Zoom Chat: 2020-07-29 Consolidated Policy Working Group Call

07:34:53 From Yesim Nazlar : Welcome to the At-Large Consolidated Policy Working Group Call taking place on Wednesday, 29 July 2020 at 13:00 UTC.
07:35:10 From Yesim Nazlar : Agenda: https://community.icann.org/x/wAV1C
07:57:08 From John McCormac - author of Domnomics : Morning/Afternoon all
07:57:42 From Evin Erdogdu : Hello all, welcome.
07:59:32 From Hadia’s iPhone : is anyone speaking?
07:59:58 From Hadia’s iPhone : can hear you
08:00:53 From Priyatosh Jana : hi everyone
08:01:38 From Dave Kissoondoyal : Hello everyone
08:02:14 From Holly Raiche : Is someone calling Jonathan?
08:04:07 From Yesim Nazlar : yes, dialing out to him also
08:04:25 From Sarah Kiden : Hi everyone
08:06:53 From Evin Erdogdu : Hello, welcome everyone! @Holly yes we are trying to reach Jonathan.
08:07:00 From Yesim Nazlar : RTT Link: https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=ICANN [streamtext.net]
08:09:13 From Justine Chew : Not sure if we can get through 4 in 30 minutes. Let's see.
08:11:07 From Justine Chew : Surprising but noted.
08:12:05 From Javier Rúa-Jovet - SESA : No objection.
08:13:05 From Bill Jouris : @Justine, I found one point which I will be commenting on personally. But nothing needing an At Large response. I suspect, however, that there will be a document from the Latin Generation Panel coming along which At Large will have an opinion on
08:13:07 From Evin Erdogdu : At-Large Workspace: ALAC Statement on EPDP (July 2020) - https://community.icann.org/x/LQCNC
08:19:56 From Justine Chew : @Bill, thanks. Might the Latin Generation Panel seek in put from At-Large some how?
08:26:08 From John McCormac - author of Domnomics : The WHOIS accuracy aspect is higly optimistic given the variations in data even for the same organisations.
08:30:15 From Holly Raiche : @ John- there is some minimum accuracy requirements in the RAA
08:31:20 From John McCormac - author of Domnomics : @Holly Yep. The problem (from the work I've been doing for the last month on grouping registrars) is often a translation problem. The Chinese to English translations are often problematic. Also company/business names can vary.
08:32:08 From Holly Raiche : @ John - which means there is still an issue to be addressed
08:32:22 From John McCormac - author of Domnomics : Chinese registants may use numbers instead of text. These have phonetic meaning in Chinese.
08:32:26 From Olivier Crépin-Leblond : Staff will fix the sharing in a moment
08:33:04 From Olivier Crépin-Leblond : In the meantime the slide deck is on file:///C:/Users/OCL/AppData/Local/Temp/EPDP-15-July-2020%20-%20Read-Only.pdf -- we are on slide #8
08:33:12 From Olivier Crépin-Leblond : ops
08:33:30 From Olivier Crépin-Leblond : oops wrong slide deck location
08:34:25 From betty Fausta : tks but link is in local ?
08:34:52 From Olivier Crépin-Leblond : Slide deck link is on: https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/141886215/EPDP-15-July-2020%20%20-%20%20Read-Only.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1595012557000&api=v2
08:35:18 From Justine Chew : Link is also on the agenda wiki page
08:35:57 From Olivier Crépin-Leblond : it loos like the new security measures in the Wiki make it harder to find the link and does not show it on the address bar correctly. Anyway, I've provided the correct link up
08:36:09 From Olivier Crépin-Leblond : also available from the Agenda
08:42:45 From Olivier Crépin-Leblond : ALAC Statement about EPDP Phase II -- currently being voted on by the ALAC
08:42:47 From Olivier Crépin-Leblond : https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=143458349
08:44:37 From Nadira AL-ARAJ : thank you Hadia and I hope the some of the team efforts go wasted
08:44:52 From Javier Rúa-Jovet - SESA : Thx a million @Hadia for the great, detailed update. I couldn't make yesterday's to ALAC's call, so I'm so glad I heard this today. @Staff my very belated apologies for yesterday.
08:45:19 From Hadia’s iPhone : thank you all for your support
08:45:27 From Holly Raiche : Agree - great job by Alan and Hadia
08:45:41 From Nadira AL-ARAJ : yes thanks to both Hadia and Alan
08:46:36 From Filina Natalia (EURALO Secretary) : Hello all, my apologies
08:52:14 From Jonathan Zuck : Yes!
08:52:41 From Justine Chew : Except for Recommendations #19-#22 which are supported regardless.
08:53:11 From Olivier Crépin-Leblond : 4 recommendations only
08:54:16 From Hadia’s iPhone : let’s hope for the best
08:54:19 From Javier Rúa-Jovet - SESA : Great great update & analysys.
08:54:28 From Hadia’s iPhone : thank you all
08:54:47 From christopher wilkinson : In the light of the privacy experience in ICANN in recent years, the ALAC recommendations appear to be too weak.
