10:47:15 From Claudia Ruiz : Welcome to the Consolidated Policy Working Group Call
10:48:49 From Joanna Kulesza : I need to step away from the computer for a bit - will be back in 15 mins
10:49:03 From Glenn McKnight, Foundation for Building Sustainable Communities : Hi All
10:49:07 From Michel TCHONANG : Hi all
10:49:46 From Etienne TSHISHIMBI : Hello
10:49:59 From Etienne TSHISHIMBI : all
10:52:22 From Evin Erdoğdu : Hello all, welcome.
10:54:17 From Etienne TSHISHIMBI : Can you call me so that I can follow the meeting in French +221774087480
10:55:11 From Claudia Ruiz : @Etienne, we are dialing out to you, thank you
10:55:21 From Priyatosh Jana : hi everyone.... greetings from India
10:57:19 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : Hi all. Can only stay an hour sorry. But will catch up on anything I miss as per usual. :)
10:58:20 From Hadia Elminiawi : Hi Maureen. ok
10:58:33 From Etienne TSHISHIMBI : Thank you @Claudia
10:58:35 From Holly Raiche : Welcome Paul
10:58:47 From Nadira Al Araj : Hi Paul good to see you here
10:59:51 From davekissoondoyal : Hello everyone
11:00:55 From Captioner - Shannon : Hello, do you see my captions okay?
11:01:34 From Javier Rúa-Jovet (ALAC) : hello to all
11:01:38 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : not in the zoom room no
11:01:44 From Internet Society of Puerto Rico : Saludos a todos / Hello to all.
11:02:27 From Alfredo Calderon (ISOCPR) : Hola @Javier.
11:02:40 From Vrikson Acosta : Greetings everyone
11:02:51 From Alfredo Calderon (ISOCPR) : Background noise!
11:03:12 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Yes it will be limited soon he won't speek long
11:03:27 From christopher wilkinson : There is some background babble.
11:03:32 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : he is finishing a function
11:03:32 From Claudia Ruiz : @alfredo, Olivier is in a noisy place for the moment
11:03:39 From Alfredo Calderon (ISOCPR) : OK!
11:03:40 From LizOr : problem is that we cant hear whats he's saying
11:03:54 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : just intro the Agenda
11:04:24 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : I thought Olivier was very clear considering the noise in the background.
11:04:40 From LizOr : Not for me...
11:04:43 From Jonathan Zuck : We’ll get there!
11:04:45 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : indeed Maureen call things considered
11:06:39 From laurin : Christopher I was just saying that SSR2 will likely be extended.
11:06:42 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : beeping?
11:07:04 From Alfredo Calderon (ISOCPR) : Dialing out tone!
11:09:35 From Evin Erdoğdu : PIR announces Ethos agrees to enter in a Public Interest Commitment (PIC) containing terms about price limits, the Stewardship Council, a Community Enablement Fund, and annual compliance reporting. Reference: https://www.keypointsabout.org/accountability
11:10:16 From Holly Raiche : Is the PIC part of the agreement - or voluntary?
11:10:37 From Holly Raiche : How is it ‘binding’?
11:10:57 From Jonathan Zuck : part of the contract @Holly
11:11:34 From Lutz Donnerhacke : Sorry,, I'm late
11:11:44 From Glenn McKnight, Foundation for Building Sustainable Communities : link to the webinar?
11:11:53 From Ines Hfaiedh : can we have the link to tomortow s webinar?
11:12:00 From Holly Raiche : @ JZ - even better - part of Spec 11!
11:12:07 From Jonathan Zuck : Yes
11:13:03 From Evin Erdoğdu : @Ines and all yes, I will circulate on the CPWG list.
