Zoom chat: 2019-07-31 Consolidated Policy Working Group Call

13:41:48 From Claudia Ruiz : Welcome to the Consolidated Policy Working Group Call on Wednesday, 31 July 2019 at 21:00 UTC
13:46:56 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : OK
13:48:13 From Claudia Ruiz : https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=ICANN [streamtext.net]
13:52:10 From Claudia Ruiz : https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=ICANN [streamtext.net]
13:54:51 From Claudia Ruiz : https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=ICANN [streamtext.net]
13:55:14 From Heidi Ullrich : Welcome, All!
13:56:06 From Jamie : Hi, can you give me CC privs?
13:56:38 From Harold Arcos : Hi everyone from a sunny Caracas,,,
13:56:51 From Claudia Ruiz : https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=ICANN [streamtext.net]
13:57:31 From Jonathan Zuck : Caracas! I miss it there!
13:57:55 From Jamie : Thank you!
13:58:09 From Claudia Ruiz : https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=ICANN [streamtext.net]
13:58:47 From Jamie : Thank you, Captions can now be seen in both Streamtext and by clicking the Zoom CC button
13:58:54 From Evin Erdogdu : Hello all, welcome.
13:59:05 From Holly Raiche : Great that we are offering the service - well done
14:00:35 From Claudia Ruiz : https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=ICANN [streamtext.net]
14:02:28 From Alberto Soto : Hola a todos, hello everyone!
14:02:56 From Claudia Ruiz : https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=ICANN [streamtext.net]
14:05:13 From Holly Raiche : Evin - do you have my updated list of issues for a slide?
14:07:05 From Claudia Ruiz : https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=ICANN [streamtext.net]
14:07:36 From Claudia Ruiz : We have RTT on the call today, please click link to follow along: https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=ICANN [streamtext.net]
14:10:39 From Holly Raiche : It’s a HUGE issue
14:11:08 From Alberto Soto : I am testing the RTT. It works well. As it opens in a Chrome window, I put automatic translation and translate it into Spanish .....
14:11:27 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : if the access system cannot be automated, does this mean there will be human intervention needed for each request? Wow.
14:11:32 From Judith Hellerstein : If you want to see it on Zoom Click closed caption
14:13:07 From Alberto Soto : so did Judith
14:13:40 From Holly Raiche : Thanks Alan - that is what I thought
14:20:54 From Claudia Ruiz : We have RTT on the call today, please click link to follow along: https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=ICANN [streamtext.net]
14:21:22 From Hadia : the sound is breaking
14:22:12 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : all fine here
14:23:35 From Justine Chew : SubPro Updates Workspace: https://community.icann.org/x/6a_jBg
14:28:07 From Jonathan Zuck : I’ll take an AI to go through this as CCT guy…
14:29:52 From Holly Raiche : @ JZ - Tks - Do you want another list - what we should call on the Board to dos, etc?
14:30:43 From Holly Raiche : Justine is right - ALC has said LOTS over MANY years
14:31:01 From Greg Shatan : This is very helpful and great work. I just hope those in At Large and in SubPro use it (wisely).
14:31:10 From Evan Leibovitch : Yes... And not all of it still applies
14:32:06 From Holly Raiche : @ Evan - true - but a lot of issues are still relevant and important.
14:32:25 From Evan Leibovitch : Such as?
14:33:00 From Evan Leibovitch : (and please be reminded that we are here to speak for the interests of end users.
14:33:32 From Holly Raiche : My issue with saying it is open to all - but without recognizing the challenges faced by some - is not enough
14:33:46 From Evan Leibovitch : The trials and tribulations of TLD applicants are NOT OUR CONCERN beyond issues of stability, safety and abuse
14:34:29 From Holly Raiche : @ Evan - was/is that the ALAC position
14:34:56 From Evan Leibovitch : Once not. Now given new facts, should be
14:35:27 From Holly Raiche : @ Evan - which is what I understood to be the case
14:35:35 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : @Evan: I differ with you when it comes to communities of end users that might be interested in consolidating their community with a gTLD
14:36:10 From Holly Raiche : Which makes issues of support - including support - an issue for ALAC?
14:36:35 From Holly Raiche : (I meant financial as well as other support
14:36:50 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : The Applicant Support Program is probably one of the only things that the ALAC has pushed for in the new gTLD programme, basically because if one has to really have another round of new gTLDs, then the belief is that end user communities should also have a chance to apply
14:37:34 From Hadia : +1 Olivier
14:37:35 From Evan Leibovitch : Olivier... exactly how many such communities have stepped forward to request this? Not applicants, but identifiable end user communities?
