Page History

07:48:20 From CART Provider - Kara Valor to Everyone:
    TY!
07:49:48 From Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    You are welcome and thank you for your help today!
07:51:14 From CART Provider - Kara Valor to Everyone:
    Captions are up and running :)
07:51:32 From Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    Replying to "Captions are up and ..."
    
    Wonderful!
07:51:54 From CART Provider - Kara Valor to Everyone:
    Replying to "You are welcome and ..."
    
    My pleasure :)
07:52:25 From Hassenjee Ruhomally to Everyone:
    Hi
07:55:03 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    Thanks. Morning/Afternoon/Evening all.
07:56:12 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    Just on the African DNS market report listed for August on the page, it seems to have been bumped to September now on the ICANN comments page.
07:56:53 From Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org to CART Provider - Kara Valor(Direct Message):
    Replying to "Who are apologies to..."
    
    You are welcome, we now have Jose Lebron just in as well
07:58:10 From Alfredo Calderon to Everyone:
    Good morning, afternoon, evening or night to all!
07:58:51 From Hassenjee Ruhomally to Everyone:
    Morning/Afternoon/Evening all.
08:00:29 From Heidi Ullrich - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    Welcome, All.
08:00:39 From Dave Kissoondoyal - ICANN ALAC to Everyone:
    Hello everyone
08:00:51 From Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    To follow along with the RTT:  https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=ICANN [streamtext.net]
08:01:00 From Vernatius Ezeama to Everyone:
    Greetings everyone
08:01:25 From Shah Rahman to Everyone:
    Good evening !
08:01:44 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    One possible reason for the African DNS report being delayed could be that Freenom has lost some of its contracts to run various African ccTLDs. That's going to take millions of regs out of the African ccTLD market. ( http://stats.aftld.org/ )
08:01:48 From Hadia’s iPhone to Everyone:
    Hello all
08:01:51 From Lilian Deluque to Everyone:
    Good morning
08:03:12 From Gopal Tadepalli to Everyone:
    Greetings. - Dr. T V Gopal, Professor, Department of Computer Science and Engineering, College of Engineering, Guindy Campus, Anna University , Chennai, INDIA.
08:03:37 From Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    To follow along with the RTT:  https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=ICANN [streamtext.net]
08:03:49 From Priyatosh Jana to Everyone:
    Hi everyone.... greetings from India
08:04:12 From Chokri Ben Romdhane to Everyone:
    Reacted to "One possible reason ..." with 
08:04:42 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    AOB - the African DNS market report update
08:05:10 From Heidi Ullrich - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    Action items: https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=184997399
08:05:29 From Greg Shatan to Everyone:
    All, I have a conflict with the first 30 minutes of this call (i.e., now) and will only be able to see -- not hear or speak. Please postpone Closed Generics to after the bottom of th hour.  Thanks!
08:08:04 From Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    Replying to "All, I have a confli..."
    