11:13:30 From Glenn McKnight, Foundation for Building Sustainable Communities : No info on the ethos site on the webinar tomorrow
11:14:33 From Ines Hfaiedh : thank you Evin
11:14:38 From Holly Raiche : I think there is just real disappointment that a NFP can be turned into a profit making enterprise
11:14:39 From Glenn McKnight, Foundation for Building Sustainable Communities : JOhn can you please provide the link
11:14:47 From Alfredo Calderon (ISOCPR) : Tomorrows webinar - On Thursday, February 27 2020, from 15:00–16:00 EST (20:00–21:00 UTC), the Public Interest Registry (PIR), Ethos Capital, and the Internet Society (ISOC) invite you to a webinar 'The Future of .ORG: Community Engagement'. Participants will have the opportunity to ask questions during the Q&A portion.
INFO: https://www.keypointsabout.org/events
LIVESTREAM: http://livestream.com/internetsociety/orgcommunity (open captions)
PARTICIPATE IN CALL: https://pir.zoom.us/j/360446736 (closed captions)
11:15:03 From Evin Erdoğdu : Thanks Alfredo! :)
11:15:03 From Eduardo Diaz - NARALO : This is what I have: On Thursday, February 27 2020, from 15:00–16:00 EST (20:00–21:00 UTC), the Public Interest Registry (PIR), Ethos Capital, and the Internet Society (ISOC) invite you to a webinar 'The Future of .ORG: Community Engagement'. Participants will have the opportunity to ask questions during the Q&A portion.
INFO: https://www.keypointsabout.org/events
LIVESTREAM: http://livestream.com/internetsociety/orgcommunity (open captions)
PARTICIPATE IN CALL: https://pir.zoom.us/j/360446736 (closed captions)
https://pir.org
https://internetsociety.org
https://ethoscapital.com
11:15:40 From Holly Raiche : That question is really at the heart of the issue
11:16:22 From davekissoondoyal : It is more fiduciary interests rather than public interests
11:16:36 From Holly Raiche : What terms limit registrants to’ being good’
11:17:19 From Jonathan Zuck : @Holly, we only need them to be good to the DNS. Good to the public is too subjective.
11:18:02 From Holly Raiche : So what is ‘good to the DNS”
11:18:20 From Greg Shatan : Nothing limits registrants to being good now. Is there a reason to think registrants will be less good if PIR’s ownership changes?
11:18:22 From Holly Raiche : Another good question
11:18:42 From Javier Rúa-Jovet (ALAC) : <Question> what (besides profit) could Ethos not be able to do as a “non-for-profit” that it will be able to now do?
11:18:48 From Holly Raiche : @ Greg - just replying to what is being said
11:19:34 From Greg Shatan : Javier, are you asking about PIR rather than Ethos?
11:20:09 From Javier Rúa-Jovet (ALAC) : yep
11:20:11 From Javier Rúa-Jovet (ALAC) : sorry
11:20:21 From davekissoondoyal : Meaning that PIR had no plans up to now and now Ethos has come as a saviour
11:20:39 From Holly Raiche : But is it a ‘savior’?
11:22:28 From Humberto Carrasco : hello everybody
11:22:35 From Humberto Carrasco : apologise for being late
11:23:15 From Greg Shatan : PIR could not have any plans for significant investment in itself, because all the surplus was earmarked for ISOC.
11:25:00 From Holly Raiche : I think the underlying question - what do you mean by ‘successful’ and in what terms is that achieved
11:26:42 From Holly Raiche : The problem with PICs in peoples’ minds are those that are not enforceable and leave a sour taste in the mouth about PICs
11:27:44 From Holly Raiche : Following Greg - the implication is that some profits go to expanse and only a set amount to ISOC???
11:28:19 From Javier Rúa-Jovet (ALAC) : good point on demonstration of harm for standing
11:29:01 From Greg Shatan : @Holly, profits are what is left after expenses are paid. This profit (aka surplus) has been paid entirely to ISOC every year.
11:29:30 From Holly Raiche : part of that issue - the value of the brand as a NFP
11:30:19 From Holly Raiche : Thanks Greg - next question - so marketing and expansion are the mission
11:30:28 From Jonathan Zuck : Ideally
11:31:03 From Holly Raiche : Will the PICs pick up the social responsibility aspect?