14:37:39 From Holly Raiche : Maybe we need to start with a basic question for ALAC - should some applicants be given support (including financial support)
14:37:51 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : the message here is: don't make the new gTLD process something that's just profit focussed.
14:38:05 From Carlton Samuels : @OCL that was the major reason for the ALAC support; underserved user communities applying as special case community type applicants for a gTLD
14:38:06 From Evan Leibovitch : Why?
14:38:55 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : very few communities have stepped forward - but we know of some that could have, but did not know enough in the last round. There should be more in the current round. One such example, in my opinion, should be the First Nations
14:39:34 From Evan Leibovitch : Evidence? We've been at this for more than a dozen years.
14:39:56 From Hadia : Profit is important but communities support is just as important
14:40:13 From Holly Raiche : @ Evan - true - and we do not all agree for more than a dozen years
14:40:16 From Evan Leibovitch : Why?
14:40:22 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : Some cultures and languages are at the brink of completely disappearing during this generation if they do not find a home on the Internet.
14:40:30 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : extinction.
14:41:36 From Evan Leibovitch : I consider it utter poppy cock to assert that the existence of a bloody TLD is necessary to sustain ANY identifiable community.
14:41:59 From Evan Leibovitch : That's applicant marketing speak
14:42:15 From Evan Leibovitch : With ZERO evidence to back it up
14:42:42 From Carlton Samuels : @OCL that was one of the other reasons we supported the coming of non-Latinized scripts to the DNS.
14:42:52 From Justine Chew : Do folks find the snapshot updates useful at all?
14:43:24 From Hadia : I find it useful Justine
14:43:27 From Evan Leibovitch : It's certainly useful to me
14:43:28 From Gordon Chillcott : Yes!
14:43:49 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : Very useful, Justine
14:44:17 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : So Evan I suspect some of the work your referencing might also come into play with these terminologies
14:47:21 From Justine Chew : @Evan, thank you.
14:48:18 From Hadia : Evan we haven’t seen evidence that says otherwise either
14:49:35 From Nadira AL-ARAJ : so far I didn't see any of ALAC positions input followed evidence based studies
14:49:50 From Justine Chew : Another question that I need to pose is does this group think that the 4 CCT recommendations have been adequately addressed within its deliberations, whether it leads to high level agreement or resolution outstanding issues etc.
14:50:06 From Hadia : sustainability is an important topic that needs to be discussed as well
14:52:47 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : ALAC is perfectly within its rights to remove its previous support for the Applicant Support Programme
14:53:25 From John Laprise (ALAC/NARALO) : oops...gotta run everyone. FWIW I lean towards Evan's point.
14:53:31 From Evan Leibovitch : FWIW, Avri was my co-chair in the original ASP in the last round
14:54:25 From Justine Chew : So we keep ASP on the table for now, but STRESS on CCT Rec. 29 and 30?
14:55:28 From Evan Leibovitch : As I said, we have a long standing example to research wrt community impact, based on the long standing .CAT community domain.
14:56:00 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : One question I'd lke to ask is if the Tribes in the Amazon region had applied for .AMAZON, what would be the situation with the current Amazon application? Would they be in a better position than now?
14:56:28 From Jonathan Zuck : Interesting question Olivier. That’s part of what we’re addressing on geo names.
14:56:40 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : .CAT has had an important political effect, making Catalonia exist online
14:56:58 From Justine Chew : @OCL, that's geoname overlap and Amazon isn't a geoname per 2012 AGB.
14:57:19 From Jonathan Zuck : CW is right about the optics. Perhaps we need to make a more targeted “pilot” program with only a couple applicants where we really help to build up some indigenous infrastructure.
14:58:02 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : @Justine: which is why I ask --- tribesin the Amazon apply for .Amazon as a community TLD and using Applicant Support. How would that have worked out? (or not?)
14:58:16 From Jonathan Zuck : Andrew Mack did a report for the CCT that was this kind of informal survey and most said it wasn’t about money but about a missing business model
14:58:45 From Marita Moll : @Olivier -- I asked that question -- where would .Amazon be in the context of current discussions. Would it still be allowed. There was a great silence. No one answered. I think the answer is that there is nothing to date, that would prevent it
14:58:48 From Yrjo Lansipuro : +1 to Evan and Greg on the need for research, at least some sort of
14:58:48 From Evan Leibovitch : Olivier, is there any research on the impact of .CAT? That's exactly the kind of quantifiable data that's needed to demonstrate utility for community TLDs, subsidized or not.