    Thank you Greg, this is noted.
08:08:59 From Chokri Ben Romdhane to Everyone:
    Regarding the .zip I remember that .com is also a file extension(MS/DOS , UNIX )! and no confusion was noted  between file and gtld!
08:09:53 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    @Chokri The Web didn't exist when .COM launched and neither did ICANN. :)
08:10:24 From Chokri Ben Romdhane to Everyone:
    Reacted to "@Chokri The Web didn..." with 
08:10:32 From Mouloud Khelif to Everyone:
    Hi everyone, apologies for being late, just got off another call
08:10:58 From Bill Jouris to Everyone:
    @Chokri, but the average user will often open a .pdf attachment/link.  But almost never one which relates to some obscure operating system stuff.
08:11:37 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    .ZIP and .MOV are more immediate threats because more people are using the Web and the files now. At the time .COM launched, 2,400 Baud was a fast modem.
08:12:26 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    There were Bulletin Board Systems but online access didn't exist for most people.
08:12:42 From Roberto Gaetano to Everyone:
    Hi all - sorry to be late
08:13:22 From Chokri Ben Romdhane to Everyone:
    @Jhon Text-based web browser for DOS where available , I'm not sure that ICANN was their!
08:14:51 From Chokri Ben Romdhane to Everyone:
    Reacted to "@Chokri, but the ave..." with 
08:15:06 From Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    To follow along with the RTT:  https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=ICANN [streamtext.net]
08:15:22 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    @Chokri There was no Web as such but there were some text based tools for Internet access. Internet access was limited to very large businesses and Academia. Think that the Fidonet (a modem based news/file distribution network) only started in the late 1980s.
08:15:34 From Satish Babu to Everyone:
    +1 Jonathan, for toning down the language a bit
08:15:38 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond to Everyone:
    less emotional and more formalised
08:16:44 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
    It’s that sentence starting “Given…”
08:17:02 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
    No one is asking for denials, for sure.
08:18:57 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
    That’s definitely a process that would leave a lot of individual registrants out in the cold, so to speak
08:21:02 From Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    I will be linking this document to the agenda
08:21:58 From Hadia’s iPhone to Everyone:
    @Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org thanks
08:22:00 From Steinar Grøtterød (At-Large) to Everyone:
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NNJ6EetRNIcqiF6KZ5BS08SF38NWtfG0XKmp3LXr3I8/edit?usp=sharing
08:22:31 From Hadia’s iPhone to Everyone:
    @Steinar Grøtterød (At-Large) thanks
08:26:10 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond to Everyone:
    Is this "not variant labels" a potential error?
08:27:22 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond to Everyone:
    IMHO it's where policy goes wrong. Crépin-Leblond and Crepin-Leblond are pretty much the same
08:28:41 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond to Everyone:
    Sébastien or Sebastien? :-)
08:28:53 From Sébastien Bachollet to Everyone:
    In the or Sebastian
08:29:03 From Hadia’s iPhone to Everyone:
    @Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond this is a true issue which needs a solution. Maybe the gNSO council directs it to the IDN EPDP group
08:29:39 From Hadia’s iPhone to Everyone:
    Although of course as it stands it is out of our remit but related
08:31:06 From Gopal Tadepalli to Everyone:
    @Satish: Many thanks. I know that EPDP as you have noted is managerial. The Managerial Principles for genericity need to be specified. Lest, much like Bill and others took a position with Latin, others will also take positions. Just a Suggestion. - Dr. T V Gopal, Anna University
08:31:34 From Roberto Gaetano to Everyone:
    In theory, a “bundle” solution where names with and without accent are considered interchangeable, could work. But as the PIR experience has shown, it is very difficult to implement because of the additional costs and resistance from the operators
08:31:39 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond to Everyone:
    I would like someone to provide examples of the instances where the meaning with or without accent is different
08:31:43 From Abdulkarim Oloyede to Everyone:
    No comment from me
08:32:51 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond to Everyone:
    and whether statistically the accented characters making words different is majority of cases... strange.
08:33:44 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
    Same country? Interesting slip…
08:33:46 From Roberto Gaetano to Everyone:
    @OCL in Italian we even have examples where the tonic accent changes the meaning (as in “pesca”) that it is not hard to believe that this happens with the graphic accent
08:33:49 From Shah Rahman to Everyone:
    but maybe in writing may differ
08:33:51 From Greg Shatan to Everyone:
    I am back on the call.
08:34:16 From Bill Jouris to Everyone:
    Just for a Spanish example (to add to the French ones), José and Jose are interchangeable.