11:32:18 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : just a few Roberto ;-)
11:33:13 From Jonathan Zuck : @Holly, again, people’s notion of social responsibility is different. A sight devoted to Anarchy could easily argue that they are being socially responsible and advocating “freedom,” etc. We can’t, and shouldn’t, regulate that.
11:34:53 From Holly Raiche : @ JZ - very true - and Roberto’s issue is the more important one
11:36:04 From Holly Raiche : Therein lies the rub……
11:37:26 From Jonathan Zuck : or at least MORE issues
11:37:29 From Glenn McKnight, Foundation for Building Sustainable Communities : Greg's sense of humour went over the heads.
11:38:31 From Holly Raiche : @ Glenn - the fact that people didn’t laugh is a function of being muted - not that they didn’t get it
11:39:16 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Yup he makes me smile all the time
11:39:20 From Holly Raiche : So the question is how to preserve that mission amongst staff
11:40:11 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Thanks very much indeed!
11:40:15 From Greg Shatan : Holly — good point. New ownership can change the atmosphere and much more within a company.
11:40:19 From Evin Erdoğdu : Thank you, Paul and Jon, for joining the At-Large CPWG!
11:40:33 From Nadira Al Araj : Thank you Jon and Paul
11:40:57 From davekissoondoyal : Thanks Jon and Paul
11:41:13 From Jonathan Zuck : That was for another topic
11:43:29 From Holly Raiche : @ Hadia - the decision making chart was very helpful in that regard
11:48:23 From Holly Raiche : Almost back to the Privacy Proxy service?
11:50:27 From Holly Raiche : Lovely to hear that from Graeme
11:50:50 From Jonathan Zuck : Graeme is pretty honest and thoughtful
11:51:05 From Justine Chew : Because everyone wants to have their say, and it took/takes 2 years to sort out all these?
11:51:10 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Good to see agreement developing though
11:52:17 From Holly Raiche : Maybe that identifies why the two years…..
11:53:26 From Jonathan Zuck : To paraphrase Shakespeare, brevity is the soul of Justine!
11:53:49 From Jacqueline Morris ISOC-TT : That is appreciated.
11:54:10 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : Olivier always makes me feel inadequate as a meeting coordinator owing to the extreme conditions in which he finds himself and can still run a virtual meeting so efficiently.. I am impressed!!
11:54:41 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Ahh OCL is a very talented gentleman
11:56:02 From Javier Rúa-Jovet (ALAC) : yesterday
11:56:42 From Javier Rúa-Jovet (ALAC) : yesterday’s single purpose call was definitely interesting!
11:57:14 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Indeed JZ that was a serious concern to me as well
12:00:42 From Evin Erdoğdu : Please take a few minutes to provide valuable input via the At-Large GeoNames Survey:
https://forms.gle/r4jKyCzWtAXXdX3o7
12:00:48 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : POINT of Order please
12:00:49 From Javier Rúa-Jovet (ALAC) : +1 JZ
12:01:28 From Alan Greenberg : There is a QUEUE!
12:01:33 From Holly Raiche : At the end, if we don’t agree AS ALAC, that is all we can say
12:01:38 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : Have to go now, sorry. great work, team.
12:02:56 From Evin Erdoğdu : Thank you, Maureen
12:04:15 From Javier Rúa-Jovet (ALAC) : +1 @CLO
12:04:36 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : yes if is indeed a gross misrepresentation
12:04:55 From Javier Rúa-Jovet (ALAC) : +1 @Alan
12:05:17 From Holly Raiche : Could we please move on…
12:05:49 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : well said Alan
12:06:21 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : The score cards are a useful tool
12:06:28 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : and appreciated
12:06:39 From Holly Raiche : And they are a valuable way to try to develop positions - or discover that we can’t reach consensus
12:06:46 From Jonathan Zuck : Exactly. We just need to participate. These scorecards are excellent as a tool for consensus building
12:06:50 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : The scorecards are excellent
12:07:00 From Alan Greenberg : Putting strong, not necessarily fully supported statement on the scorecard *IS* a dandy way to get a discussion going!!!