14:59:25 From Justine Chew : @OCL, well assuming that the applicant can meet the ASP criteria....
14:59:27 From Jonathan Zuck : Part of the issue is that “underserved regions” are more underserved in other areas than in the lack of gTLDs
15:00:17 From Heidi Ullrich : @All, we are getting ready to schedule a webinar on SubPro with Cyrus and Trang next week.
15:00:28 From Evan Leibovitch : @Jonathan YESSS
15:00:33 From Greg Shatan : There was also discussion of the issues for “middle applicants”....
15:00:36 From Heidi Ullrich : Are there any issues/questions you would like them to address?
15:00:43 From Marita Moll : I should add that I am part of wt5. So my question was really if wt5 had done anything yet to avoid that
15:00:52 From Jonathan Zuck : Evan’s counter on the optics would be that this is just window dressing that makes us all look and feel good without actually helping anyone
15:00:58 From Hadia : @greg I like the idea of incubator - for sure there is no need for a community TLD that is not sustainable
15:01:24 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Do also remember that other aspects of proposed improvements to processes associated with any new gTLD offerings/'opportunities' are likely to come into play as well such as the work on Registry Service Provider Technical etc.,
15:01:27 From Justine Chew : @Heidi, wait till Jonathan's agenda item on GDD assumptions.
15:01:42 From Greg Shatan : No time like the present....
15:02:08 From Justine Chew : @OCL, we only have 24 hours in the day. :(
15:02:14 From Jonathan Zuck : There will be plenty of ops to discuss it I think. A new round is a ways off. Evan is right that we don’t need to be knee jerk in our positions. Let’s leave that to the NCUC
15:03:00 From Heidi Ullrich : @Justine, will do.
15:03:30 From Greg Shatan : Just because we’ve licked a metal pole in winter, we shouldn’t keep our tongue on the pole for the sake of appearances. And neither should ICANN.
15:04:30 From Evan Leibovitch : A community in search of sustainability (such as an Aboriginal group) might find that there are more important uses of their scarce resources than investing in a TLD.
15:04:57 From Jonathan Zuck : Agreed. Good point, Cheryl
15:05:04 From Greg Shatan : Applicant support could include counseling potential applicants s not to apply.
15:05:15 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : I do try JZ
15:05:33 From Sebastien Bachollet : ASP is a need if and only if we have a next round
15:05:41 From Jonathan Zuck : Indeed @Greg. There was a mentoring program that was also a failure which might be more helpful than money
15:06:34 From Evan Leibovitch : Anyway, thanks for the opportunity to express my views, whether they're accepted or not.
15:07:02 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : You're welcome, Evan :)
15:07:55 From Roberto : @Evan I don’t know if they will be accepted, but for sure provoked some in depth thinking, which is a good result anyway
15:09:53 From Evan Leibovitch : BTW, to Nadira, mentioning that ALAC has not requested research on which to base other positions...
15:10:58 From Evan Leibovitch : You're absolutely right. That's an indictment of ALAC in taking ill-researched positions.
15:11:00 From christopher wilkinson : There will be a webinar with GDD? When? CW
15:12:17 From Justine Chew : I think they said something about building a scalable system
15:12:55 From Holly Raiche : @ JZ - I guess the separate point is about impact on safety/security - which includes the SSAC advice as well as recommendations from the CCT report.
15:15:01 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : scalability was indeed mentioned as a consideration Yes @Justine
15:15:03 From Alan Greenberg : Different systems for 500 vs 1000 just doesn't make sense!
15:15:41 From Jonathan Zuck : Well, it’s what they said. I’m not sure it makes sense to me either but some of the systems that ICANN has built are pretty bad and pretty expensive. In this case they would be borrowing the money to do this.
15:15:50 From herb.waye : Must drop… regards to all.
15:16:07 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Bye @Herb thanks for joining us
15:16:45 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : Thanks @Herb
15:17:22 From Jonathan Zuck : From CW: The paper is not quite consistent: on the one hand one has 'as little as possible will be outsourced' and on the other hand one has 'evaluation and objection processing' may be outsourced 'to expert firms'… But those are precisely the functions that are most important for the credibility and accountability of the whole process, bearing in mind that the characteristics of applications may become far more diverse in several respects, compared with 2012. See also point 1, above.
15:18:34 From Evan Leibovitch : At the risk of being repetitive... What is the END USER interest in how ICANN design its systems?
