Yesim Nazlar:Welcome to the At-Large Briefing on CCWG–Accountability Final Proposal in preparation for the ALAC final review and decision on ratification in Marrakesh Part II held on Thursday, 25 February 2016 at 12:00 UTC
Yesim Nazlar:Meeting Page: https://community.icann.org/x/eBKAAw
wafa dahmani:hi yesim
wafa dahmani:how are u
Yesim Nazlar:Hi Wafa!
Yesim Nazlar:Thank you, how about you?
Ron Sherwood:Good morning everyone
Yesim Nazlar:Good morning Ron!
Holly Raiche:Hi - I received a call (assume it was for a dial out - but noone was there - could someone dial me again please - thanks
Yesim Nazlar:sure!
Vanda SCARTEZINI:hi everyone, good morning, afternoon and evening to all!
Aída Noblia:good morning
Vanda SCARTEZINI:hola Aida como estas?
Holly Raiche:2
Holly Raiche:alan - are you just tired, or do you just have a cold?
Sébastien:Hello
Sébastien:I have a hard stop at 14:00 UTC and the last 15' I will be on audio only
Vanda SCARTEZINI:hi Sebastien..
Alan Greenberg:Tired. Anf so far no coffee
Aída Noblia:Muy Ben Vanda y tú . Gracias
sandra hoferichter:hi all
Harold Arcos:Hi all,
Harold Arcos:Yes,
Ariel Liang:the train has passed
Ariel Liang:Annex 5 can be downloaded here: https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/58721211/Annex%2005%20-%20FINAL-Revised.pdf?version=2&modificationDate=1456322097000&api=v2
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:It is a good move.
Siranush Vardanyan - APRALO:hi all, sorry for being late
Vanda SCARTEZINI:hi Sira
Yesim Nazlar:Welcome Siranush!
Siranush Vardanyan - APRALO:hi, Vanda
Siranush Vardanyan - APRALO:thanks, Yesim
Vanda SCARTEZINI:the last is very very important - but the words genereta some misunderstands
Holly Raiche:so far so good
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:Very good briefing.
Vanda SCARTEZINI:Janis, former director is now UN HR director. he may help a lot to not trasnpass the line
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:Good connection there, Vanda.
Vanda SCARTEZINI:hope he will be at our board+ former lunch this time
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:I will check Vanda.
Sivasubramanian M:ICANN might find itself in situations where HR organizations begin calling for exclusion of a few countries from participating in ICANN MS process
Holly Raiche:@ Siva-I'm sure that is why the wordingis wha it is - until there is some very careful research and thought, we would not want to give any idea that the ddocument creates any basis for actions under Human Rights
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:+1 Holly
Sivasubramanian M:That is a good position Holly
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:Slide should change no?
Holly Raiche:Next slide?
Seun Ojedeji:yeah i guess so
Sivasubramanian M:I come from a country where there is a story of a Cow whose calf was run over by the Prince's Car rang the bell to seek Justice and the King sentenced the Prince to death by the same manner.
Sivasubramanian M:ICANN needs a bell for eveyone to ring
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:Yes, this is the bell for everyone provided that they are materially affected.
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:no text on slide.
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:and judgment is binding.
Sivasubramanian M:If there is indeed such a bell, it is good Rinalia. I am not really suggesting that the Judicial process should be open to trivial or distractive demands on it, but at the same time, there are certain restrictions
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:Indeed, Olivier and it is extremely frustrating not to be able to do anything because the focus is process.
Vanda SCARTEZINI: yes, as former chair of reconsideration , was tough to analyze under bylaws and california law
Sivasubramanian M:The language of the IRP and Reconsiderations processes are such that there are barriers, and past the barriers, there are convenient interpretation of clauses such as "whether or not due process was followed"...
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:These are all good enhancements. Implication is that board capacity has to increase to address all the requests.
Vanda SCARTEZINI:@ rinalia, you right
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:BGC has a high case load. It is challenging in terms of time as it is.
Sivasubramanian M:The proposed enhancements point towards improvements, but the improvements are not significant enough
Rinalia Abdul Rahim::)
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:Ombudsman capacity also needs to increase. S/he will need staff.
Sivasubramanian M:Yes, Alan, the standards for determining whether a mistake was made or not are not high standards, the standards need to be elevated
Vanda SCARTEZINI:the selection of ombudsman will be key
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:keep going.
