Zoom chat: 2021-11-17 At-Large Consolidated Policy Working Group (CPWG)

00:18:21 Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org: To follow along with the RTT: https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=ICANN [streamtext.net]
00:20:10 Holly Raiche: Thank makes sense - IDNs are a topic that Satish is involved with
00:20:38 Harold Arcos: Hello everyone,,, sorry for being late,,
00:21:31 Greg Shatan: Hello everyone, sorry for being later than Harold.
00:21:43 Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org: To follow along with the RTT: https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=ICANN [streamtext.net]
00:22:06 Harold Arcos: simultaneously we need to attend LAC ReadOut post Icann72, right now,, thanks for understand
00:22:12 Abdulkarim Oloyede: yes EPDP on IDN shall have a presentation on 24th
00:22:52 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: That 60 day lock is a safety measure. Without it, a thief can move a stolen domain name through multiple registrars.
00:24:25 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: exactly
00:24:34 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: It also solves the problem if bad payment methods if a charge to a credit card is rejected outside the AGP.
00:25:00 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: I poll as a yes
00:27:42 Roberto Gaetano: I lowered my hand because Michael is saying what I wanted to say, and probably in a much better and comprehensive way
00:28:49 Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond: fantastic to hear this from people who were there
00:28:55 Chokri Ben Romdhane: Great @Michael
00:29:05 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: that may be useful for the team
00:29:54 Pari Esfandiari: the page disappeared and I could not vote.
00:30:48 Maureen Hilyard: It was great to get the clarification before the vote
00:31:04 Chokri Ben Romdhane: yes very helpful thank you @Emily
00:32:01 Abdulkarim Oloyede: I can't vote on mobile
00:32:10 Sivasubramanian M: I said No, it didn't clearly select the no button.
00:32:26 Sivasubramanian M: But will stay with the decision of the WG
00:32:50 Lutz Donnerhacke: Hi, I managed to join
00:32:50 Greg Shatan: I would support a shorter lock, but not 60 days.
00:33:04 Emily Barabas - ICANN Org: Just in case it’s useful to have in writing — here’s a brief summary of the topic:
00:33:05 Emily Barabas - ICANN Org: While not mandated in ICANN policy, some Registry Operators have provisions in their Registry Agreement that require a 60-day inter-registrar transfer lock after the initial registration of a domain name AND/OR after a successful inter-registrar transfer. Note: This should not be confused with Change of Registrant requirements where a “material change” of name or email address will also lock the domain against inter-registrar transfers for 60 days following the Change of Registrant, if the registrant does not opt-out of this lock. Some TPR working group members have noted that this practice of post-domain creation locks or post inter-registrar transfer locks are not consistent across the industry, which may be confusing for registrants. Some TPR working group members believe that the working group should recommend that the Transfer Policy include requirements for the 60-day lock after initial registration, although the working group is still discussing the rationale for doing so.
00:34:15 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: Creditcards aren't the only methods of payment.
00:34:59 Alan Greenberg: @John, true, but other means generally are credit accounts where normal business practices cover the registrar.
00:36:18 Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org: @Greg Shatan - your line is hard to understand
00:36:26 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: @Alan Yep and bank transfers are also a part of the payment chain.
00:36:30 Michael Palage: yes audio is bad
00:37:03 Roberto Gaetano: @Greg take the bari off your mouth when speaking
00:38:03 Alan Greenberg: But 52% say YES! Why???
00:38:12 hadia Elminiawi: apologies for joining late
00:38:32 hadia Elminiawi: better
00:39:07 Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org: To follow along with the RTT: https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=ICANN [streamtext.net]
00:39:23 Steinar Grøtterød: There will be other questions i the poll re the period (number of days)
00:39:25 Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond: domain tasting was outlawed a while ago
00:40:05 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: Wasn't outlawed as such but a cost was added. Over 1 million .COM domain names were tasted.
00:40:12 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: 1 Billion.
