Terri Agnew:Welcome to the At-Large Ad-hoc WG on the Transition of US Government Stewardship of the IANA Function Teleconference on Thursday, 14th August 2014 at 1400 UTC
Terri Agnew:meeting page: https://community.icann.org/x/mcPhAg
Jean-Jacques Subrenat:Hello all!
Mohamed EL Bashir:Hello everyone
Terri Agnew 2:As a reminder, when not speaking please mute your line
Roberto Gaetano:Good, then I have a problem with the mike, I will dial in
Terri Agnew 2:Welcome everyone
Terri Agnew 2:Roberto, please let us know if you need a dial out
Heidi Ullrich:Welcome, All!
Roberto Gaetano:@Terri: thanks, I have dialed in.
Alberto Soto:Hello all!
silvia.vivanco@icann.org:Welcome all
Fatima Cambronero:hello everyone
Eduardo Diaz:¡Hola a todos! I need to leave in about 45 minutes
aída noblia:Hola a todos
Terri Agnew 2:Welcome Loris Taylor
Loris Taylor:Thank you
Terri Agnew 2:Welcome Cheryl Langdon Orr
Terri Agnew 2:Welcome Dev Anand Teelucksingh
Terri Agnew 2:Welcome Seun Ojedeji
Seun:glad i made it
Fatima Cambronero:sorry I lost it. Are you asking us about our reaction to the incorporation of a new candidate after the deadline?
Roberto Gaetano:Another aspect of this "pragmatic" approac, that Daniel Karrenberg favours, is that it gives a much higher power to the chair.
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:@Fatima: yes
Fatima Cambronero:ok, thanks @Olivier
Roberto Gaetano:Not that this is a per-se problem, but it confutes the claimed "administrative" role of the chair - it is indeed a political one
Roberto Gaetano:Not that this is a per-se problem, but it confutes the claimed "administrative" role of the chair - it is indeed a political one
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/internal-cg/2014-August/000899.html
Jean-Jacques Subrenat:@Tijani +1.
Jean-Jacques Subrenat:@Olivier, sorry to say this, but if I had not withdrawn my candidacy for Co-Chair, and proposed Mohamad for Vice-Chair, I'm sure we'd have his name on the list. But the problem is not that. It is what Tijani so clearly states.
Jean-Jacques Subrenat:(sorry, I meant "I'm NOT sure we'd have...")
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:So -- moving forward from the question of "out of nomination period nomination", how to we address this? Do I ask for a clarification from Alissa by email?
Seun:I think JJ already asked for clarification on the list
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:or should JJS reply on the ICG list that this is not a "challenge" but a procedural point of order?
Jean-Jacques Subrenat:Among my suggestions was one about distinguishing between items requiring compulsory voting by all members (Chair structure and population is one of those), and other items where some form of consensus is acceptable.
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:I would like to make sure we do not keep on being tagged as issuing challenges -- this is wrong.
Seun:I expect that the voting will be put on halt for now pending the clarification
Seun:@Olivier i think this is a fundamental issue and i don't think ICG should find this strange at all. What is strange is how they made that mistake of not following the rules they have set
Avri Doria:Sounds like the chiar is using std IETF WG process for finding rough consensus.
Jean-Jacques Subrenat:@Avri, I've reported to this list about "consensus"...
Avri Doria:i find it works quite well in most circumstances. though it may take getting used to. iif so it means that the vice-chairs will have near chair level repsonsiblities.
Seun:which is fine @Avri, but when there is a concensus on an item, i don't see why it should be over-ruled with another consensus
Seun:infact this particular addition happen not to receive consensus which even makes it un-called for
Jean-Jacques Subrenat:@Avri, are you formally opposed to the suggestion that for a limited number of items, such as Chair structure and composition, would require a complete, transparent and accountable vote?
Mohamed EL Bashir:The vice chairs will have responsibilities, this dvision of responsibilities need to be decided by ICG
Avri Doria:Jean-Jacques, sorry i don't think I am on the list, I am just following the converstaion and explaing what I know about std IETF process.
Avri Doria:- or i may be on the list and have just not seen the email. so many lists these days.
Jean-Jacques Subrenat:@Avri, I know, but I value your opinion, that's why I'm asking.
Jean-Jacques Subrenat:@Alberto +1.
