Gisella Gruber-White:Welcome to the ROP Definitions and Structure Drafting Team meeting on Wednesday 29 August 2012 at 1800 UTC
Gisella Gruber-White:Agenda: https://community.icann.org/x/xBAeAg
Holly Raiche:Hi Gisella - so where is the humming?
Holly Raiche:It's so nice to be here - for the call timing. So sorry CLO - my condolences
Rudi Vansnick:hi everybody ...
Rudi Vansnick:i'm also on the adobe audio bridge
Natalia Enciso:Hello everyone!
Carlton Samuels:Hi Rudi
Carlton Samuels:Hi Sala
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Hi all
Eduardo Diaz:Hola a todos!
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Hola Edwardo
Matt Ashtiani:hola, eduardo. como esta?
Eduardo Diaz:@matt: bien gracias
Matt Ashtiani:bien!
Gisella Gruber-White:Dev Anand Teelucksngh has joined the call
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:not true shall not be shot at all t will all come together perfectly :-)
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:Hello everyone!
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Hi Dev
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:can we have scroll capability on the doc please
Heidi Ullrich:Are you now able to scroll?
Eduardo Diaz:no
Heidi Ullrich:Try now, please
Eduardo Diaz:now, yes
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:now yes
Heidi Ullrich::)
Eduardo Diaz:What does ESA/DM means?
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:I see Hollythat makes sense
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:DS would be this team
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: I assume
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:Thank you Holly :)
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:Good idea Holly
Eduardo Diaz:I am sorry but I am not sure waht ESA is?
Eduardo Diaz:CAn someone tell me?
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:tat would be the Election Appoints
Eduardo Diaz:Thanks
Holly Raiche:elec tions, selections and appointments
Carlton Samuels:I think I was dropped!
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:@Eduardo - description of DTs were sent in the Summary; refer to the Table
Heidi Ullrich:We'll check, Carlton.
Eduardo Diaz:@sala: link?
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Framework is an ideal term Holly yes
Carlton Samuels:Thanks Heidi. Appreciate you request a ring for me
Carlton Samuels:Back!
Heidi Ullrich:Welcome!
Alan Greenberg:What is URL for template. Can't find it.
Eduardo Diaz:@sala: I got it?
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: my hand id up again
Heidi Ullrich:Will get it
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:@ Eduardo, open your DSDT email where I sent the Summary of the Joint Meeting
Gisella Gruber-White:Alejandro Pisanty has joined the adobe connect room
Alejandro Pisanty:Hi all, apologies for late arrival.
Heidi Ullrich:Template: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/At-Large+Rules+of+Procedure+Modification+Proposals+Workspace
Heidi Ullrich:I hope that is it!
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:That Summay includes all the links and describes the Drafting Teams
Heidi Ullrich:Cheryl is that it?
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Hola Alejandro
Alejandro Pisanty:Hi Cheryl
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Yes stage setting is very much our job Framework and Stage setting
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Scroll ability please
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:Yes the Introduction will be brief and the whereas can be hyperlinked to history
Gisella Gruber-White:Please remember to state your names when speaking
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:we can use one word like "history" which is hyperlinked to the history [whereas] and agree with Holly where penholders can do it
Carlton Samuels:@CLO: ON D & S: +1
Carlton Samuels:You took half of what I wanted to say!
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:@Carlton: that's why I don't put my hand up anymore. I jus tthink it & Cheryl says it
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:The reason why I used sub-committees within ALAC RoP was because ALAC refers to the principal on committee so when we used sub committee was to refer to the ALAC sub committee
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:we can easily differentiate ALAC sub committee from other sub committees in other parts of ICANN and CLO's comments are critical as we factor this in the Defitions section
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:we have Sub Committees yes Sal we always will but they are a different beat to a Work Group etc., and they can be either Standing, or AdHoc or Topic/ Action based
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:Agreed
Gisella Gruber-White:Jacqueline Morris joined the Adobe Connect room
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:the TERM Sub Committe is used by ALL parts of ICANN we need to defin what it means for us
Eduardo Diaz:I do not think any of the teams are considering these policy procedures withing ALAC. I suggest we put that in another document.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:also needs simple language and ability to translate
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:yes CLO we can say sometihng like "The ALAC Sub Committee is...."