00:41:49 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: The 60 day lock prevents an orchestrated attack on registrars using iffy payment details.
00:42:26 Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond: This is increasingly sounding like the Brexit vote :-)
00:42:46 Jonathan Zuck: Exactly! A "NO" vote is a vote for the status quo
00:42:52 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: Does that mean that the CPGW will vote to leave ICANN? :)
00:43:24 Bill Jouris: Someone has an open mic
00:43:48 Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond: I think that's Cheryl's "other" meeting which has leaked into this meeting
00:43:59 Jonathan Zuck: A disturbance in the force...
00:44:20 Jonathan Zuck: Yes
00:44:26 Holly Raiche: What abut discussion of a different time instead of 60 days?
00:44:50 Maureen Hilyard: +1 Holly
00:44:53 Bill Jouris: Third time's the charm!
00:45:10 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: thanks for allowing chat back up for mobile app connection
00:45:16 Holly Raiche: Maybe first - in favor of any time - and then how many days??
00:45:56 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: @Siva That's not Domain Tasting.
00:45:57 Greg Shatan: Can we take a poll on whether to repeat question 1?
00:46:14 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: domain tasting was a very important issue Alan can speak to the details
00:46:43 Maureen Hilyard: 60 days vs another number of days?
00:47:08 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: @Cheryl If you want the stats and history, it is covered in a chapter of the Domnomics book. You can read the chapter on Amazon for free.
00:47:09 Alan Greenberg: 60 days vs no lock!
00:47:30 Alan Greenberg: It's amazing how much actual knowledge affects outcomes!
00:47:43 Maureen Hilyard: +1 Allan
00:48:13 Lutz Donnerhacke: so we have tie now. One vote in favor, one against
00:48:31 Sébastien Bachollet: No way Alan ;)
00:49:28 Lutz Donnerhacke: expired had a retention period ...
00:51:55 Gopal Tadepalli: Greetings. I am sorry for joining late. - Dr. T V Gopal, Professor, Department of Computer Science and Engineering, College of Engineering, Guindy Campus, Anna University , Chennai, INDIA.
00:52:27 Raymond Mamattah: Please I think we have to explain the questions well before the vote so people don't vote as was the case in the first question.
00:53:15 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: It stops domain name theft with domain names being washed through various registrars.
00:53:29 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: +1 Alan
00:53:56 Roberto Gaetano: +1 Alan
00:54:11 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: Best redo the vote now that it has been explained in simple terms.
00:54:13 Holly Raiche: I agree with the suggestion that we have discussion BEFORE a vote
00:54:37 Jonathan Zuck: Ironic that the same folks who want this lock didn't want losing registar confirmation from the registrant...
00:54:50 Maureen Hilyard: Is the 60 days an issue? Could the lock period be reduced?
00:55:22 christopher wilkinson: Leaving the call. Exceeding sensible screen time. Thanks and Regards
00:55:51 Chokri Ben Romdhane: seems that @Emily clarification impacted poll responses
00:55:53 Alan Greenberg: Agree with Lutz
00:55:54 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: +1 Lutz
00:56:25 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: Do the people voting know actually understand what the problems are with domain theft?
00:56:44 Judith Hellerstein: +1 alan that was what it was thinking. I also voted yes
00:57:24 hadia Elminiawi: the audio is bad
00:57:30 Holly Raiche: That is why we should have discussion FIRST
00:57:33 Roberto Gaetano: I agree with @Maureen - maybe 60 days is too long and a shorter period will get more consensus - or less opposition
00:57:54 Michael Palage: Much better
00:59:18 Michael Palage: So much for this being a quick call :-)
00:59:25 Chokri Ben Romdhane: @Jhon there is no gurantee that with the 60 days lock we will have 100 % secure transfert so need to make complicate more the process
00:59:53 hadia Elminiawi: +1 Maureen and Greg a period less than 60 days would protect against fraud, but not lock them
01:00:42 hadia Elminiawi: not lock registrants with the registrar for too long
01:00:51 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: @Chokri There's no such thing as a 100% secure system but time is the enemy of domain theft and it stops the registrar hopping tha the thieves use to to make it difficult to recover the stolen domain names.