Holly Raiche:Agree with Vanda
Holly Raiche:Tha will be very interesting
Vanda SCARTEZINI:i am saying he need to be changed. is just his position will be more critical than today
Vanda SCARTEZINI:I am NOT saying sorry
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:I understood what you meant, Vanda.
Vanda SCARTEZINI:Holly are you mute?
Holly Raiche:I have a dial out - but can't be heard? Have I been muted?
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:We didn't hear you.
Vanda SCARTEZINI:yes we could not hear you
Yesim Nazlar:let me check Holly
Holly Raiche:I was worried about the Whois issue - the AoC seks o preserve the current Whois policy - which is being changed. Now I"m happy
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:You should be happy. Steve Crocker took it on as a personal mission to get that amendment made.
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:RT size may not be optimal.
Yesim Nazlar:@Holly: you're not muted on the bridge, please check your phone, maybe it's muted by mistake
Holly Raiche:I can imagine that Steve particularly would appreciate the issue with the current Whois policy
Vanda SCARTEZINI:21 is not workable size
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:Also, CCWG wanted unlimited participants, which would affect the effectiveness of the RT. That was later changed to observers.
Vanda SCARTEZINI:@rinalia - agree totally
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:I agree with you, Alan.
Holly Raiche:I think 'somewhat unwieldy' is a very tactful statement - if an understatement!
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:It is a live experiment of multistakeholderism ;)
Holly Raiche:Any chance of getting 'consumer trust and choice' back into the wording?
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:Need to get support and consensus within CCWG.
Holly Raiche:Something we should be asking for!
Seun Ojedeji:Lost audio
Yesim Nazlar:@Seun: would you need a dial out?
Seun Ojedeji:@staff can my line be redialed
Seun Ojedeji:thanks
Yesim Nazlar:sure, Seun!
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:It may be good if the ALAC could raise the issue and explain its point of view to the Board during Constituency Day Meeting in Marrakech to enhance the Board's understanding.
Vanda SCARTEZINI:good idea Rinalia
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:Affirmation of Commitments: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/affirmation-of-commitments-2009-09-30-en
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:Seun wanted to speak?
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:@Rinalia: the problem is that the US department of Commerce has provided an understanding that defies our own understanding. The AoC is quoted above: I'd ask ALAC members to make up their own mind on this
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:I know, I saw the response from Fiona.
Vanda SCARTEZINI:I beleive seun was only entered into the call again
Seun Ojedeji:@Rinalia no i just lost audio dialout and needed to be brought back in. Thanks for checking
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:Can one defy the US Dept. f Commerce understanding when the proposal is made for the US Department of Commerce?
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:Once the transition proceeds, you get a chance to change the rules through the empowered community. :)
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:@Rinalia: yeah right....
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:You have to believe in what you fight for, Olivier. :D
Olivier Crepin-Leblond::-p
Seun Ojedeji:But really i don't think the EC has the power to intiate a bylaw change
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:You could get the Board to initiate and then secure EC approval.
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:But you have to pass 2 hurdles: Get the Board to agree and then get the EC to agree.
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:Same set of hurdle to get an additional board member for the At-Large approved.
Seun Ojedeji:Hahahah....yeah thats a good example @Rinalia
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:If the pendulum has swung in this direction during the discussion of the proposal, it is unlikely that we would reach the threshold in the EC to change the bylaw in the way we want.
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:I fully expect that the At-Large Review will recommend a second board director for the At-Large, which goes to the Board as a recommendation, and if approved will require a bylaw change.
Seun Ojedeji:Actually i just hope that extra seat will still be possible after EC is in place (i am almost certain it may not, but i could be wrong and will be glad)
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:Then the EC will be invoked.
Aída Noblia:Muchas Gracias. De acuerdo
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:I also believe that with the great demonstration of parochial interests that we have seen in the CCWG, it is even less likely to ever have agreement from the community
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:And At-Large has to lobby the rest of the community.
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:there is a general revolt in the GNSO that ACs are given more power today because of the community powers which place them on the same level as SOs. the belief in the GNSO is that SOs should have more power than ACs as ACs are just *advisory*. We are in fact touching on the nerve of ICANN's balance of power. A very raw nerve indeed.