08:34:47 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond to Everyone:
    thank for the notice @greg
08:36:25 From Gopal Tadepalli to Everyone:
    @ Satish and @ Hadia: Suggestion: Please consult Guidelines in Unicode for transliteration standards. - Dr. T V Gopal, Anna University
08:36:43 From Shah Rahman to Everyone:
    Reacted to "@ Satish and @ Hadia..." with 
08:37:15 From Gopal Tadepalli to Everyone:
    Referring to existing acceptable practices form stakeholders work is managerial indeed. - Dr. T V Gopal, Anna University
08:38:17 From Hadia’s iPhone to Everyone:
    @Satish Babu there needs to be some creative solution and I also agree the most logical approach could be through the language communities
08:39:55 From Abdulkarim Oloyede to Everyone:
    Thanks Satish
08:41:55 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    The exception option is probably best. But a limitation of future use (to stop an unintended repurposing) should also be considered.
08:42:36 From Sébastien Bachollet to Everyone:
    Privatisation?
08:43:22 From Christopher Wilkinson to Everyone:
    @monopolies:  perhaps refer to 'dominant operator'
08:43:28 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    A closed generic that changes to an open generic might be a breach of the terms under which the string was granted. That's the problem.
08:44:26 From Carlton SAMUELS to Everyone:
    Exception option is the best position to take!  We should not exclude an interest simply because we cannot guarantee a use case presented will remain the use case
08:45:25 From Christopher Wilkinson to Everyone:
    @ 'interpretation':  US jurisprudence is not global.
08:45:46 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    @Carlton If an applicant gets a closed generic, it should stay closed without being repurposed as an open generic. That may stop the gaming of the process.
08:47:53 From Carlton SAMUELS to Everyone:
    @Christopher Touche.
08:48:48 From Christopher Wilkinson to Everyone:
    @Carlton:  touché.  Merci.
08:48:50 From Carlton SAMUELS to Everyone:
    @John I can agree that the conditionality for delegation should not be changed over time
08:49:23 From Gopal Tadepalli to Everyone:
    @Satish and @Hadia: I found this useful: Unicode Transliteration Guidelines https://cldr.unicode.org/index/cldr-spec/transliteration-guidelines . Example of using this: If the user wants a version without certain accents, then CLDR's chaining rules can be used to remove the accents.  Thanks Satish for making End-User focus in your update. - Dr. T V Gopal, Anna University
08:51:31 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    .APP is doing quite well in terms of regs and usage.
08:52:11 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    Well compared to other new gTLDs no as compared with ccTLDs and the .COM
08:53:21 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    Applicants might rely upon creative ambiguities. That's why it is necessary to get it right.
08:54:52 From Carlton SAMUELS to Everyone:
    @ John 'creative ambiguities' love that!
08:55:30 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    Can't remember where I heard it but it describes a lot of these things. :)
08:56:08 From Jahangir Hossain to Everyone:
    Reacted to "@Satish and @Hadia: ..." with 
08:57:19 From Gopal Tadepalli to Everyone:
    @Alan Greenberg: Consensus Playbook from ICANN is very impressive. Please permit me to note the Consensus is one Agreement is another. - Dr. T V Gopal, Anna University
08:57:55 From Carlton SAMUELS to Everyone:
    Summary: I can agree the At-Large posture should not be ban 'em all.  Rather we should hedge and say it depends and here are a few principles to guide our assessment.
08:58:46 From Greg Shatan to Everyone:
    I will only be able to turn to the comment strawman this evening.
09:02:34 From Carlton SAMUELS to Everyone:
    Question: If the Board wants an exhaustive list and that cannot be provided, why now pivot and say a percentage of audited costs?
09:03:23 From Hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
    @Justine I have read it - i think we need to consolidate the input received
09:03:50 From Hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
    +1 Justine
09:05:00 From Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    Link to the Applicant Support Resources document: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fXWzGyf7uI1fUgt_RXtvl5mPLBiMDT5OgBAkj9KK5-U/edit#heading=h.3lnupjkght34
09:08:04 From Lavish Mawuena Mensah to Everyone:
    Reacted to "Link to the Applican..." with 
09:08:47 From Carlton SAMUELS to Everyone:
    Maybe we need to accept the uncomfortable truth and go along to get along. And I am at this since the original WG folded. [Full disclosure: I served as Co-Chair!] There is VERY LITTLE appetite for Applicant Support either in the GNSO or in ICANN the organisation. But the optics has political ramifications.  Those fallouts must be minimized.
09:09:07 From Justine Chew to Everyone:
    @Heidi, I hope staff can send reminders on the call for input on Applicant Support prior to the agreed deadline. Thanks!
09:09:44 From Steinar Grøtterød (At-Large) to Everyone:
    The deadline for the Public comment for the RA/RAA amendment is extended to 20 July 2023
09:10:35 From Steinar Grøtterød (At-Large) to Everyone:
    Replying to "The deadline for the..."
    