Eduardo Diaz:it's important.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Sala as I sid ALAC already has differenct TYPES of Sub Committee
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Standing and Other
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:Useful to be documented , but not in the RoP
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: Other may be Ad Hoc or Topic based etc.,
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Yes dev thus the need t use links to Annexes and supporting dicumentaion
Heidi Ullrich:Would a one page graphic of the ALAC policy advice development process be useful?
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:But work was done as part of the At-Large Improvements
Carlton Samuels:@Alan: On common sense: Agreed on need for simplicit and not everything will or should be in RoP. But common sense is not so common
Heidi Ullrich:Similiar to the PDP slide bottom left on this page: http://gnso.icann.org/en/ongoing-work/policy-activities.htm
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:in the Rules per se NO but linked to it as a reference Appendix
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:@Heidi - that could be useful
Carlton Samuels:I still believe the way the output from deliberations and votes - the process is delivered to the target (= the Board) is absolutely critical to outline!
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:such material could be part of the ALS Starter Pack
Natalia Enciso:Agree with Dev Heidi
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Definitin of a Stuy Group and the output of the equivelent of ab Issues Report IS the roll of out DT Holly absolutly
Carlton Samuels:I, for examle, is perfectly comfortable with a Chair we elect acting on the general sense of the committee and delivering an opinion, both informally and formally, to the Board Chair or a Board member on our behalf without coming back to me to ask for permission!
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:and we need to just reference the exisiting termenology acronyms look up NOW creatd by ICANN on the Web site not recreate it
Alan Greenberg:Example of confusing terminology: Consensus - means aof achieving agreement (or not) with various degrees. Consensus as in Consensus Policy - Implication is that it is generally agreed to by community but NOT really related to previous usage.
Carlton Samuels:Yep, I used the Jamaican 'is'!
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Historically we use some terms for mechanisms IN ALAC lets just work on those and see if there is any missing bits and define them latter
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:can you yell at us OCL
Carlton Samuels:CAnt hera rOCL
Darlene Thompson:Can't hear you!
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:AGREE ++++ with OCL
Carlton Samuels:Still not hearing a word!
Heidi Ullrich:Carlton, Olivier is much more clear now. Are you not able to hear him?
Darlene Thompson:Nope
Alan Greenberg:CLear but very low
Carlton Samuels:No Heidi, I'm straining.
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:I was speaking directly into the mic
Heidi Ullrich:basically, Olivier cautioned against being too strict in the rules.
Carlton Samuels:Aaah, we're agreed!
Carlton Samuels:Especially with respect to a Chair acting on our behalf
Alan Greenberg:zPlease capture those words from Cheryl - mechanisms include but are not limited to and give examples. at 47 minutes after the hour
Natalia Enciso:I have to leave earlier, have a doctor appointments. Will listen to the audio later. Take care you all.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:take care Natalia
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:+++ thanks Cheryl
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Did I mis many points on what you said OCL
Carlton Samuels:BYe Natalia
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:Just that we should be careful about not turning the RoP into a book. Let's stick to a lean document. Internal procedures on running day to day business should be guidelines rather than RoP material
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:the other DT's have not used sanbox much Holly their deliberations tend to be in reports from their meetings at this stage this is one of the reasons we now gave all DTs a sandbox to note development of things before capture outputs in the min template
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:yup OCL LEAN
Alan Greenberg:Heidi, Matt, It would be helpful if the document we are referring to as the "template" had that word in its title - allows search to work. Also, that page is hung off of the DSDT workspace and I thought it wasa general RoP page.
Rudi Vansnick:may i ask where we are in the agenda of this call ... i'm really lost
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:agreed Olivier - lean document, day to day business should be guidelines
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:yep absolutly
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:Holly can we also bring up the Draft in the Pen Holder section so we can discuss headers in our structure?
