10:02:37 From Heidi Ullrich : Welcome, All.
10:03:28 From Laura Margolis .UY : Hello !
10:03:29 From Heidi Ullrich : I will be taking action items at: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/Action+Items%3A+2020-09-09+Unaffiliated+Individuals+Mobilization+Working+Party+Call
10:05:18 From Judith Hellerstein : Sorry for being late
10:07:05 From David Mackey : That’s a good way of expressing the relationship between individual member and the At-Large community
10:08:40 From Carlos Raul Gutierrez : fine with the agenda
10:09:09 From Laura Margolis .UY : +1 Carlos Raul
10:09:47 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Agenda is all ok with me, noting @Alan's point (which we can discuss as we go)
10:10:06 From David Mackey : +1 Cheryl
10:11:01 From Jonathan Zuck : good point!
10:11:24 From Silvia Vivanco : https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/governance/bylaws-en/#article12
10:11:32 From Silvia Vivanco : ICANN bylaws link above
10:11:40 From David Mackey : thanks Silvia
10:11:41 From Alan Greenberg : When we get to 3b, I need to note that the Bylaws are very explicit on this issue.
10:14:51 From Esther Patricia Akello : hello everyone - my apologies am late
10:15:05 From Laura Margolis .UY : LaCRALO now accepts individual users
10:15:06 From Silvia Vivanco : LACRALO accepts individual members now
10:15:14 From Silvia Vivanco : I will post the rules here
10:15:19 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : beat me to it Sylvia
10:15:22 From Bill Jouris : The Bylaws are explicit about membership in the RALOs. But this is a group which in not a *Regional* At Large Organization.
10:15:38 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : we are now uniform in the ability across the Regions Yes
10:15:47 From Carlos Raul Gutierrez : I may want to talk on LACRALO´s recent reforms
10:15:59 From Silvia Vivanco : https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=141885714&preview=/141885714/141886146/LACRALO%20Rules%20of%20Proceedure%20-%20Final%20draft%20%2016%20JULIO%20%5BREV%5D%5B1%5D-REVIEWED-bilingual%20comments_DP2SV%20%5B1%5D.docx
10:16:04 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : it has taken different ways of developing the mechanisms however but all good now
10:17:02 From Alan Greenberg : I am hearing clicking. Is it just me?
10:17:05 From Silvia Vivanco : LACRALO rules kindly see Section 3.- Those individuals participating on their own behalf, usually referred to as INDIVIDUAL USERS (Natural persons), shall:Be permanent residents of one of the Latin American and the Caribbean countries.Not be an accredited ALS member;Know and uphold LACRALO Operating Principles and Rules of Procedure (RoP), and the relevant ALAC standards.Subscribe to the LACRALO discussion mailing-list Be active in the local community of Internet end users, andRequest to join the ALS of Individual Users (see Article 4).
10:17:13 From David Mackey : @Alan I hear it too
10:17:32 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : yes there was that noise @Alan … sorted now
10:17:48 From Heidi Ullrich : Re the clicking, Adigo is working on it.
10:18:07 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : indeed @Carlos, well noted with the link from Sylvia above
10:18:27 From Silvia Vivanco : LACRALO individuals registered 11 up until now : https://atlarge.icann.org/individual-members/lacralo
10:18:50 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : indeed Silvia, and sorry for the typo of your name
10:19:02 From Silvia Vivanco : no problem CLO
10:19:49 From Silvia Vivanco : ICANN By-Laws:
(vii) Each RALO shall be comprised of self-supporting At-Large Structures within its Geographic Region that have been certified to meet the requirements of the RALO's Memorandum of Understanding with ICANN according to paragraph 4(i) of this Section. If so provided by its Memorandum of Understanding with ICANN, a RALO may also include individual Internet users who are citizens OR residents of countries within the RALO's Geographic Region.
10:19:55 From Nadira AL-ARAJ : the citizens are residence
10:20:19 From Silvia Vivanco : @Alan kindly note that By-Laws say individuals who are citizens OR residents
10:20:52 From Nadira AL-ARAJ : but if citizen living abroad then maybe that is why they choose residence
10:21:29 From David Mackey : +1 Roberto
10:22:04 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : voting is and *should be* a rarity where consensus is the key methodology, exactly @Roberto!
