Zoom chat: 2020-04-27 ALS Mobilization Working Party Call

12:58:32 From Heidi Ullrich : Welcome, All.
13:00:24 From Amrita Choudhury : Hi everyone
13:00:55 From Raymond Mamattah (ICANN67 Fellow) : Good evening from Accra, Ghana
13:01:52 From Nadira Al Araj : Hi All
13:03:33 From Sarah Kiden : Hi everyone
13:03:35 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh : Hello all
13:05:05 From Justine Chew : i had it too
13:08:14 From Judith Hellerstein : i do not have the ability to comment on this document
13:10:37 From Alperen Eken : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KTVmZIGxNF7_pro4-GmvyPZQmCkH8blcsXKd7rSbix4/edit?usp=sharing
13:12:09 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : Alp, I can't access the google doc via this link
13:12:24 From Alperen Eken : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KTVmZIGxNF7_pro4-GmvyPZQmCkH8blcsXKd7rSbix4/edit?usp=sharing
13:12:32 From Alperen Eken : Can you try again Maureen?
13:13:09 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh : I do want to bring up something regarding LACRALO draft RoP as a FYI in response to Alan's email to the ALAC list
13:13:17 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh : after this
13:13:31 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : Thanks Alp... it works now
13:13:56 From Alperen Eken : You are welcome
13:14:04 From Jacqueline Morris : In the beginning we didn't really debate and vote on individual ALSes, because 1)There were so many at once as we were starting up RALOs, and 2) Many had been invited to join, so we couldn't really invite a group and then turn them away.
13:16:51 From Jacqueline Morris : So we really only voted when an ALAC member really wanted to.
13:17:27 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Noted @Jaqueline, (amd that may explain the Documentation) 8BUT* since at least 2005(ish) it was practice to do so (as you might painfully remember) causing a "little issue"at one stage ;-)
13:18:13 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : SO historically for a doog while and certainlt predating any staff still involved the practice was to take a vote and ensure various efficiincies
13:18:39 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : sorry about my typos
13:19:44 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Good point @Dev, these days the term 'ICANN Staff" could/should indeed include GSE staff
13:20:52 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : "Secretariat" could be replaced with 'Regional Leadership'
13:21:25 From Sarah Kiden : Agree with replacing Secretariat with Regional Leadership
13:21:28 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh : Sure. I thought it strange regional secretariat was referenced. I would think, especially given the points in the previous paragraph that a RALO secretariat could also be subjected to individual person's biases, etc
13:21:40 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Follow up has been done by staff on an "as needs be basis"
13:23:08 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh : it could be done on the protected part on a wiki
13:23:50 From Nadira Al Araj : Good point Dev And I support Cheryl that staff must do that
13:24:01 From Judith Hellerstein : i agree with yrjo
13:27:16 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : SPecific limitations as opposed to Felxability Alan, there needs to be an adjunct doc with Huidance
13:27:23 From David Mackey : “hoi polloi” - great word :-)
13:27:32 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : I AM DEAD AGAINST wide distribution
13:28:02 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : just did NOT want to go down that rabbit hole here and now
13:28:22 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : We have had instances when there are protectionist attitudes by one group against another applicant wwith different views from them from the same country. I'd like to leave it to the leadership to make a decision based on overall issues raised
13:28:50 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : INdeed @Maureen
13:28:58 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : Agree Alan
13:29:14 From Justine Chew : Are we contemplating discretion be given to RALOs as to how to handle evaluating ALS applications?
13:29:17 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : and YES Alan the facts not personal opinion and hearsay needs to be the prome directive here
13:29:28 From Roberto : @alan: unfortunate, but true
13:29:39 From Jacqueline Morris : @Alan. True.
13:29:52 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : and SUCH delays are a great concern under other issues, like fairness to the applicant
13:30:13 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : so Yes timelines are essential as well
13:31:05 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : IN the *end* of course it is an ALAC decision of course
13:31:27 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : ALAC votes to accept or reject ny advice from the Region
13:32:08 From Judith Hellerstein : we had an issue where several ALSes did not think a new ALS was a good one but in general most ALSES voted in favor
13:32:10 From Nadira Al Araj : If there is clear guidelines to follow then the decision would be easy to take
13:32:50 From silvia.vivanco : Hello all
13:33:35 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh : That being said, it shouldn't take a year to process
13:34:23 From Raymond Mamattah : If I understand the chats on going it means the current ALS have to vote to accredit a new ALS. If yes, why should that be the case?
13:35:02 From Judith Hellerstein : in our case we set timelines and obeyed them, the longest we had waited was 45 days
13:35:17 From Nadira Al Araj : can we refer to this guideline as appendix to this document
13:36:07 From Justine Chew : I would prefer that RALO leadership undertakes the evaluation and makes a recommendation to ALSes (reps) on whether to accept or reject the application with rationale given. Due diligence should automatically include input from regional GSE rather than only where a question about eligibility remains. If ALSes wish to query RALO Leadership's recommendation they may do so, with specific reasons. RALO Leadership recommendations go to ALAC for consideration, ALAC votes to accept or reject.
13:36:58 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : We are working well within the numbers however
13:37:18 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh : @Raymond - the RALO has to give advice - some RALOs have resorted to ALS vote to what the advice is
13:37:21 From David Mackey : @Judith, I get the impression that NARALO is in a different environment from some of the other regions
13:37:36 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : and here COmmunication *with the applicant* is the key (and actually if memory serves) is manf=date anyway
13:38:17 From Judith Hellerstein : @david Naralo liked to survey and get input from our ALSES so that they are involved and engaged
13:38:48 From David Mackey : @Judith understood & that makes sense for NARALO
13:39:01 From Raymond Mamattah : Thanks @Dev
13:39:25 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : as @David notes it is unique in that and differences do exist (reasonably so) between the RALOs
13:41:22 From Jacqueline Morris : That doesn't happen in all RALOs. For some, all discussion and comment is generally on the public list.