12:17:18 From Holly Raiche : I’l like to have a read first
12:20:26 From Hadia Elminiawi : Totally agree
12:20:38 From Filina Natalia : +1 Justine
12:21:24 From Holly Raiche : It is useful, however, to see what other regions are doing
12:23:00 From Holly Raiche : +1 Hadia
12:24:18 From Evin Erdoğdu : Thank you for this presentation, Hadia. 2 presentations in one CPWG meeting!
12:25:39 From Holly Raiche : Very good point o
12:25:39 From Sebastien Bachollet : How many RALOS are?
12:25:40 From Holly Raiche : CL
12:25:41 From Nadira Al Araj : +1 to Olivier on RALO's comment (both APRALO and AFRALO)
12:25:52 From Justine Chew : It would be SOME countries within APRALO :)
12:25:55 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : +1 NAdira
12:26:13 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : it could even be a joint comment --- showing inter-RALO coordination/collaboration?
12:26:28 From Holly Raiche : APRALO has many ‘regions’ - Middle East, SE Asia, Asia, the Pacific Islands…
12:26:51 From Holly Raiche : So yes, there will be an APRALO cll today - I”llbring this up
12:26:59 From Holly Raiche : call
12:27:28 From Justine Chew : Satish has put in on the agenda for the APRALO Monthly call
12:27:29 From AK oloyede : APrALO and AFRALo
12:27:41 From Holly Raiche : Thanks Justine
12:27:51 From Ines Hfaiedh : Sure
12:27:57 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : sorry I am dropped from the call at present :-(
12:28:06 From Hadia Elminiawi : Thank you all
12:28:29 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Thanks Hadia
12:28:36 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : Thanks Hadia!
12:29:27 From Lutz Donnerhacke : Go to https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/ssr2-review-24jan20-en.pdf and skip to page 22. Please
12:29:42 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : back on
12:30:32 From Holly Raiche : So our main concern, the fact that ICANN Org thinks everything has been completed - importantly a view NOT shared by the reviewers. And maybe tie in to CCRT?
12:30:43 From Jonathan Zuck : exactly
12:31:05 From Holly Raiche : And the big question - why does ICANN Org think completion has happened?
12:31:39 From Lutz Donnerhacke : The interesting Point is, that almost all recommendations are "procedural" and "follow rules", not technical
12:31:58 From Jonathan Zuck : yes. Its’ about having a methodology not dictating one
12:32:15 From laurin : Yes that was the teams key point.
12:32:57 From laurin : eg what Security Standard you choose can matter but key is you have one.
12:33:01 From Lutz Donnerhacke : Alan found some truly diplomatic words, it's far from "too strong"
12:33:09 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : Or is this a SYSTEMIC issue?
12:33:18 From Jonathan Zuck : It is
12:33:24 From Holly Raiche : So we need to raise that point particularly
12:33:31 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : and ATRT3 is also addressing thes matters
12:33:40 From Jonathan Zuck : that’s what I was going to raise
12:33:46 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : In ATRT2 this was a major issue too
12:34:09 From Lutz Donnerhacke : ICANN is simply personal politics, no a community.
12:34:36 From Justine Chew : Thanks @Alan
12:35:39 From Holly Raiche : Not all shepherds are competent to look after their sheep
12:35:46 From Justine Chew : So perhaps we should REPEAT our position in all our comments to the other Review reports and in advice to the Board?
12:35:57 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : shepherds are part of the solution as is a better and more transparent ongoing tracking of progress on (and prioritisation as well here) of implementation of Recommendations NOTING new definitions are now in play for what can constitute (from a details and data POV) of a Recommendation in future RT's
12:36:00 From Betty Fausta : +1 Holly ..
