Page History

10:49:04 From Claudia Ruiz : Welcome to the Consolidated Policy Working Group Call
10:55:44 From Sonigitu Ekpe : Hello all!
10:56:18 From Sonigitu Ekpe : Greetings from Calabar, Nigeria.
10:57:11 From Vanda Scartezini : hi everyone....
10:57:20 From Gunela Astbrink : Hi everyone
10:58:10 From Gunela Astbrink : yes
10:58:19 From Evin Erdoğdu : Hello all, welcome!
10:58:27 From Vanda Scartezini : Calabar is a well known word here in Brazil - even a theater play with this name… I only know Lagos
10:58:44 From Aisyah Shakirah : Hello everyone! :-)
10:59:11 From Hadia Elminiawi (ALAC) : hello all
10:59:55 From Sonigitu Ekpe : Calabar is the headquarters of Cross River State. It hosts the biggest street party in Africa each year.
11:00:30 From Glenn McKnight, Foundation for Building Sustainable Communities : yes
11:00:32 From Gunela Astbrink : perfect
11:00:36 From Holly Raiche : YOu’re fine
11:01:03 From Sonigitu Ekpe : The Brazilians use to attend Calabar Carnival, which we adopted from Brazil.
11:02:31 From Chokri ben romdhane : thank you Holly
11:04:44 From Filina Natalia : hello all
11:05:27 From Jonathan : Здравствуйте
11:05:52 From Vanda Scartezini : please remember ATRT3 published its draft report for comments
11:06:17 From Filina Natalia : @Jonathan добрый вечер!-)
11:07:18 From sergio salinas porto LACRALO : hi everyone!
11:09:19 From Marita Moll : @Joanne -- this sounds controversial and I love it
11:10:09 From Holly Raiche : There is background npoise
11:10:24 From Vanda Scartezini : please someone with mic open close it …
11:10:59 From Gunela Astbrink : fascinating plenary
11:12:19 From Glenn McKnight, Foundation for Building Sustainable Communities : Given the move by China and Russia to have their own walled Internet it might have validity to have a two camps argue the pros and cons
11:12:48 From Judith Hellerstein : hi. my meeting was cancelled so I am now here
11:12:51 From Vanda Scartezini : guess this is a good idea GLENN
11:13:39 From Hadia Elminiawi (ALAC) : Thomas is with the ISPC
11:13:49 From Jonathan : Rickert was c0-chair, along with Leon, of the CCWG on Accountability
11:14:04 From Filina Natalia : Russia move, but no russians i guess @Glenn-)
11:14:26 From Glenn McKnight, Foundation for Building Sustainable Communities : Milton and William Drake have worked on the fragmented Internet topic
11:14:40 From Holly Raiche : Pity -
11:15:00 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : Do we have agreement that this be proposed as a HIT plenary from At-Large
11:15:33 From Marita Moll : I think it will be very popular
11:15:35 From Jonathan : sounds like it @Maureen
11:15:36 From Yrjo Lansipuro : I’d suggest Wolfgang Kleinwächter as a panelist
11:16:11 From Hadia Elminiawi (ALAC) : Thomas is with the ISPCP
11:16:22 From Holly Raiche : This has my support
11:16:34 From Joanna Kulesza : Finally mase it to Zoom. Thank you all.
11:16:41 From Joanna Kulesza : Finally made*
11:16:45 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : gets a thumbs up from me
11:16:53 From Claudia Ruiz : Welcome Joanna
11:16:54 From Marita Moll : me too
11:17:05 From Marita Moll : thumbs up
11:17:11 From Vanda Scartezini : Joanna, you have support from me and I believe fro all. send out the details to allow better contribution to you
11:17:24 From Glenn McKnight, Foundation for Building Sustainable Communities : Will the Internet Fragment?: Sovereignty, Globalization and Cyberspace By Milton Mueller
11:17:27 From Glenn McKnight, Foundation for Building Sustainable Communities : https://books.google.ca/books?hl=en&lr=&id=Hk0nDwAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PT5&dq=milton+mueller+and+fragmented+internet&ots=qpift6q-x9&sig=suODEBOgzihLFQH9gqtVvcPprVo#v=onepage&q=milton%20mueller%20and%20fragmented%20internet&f=false
11:17:30 From Hadia Elminiawi (ALAC) : Hi Joanna thank you for this
11:17:31 From Joanna Kulesza : Thank you all. Will keep working on this and report back when ready.