13:41:49 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : put it here
13:42:14 From Justine Chew : I like THIS due diligence process in Step 2.
13:42:34 From Judith Hellerstein : we used to put the comments on the public list except when we had some more secret issues
13:42:55 From Alperen Eken : (https://atlarge.icann.org/get-involved/about-als)
13:43:04 From Judith Hellerstein : we found out that others outside Naralo could be on the list
13:43:50 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh : The text is from https://atlarge.icann.org/get-involved/about-als
13:44:23 From Justine Chew : @Judith, correct. I understand the RALO list isn't closed to RALO members. That's also why I find it problematic to share application info to the list.
13:45:14 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh : As I've mentioned, have the discussion on a protected portion on the wiki accessible to only the ALS reps
13:46:04 From Judith Hellerstein : you do know most people do not read, they scan
13:46:20 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Thanks Alp We (me) still have questions but we will go off line for that)
13:46:21 From Justine Chew : @CLO, LOL. All Yes or No questions should always be asked in the affirmative?
13:46:30 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh : Perhaps the "available responses" can be expanded
13:46:39 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Lots about THIS document is dare we say "interesting"
13:47:14 From David Mackey : I agree with @Justine re: use of affirmative
13:47:57 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : +1 David and Justine
13:47:59 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Yes the worded for the last decade were carefully chosen BUT NOT this Cr*P
13:48:03 From Justine Chew : @Dev, just use affirmative language and avoid double negatives.
13:48:07 From Jacqueline Morris : It could be made much simpler - rather then "overturning the advice", simply vote FOR or AGAINST accepting an ALS
13:48:41 From Judith Hellerstein : +1 jacqi
13:49:01 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : The current language is clearer @Jaqueline, this is language not used for at least a decade
13:49:20 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : the doc is full of overturned and not updated noinesence
13:50:04 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh : Sorry that was me, guess it was my net connection because I thought you got disconnected
13:50:32 From Justine Chew : Just write a new one for adoption?
13:50:42 From Jacqueline Morris : @Justine - I agree
13:51:03 From Bastiaan Goslings : @Justine: agree
13:51:12 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : +1 Justine
13:51:14 From Nadira Al Araj : +1 Justine
13:51:15 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh : Agree with Justine
13:51:19 From Sarah Kiden : Agree with Justine
13:51:20 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : This is *THE* opportunity for a good tidy up
13:51:56 From David Mackey : ty :-)
13:51:59 From Justine Chew : And just preface new document with "This supersedes and replaces all earlier documents on this subject"
13:52:16 From Raymond Mamattah : I think the 2/3 of ALAC vote should rather be simple majority of that vote.
13:53:16 From David Mackey : sounds good
13:53:29 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : @Raymond - assuming that ALL the ALAC members vote
13:53:30 From Nadira Al Araj : Sounds a good suggestion @ALan
13:53:37 From Roberto : +1 @Alan
13:53:41 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Develop a 'Best of Breed" set of options that reflects WHAT we do
13:53:45 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Add me in
13:54:08 From Sarah Kiden : It’s a good way to go. I think you can ask people to work with you
13:54:26 From Justine Chew : Fine with me @Alan
13:54:29 From Bastiaan Goslings : @Alan: sounds like a good plan to me
13:54:39 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : sounds good to me'
13:54:50 From Jacqueline Morris : That's a plan
13:54:50 From ali almeshal : sound good to me as well
13:55:33 From Raymond Mamattah : @Maureen, if the ALAC members refused to vote, it will delay the process. So I believe the simple majority of those who voted can suffice.
13:55:40 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh : 3.- Finally, it is recommended to see article 21 of the draft of our procedural rules that states: "Article 21. LACRALO members interested in running for leadership positions must declare that they do not have one of the following conflicts, which are incompatible with a leadership position at LACRALO: • Have close family relationships with ICANN employees (parents, siblings, spouses or partners, children); • Be under a financial contract with ICANN; • Have leadership positions in registries, registrars, ISPs or business chambers specifically representing these businesses; • Be in a decision-making position on behalf of a national government, such as Minister of State, Deputy Minister, or equivalent; • Be participating as a representative of your country before the GAC or other AC / SO "
13:57:10 From Justine Chew : @Raymond, there is typically a fixed voting period.
13:57:50 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Regional Rules should not *CONFLICT* with the overarching ones, but there is many differences within and between RALOs
13:58:05 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : (At thos stage- to fix it is not actually our job)
13:58:25 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : +1 Cheryl.. as long as they don't conflict with ALAC rules..
13:59:36 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh : True - some draft of these LACRALO rules attempted to block participation in any ICANN community
14:00:15 From Amrita Choudhury : Agree with Cheryl
14:00:17 From Sarah Kiden : Agree with Cheryl
14:00:38 From Justine Chew : @Jacqueline, so it doesn't sound like there's conflict.
14:01:51 From Jacqueline Morris : I don't think there's actual conflict, I think there's misunderstanding.
14:02:26 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh : Maybe properly translated
14:02:43 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : indeed
14:02:47 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Bye for now then
14:02:51 From ali almeshal : bye all
14:02:51 From Sarah Kiden : Thank you
14:02:52 From David Mackey : Bye all
14:02:54 From Bastiaan Goslings : thasnks
14:02:54 From silvia.vivanco : Bye all
14:02:58 From Jacqueline Morris : Bye. Thanks Alan
14:03:00 From Raymond Mamattah (ICANN67 Fellow) : Bye
14:03:03 From Nadira Al Araj : bye
14:03:04 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh : thanks everyone