12:36:43 From Justine Chew : I'll give you half an hour @SeB :)
12:36:44 From avri doria : and the WS2 shepherds will remain involved during the implementation.
12:36:49 From Jonathan Zuck : Perhaps @Justine as we are considering doing just that with DNS Abuse. It’s almost as though it should be a standard “appendix” to ALL our comments
12:37:20 From Justine Chew : cool @JZ
12:38:31 From Sebastien Bachollet : Thanks @Justine
12:39:03 From Glenn McKnight, Foundation for Building Sustainable Communities : Thanks Laurin, we will speak later with Joanna
12:39:14 From Glenn McKnight, Foundation for Building Sustainable Communities : ie. NexGen
12:39:20 From Lutz Donnerhacke : (Commercial) Audits do not help. They typically get money only if the audited party pass...
12:39:32 From Glenn McKnight, Foundation for Building Sustainable Communities : we are almost ready for general comments to our document
12:39:48 From Evin Erdoğdu : Read the ICANN67 FAQ: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/icann67-faq-2020-02-24-en
12:39:50 From laurin : depends on who it your auditor. also better than nothing.
12:39:59 From Glenn McKnight, Foundation for Building Sustainable Communities : @lutz interesting comment on auditors
12:40:05 From Hadia Elminiawi : Thanks Evin
12:40:16 From Hadia Elminiawi : Thank you alan
12:40:24 From laurin : Lutz, I am very aware. big part of my research is on standards and audits.
12:40:30 From Claudia Ruiz : https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/icann67-faq-2020-02-24-en
12:40:45 From Lutz Donnerhacke : @Glenn: Just be careful how to write the audit contract.
12:40:49 From Holly Raiche : Maureen has left the call
12:41:16 From laurin : nevertheless the team thinks that orienting alongside accepted standards will make things simpler and provide structure.
12:41:27 From laurin : hope that helps?
12:41:32 From Glenn McKnight, Foundation for Building Sustainable Communities : @laurin I think Lutz is stating that the process isn't neutral but easily manipulate,
12:41:52 From Lutz Donnerhacke : laurin: Yes. at least for the SSR there are ISO and other external norms to follow.
12:42:29 From laurin : glenn, yes regularly that is totally true.
12:42:59 From laurin : better than nothing though. additional transparency might be needed.
12:43:22 From Jonathan Zuck : Yes, great point, Seb!
12:43:36 From laurin : thanks a lot for the comments, happy to follow up via email (etc)
12:43:39 From Lutz Donnerhacke : But that are "procedural" norms. It's sufficient to have more than two paragraphs on the required item. It does not have to have anything to do with the audited party. Often those paragraphs are copied from templates ...
12:44:04 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Bye for now then...
12:44:17 From Jonathan Zuck : REMINDER: PLEASE REVIEW AND COMMENT ON THE SUBPRO SCORECARDS.
12:44:33 From Glenn McKnight, Foundation for Building Sustainable Communities : Bye all
12:44:42 From laurin : yes, I am far from uncritical. those who are interested, let’s take to email.
12:45:00 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : finding anon conflicted time will be a challeng
12:45:08 From Betty Fausta : +1 Sébastien.
12:45:25 From Lutz Donnerhacke : +1 without Interpretation ...
12:45:29 From Dev Anand Teelucksingh : have to leave the call
12:45:38 From Evin Erdoğdu : Thank you all!
12:45:40 From Alfredo Calderon (ISOCPR) : Bye to all!
12:45:42 From davekissoondoyal : Thanks and bye to all
12:45:42 From Lutz Donnerhacke : It's a big miss, but ...
12:45:44 From Lutz Donnerhacke : bye
12:45:44 From Betty Fausta : bye all
12:45:45 From Hadia Elminiawi : Thank you all bye
12:45:50 From Filina Natalia : thanks all
12:45:51 From avri doria : thanks, bye
12:45:58 From Adrian Schmidt : bye!
12:45:59 From hanan khatib : thank you all
12:46:07 From Jacqueline Morris ISOC-TT : bye