08:59:00 From John McCormac - author of Domnomics : GDPR seems to have been created by people with no understanding its impact on the stability or security of the Internet. These people have caused serious damage.
09:01:23 From Bill Jouris : GDPR was created by people who were concerned primarily about what harm *governments* would do with the information. But hardly at all with what harm might arise from private parties without the information. For what it was intended for, it works. But agreed, the unintended consequences have been negative and non-trivial
09:02:14 From Jonathan Zuck : +1 McCormac
09:04:22 From christopher wilkinson : -1 ICANN failed to respect minimal privacy protection for 20n years; also failed as far as I know to contribute at all to pre-GDPR consultations,
09:05:26 From John McCormac - author of Domnomics : Things look different on the frontline compared to ICANN meetings.
09:05:55 From Jonathan Zuck : Also true, Christopher but many achieved anonymity by other means.
09:07:26 From John McCormac - author of Domnomics : Some bad actors are not GDPR compliant and don't even use their real names. :)
09:11:28 From Herb Waye Ombuds : Hi Folks, sorry I missed the first hour. Hope everyone is staying safe and healthy.
09:11:54 From Evin Erdogdu : Welcome Herb!
09:11:57 From Javier Rúa-Jovet - SESA : @Justine, as always, ultra-precise and objective. Thx. One thing that is sure IMHO about the benefits of the current discussions on geonames as TLDs, is that, due to presentations such as this one by this CPWG team, as well as other discussions on the topic going on within other SOs/ACs, is the clearly increased level of education and capacity building- and simply, just knowledge and understanding of the topic and its problematiques.
09:13:29 From Chokri Ben Romdhane : Thank you all
09:14:04 From Holly Raiche : On jurisdiction - surely the enforcement mechanism is the contract between ICANN and the registry?
09:14:38 From John McCormac - author of Domnomics : There's the reality problem again! Many new gTLDs are not commercially viable except as part of a portfolio operation.
09:15:18 From John McCormac - author of Domnomics : As a single gTLD, the registry may be non-viable. As part of a portfolio, it may get enough regs to make it viable.
09:15:38 From John McCormac - author of Domnomics : Many small gTLDS have difficulty covering costs.
09:16:53 From John McCormac - author of Domnomics : The big problem with geo gTLDs is demand. It supercedes everything. The ccTLDs are dominating their markets.
09:17:41 From John McCormac - author of Domnomics : ICANN analysis of this issue seems to be stuck in the 1990s.
09:18:00 From Holly Raiche : @ JZ - did the genomes survey indicat4 what types of names ALAC felt should be protected - that would be outside of what is ‘protected’?
09:19:45 From Jonathan Zuck : The survey did not indicate much consensus on this and revealed a much greater concern for communities than sovereignty of governments.
09:20:01 From Holly Raiche : Tks JZ
09:21:26 From John McCormac - author of Domnomics : Just to give an example of reality of geonames. .IRISH has around 3K regs. .IE (Irish ccTLD) has about 290K regs. Irish hosted .COMs are around 135K.
09:21:44 From Javier Rúa-Jovet - SESA : Yep. Survey seems to confirm the fact of lack of uniformity of opinions, something that also seems to be true across WT5, and presumably across the whole of ICANN.
09:21:52 From Jonathan Zuck : That MIGHT help with the “who do we notify” problem. Would need to somehow reach beyond the GAC
09:22:41 From John McCormac - author of Domnomics : @JZ It will end up with a very large database to cover gov orgs, city orgs, regional orgs, civil soc orgs.
09:23:16 From Holly Raiche : Agree with idea of notification - is there an objection to use or not
09:23:25 From Javier Rúa-Jovet - SESA : (My "yep" is to @JZuck's reply to @Holly's Q)
09:24:01 From John McCormac - author of Domnomics : @Holly Needs clearer definitions of stakeholders.
09:24:42 From Jonathan Zuck : @JM, for sure, it will seem large if we do it in a spreadsheet like everything else but, as a database, it will be tiny. I don’t think the size of it will be an issue. The biggest concern I’ve heard is the feasibility of notification. If it’s a db that includes WHO to notify, that would go some way to mitigate that concern.
09:25:02 From Bill Jouris : Notification for anything like adjectival forms would appear to require knowledge of every official language to figure out what might be analogous in each. Not sure how viable that is.
09:25:15 From Holly Raiche : Agree with JZ on notification issue
09:25:23 From John McCormac - author of Domnomics : @JZ I'm thinking of the practical issues but yep.
09:25:45 From John McCormac - author of Domnomics : @JZ That kind of data needs to be kept current.
09:26:27 From John McCormac - author of Domnomics : The main targets for geonames will be the US/EU/AU markets.
09:27:25 From John McCormac - author of Domnomics : The data will be freely available but it needs a lot of ETL work (Extraction/Transformation/Loading) to get it into database format.