    https://www.icann.org/en/public-comment/proceeding/amendments-base-gtld-ra-raa-modify-dns-abuse-contract-obligations-29-05-2023
09:11:17 From Hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
    @Steinar thank you - the comment is currently being voted
09:12:48 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    That sounds like a naïve approach (bid with application).
09:16:00 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    There is also potential error condition where the underserved area applicant wins by accident because the other applicant didn't quite get their sums right for their bid valiue.
09:16:02 From Carlton SAMUELS to Everyone:
    @Jonathan Yes, that is what I'm saying!
09:18:37 From Steinar Grøtterød (At-Large) to Everyone:
    Setting a “bidding price” in the application will not make any sense for (almost) all applicants.
09:19:08 From Justine Chew to Everyone:
    +1 Alan, I was going to bring up CPE also
09:19:32 From Justine Chew to Everyone:
    Agree with Alan, Carlton's suggestion is a non-starter IMO
09:22:30 From Alan Greenberg to Everyone:
    The TREAT of looing the TLD if it is revealed that there was a private auction is a powerful control.
09:22:52 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond to Everyone:
    having a prohibition in place helps defining what else is allowed
09:23:05 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond to Everyone:
    "no auctions" - yes to backroom direct dealing/necociations
09:23:20 From Alan Greenberg to Everyone:
    TREAT  = THREAT
09:23:24 From sivasubramanian M to Everyone:
    @Alan   One of the contended strings was bid for 135 million.  In a scenario where there were an applicant who was supported, you would have given him a bid multiplier of 1000.  Even with such a mulitplier, the applicant would have had to come up with 135,000, which is exactly what the applicant found difficult for which the applicant applied for Applicant support in the first place !
09:23:28 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond to Everyone:
    so should it be "no auction" and "no reselling" and "no backroom deals" ?
09:23:36 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond to Everyone:
    it's impossible under free market rules
09:23:38 From Carlton SAMUELS to Everyone:
    The multiplier would be casually linked to accepting that every applicant show a bid price at the time of application, yes?
09:23:51 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond to Everyone:
    ICANN is not a regulator of the domain name market
09:24:23 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    Add an Auctions panel to ICANN to decide these issues? The panel would have to deal with any auctions with private auctions not being allowed?
09:24:40 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond to Everyone:
    you do know since every application is published
09:25:10 From Greg Shatan to Everyone:
    You would not know at the time of application.
09:25:12 From Justine Chew to Everyone:
    Bid submitted prior to reveal
09:25:54 From Sébastien Bachollet to Everyone:
    Time of the publication of the applications
09:26:02 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond to Everyone:
    choose the most likely strings out there
09:26:03 From Sébastien Bachollet to Everyone:
    Not of the application
09:26:16 From Alan Greenberg to Everyone:
    Olivier is right. But the threat of what they did is a powerful deterrent.
09:26:25 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond to Everyone:
    have none of you ever been at a Casino?
09:26:35 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond to Everyone:
    hedge your bets
09:27:26 From Alan Greenberg to Everyone:
    Meeting time....
09:28:10 From Carlton SAMUELS to Everyone:
    Seems to me if ICANN wants to continue with that fig leaf - as in we are not market regulators! - then a priori bids would undermine that posture.
09:28:24 From Justine Chew to Everyone:
    @Steinar it doesn't matter
09:28:47 From Hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
    I lost Steinar for a few moments
09:29:33 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    The problem is that some companies could take advantage of underserved regions by making an application through a front company in one of those markets and using that multiplier.
09:31:37 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond to Everyone:
    you can play the Applicant Process card by asking for Applicant support which will therefore multiply your bid in a sealed envelope auction. And you can play the speculating game by applying for 20 most likely / popular strings out there and work out a deal ex-ICANN with other applicants. This could include selling your company to the other applicant, or receiving a cash payment, or exchanging TLDs between companies, or bitcoin... there are quantities of ways to do dealings outside ICANN remit once the string list and applicants are published.
09:32:13 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    When there's a scheme, there's a schemer. :)
09:32:30 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond to Everyone:
    And if a company that really wants a string has a choice between paying 10M at auction or getting away with paying 2M privately, the other applicants will mysteriously vanish from the applicant list
09:32:40 From Heidi Ullrich - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    We have approximately 5-10 mins remaining.
09:32:54 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
    ICANN hasn’t enforced ANYTHING 100% ever…
09:33:29 From Carlton SAMUELS to Everyone:
    @OCL - speaking the truth. @John Indeed and +1. And we all would behave like that policeman in Casablanca!
09:34:39 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond to Everyone:
    QUEUE CLOSED AFTER ALAN GREENBERG
09:37:04 From Hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
    I keep losing greg
09:37:18 From Hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
    Is it only me?
09:37:29 From Justine Chew to Everyone:
    Do we have a defintion for "non-commercial applicants"?
09:39:08 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    Governmental or civil society/NGO? Not sure if there is a definition.
09:39:38 From Justine Chew to Everyone:
    Need to check with GAC Advice / GAC coz the term came from them
09:40:12 From Hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
    @Greg second price bidder would encourage bidders to put forward the price they really think is fair to them
09:40:22 From Gopal Tadepalli to Everyone:
    <QUESTION> What is the time frame for the auction to be completed ? Auction is useful to let the market dynamics tend to a "Fair Price". I will catch up later if this meeting closes. - Dr. T V Gopal, Anna University
09:41:07 From Louis Houle to Everyone:
    Replying to "Governmental or civi..."
    