01:00:59 Greg Shatan: Maybe we should vote again again...
01:01:31 Holly Raiche: PLEASE - Discussion first
01:01:43 Chokri Ben Romdhane: I personnally think that we have to secure the transfert mechanism and avoid to extend transfert period
01:03:46 Lutz Donnerhacke: opting out can be done using the same credentials, which used to illegally transfer the domain
01:03:55 hadia Elminiawi: opting out defeats the purpose
01:04:02 Roberto Gaetano: Exactly Alan - better to have a lever playing field for this issue
01:04:04 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: exactly @Alan
01:04:06 Michael Palage: +1 to Alan's comments
01:05:06 Lutz Donnerhacke: Compliance does only see the very hard cases, not the majority, which was solved directly
01:06:00 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: The lock should be compulsory.
01:06:30 Jonathan Zuck: Exactly. There are way TOO many "voluntary" rules for the registrars, at this point
01:06:52 Bill Jouris: +1 Jonathan
01:07:35 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: Some of the UDRP complaints on stolen domain names make specific reference to registrar hopping. The 60 day lock applied to all registrars would reduce the problem to iffy registrars.
01:08:06 Judith Hellerstein: +1 Alan
01:08:43 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: +100 Alan
01:08:57 Bill Jouris: Sometimes, cynicism is our friend
01:08:58 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: yup
01:09:10 Lutz Donnerhacke: It's this way. as Alan said
01:09:18 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: @Bill it is simply being realistic. :)
01:10:10 Alan Greenberg: 30% think the registrant (who could be a hijacker) should be able to opt out!
01:10:38 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: @Alan Sometimes I wonder if people actually understand the domain name business and its risks.
01:10:59 Lutz Donnerhacke: But the person was such a nice guy! Why should I become suspicious?
01:11:06 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: :)
01:11:12 Alan Greenberg: This does bring the concept of crowd-sourcing into question!
01:11:59 Jonathan Zuck: it does indeed. I suspect a more comprehensive briefing would help. I think we need our reps to recommend a position and justify it
01:12:29 Lutz Donnerhacke: On the other hand, the tech people are so ugly, and grumble every time
01:13:26 Daniel K Nanghaka: there are a number of positions in deliberation, the end user must trust the process
01:13:28 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: @Lutz Guess we're members of the Uncivil Society constituency. :)
01:13:56 Lutz Donnerhacke: I vote for a 12 months lock
01:14:10 Sivasubramanian M: abstained because there weren't enough options, for those who say no for the lock.
01:14:17 Lutz Donnerhacke: as long as I payed
01:14:32 Herb Waye: Hello everyone, just dropping in after the LACRALO Readout.
01:14:48 Roberto Gaetano: The point is that changing the number can affect the Y/N choice - some people might have voted N because 60d is too long
01:15:00 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: A 12 month lock would effectively kill a lot of the secondary market.
01:15:02 Alan Greenberg: Those who don't want a lock should abstain or not answer.
01:15:13 Judith Hellerstein: I voted to abstain as i am for a lock just not sure about the number of days
01:15:20 Lutz Donnerhacke: @John, very good
01:16:15 Gopal Tadepalli: Suggestion: Using the screenshots such as the one attached will help the discussion. - Dr. T V Gopal, Anna University, INDIA
01:16:53 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: @Lutz registries need those domain names. Without the secondary market, a lot of gTLDs would be much smaller.
01:17:16 Marita Moll: I agree with JZ's comment. Have a discussion before the question
01:17:43 Yrjo Lansipuro: Alan +1
01:17:49 Jonathan Zuck: Perhaps we should do a poll to see how many folks who have registered and transferred a domain name.
