Zoom Chat: 2020-10-19 Joint ALAC & ICANN Board Meeting

01:03:36 Sergio Salinas Porto LACRALO: gracias claudia7
01:03:39 Holly Raiche: (but I am an ALAC member and do not seem to bet able to participate)
01:03:41 David Olive: Welcome All
01:03:57 Aaron Jimenez: This session also includes real time transcription and interpretation. By clicking on the “closed caption” button in the Zoom toolbar you can view the real time transcription.
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01:04:05 Natalia Filina: hello all!
01:04:23 Aaron Jimenez: We kindly ask everyone in this meeting to abide by the expected ICANN Standards of Behavior. You may view these on the link provided in the Zoom chat.
https://meetings.icann.org/en/expected-standards-behavior
01:04:42 Claudia Ruiz - ICANN ORG: Session token: ICANN-PLENARY
01:04:47 Mary Wong: Hi PANELISTS: Please address your comment to Panelists & Attendees if you wish it to be visible to Attendees as well.
01:05:10 Vanda Scartezini: sergio - estamos en modelo webinar - buen dia
01:05:29 Ricardo Holmquist: It seems there is a problem with Zoom, it is leaving the name of the last talker for a while
01:06:06 Ricardo Holmquist: talker=speaker
01:06:49 Vanda Scartezini: Ricardo, it is working well for me
01:07:08 Mary Wong: Hello all, please note that only Panelists are able to speak. The staff team have made those ALAC members who are expected to be speaking Panelists. Please reach out to the At Large team if you are supposed to be a Panelist. Thank you.
01:07:09 Ricardo Holmquist: Obrigado Vanda
01:07:56 Herb Waye: Greetings from the Office of the Ombudsman. The Ombuds team is hosting a virtual drop-in office for ICANN69. Details are posted in the “Conversation” forum on the meeting main page. Stay safe and be kind.
01:07:58 Lito Ibarra: Hello, Ricardo. I have seen that, and you have to scroll on the speaker's picture and maybe it will refresh it.
01:08:21 Ricardo Holmquist: Gracias Lito!
01:08:22 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: Looking forward to this session
01:08:30 Matthias M. Hudobnik: hello all ;-)
01:09:50 Sébastien Bachollet: Sound breaking Marita
01:10:01 Seun Ojedeji: Good morning from Nigeria
01:10:30 Vanda Scartezini: not for me Sergio… quizá tu internet ..
01:10:31 Seun Ojedeji: Marita's sound seems clear here
01:11:06 Alan Greenberg: I'm hearing breaking up as well.
01:11:20 Franco Larios Carrasco: Kind reminder to everyone to state your name and affiliation for the records.
01:11:26 Vanda Scartezini: not here Alan…
01:11:31 León Felipe Sánchez Ambía: Yes, it seems to be both a connection and mic issue with Marita’s setup
01:11:32 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: audi pretty good perhaps a little drifty
01:11:38 Amrita Choudhury: I can hear Marita well
01:12:03 Ali AlMeshal: clear sound here
01:12:37 Holly Raiche: @ Marita - what are the issues that you feel need further discussion?
01:14:09 Holly Raiche: breaking up a bit here as well
01:15:34 Seun Ojedeji: audio is bad now
01:16:08 Dave Kissoondoyal: it is Ok now
01:16:17 Vanda Scartezini: caption may be the problem…
01:16:27 Maarten Botterman: much better voice
01:16:32 Vanda Scartezini: sound is good…
01:17:03 ICANN Tech - Alex S: We are aware of the issue with the Closed Caption and are working on it. Thank you for your patience.
01:17:37 ICANN Tech - Alex S: https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=20201019-zoom1
01:17:57 ICANN Tech - Alex S: This is a link to a browser version of the transcription if needed.
01:19:27 Holly Raiche: Thanks Alan
01:20:04 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: That was a concern that we reiterated throughout the development OF PDP 3.0 for the record
01:22:11 Marita Moll: @Holly -- major issues -- communication and not reducing the 6 issues we are left with out of 21 are addressed
01:23:08 Holly Raiche: Thanks Marita - I just wasn’t clear which issues you were referring to
01:23:37 Marita Moll: Sorry for any breakups. I am working from a distant corner of the house and the wi-fi is a bit weaker.
01:24:09 León Felipe Sánchez Ambía: Thanks Marita
01:26:06 Marita Moll: Just trying not wake the house up!
01:26:44 Vanda Scartezini: it was good for me marita, may be for some other colleagues was not but since the caption was not working well may be added some difficult to some..
01:26:45 Goran Marby: Working at night gives me the opportunity too meet my Community…aka teenagers
01:27:21 León Felipe Sánchez Ambía: In my case, for once, I don’t have a dog barking in the background :P
01:27:40 León Felipe Sánchez Ambía: In my case, for once, I don’t have a dog barking in the background :P
01:27:52 Vanda Scartezini: guess teenagers as we should be in bed at this time at least here 4:25 in the morning…
01:28:04 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: What did you do León?