    public entities, community orgs, charity…
09:41:17 From Greg Shatan to Everyone:
    @Hadia, True -- but the winning bidder always ends up paying the price that was "fair" for the second bidder.
09:41:54 From Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    Hadia - you are still cutting out, the interpreters are not able to interpret
09:42:25 From Justine Chew to Everyone:
    Replying to "<QUESTION> What is t..."
    
    With the sealed bid process being proposed, the "auction" is completed when the application period closes because it when the applicant submits the bid along with their application.
09:42:34 From Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    Please note that Hadia’s line is not being interpreted
09:44:16 From Steinar Grøtterød (At-Large) to Everyone:
    Will the applicant bid be included in the financial review for the applicant?
09:44:17 From Justine Chew to Everyone:
    Unless the applicant is applying for more than one string, of course
09:44:17 From Gopal Tadepalli to Everyone:
    Replying to "<QUESTION> What is t..."
    
    Many thanks. I need more thinking on this. - Dr. T V Gopal, Anna University
09:45:41 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
    Which is part of the idea, I think
09:45:45 From Hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
    @Jonathan but in the end losing and winning does not depend only on the financial proposal it should depend on both the technical and financial proposal. So to consider not to complete the evaluation of an applicant based on the financial offer might not be fair
09:45:46 From Carlton SAMUELS to Everyone:
    @Alan So all of this discussion re auctions may be labeled 'quixotic'?
09:45:51 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond to Everyone:
    you can "sell" your tickets
09:46:15 From Justine Chew to Everyone:
    Replying to "Will the applicant b..."
    
    I don't believe so
09:46:43 From Hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
    +1 to no private auctions
09:46:50 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    On the AOB issue. The African DNS market report comment period has been moved from August to September on the ICANN public comment page. Freenom has lost the contract to run .GA (Gabon) and may lose others. That's going to take a lot of regs (millions) out of the African ccTLD market. Not sure when the draft report will be available for comment. ( The background on the Freenom issue is here: https://domainincite.com/28814-millions-of-domains-to-be-deleted-as-freenom-loses-its-first-tld )
09:47:14 From Steinar Grøtterød (At-Large) to Everyone:
    Replying to "Unless the applicant..."
    
    Since the applicant doesn’t know if there will be contested, the financial model then has to add the applicant bid into their financial analyse. I don’t understand the value of this
09:47:21 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    No mic on this PC Olivier
09:47:28 From Gopal Tadepalli to Everyone:
    I must admit that my experience in International Matters that deal with Money Matters is very limited. - Dr. T V Gopal, Anna University
09:47:34 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    Have to use text only.
09:48:01 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    Already posted above Olivier
09:48:02 From Herb Waye Ombuds to Everyone:
    Thank you Merci… stay safe and be kind.
09:48:04 From Justine Chew to Everyone:
    Replying to "Unless the applicant..."
    
    I don't follow your concern
09:48:14 From Greg Shatan to Everyone:
    Reacted to "No mic on this PC Ol..." with 
09:48:22 From Greg Shatan to Everyone:
    Reacted to "Have to use text onl..." with 
09:48:23 From Dave Kissoondoyal - ICANN ALAC to Everyone:
    Thanks and bye to all
09:48:24 From Shah Rahman to Everyone:
    Thank you all
09:48:26 From Heidi Ullrich - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    Thanks, all.
09:48:28 From Hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
    Thank you all
09:48:31 From Hadia Elminiawi to Everyone:
    bye for now
09:48:42 From Alfredo Calderon to Everyone:
    Bye to all!
09:48:42 From Lavish Mawuena Mensah to Everyone:
    Thank you all... Bye
09:48:46 From Carlton SAMUELS to Everyone:
    Thank you all!
09:48:46 From John McCormac - HosterStats.com to Everyone:
    Thanks and later all.
09:48:50 From Gopal Tadepalli to Everyone:
    Many thanks. - Dr. T V Gopal, Anna University
09:48:57 From Roberto Gaetano to Everyone:
    Bye all