10:22:16 From David Mackey : +1 Cheryl
10:22:21 From Bill Jouris : _1 Cheryl
10:22:26 From Nadira AL-ARAJ : yes we do overestimating
10:22:44 From Maureen Hilyard : @Nadira - someone who is studying overseas for example but wants to be an unaffiliated member of their home region might be an example of citizen without being an actual current resident of the region
10:22:44 From Bill Jouris : Drat, that's supposed of be +1
10:24:52 From Silvia Vivanco : Kindly note that only 1 person can cast a vote per ALS, only the representative of the ALS
10:25:52 From Alan Greenberg : Yes, IF an ALS allows all their members to participate in votes, each ALS member is only a time part of that vote for their ALS.
10:26:00 From seun ojedeji : @Alan when you say voting is not relevant do you mean its not necessary to be added to individual members or that it should not be an issue if its added as a right to individual members or something else?
10:27:17 From Judith Hellerstein : IN Naralo the individual users nominate one person to vote their slate at the elections
10:27:27 From Judith Hellerstein : They re-elect this person each year
10:28:10 From Alan Greenberg : @Seun, currently some RALOs give a vote in indiv. some do not. I'm not speaking to that. All I am saving is that the issue of "double dipping" is not important because it already exists amongs aLASes and we cannot stop it. (that is a person could be a voting member of multiple ALSes)
10:29:26 From seun ojedeji : @Judith how its done in various regions will defer, i guess since this is a global rule we are trying to make we need to first establish the fundamentals. Should an individual member have a vote, i have not heard a yes or not on that
10:29:45 From Alan Greenberg : AP, NA and EU all do EFFECTIVELY the same thing but each uses a somewhat dif. mechanism.
10:30:17 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : indeed it is an existing right in most Regions
10:32:31 From Silvia Vivanco : ICANN By-Laws:
(vii) Each RALO shall be comprised of self-supporting At-Large Structures within its Geographic Region that have been certified to meet the requirements of the RALO's Memorandum of Understanding with ICANN according to paragraph 4(i) of this Section. If so provided by its Memorandum of Understanding with ICANN, a RALO may also include individual Internet users who are citizens or residents of countries within the RALO's Geographic Region.
10:32:34 From seun ojedeji : Alan on the point about double-dipping i agree with you on your explanation but in AFRALO for instance there are other motivations which is to encourage individual members to join an ALS instead but ofcourse that will have to change going forward
10:32:53 From Judith Hellerstein : unaffiliated individuals make a choice to not join an ALS. They prefer to remain unaffiliated and individual, and that should remain their right
10:32:59 From Caleb Ogundele : +1 Seun
10:33:11 From Silvia Vivanco : NOTE “ a RALO may also include individual Internet users who are citizens or residents of countries within the RALO's Geographic Region”.
10:34:09 From Bill Jouris : @Judith, not necessarily. They may simply be unaware of the A:Ss. I certainly wasn't aware, for my first 3 years in ICANN. (But maybe I'm exceptionally oblivious.)
10:34:43 From Bill Jouris : Roberto, close enough
10:35:06 From Judith Hellerstein : There are many people who know about other groups but choose not to join them because then they have to vet their opinion through the appointed rep or head and many choose not to do that
10:35:31 From Judith Hellerstein : Also in many cases there is not ALS in their city/state
10:35:36 From Filina Natalia : hello all, my apologies for the being late
10:35:36 From Roberto : Thanks @Bill - we can also continue the discussion on the mailing list, as this can be an important point
10:36:03 From Silvia Vivanco : Additionally, each RALO MOU includes articles related to the ability to include individuals within their respective RALOs.
10:36:05 From Judith Hellerstein : @bill there may not have been an ALS in your area
10:37:14 From seun ojedeji : If all we will be doing is giving all individual members one vote equivalent to a single ALS vote as is being done in some RALOs, then it will be good to hear how that has motivated individual members in those RALOs to participate as i don't think that weight is of significance.
10:38:04 From Filina Natalia : @Judith exactly +1 @Seun
10:39:26 From Alan Greenberg : Could we invent an entirely new structure to be part of At-Large, outside of the RALO structure? Sure we could. But I think we would have STRONG opposition both form At-Large and perhaps at the Board level. So who is it that would be STRONGLY fighting for it?