01:17:50 Pari Esfandiari: I agree with Alan strongly.
01:17:55 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: +++
01:17:59 Judith Hellerstein: Yes Alan I agree
01:18:04 hadia Elminiawi: +1 Alan we need to discuss first
01:18:05 Holly Raiche: +1 Alan
01:18:16 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: @JZ I've been regging and transferring doms for decades.
01:18:24 Roberto Gaetano: @JmcC - I don’t understand your point - during the transfer the DN is still registered, no pb therefore for the registry - or am I missing something?
01:18:33 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: well noted @Alan
01:18:48 Lutz Donnerhacke: Domain names should only be available by local authorities, nothing to do for companies... The ITU model: Each person one Domain.
01:18:52 Adrian Schmidt: Sorry I need to get to another meeting good discussion!!!
01:18:58 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: @JZ I also track regs and transfers at a domain name level for the gTLDs and some ccTLDs. That makes me a bit more cynical about the whole process.
01:19:23 Maureen Hilyard: 57% is a good indication of the temperature of the room for the team to take forward to their next meeting.
01:20:41 Maureen Hilyard: But with an explanation of the views that were raised.
01:21:29 Greg Shatan: These should be viewed as mere inputs to develop your presentation, and not as an output to be reported to the WG.
01:22:14 Maureen Hilyard: The experiences of the group were diverse as well during the discussion - both the good and the bad
01:22:47 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: @Lutz I remember when .IE was using that idiotic ITU one domain per person stupidity. :)
01:23:10 Jonathan Zuck: Yep
01:23:18 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: @Lutz It didn't work and kept the ccTLD small while more people went for .COM
01:24:36 Lutz Donnerhacke: you only need to make it mandatory 
01:24:50 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: @Lutz I took years for the ccTLD to overcome the damage but now it is far larger than the number of Irish regged .COMs.
01:24:54 Marita Moll: +1 Alan. We have to trust our reps and know that they have an indepth understanding. I am not getting that from list discussions..
01:25:49 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: @Lutz Making it mandatory is a great way to ensure that it will be bypassed. :)
01:26:36 Maureen Hilyard: @Steinar - The polls were definitely not a waste of time because I believe we have all learned a lot from the sharing and discussion as a result
01:26:43 Chokri Ben Romdhane: I personnaly apreciate what you did Steinar very useful to make cwgp members in the wg work evolvement
01:27:02 Lutz Donnerhacke: @John I'm from *.de not *.us.
01:28:18 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: @Lutz I know. :) The .US is a whole other story. Managed to map about 84% of .DE registrars to hosters.
01:30:10 Michael Palage: I agree the polls served their purpose in educating everyone on the issue - Thx Steinar for navigating that topic
01:32:15 hadia Elminiawi: I have nothing to report as well
01:36:25 Jonathan Zuck: Whatever happened to DAAR?
01:36:32 Holly Raiche: @ JZ - any report on DNS Abuse?
01:38:16 Holly Raiche: Thanks Evin
01:39:59 Chokri Ben Romdhane: شكرا
01:40:10 Pari Esfandiari: Thank you everyone.
01:40:12 hadia Elminiawi: Thank you all
01:40:20 Herb Waye: Take care everyone, stay safe and be kind.
01:40:23 hadia Elminiawi: شكرا شكرى
01:40:23 Alberto soto: Thanks, !!!!
01:40:39 Daniel K Nanghaka: thanks to you all
01:40:44 Hanan Khatib: see you next week
01:40:56 hadia Elminiawi: Thank you Alan
01:41:13 Chokri Ben Romdhane: @Hadia بالفعل لهذا اسمي شكري
01:41:19 John McCormac - HosterStats.com: Thanks and later all.
01:41:24 Evin Erdogdu - ICANN org: Thank you all :)
01:41:33 hadia Elminiawi: BYe
01:41:36 Roberto Gaetano: bye