Gisella Gruber-White:Welcome to the ESADT call on Monday 10 September 2012 at 1300 UTC
Gisella Gruber-White:Agenda: https://community.icann.org/x/DYYoAg
avri:Is this mtg open to non group members
avri:just checking
avri:i had never heard the group announced, so was not sure.
Alan Greenberg:All meetings are open as far as I nderstand
Yaovi Atohoun:I think we start the call
Silvia Vivanco:Hello everyone
Nathalie Peregrine:Dev Anand Teelucksingh has joined the call
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:Hello everyone!
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Hi Dev and Tiani
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:opps no J
Tijani BEN JEMAA:hi cheryl
Nathalie Peregrine:Hong Xue has joined the call
Hong Xue:hi.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Yes please Alan
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:re the link
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:but there will be no Rappouter
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:as a title a Chair ia Elected then 4 others from the ALAC are appointed (1 each from the other Regions) to form an ALAC Leadership Team (ALT)
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:I suspect Alan can respond to Roosevelt's points
Alan Greenberg:https://community.icann.org/x/9IAoAg for Duties and Metrics outcomes. Red as items that needed to be discussed again, and most were last meeting. Results of that meeting will be posted shortly.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:within the ALT it appears that 2 VC's will be recomended for appointment
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Roosevlt the style notes fore the NEW Rules also recommend we use [boxed out / highlighted] examples to ensure interpretation
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:of the rules is as clear and unambiguois as possible but IN 1 documenmt is my personal preference as well
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:YES Alan exaxtly
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:That was meant to be linked in the Agenda yes Alan
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:the Master Template
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:YES ALAN AGAIN why we nee simple yet elegant rules
avri:there may also be a set of general qualifications and some specific qualifications that are per role.
Alan Greenberg:Template wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/H4AoAg
Alan Greenberg:About Bylaw mandated "elections". If we felt VERY strongly about it, the ALAC could decide to request that the Bylaws be changed.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Agree with Yrjothe Criteria is being established in Duties and Metrics but the Criteria for some things like be ALAC to be selected to the ALAC Leadership Team can be reiterated in process (in terms of ratification required etc.,)
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/At-Large+Rules+of+Procedure+Modification+Proposals+Template+Workspace
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Section D2: PROCESS - ELECTIONS, SELECTIONS, AND APPOINTMENTSD1: Appointment of a ALAC Representatives to:Standing Committees of the ALACExComBudget and Financelist continues... ... .....AdHoc Committees of the ALAClist continues... ... .....ALAC Work GroupsALAC Study / Interest Groupslinks to Wiki spacesALAC Design/Drafting TeamsOther ICANN Groups and Activities external to the ALACD2: Election of the ALAC ChairD3: Selection to ICANN Board seat #15 (insert / link to section on this methodology and note the future opportunity to review and alter if desired and agreed by consensus)Dx: Other as discussed / decided by DT
Alan Greenberg:@clo that's what my shorthand link above pointed to... (ie there are not two templates - just one with two URLs!
avri:each speaker can end by telling what hands they see.
avri:I find the trend away from elections problematic.
avri:i think the issue is who votes: is it the ALAC for some thing, the RALOs for others and i hope the ALS for others.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Yes ( & 10 are huge
avri:but consensus means that few can pature as long as everyone is 'bullied' into silence.
avri:pature == capture
Yaovi Atohoun:I am disconnected
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:understood Avri but for most ALAC appointments the electorate is only 15 so if we have that dynamic of despote control happening then the ALAC at that time is broken IMO
Nathalie Peregrine:dialling you back Yaovi
avri:there is no reason to not do an ALAC vote on those things. despotic is strong, but not stepping on the strong personality's toes is sometime pervasive.
Nathalie Peregrine:Yaovi is back on
Yaovi Atohoun:I am back
avri:i know, but Alan said we have to get rid of thsi election stuff.
avri:and CLO said that elections take too much tme, we want to use consensus
avri:and i am not talkign descriptively (necessarily) but normatively.
Alan Greenberg:I said we should not REQUIRE that all posotions are elected. That does not preven an election.
Alan Greenberg:prevent
avri:a reacall when peopla are afraid of the strong personality?
avri:yes, but strong personality wins and ballots are the only way beyond that.
Alan Greenberg:As much as I like everyone to agree with me, a good ALAC will be one wherepeople are willing to put their own opinions forward. Perhaps to pursuade others and perhaps not to win each battle, but to speak up.
avri:i also thinkg the 2 year term for chair is a mistake. not only are 1 year the gernal trand in ICANN, but this requires that someown running for chair must be at the beginning of a term so they have 2 years to serve.
Alan Greenberg:@avri, duties and metrics has come down pretty strongly that th person must have possibility of serving for 2 years, not that they are guarenteed to be there.
Alan Greenberg:Only person who would not meet that is a person on their last year of a term-limited RALO appointment who with the NomCom person from that region just been named.
avri:so relect them every year. why is that so hard? of course they are allowed two terms, but why a 2 year term?
Roosevelt King:Hi all, I have to go in about 5 mins.
Alan Greenberg:not up on my screen - ;-)
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Can we perhaps ask the pen holders to draft an example set of processes for say an Election and then other form of selection and post to the DT list
Yaovi Atohoun:I am disconnected
Roosevelt King:giving notice that I will do some work on the rules and submit as comment.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:and obviouslty on the wiki
Alan Greenberg:Hour is long past - I need to leave very shortly.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Good Roosevelt
Nathalie Peregrine:he's disconnected
Nathalie Peregrine:we're trying to dial him back
Silvia Vivanco:Dialing Yaovi back
avri:i recommend it be 3 elections type: in ALAC, among RALOs and among ALSes
Nathalie Peregrine:Yaovi is baack
avri:and first there need to be ways defined and then decide which types of thing get which type of election
Roosevelt King:will do
Tijani BEN JEMAA:each RALO has its own rules
avri:i meant elections among the RALOS
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:indeed Tijani as do the ALSes
avri:i meant elections among the ALSes
avri:not within RALOS or ALSes
avri:the ALAC cannot assume that it is the only decison maker, or the only one to elect representatives
Cheryl Langdon-Orr: but there may be times when the ALAC require ALSes and / or RALOs to have input inot an Appointment or selection / election i think tat is what Avri was referring to
avri:it has to at least allow procedurealy for other ways of choosing.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:True ALAC but it is making rules for its own oporation at the moment
Roosevelt King:Bye
avri:but first define the process by which it could happen. then decide when it should happen.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:to the wiki then
Silvia Vivanco:Let us know preferred time for the next meeting.
avri:byt if ALAC makes rules for its own operations that include things that should be done by wider membership, that is a proble,
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:rotation will do I would think
Dev Anand Teelucksingh:take care all
Silvia Vivanco:Thank you all
Cheryl Langdon-Orr:bye all
Roosevelt King:bye