Seun:@Mohammed on role of vice-chair, i would expect that the ICG should have clarified that even before proceeding to election. This includes the role of the chair....but again it seem ICG just wants leadership
Alan Greenberg:In the ALAC RoP, there is a very clear guideline on how many need to agree or disagree to be considered consensus.
Heidi Ullrich:ALAC ROPS - https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/Rules+of+Procedure
Roberto Gaetano:@JJS but the 2 votes cast clearly indicate the chair position, and the vice-chair positions
Seun:@Alan well i think consensus works in different way depending on the fora. In numbers world (RIR) consensus is not really majored on number of people but on the substance being discussed
Avri Doria:BTW, does this Ad-hoc group also discuss the CWG charter (Cross Community Working Group to Develop an IANA Stewardship Transition Proposal on Naming Related Functions) or is that another group. the group is in the process of passing it on to the chartering groups for review and hopefully approval.
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:Same WG @Avri
Avri Doria:cool
Jean-Jacques Subrenat:@Avri, to the best of my knowledge, ICG can only deal with its own draft Charter.
Mohamed EL Bashir:@Seun, there many ICG organization issues which need to be clarified, charter is still on draft format.. lots of discussions/time for a proposal/text to gain the support of all representitives
Avri Doria:yes, but ALAC needs to deal with e the CWG charter.
Avri Doria:and if this is the alac i remember from last year, they will want some group's recommendation first.
Avri Doria:Apoloigies for asking a question that not on the current topic and confusing peiple.
Seun:@Olivier, my view is that we push for the removal of the name introduced after the close of nomination period
Seun:@Mohamed yes i agree and my question will then be why rush into voting/chair sage when basic documentation has not been put in place
Jean-Jacques Subrenat:@Mohamed, "level of formality"? Rather than "formality", this is about reliability, a legitimate outcome.
Fatima Cambronero:Agree @Mohamed. And also if we think she is not doing very well her work as Chair we can vote as Chair to another candidate...
Jean-Jacques Subrenat:@Mohamed, that's why I suggest a compulsory vote of all members on certain items.
Seun:@Fatima actually i think Alise is doing a great job as chair, but again that should not make the chair selection process defacto. It needs to be on record that she was selected transparrently
Alberto Soto:@Fatima +1
Jean-Jacques Subrenat:@Mohamed, it's not about any individual. It's about a dependable process.
Seun:for instance the update of the name inclusion that was sent was not from Alise
Alberto Soto:Is that any process must demonstrate full transparency .... and so does not seem
Seun:+1 @Alberto
Mohamed EL Bashir:@JJS i do agree the lack of process this which leads us to this point
Seun:I have said this on different fora that bringing in these chair/vice-chair/co-chair issue into ICG was just going to complicate things. Everybody in that group are chairs from different community so it will become a tussle to get another level of leadership especially when the role is not yet defind
Fatima Cambronero:agree @Olivier
Gordon Chillcott:+1 @Olivier
Mohamed EL Bashir:my sugguestion for Olivier is to write offlist to Alissa
Mohamed EL Bashir:@JJS : i agree on the offlist message
Avri Doria:Seun, in that ,you and I were in agreement.
Jean-Jacques Subrenat:@Olivier, yes thanks.
Jean-Jacques Subrenat:@Olivier, you're right; but that part of the Secretariat's work would be "under the sole control of the ICG".
Jean-Jacques Subrenat:@Olivier, "independent" is quite relative, as an external Sec would be paid for by ICANN !
Jean-Jacques Subrenat:@Mohamed, "charter"...
Gisella Gruber:Yes mohamed
Alan Greenberg:Doc at http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/internal-cg/attachments/20140813/e1d81377/IANATransitionRFPv07ALC-MM-0001.docx
Seun:thanks
Fatima Cambronero:thanks @Alan
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:thanks
Tijani BEN JEMAA:I don't hear you
Tijani BEN JEMAA:on Adobe
Tijani BEN JEMAA:I don't hear you any more on the Adobe
Tijani BEN JEMAA:ok, it's back
Seun:yeah i agree @mohamed however i think the final charter of ICG will really help determine how the rfp will look like
Fatima Cambronero:@Mohamed, can you write the phrase that you want to add to the text?
Jean-Jacques Subrenat:@Mohamed, it would be important to insist on "the concerned global user communities".
Jean-Jacques Subrenat:@Alan +1.