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:On the IRP panel, no arhuments on the skills required plus diversity, but the one stumbling block to good judgment could be failure to understand ICANN and the ICANN context.
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:arguments
Vanda SCARTEZINI:yes, measure will be challenging
Seun Ojedeji:Well it does not hurt trying what Rinalia has suggested. Lets put the CCWG proposal to a test and see if there is still any bit of MS left in it ;-)
Alan Greenberg:@Olivier - indeed!
Sébastien:I am now leaving Adobe but will stay on the phone
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:Despite the challenges, this is a good enhancement as it strengthens the accountability chains of board and community.
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:One World Trust came out with a report on accountability with a framework similar to what Jan Aarte Scholte (accountability expert advisor to CCWG) advocates. That framework can be used for assessing SO/AC accountability.
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:We ned a German interpreter :-)
Vanda SCARTEZINI:guess is jsut mute and unmute recorded in german
wafa dahmani:since i'm working in my office and rying to folloow the call at the same time i missed some parts of the the call I hope find the reconrding and the transcript later and i'm sure i will have some questions :)
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:I have to run in a few minutes for the Board OEC call.
Yesim Nazlar:@Wafa: The slides will be posted on the agenda
wafa dahmani:@Yesim thanks
Yesim Nazlar:@Rinalia: Thank you very much for your participation
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:Excellent briefing, as always Alan and company.
Yesim Nazlar:My pleasure Wafa!
wafa dahmani:@Rinalia OEC stans for ?
wafa dahmani:stands
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:Organizational Effectiveness Committee of the ICANN Board - it oversees organizational reviews like the one the At-Large is undergoing.
CHERYL Langdon-Orr:For any one who is familar with the Harry Potter series of books, there was a point where even evoking the words out loud :Strees Test 18
wafa dahmani:@Rinalia thanks
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:It used to be called Structural Improvements Committee.
wafa dahmani:so SIC
wafa dahmani::)
CHERYL Langdon-Orr:was like using the name Voldermort ;-)
Rinalia Abdul Rahim:Not anymore! :)
wafa dahmani:okkey
Vanda SCARTEZINI:too difficult to accept
Vanda SCARTEZINI:being in the GAC I would not accept this...
Vanda SCARTEZINI:GNSO will send a bullet to their own foot
Sivasubramanian M:Causes considerable imbalance
Vanda SCARTEZINI:we will be weaker ....
Sivasubramanian M:Or pepetuates and even reinforces the imbalances
Vanda SCARTEZINI:yes Siva.
Sivasubramanian M:We really don't have to worry, because such an unbalanced component of the proposal would not go through
Sivasubramanian M:How does one file a minority statement, please?
Vanda SCARTEZINI:Sebastien had a 12 slide?
Seun Ojedeji:@Siva only members and chatering organisation can file minority statement
Sivasubramanian M:Recommendation # 13 ( a.k.a) Compromise to the Compromise to the Compromise to the Compromise to the Compromise: Hold implemenation of WS 1 until after completion of WS 2
Vanda SCARTEZINI:thanks to ALAN + Cheryl + olivier and Sebastien to this very useful conversation... colleagues here really love the explanation even they are quite new to the issue.
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:@Vanda: thank you and it is great to see there is interest where you are Vanda!
Vanda SCARTEZINI:thanks to staff
Seun Ojedeji:Thank you Alan and to all the CCWG members
Holly Raiche:Thank you to all
Seun Ojedeji:Including the iana-issue chair ;-)
CHERYL Langdon-Orr:Thank YOU all ... Bye for now :-)
Vanda SCARTEZINI:yes. Olivier. we need to spread a word around htis is fundamental for the future
Seun Ojedeji:Bye for now
Ron Sherwood:Thank you all for a very worthwhile and informative presentation
sandra hoferichter:bye all!
Vanda SCARTEZINI:safe trip to MArrakech
Sivasubramanian M:Thank you Alan, and all
Kaili Kan:goodbye!
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:Thanks Alan for the reat slides!
Ariel Liang:thanks all!
Yesim Nazlar:Thank you everyone!
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:reat -> reat!!!
Aída Noblia:By everone. Thank you
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:reat ->> GREAT
wafa dahmani:bye
wafa dahmani:thank you all
wafa dahmani:for the great efforts