10:39:41 From Gopal : Suggestion On Voting: There are two types of votes "Single Vote" and "Block Votes". We can fix weightage to the "Block Vote" based on the region. - Dr. T V Gopal, Professor, Department of Computer Science and Engineering, College of Engineering, Guindy Campus, Anna University, Chennai,India
10:40:32 From Bill Jouris : @Alan, My mistake. I thought that was exactly what we were trying to do here. Apologies
10:40:37 From Nadira AL-ARAJ : @seun, I’m an member of ALS and currently not part of their leadership I’m also part of the mailing list of APRALO but I’m not unaffiliated member. my internet to learn and give back to the community
10:40:41 From Caleb Ogundele : If they should be subjected to RALOs
10:41:02 From Silvia Vivanco : A key concept that runs through the MOUs and ICANN Bylaws is the idea that there is one RALO per region and the RALO is the main coordination point in that region.
10:41:26 From Caleb Ogundele : I feel individuals should be subjected to RALOS
10:41:54 From Alan Greenberg : I was the first indiv. member and would be happy to say why I did it and maintained it since.
10:41:58 From Bill Jouris : My apologies all, for my misunderstanding sending us off on this side path.
10:42:13 From seun ojedeji : @Nadira good and you believe that having no vote as an individual hinder your participation in some ways?
10:42:38 From Judith Hellerstein : @seun, Bill Jouris, David Mackey, and Alan Greenberg are both unaffiliated and they have been participating as full members
10:43:09 From Alan Greenberg : Membership of a mailing list alone does not make you a member of the RALO.
10:43:15 From Filina Natalia : I really do not see any obstacles for members of our structures to participate in the work personally. As well as the presence/absence of voting rights. I know a lot of silent individuals who have the right to vote. And I also know active members for whom membership in one of the ALS is an entrance ticket in At-Large
10:43:18 From seun ojedeji : @Alan good, it will be good to hear how having a vote has motivated you to continue to participate as individual member ;-)
10:43:29 From Nadira AL-ARAJ : @Seun, individual voting is no issue because it happens to vote for positions
10:43:53 From David Mackey : +1 Judith
10:45:04 From Sarah Kiden : +1
10:45:06 From seun ojedeji : Right @Nadira i certainly agree with you, i think the challenge is more about engagement and that engagement needs to be applied to both the RALOs and individual members equally
10:45:57 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : it should be the same motivation(s) for individual activities and motivations to engage for members *of* ALSes… everyone usually acts as themselves even as that type of Membership there should be some parity here therefore for UIMs
10:46:08 From David Mackey : Well said Judith
10:46:42 From Judith Hellerstein : Thanks @david
10:47:04 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : +1 @JZ motivating participation is the ket here!
10:47:27 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : key
10:47:46 From seun ojedeji : So for me assigning a voting right to individual is cosmetics and IMO would not improve participation, getting them to participate through some form of engagement would be the to-do and i don't think we can set a global rule for that. Our outreach and engagement may need to be more inreach than outreach which i think this year strategy tends towards
10:47:46 From Maureen Hilyard : +1 JZ
10:47:47 From Filina Natalia : The case of Nadira is a Q to ALS and how ALS should/must to provide the info for the members and trying or giving the opportunity to interested members
10:48:19 From Esther Patricia Akello : agree with @Jonathan
10:48:30 From Nadira AL-ARAJ : curiosity what drive people to join. they follow different track particularly when they start as fellows or nextgen
10:48:34 From Jonathan Zuck : I don't think we disagree.
10:48:54 From Jonathan Zuck : Hmmm. Like? I feel a bit more like an addict at this point.
10:49:14 From Judith Hellerstein : I agree, it is just different tracks and some people are on one track and some on another
10:49:43 From Judith Hellerstein : But what jonathan says how to we get those who are on the fridges to come in and become more active
10:49:51 From Jonathan Zuck : have we ever polled the existing individual members to find out why they became involved? Lots of academics? Government? Alan, what brought you?
10:50:22 From Justine Chew : I participated in several GNSO PDP WGs long before I became an unaffiliated individual member of APRALO. Non-membership with At-Large isn't an impediment to participation, but membership with At-Large gives me access to influence a 'greater' voice to influence DNS policy from an individual end-user's perspective.