01:28:06 Moustapha Abakar Abdramane: Hi everyone, I'm Moustapha Abakar from Chad
01:28:21 León Felipe Sánchez Ambía: Oh, the dog is asleep @Cheryl. Nothing bad :-)
01:28:39 Lito Ibarra: Lucky dog!
01:28:45 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: Fur and feather, scale and fin family are always welcome!
01:28:56 León Felipe Sánchez Ambía: Indeed
01:29:57 hadia Elminiawi: Hi Moustapha Abakar
01:30:51 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: That is good to hear Matthew thank you for the clarification
01:32:22 Holly Raiche: Will there be consultations on the assessment criteria?
01:32:25 Holly Raiche: Thanks
01:35:05 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: Communication and effectiveness thereof again seems to me to be key here...*again*
01:35:36 Daniel Nanghaka: I strongly agree wit you @Cheryl about communication and effectiveness
01:38:47 Franco Larios Carrasco: Kind reminder to state your name and affiliation for the record.
01:38:49 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: Well noted @Avri...
01:39:47 Vanda Scartezini: daniel. guess we all agree with some need of communication and effectiveness
01:40:23 Sébastien Bachollet: Thanks you for those exchanges
01:40:48 Holly Raiche: @JZ -0 Don’t stop now
01:41:43 Vanda Scartezini: metrics was ne huge point discussed inside ATRT3 due the lack of real metrics
01:41:52 Natalia Filina: +1 Jonathan, for all our projects
01:42:19 Marita Moll: Thanks JZ -- that's a point I was trying to make -- efficiency and effectiveness are not the same thing
01:42:36 Alan Greenberg: Effectiveness *VERY* different from efficiency!
01:42:58 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: often so @Alan
01:43:41 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: They are also not mutually exclusive ;-)
01:43:48 Daniel Nanghaka: The ATRT3 looked at the Accountability Indicators which was a dashboard like structure, but the metrics were scanty
01:44:10 Roberto: @CLO - not always, but sometimes
01:44:15 Holly Raiche: Thanks JZ
01:44:32 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: yup
01:45:13 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: and that usually loops back to defined measures and metrics ;-)
01:46:40 Holly Raiche: Indeed, it is quite possible to have a very efficient process that is totally ineffective
01:47:23 Danko Jevtović (ICANN Board): Well, measurement is the hard part because its where you test your definitions
01:47:48 Daniel Nanghaka: I think the definition of effectiveness is important
01:48:02 Daniel Nanghaka: If we are doing policies then the policies have to be effective
01:48:09 Daniel Nanghaka: Hence Effective policies
01:48:18 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: Well said Göran!!!
01:49:01 Gregory Shatan: Effectiveness should not sacrifice Inclusiveness on the altar of Efficiency.
01:49:16 Marita Moll: That's why we need a definition -- effectiveness includes inclusiveness and a lot of other things. We just need to make that how clear.
01:49:17 León Felipe Sánchez Ambía: Agree Greg
01:49:37 Sarah Kiden: +1 Greg
01:49:51 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: exactly @Greg!!
01:49:54 Marita Moll: great @Greg. Let's put that on the letterhead
01:50:06 Natalia Filina: +1 Greg
01:50:12 Holly Raiche: +1 @ Greg
01:50:23 Justine Chew: Agree with Jonathan on "effectiveness"
01:51:11 Justine Chew: +1 Jonathan on "effectiveness"
01:52:09 Roberto: Talking about multistakeholder model, how can it be effective if it is not inclusive? We need a definition of our goals before measuring effectiveness
01:52:21 Franco Larios Carrasco: Kind reminder to all panelists to state your name and affiliation for the record and to turn off all app. notifications.
01:52:23 Holly Raiche: @ Leon - it is possible to listen to and consider all views, when coming to a response - so it is about listening, not necessarily agreeing all the time.
01:52:24 Alan Greenberg: Leon, being listened to does NOT mean you get your way. It means your positions are FAIRLY considered.
01:52:34 Jonathan Zuck: The danger is a system which favors efficiency OVER inclusion and thus is "ineffective" as a MULTI-stakeholder model.
01:52:39 Daniel Nanghaka: I suggest lets not neglect the drive for effective measure to enhance the efficiency of the MSM
01:54:17 Marita Moll: Is there a slide we are missing
01:54:52 León Felipe Sánchez Ambía: @Alan, @Holly yes, I understand that. I am only saying that there is a thin line between valuing a system as effective by listening to everyone and one being efficient when some parts don’t get their way. I’m not sure if that makes it a bit more clear?