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:for example we might want to refer to email lists and the Wiki (in terms of online tools for communication) somewhere in our Sec A
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:call dropped
Eduardo Diaz:The wiki is a great tool but it is becoming more dificult to find all this stuff.
Heidi Ullrich:Alan, staff will add the word "template" so it can be found through a search
Jacqueline A. Morris:wait - another wiki space? I'm totally lost in that space nowadays
Heidi Ullrich:We'll also post it in a prominent place on the ROP WG page and put it it in the weblinks pod to the left.
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:can i s[peak?
Matt Ashtiani:@ Alan - https://community.icann.org/x/H4AoAg
Heidi Ullrich:Jacqueline, not another. Just renamed :)
Jacqueline A. Morris:When I saw the Sandbox link, I thought it was a practice with the wiki space, not an "official" workspace... looking at it for the first time now!
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:One thing I have leanrt from my colleague Chairing the GNSO was that the huge number of rules and the GNSO council's propensity to make more rules for everything, is a factor of stress rather than a relief for the Chair. We reach the point where rules hinder daily business
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:yep we have ti Keep It Simple
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Sala asked for a different space to load up I think
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:Different link Matt
Carlton Samuels:I need to run along. Duty calls
Carlton Samuels:Bye to all!
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:Bye Carlton
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Bye Carlton
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:Bye Carlton
Matt Ashtiani::-)
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:Please pull up the Pen Holders space as well which is within the sandbox
Matt Ashtiani:Good bye, Carlton.
Matt Ashtiani:https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/At-Large+Definition+and+Structure+Drafting+Team+Membership
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:no
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:the dsdt
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:sandbox
Matt Ashtiani:https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/At-Large+Definition+and+Structure+Draft+Team+Sandbox
Heidi Ullrich:We could link the sandboxes to the template page
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:yes pull it up please
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:that might help Heidi
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:scroll right to the top
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:so we can all see
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Alan has hand up still Holly
Rudi Vansnick:too many documents are circuling around and i'm afraid many of us are lost in what is relevant and which content should be disgarded
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:ok will send what should be disregarded etc
Jacqueline A. Morris:Rudi - +1
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Absoltely Alan
Jacqueline A. Morris:Alan - +1
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:the ssumption is that we are all checking the wiki weekly
Jacqueline A. Morris:Sala - that was definitely a really poor assumption - I checked the wiki, but didn't know about all of the other new additional spaces, so could not check them
Alan Greenberg:Matt, note that the template page is still hanging off of the DSDT page. Even if it is too late to move it (not a clue if it is), it needs a pointer from higher in the hierarchy.
Rudi Vansnick:can we please redress all wiki stuff in such a way there is only ONE space where all info on this job can be found ?
Heidi Ullrich:You should all be able to scroll on your own.
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:Thanks Heidi
Rudi Vansnick:LOL her voice is recognised by almost 90% of the internet world ;-)
Rudi Vansnick:what about the items we had discussions on ?
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:use the maiing list at this stage
Jacqueline A. Morris:Cheryl - +1. can we put a poll for EACH item that is up for agreement? The NomCom wiki works like that
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: Yes there is WAY to much in the Sandbox take stuff from it and anything else like a sub set of what Holly pu up at the start of the meeting tat belong to this DT which IS partly in the Sandbox but is also in synch with the Master Tempate tae that to the mail list and ask if any of us have comments sure as an AI
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:JAM the definitions are all just draft...
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: but not ready for consencuc yet
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:Thanks Holly
Rudi Vansnick:in Europe it is already late evening ;)
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:I was asking for Headers consensus on Headers for the skeletal draft limited to our drafting instructions;
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:not on definitions etc
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:thanks Holly
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:No comments
Eduardo Diaz:motion to close the meeting
Gisella Gruber-White:Next meeting for 90 minutes?
Eduardo Diaz:Adios
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro:Vye
Rudi Vansnick:bye
Heidi Ullrich:Bye all!
Alan Greenberg:bye all
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:Thank everyone, bye!
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:bye
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