15:18:44 From Evan Leibovitch : We care that the end results don't harm end users. Beyond that... out of our scope.
15:20:04 From Justine Chew : Yes, we should look at supporting the delegation rate proposed as safe by SSAC etc
15:20:12 From Jonathan Zuck : @Evan. Again sympathetic. I guess the answer is that the result falls from these assumptions which last time led to less than stellar compliance, huge rates of DNS Abuse, and overall confusion. I guess beyond that, we are always concerned about how money is spent if it’s not being spent on us!
15:20:25 From Carlton Samuels : @Evan only to the extent that resources are needlessly committed that could be otherwise directed in support ofvend users
15:20:35 From Alan Greenberg : @Evan, if ICANN is to embark on this (and that seems to be the case) then doing it well is an issue that will effect ICANN credibility and thus of interest to us.
15:20:54 From Alan Greenberg : I have to leave now. Thanks all.
15:22:22 From Evan Leibovitch : Alan, yes they need to do it well. We care that they do it well and we must specify what is required. Our micromanaging how they will do it well is unnecessary.
15:22:34 From Justine Chew : @JZ, please do!
15:24:14 From Carlton Samuels : I have to drop off. Bye all. Thank you all. Thank you Evan for sending the waters.
15:24:59 From Judith Hellerstein : yes
15:25:47 From Evin Erdogdu : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xImfhKLh1LGG4I2rc6yxzvBrjZ0jm7VtXfTFlpeE5Ow/edit?usp=sharing
15:25:47 From Evan Leibovitch : Maybe it's time to create a meme "what is the relevance to end users?" and deploy as necessary
15:26:01 From Evin Erdogdu : WT5 GeoNames Scenarios (comment-only): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xImfhKLh1LGG4I2rc6yxzvBrjZ0jm7VtXfTFlpeE5Ow/edit?usp=sharing
15:26:05 From Justine Chew : I will ask for 15 minutes for SubPro Updates at next week's call.

15:27:28 From Hadia : Thanks Jonathan
15:32:23 From Evin Erdogdu : Thanks Judith
15:33:18 From Hadia : thanks judith - I shall have to leave the call now - Thank you all bye
15:33:49 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : TOne down expenditire planning to match the changes in any assumptions is a given I would think
15:34:09 From Holly Raiche : Good point Marita - it highlights why the push for another ‘round’
15:34:37 From Marita Moll : Right -- we just need to be on the same page about new gtld rounds
15:34:57 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : Thanks for making that point Marita. Important
15:35:52 From Marita Moll : That would be wonderful. It has been a real scramble
15:36:17 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : Only with the agreement of ALAC Chair
15:36:26 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : It is a CPWG request for an extension with my consent.. of course. Given
15:36:34 From Evin Erdoğdu : Thanks Maureen will do
15:36:42 From Marita Moll : Yeah!!!!
15:37:03 From christopher wilkinson : Leaving the call. PDPD
15:37:12 From christopher wilkinson : Dtomro+
15:37:20 From christopher wilkinson : tomorrow an
15:38:03 From Marita Moll : Thanks everyone. Have to sign off now.
15:38:19 From Justine Chew : Just reading the earlier chats which were posted while I was presenting on ASP. Thanks for the support & encouragement, folks. I will try to allude to topics which public comments have not been deliberated as yet.
15:38:31 From Evan Leibovitch : Sorry gotta go. Good discussion. Thanks for the engagement.
15:39:21 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : thanks @Evan
15:39:32 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : thanks @Marita
15:41:32 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : Just that it is 3am for me.. :)
15:41:35 From Alberto Soto : Thanks, bye!!
15:41:45 From Justine Chew : @OCL, don't know. please look at the consolidated calendar!
15:42:02 From Abdeldjalil Bachar Bong : Thanks and bye
15:43:16 From Jonathan Zuck : Switch it u? Do 1900 again and get off sync with the noncom call?
15:44:02 From Justine Chew : WT5 is on at UTC 20:00
15:45:00 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Bye for now
15:45:02 From Vrikson Acosta : Bye
15:45:04 From Gordon Chillcott : Thanks and bye for now.
15:45:14 From Evin Erdogdu : Thank you all!
15:45:17 From avri doria : bye, thanks
15:45:18 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Yes indeed good trial
15:45:18 From Greg Shatan : REAL TIME TRANSCRIPTION ROCKS! ON THE IPAD...
15:45:20 From Vrikson Acosta : Bye
15:45:26 From Judith Hellerstein : Thanks
15:45:48 From Marcelo Rodríguez : bye thank you