01:55:41 Holly Raiche: @ Leon - I think we all accept that not everyone will get their way all the time. The critical bit is listening
01:55:54 Bill Jouris: We've done very well this year. But one thing I think we have to recognize is that NOTHING substitutes for the casual conversations in the hallways at in-person meetings. Both for generating new ideas, and for building our social networks.
01:56:03 hadia Elminiawi: @Jonathan indeed the challenge is to balance effectiveness and efficiency
01:56:49 Justine Chew: Adding to @Alan's point about "being listened to does NOT mean you get your way. It means your positions are FAIRLY considered" ... and not disregarded in absence of any objection or opposing rationale, simply in favour of efficiency.
01:56:54 Jonathan Zuck: @Hadia, I would suggest that efficiency IS an element of "effectiveness," just not the only one or even perhaps the most important.
01:57:13 Holly Raiche: +1 @ JZ
01:57:25 Matthew Shears: the strategic plan talks about the importance of ensuring effective and efficient policy making for example
01:57:45 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: Exactly @Justine!
01:58:21 Amrita Choudhury: +1 Justine
01:58:35 León Felipe Sánchez Ambía: Good point Justine
01:59:21 Sarah Kiden: Agree, Justine
01:59:21 Natalia Filina: Interesting and correct @Justine
01:59:29 Gregory Shatan: At times, our MSM implementation can seem to elevate listening to everyone *exhaustively* (and often repetitively) over every other value, including effectiveness and efficiency. Perhaps this is lurking beneath the concerns here.
02:00:13 hadia Elminiawi: @Jonathan, I think it depends on how you look at the terms. The effectiveness of the multi-stakeholder model should in theory lead to efficiency or useful outputs, but how do we actually do that is the problem
02:00:15 Jonathan Zuck: @Matthew, thanks, I'm aware. It's current document that appears to conflate the two and it's a pitfall awaiting our entry if we are not careful. This notion of everyone "getting their way" is a red herring. Even being "listened to" is somewhat problematic if policy development is representationally unbalanced.
02:00:25 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: A matter well worth discussing perhaps in a future for a @Greg
02:00:40 Joanna Kulesza: Thanks Maarten!
02:01:16 Jonathan Zuck: Thanks for the discussion, ladies and gentlemen of the board!
02:01:24 León Felipe Sánchez Ambía: Thank you!
02:01:35 Vanda Scartezini: @ cheryl. yes Greg’s point can be put on our discussion list
02:01:46 Matthew Shears: Great Qs and points - thanks!
02:01:49 Holly Raiche: Thanks to all the participants
02:02:02 Marita Moll: Yes, great discussion. Thanks for the opportunity and looking forward to keeping it going
02:02:04 Lito Ibarra: Thank you all for a good discussion.
02:02:08 merike (SSAC liaison to Board): Very useful discussion….thank you everyone.
02:02:09 Dave Kissoondoyal: thanks a lot to all for the very fruitful discussion
02:02:15 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: Excellent interactions... Thank you everyone, perhaps we should do this MORE often not less (only tied to ICANN Meetings ;-)
02:02:17 Sarah Kiden: Thank you!
02:02:24 Ihab I. Osman: thank you all..
02:02:29 Vanda Scartezini: thank you all for this discussion worth participated
02:02:32 Lito Ibarra: I agree, Cheryl
02:02:36 Abdeldjalil Bachar Bong: Thank you
02:02:44 Gregory Shatan: I look forward to being "at the table" for the next Board and ALAC meeting.
02:02:47 Abdeldjalil Bachar Bong: Thank you
02:02:55 Natalia Filina: thank you all!
02:03:10 León Felipe Sánchez Ambía: Completely Agree @Cheryl COVID opens that opportunity
02:03:23 León Felipe Sánchez Ambía: We don’t need to wait till an ICANN meeting to do this
02:03:24 Innocent Adriko: Thank you for the resourceful discusiion.
02:03:40 Katambi Joan: Thanks everyone.
02:03:42 Lito Ibarra: Glad to see we all have similar concerns. Thanks
02:03:52 Herb Waye: Take care all… wishing you all a productive and respectful week
02:03:55 hadia Elminiawi: Thank you all for a great discussion
02:04:20 Danko Jevtović (ICANN Board): thanks
02:04:27 Vanda Scartezini: thanks Maarten and Maureen + Leon.. productive meeting
02:04:31 Amrita Choudhury: Thanks everyone
02:04:32 Lianna Galstyan: Thanks everyone
02:04:32 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: Bye for now!
02:04:36 Goran Marby: Thanks!
02:04:39 Jahangir Hossain/ Bangladesh: Thanks to all !
02:04:40 hadia Elminiawi: Bye for now
02:04:40 Innocent Adriko: Bye
02:04:40 Satish Babu: Thanks and bye!
02:04:46 Joanna Kulesza: Thanks all!
02:04:47 Ron da Silva: bye all
02:04:48 Moriam Sulaimon: thanks everyone. bye