10:50:31 From Judith Hellerstein : My guess is that you have to give them small projects to get them motivated to spend more of their volunteer time on icann
10:50:35 From Nadira AL-ARAJ : +1 Roberto, once they learn what is done at at-large they might find themselves match of what they like
10:51:09 From Jonathan Zuck : Despite the optics, I'm FINE with travel and networking as a motivation. I just want metrics on participation in either policy or outreach.
10:51:44 From Nadira AL-ARAJ : I don’t think this working party need to discuss how to get those members
10:52:11 From Laura Margolis .UY : +1 @Nadira
10:53:00 From Jonathan Zuck : I feel like we've built a kind of bureaucracy that now needs to justify itself. Getting "elected" isn't really enough of a criteria for "benefits" or visibility.
10:53:13 From Judith Hellerstein : @jonathan, we have asked our individual members every few years if they wish to remain as individual members and many of them wish to continue. Some of them do drop out
10:53:39 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : some people are actual passionate about policy processes, we need to provide a good and predictable platform for engagement regardless of the specific(s) of a persons motivation that is our role here IMO
10:54:00 From Jonathan Zuck : +1 Cheryl
10:54:03 From David Mackey : +1 Alan
10:54:18 From Nadira AL-ARAJ : +1 Alan
10:54:38 From Judith Hellerstein : +1 alan
10:54:47 From seun ojedeji : @Judith right and same small project should be given to ALSes as well, i think trying to seperate individuals from ALSes when it comes to doing actual work may not be the right approach, after all the ALSes are individuals as well. We should just get to engage all our members equally and let people know that they can either be indivudual member or ALS member which is what i think Alan is talking about
10:55:58 From Jonathan Zuck : Alan, Cheryl, I'd love to hear your story of getting engaged in the first place.
10:56:09 From Judith Hellerstein : @ seun, we have done that exactly. When I ran the NARALO GA, I assigned people from ALSes certain tasks and that got them motivated. Several of them went on to take leadership roles
10:56:52 From Alan Greenberg : @Jonathan, glad to share, either the public version, or the private one!
10:57:20 From Jonathan Zuck : @Alan, now I'm even MORE interested
10:57:26 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : @JZ there is video from me on that for ICANN but I will share again at a time that suits
10:57:49 From Heidi Ullrich : The ALS MP slot is 1800 UTC
10:57:52 From Alan Greenberg : 18:00 UTC
10:58:30 From David Mackey : @Cheryl I’d love to see the video
10:58:31 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : if one of the slots is 1800 that does suit many across time zones
10:58:58 From Silvia Vivanco : Cheryls video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcOz4g_kvkY&t=8s
10:59:13 From David Mackey : @Alan I’d also like to hear about your public/private story too
10:59:21 From Silvia Vivanco : Link with CLO tube video above
10:59:28 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : it is from a public meeting some fossils were displayed on stage and interviewed by Brad White
10:59:33 From David Mackey : Thanks Silvia
10:59:38 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : we can find it I am sure
11:00:16 From Heidi Ullrich : EURALO also needs confirmation of its two RALO Members
11:00:16 From David Mackey : @Cheryl got it from Sylvia :-)
11:00:18 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : different one than Silvia lisyed
11:00:24 From David Mackey : oh
11:00:37 From Heidi Ullrich : Are Natalia and Clement the official EURALO reps ?
11:01:00 From Filina Natalia : Matthias too @Heidi
11:01:00 From Heidi Ullrich : Action Items and notes are at : https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/Action+Items%3A+2020-09-09+Unaffiliated+Individuals+Mobilization+Working+Party+Call
11:01:01 From David Mackey : Bye All :-)
11:01:05 From Jonathan Zuck : Perhaps ONE day it can be Slack or Loomio
11:01:08 From Alfredo Calderon : Bye to all.
11:01:10 From Judith Hellerstein : Bye all
11:01:12 From Maureen Hilyard : Thanks for a very productive meeting, Roberto. Good email discussions as well, team.
11:01:14 From Filina Natalia : thanks Roberto and all
11:01:16 From Silvia Vivanco : Bye all