09:27:40 From Javier Rúa-Jovet - SESA : Abstain, as WT5 co-Lead. But would of course support and advocate any future decision on this matter by ALAC.
09:29:14 From Alfredo Calderon : Thank You @Jonathan. Exactly my concern. What would be the level of stakeholders to be able to emit advice on submission of geonames.
09:30:38 From Bill Jouris : It's a big database . . . EXCEPT to those who are accustomed to dealing with what size databases are routinely used today
09:31:13 From John McCormac - author of Domnomics : @Bill It spans different datasets. That's the issue of "big".
09:31:44 From Bill Jouris : @John, even so....
09:31:45 From Jonathan Zuck : Or cities. It’s not ALL problems. The system to register won’t care if you’re a GAC member. It’s just a database.
09:31:51 From John McCormac - author of Domnomics : The initial schema could take a few minutes. The data collection could take years. :)
09:32:19 From Judith Hellerstein : have we checked with the interpreters and captioners if they can stay late
09:33:01 From Jonathan Zuck : And BEWA
09:33:13 From Javier Rúa-Jovet - SESA : BEWA?
09:33:16 From Jonathan Zuck : And BEWARE, “Yes” is B which might confuse some
09:33:33 From Bill Jouris : Data collection, as designed, would never actually
09:33:33 From John McCormac - author of Domnomics : Keeping database content current is a very different issue from simply creating a database. People change jobs so e-mail/contact data changes.
09:34:10 From John McCormac - author of Domnomics : @Bill stop/end?
09:34:36 From Bill Jouris : @John, eternal updates
09:34:44 From Jonathan Zuck : @JM, if it’s just a registration form, ANYONE could register to be notified. It could happen fairly quickly and would most likely NOT get that big and certainly not big in DB terms.
09:35:01 From John McCormac - author of Domnomics : @Bill if only it was as easy as CZDS. :)
09:35:32 From Bill Jouris : @John, Trivial problems were all solved long ago ;-)
09:35:41 From John McCormac - author of Domnomics : @JZ In depth. small. In breadth, wide.
09:35:49 From Holly Raiche : At the next call- could we put Justine first
09:36:29 From John McCormac - author of Domnomics : @Bill Was on the ZFA group. We solved them. Then some people in ICANN introduced new problems. (the 90 day thing).
09:37:00 From Bill Jouris : @John, the world is just one large moving target
09:37:12 From John McCormac - author of Domnomics : @Bill that's the danger of people not being on the same page as regards objectives and content.
09:37:13 From christopher wilkinson : Have to leave the call now, Thankyou Justine, Yrjö. Marita, Shall return to a few questions on the List.
09:37:17 From Marita Moll : I find it very concerning that 1/3 of attendees did not vote at all. Are they on the phone, so can't vote?
09:37:49 From Bill Jouris : @Marita, I suspect that they are not so much unable or uninterested as conflicted on the subject
09:37:58 From Holly Raiche : @ Marita - this is a topic where there are real differences of opinion
09:38:12 From Marita Moll : @ Holly -- then why not vote no
09:38:42 From Holly Raiche : Maybe they don’t have a firm view
09:38:50 From Judith Hellerstein : they may not have been paying attention or left the call after 90 minutes
09:39:02 From Jonathan Zuck : @JM, not sure I recall the terms “depth” and “breadth” from CJ Date but, in any case, it’s not that big a deal
09:39:10 From Judith Hellerstein : but still had the call up and were not paying attention
09:39:13 From Justine Chew : Which time rotation are we using for next week's call?
09:39:16 From Marita Moll : Yes, I don't see how Justine could have done better with explanations
09:39:23 From Yrjo Lansipuro : Anyway, nobody was against
09:39:49 From Judith Hellerstein : we hear you
09:39:50 From John McCormac - author of Domnomics : @JZ Data collection issue. The data has to be collected from multiple sources and ETLed. This might not have been covered in theoretical classes. :)
09:40:13 From Michelle DeSmyter : 19:00 UTC - Wednesday, August 5th
09:40:17 From Marita Moll : @Judith -- that is my thought
09:40:23 From Javier Rúa-Jovet - SESA : Ciao. Thx to all, specially @Justine, @Wilkinson, Yrijo, Marita.
09:40:24 From Alfredo Calderon : As part of the next——Poll state the number of members vs Staff to count.
09:40:25 From John McCormac - author of Domnomics : @JZ think of it like WWW IPs, SOAs and MX data.
09:40:25 From Marita Moll : not paying attention
09:40:26 From Herb Waye Ombuds : Take care everyone and stay safe.
09:40:27 From Justine Chew : That clashes with NCAP DG call. :(
09:40:29 From Dave Kissoondoyal : Thanks and bye to all
09:40:37 From Alfredo Calderon : Bye to all!
09:40:41 From Gordon Chillcott : Thanks and bye for now
09:40:42 From Filina Natalia (EURALO Secretary) : Thank you very much, very useful call. Bye to all!
09:40:45 From Evin Erdogdu : Thank you all! “See” you next week.