than the basically month and a half or seven weeks that we have provided this time around.  Because I think the information -

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              And the time of year you’ve done it.

Xavier Calvez:                        Yes, understood.  You're thinking during the holidays. 

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Well for example, we’re about to launch into the lunar new year throughout Asia Pacific. 

Xavier Calvez:                        Right.  Now I understand -

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              And other holidays recently as well, yes.

Xavier Calvez:                        And Cheryl we will try to make sure we can take into account everything but when you take holidays across all the regions.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Xavier let me make a suggestion?

Xavier Calvez:                        Yes.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              We want to start in September is when we want to start.

Xavier Calvez:                        Yes and so let me answer directly that question.   I think that next year we should start in September irrespective of what deadlines we provide because you can start now for the following year as much as you would like it.  That’s perfectly fine.  I think you could start in September if you want next year and I doubt that the format would change drastically for those requests.  The time line we want to try to give more time and an earlier warning for these activities to take place.  So starting in September makes total sense to me and I don’t see any issues in doing that.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Thank you.

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Thank you Xavier and I can feel there are several virtual nods around the world at the moment because this year the process appears to have had a much earlier deadline than last year and always falling at the worst time or busiest time of the year with the holidays on one side and of course the lunar new year in Asia Pacific.  And in Europe many people only coming back to work this specific week, so it's been extremely rushed and certainly starting the process at lot earlier is something that we have asked for in the past and would be really looking forward to in the future. 

Xavier Calvez:                        Just to comment on that quickly Olivier, the deadline this year is I think about a month and a half if not a month later than it was last year.  I think the deadline last year for the requests were somewhere in early December as opposed to mid-January and so the change versus last year is probably a slightly different than what you just explained.

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         I think it was tweaked afterwards as well because I remember that it went on until February on that.

Xavier Calvez:                        And I do expect that the discussions this year will go on basically until Costa Rica, right?  Because the deadline that we have provided of December 20 is if you calculate it it's about the 45 days of public comment between that date and Costa Rica.  And we wanted to make sure because we have to ensure that there is a public comment opportunity that we had to put the deadlines together a time line that allows the community to have the public comment period being offered.  And as a result we didn’t have much of choice then this time. 

Now the original deadline was to be the 9 December or 15 December, I don’t remember that’s what we had discussed in Dakar.  And we pushed that out because we took longer to come up with the template on one hand.  And to also try to disconnect the [inaudible 00:52:27] feedback from the framework publication which is on 17 January so that we don’t force the - you all to provide information so that it can be included in the framework because that would make it more of a constraint for you guys as well as for us. 

No one would really benefit from it and it's not extremely useful that we have the requests in the framework especially if no one has really the amount of time to produce them.  That’s why we pushed it out.  I recognize that it then went over the year end vacation period which when we add five or six weeks to the process there is one or two weeks taken out of it because of the holidays and at the end of the day we’re going to have to find ways to deal with the fact that there are holidays and that holidays are different across the world. 

It's going to be - if I take out all the holidays’ time of the year we’re going to be left with four months to work on a budget that takes 10 months to do.  We will have to try to accommodate that one way or the other but certainly to Cheryl's point.  I think what we are going to try to do next year to publish the calendar much earlier and try to stick to it.  But publishing it much earlier so that people know what the deadlines are, know how they can work and with which tools and then publishing the deadlines earlier so that people understand.  And exactly to Cheryl's point the work on the [inaudible 00:54:15] request doesn’t have to start in January it can start in September.

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Okay thank you very much Xavier.  I understand we are running out of time.  I just had one last question for you which was that of multiple year budget requests.  Is this something which you can speak about now, or is this not ready yet?

Xavier Calvez:                        Well I think that we should look at it in terms of activities.  So if an activity [inaudible 00:54:48] you would like to bring up for the FY’13 is actually an activity you would like to recurring I think we should - you should try to formulate that in the request.  If you and have been exchanging emails on general assemblies and so on, if there are some kind of meetings that you would like to formulate as recurring activities with one or two or three meetings per year on a continuing basis in that the request only makes sense when you look at the multiyear period that covers the full rotation for example of meetings, I think you should do that. 

What I'm asking is not that you formulate a request for 2014-2015 but that you formulate requests on a multiyear basis for those on which multiyear perspective makes sense.  Is that helpful?

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Oh yes very much so, a little bit like a roadmap in some way.

Xavier Calvez:                        Absolutely and I would expect that a number of requests are much more specific to 2012.  And I think as part of the exercise of prioritization that we will have to do, when we look at a request formulated during this current exercise then we will look at a multiyear schedule, we can all try to work together. 

Maybe we can insert the 2013 portion of this into the [inaudible 00:56:35] request envelop process and at the same time trying to formulate this as therefore a pilot for next year and then look at this activity as a permanent activity and success determination that we've worked it out for the following year. 

I think it's useful to have to the full perspective of the requests if you perceive that this is something that would be looked at on a permanent basis.  And I recognize that sometimes all the requests we would like them to be permanent but I think we have to make the distinction between those that are structurally recurring like a rotation of meetings for example.  Or that can be defined within a given timeframe and leave it at that even if later we can consider making them permanent.

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         But for a request for a summit where the actual total sum involved exceeds the total sum allocated currently for all requests across ICANN would this be spread among several years or is this understandable as a one off large sum that can be planned for several years in advance or?

Xavier Calvez:                        The request of a summit, I think it's best that you can formulate it as part of this exercise with the understanding that it would probably match or exceed the entire envelop but I have the impression that this specific request is something that we need to be able to address - to take out of the overall envelop approach because to your point this much more structural.  This is much bigger than what we are looking at on an annual basis. 

And by the way, I'm sure you would like it but I don’t believe you would be suggesting having a summit every year.  So by definition that request needs to be looked at on the multiyear basis.  And so I think that if you can formulate it today as part of this process we should and what I suggest we do for that specific request or for any request like this that would be of a magnitude that takes it out of the [inaudible 00:59:16] envelop that we’re talking about right now that we just take it - you formulate it. 

You give it to us.  We look at it.  And we take it out of this specific process and we look at it on a specific basis.  And when I say look at it, I suspect that this type of expense is large enough that we should look at it at the Board level because that’s really a structural decision that needs to be made by the Board if only because of the magnitude of the amount.  And that in my view would be the most logical approach.  But I would rather that it does come to us in the same process as the [inaudible 00:59:58] request if you feel comfortable doing it like that because at least we will have the information and we can bring that information through the budgeting process.

Olivier Crepin-LeBlond:         Xavier thank you very much for this information.  We have run out of time.  We are actually six minutes over time and we have other calls that are following up right after this one.  Thank you very much for joining us.  Thanks to Juan, Janice and Aba and thanks to all of the Finance and Budget Subcommittee to have attended here.  Thanks bye. 

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