Mohamed EL Bashir:@Alan +1
Alberto Soto:@Alan +1
Gordon Chillcott:+1, Alan. that, too is part of the "real world"
Loris Taylor:I think the operational proposals will be technical and important, but I hope stakeholders at large will continue to have a voice at the table. Especially thsoe that are underrepresented.
Seun:I think the current call for cooment can prove that there may not be many different proposal submission. However its good to have that option open
Jean-Jacques Subrenat:@Mohamed +1, ALAC should develop a method by which users can make known their point of view.
Jean-Jacques Subrenat:@Olivier, the presumption is that all ICG members are equal, so yes, that includes ALAC representatives.
Jean-Jacques Subrenat:And also, it is important to avoid "consumer" or "customer", which are too limitative.
Roberto Gaetano:The problem in splitting in three, is that the domain names, addresses and parameters community have different objectives and needs, sometimes contrasting
Roberto Gaetano:Somebody has to address the overarching issues
Seun:if i may ask, where are the views?
Roberto Gaetano:Think at money flow as an overarching issue - money comes from gTLDs - would that community have "temptations"?
Seun:i shared my view on the draft though....incase its useful
Loris Taylor:I am not clear on which body will be tasked with making certain that the public interest of the multi-stakeholders will be balanced against government and/or corporate interests in this process.
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:@Loris: at the moment: none
Mohamed EL Bashir:FYI the bellow email message is just received now from ICG Interim chair ( Alissa ) :
Mohamed EL Bashir:Keith Davidson has indeed confirmed to myself, Joe, and Martin off-listthat he is willing to serve. His nomination came in some hours late asMartin was on leave prior to the deadline. My thinking here is that weshould give people the benefit of the doubt when they seem to be acting ingood faith.Given that having Keith's name on the list of volunteers doesn't affectthe rest of the list (and each person can vote for whichever people whosecandidacies they find legitimate), I think we're in good shape to carry onwith the process Joe outlined.Cheers,Alissa
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:or at least if only 3 inputs to the IGC, there's a problem
Mohamed EL Bashir:on the nomination of Keith Davidson after the deadline
Jean-Jacques Subrenat:@Mohamed, sorry I do not agree.
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:@Mohamed - thanks
Seun:@Mohamed that view of Alissa does not go down well with me
Jean-Jacques Subrenat:@Roberto, good analysis. Important.
Jean-Jacques Subrenat:@Roberto: so, a way of "compensating" for the NetMundial orientations?
Seun:it need to be clear that no one is against the person keith but against the fact that the due process was not followed which makes it a concern. By the way, why should an interested person send interest offlist...is that the process? as i don't think that is transparrent enough
Jean-Jacques Subrenat:@Seun: quite right.
Fatima Cambronero:@Olivier, I will follow the discussion in the LACNIC process
Seun:an update is that the names process to globally engage the community will be provided end of the month
Jean-Jacques Subrenat:@Olivier, @deadline, I'm afraid that's not the real issue.
Terri Agnew 2:Carlton Samuels has joined
Carlton Samuels:Howdy all. Joining late on account of working for a living
Loris Taylor:I will be in my organizational strategic planning retreat next week. But I will rejoin the conversation the week after if there is a call.
Fatima Cambronero:the mailing list of LACNIC is open to everyone
Gisella Gruber:@ Olivier - I will do this now for Wednesday and Thursday
Seun:@Fatima sure the mailing list for each RIR is open for everyone but i am rferring to the process to generating the proposal
Carlton Samuels:Did we discuss the subsantive position of the ALAC on the main issue? That is the scope of the IGC?
Fatima Cambronero:sorry
Fatima Cambronero:I wanted to clear my status
Jean-Jacques Subrenat:@Carlton, in part.
Seun:thanks
Heidi Ullrich:Thanks, All.
Carlton Samuels:@JJS Thanks
Jean-Jacques Subrenat:Goodbye all !
Carlton Samuels:Will look for the transcript
Mohamed EL Bashir:Thanks everyone
Fatima Cambronero:@Seun I mean the mailing list of IANA transition that I shared in the list
Loris Taylor:Thank you to our representatives
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:take care all
Alberto Soto:Thanks! Bye bye
Gordon Chillcott:Thank you.
Fatima Cambronero:@thanks to everyone. Bye
aída noblia:Bye all
Carlton Samuels:Bye all
Avri Doria:bye,