11:17:42 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : Ok I'll send it away to Tanzanica.. Thank you Joanna
11:18:04 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Thanks Joanna and 'welcome to the zoom room *finally*
11:19:16 From LAC-chapters Zoom : Sorry for the lateness
11:24:24 From Claudia Ruiz to LAC-chapters Zoom (Privately) : What is your name for the attendance records, please
11:27:16 From Jonathan : who will bear the "fines" of GDPR
11:29:53 From Eduardo Diaz - NARALO to Claudia Ruiz (Privately) : This is Eduardo. Sorry about the other name. I was connected to an ISOC Zoom account and it picked up the name from there.
11:29:54 From Vanda Scartezini : complex but guess will work
11:30:21 From Claudia Ruiz to Eduardo Diaz - NARALO (Privately) : Thank you, Eduardo. Wanted to hake sure I had your name for attendance
11:30:31 From Vanda Scartezini : Jonathan hope the European commission kkkkk
11:32:19 From Alan Greenberg (ALAC) : Sorry I am late.
11:32:26 From Eduardo Diaz - NARALO to Claudia Ruiz (Privately) : Thanks. I changed it in any case.
11:32:42 From Vrikson Acosta : Sorry I'm late. Out of electricity in Narnia
11:33:20 From Nadira AL-ARAJ : but there is non-for-profit body to run the system.
11:33:56 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : ICANN is not for profit
11:34:24 From Nadira AL-ARAJ : according to the presentation there will be another body
11:35:04 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : so why create another one? This seems like another way to provide employment to people to be on the board and staff of these functions to suck more money out of end users and obstruct the ability of an affected party to protect themselves
11:38:19 From Steinar Grøtterød : The WHOIS doesn’t have a way for tiered access
11:38:57 From Chokri ben romdhane : in my opinion we are in front of a technical model that is not able to give answer on a lot of gdpr needs it's only centralise decision in one side
11:39:06 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Ergh indeed!
11:39:25 From Harold Arcos to Claudia Ruiz (Privately) : Hola Claudia,,, nuestros ALACs Carlos Gutierrez y Humberto pidieron que registraran sus disculpas porque no pueden entrar a esta reunión,,
11:39:49 From Jonathan : Consumer protection agencies, researchers, IP holders, etc.
11:39:58 From Hadia Elminiawi (ALAC) : yes Olivier costs should be shared - and we are talking about the users of the SSAD
11:40:00 From Alan Greenberg (ALAC) : Yes
11:40:50 From Chokri ben romdhane : thank you Hadia

11:41:33 From Evin Erdoğdu : ALAC Advice to the ICANN Board on DNS Abuse (comment-only): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Pd1KLfbQzWLy6uOjy4NmAhLtY2CYGH5i2I2VrqjZuK4/edit?usp=sharing
11:41:41 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : lack of anonymity is only fine when convenient. What hypocrites!
11:45:39 From Justine Chew to Claudia Ruiz (Privately) : Could you click on the "Show more" link please?
11:47:39 From Justine Chew to Claudia Ruiz (Privately) : Thanks!
11:48:29 From Vanda Scartezini : what you expected Olivier?
11:48:43 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : I am no longer expecting anything. :-)
11:49:16 From Vanda Scartezini : like me Olivier….
11:49:49 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : when facial recognition is spreading in the world, this is useless arguing anyway
11:50:34 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : and governments will just regulate
11:52:27 From Nadira AL-ARAJ : +1 Olivier, if governments regulates the content
11:52:35 From Tijani : Frankly speaking, I didn’t understand what you mean
11:52:57 From Tijani : It was for Hadia
11:53:28 From Justine Chew : +1 Holly, Harm to end users.
11:53:53 From Yrjo Lansipuro : +1 to Holly
11:54:19 From Justine Chew : Definition of DNS Abuse could and should evolve.
11:55:40 From Nadira AL-ARAJ : exactly if ICANN community put its own def. of DNS abuse that would narrow the debate
11:55:52 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : by playing around with definitions governments are pulling out their sledgehammer and smashing whatever it see as abuse. ICANN is making a great job of making itself obsolete
11:57:02 From Carlton Samuels : I probably have a more hopeful view of content regulation on the Internet. It will finally emerge that politicians - even the ones we extol in so-called liberal democracies - have caught on that matters like fake news are tools and can be favourably and fruitfully utilised. Witness the recent situation reported from the UK. So, the FUD will continue. And everybody wins. Except of course the brain-weary slob called Joe Schmuck.
11:57:05 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : a "trusted" DNS will be the least trusted addressing system when there is a choice.
11:57:55 From Greg Shatan : Presumably Steiner was misinformed on the “open WHOIS” point. There is plenty of misinformation available, so even research can be insufficient without some level of skepticism....
11:58:08 From Justine Chew : @Alan, for bulk registrations I believe.
11:58:57 From Justine Chew : +1 Alan. Good point.
11:59:34 From Justine Chew : on Compliance action
12:00:52 From Carlton Samuels : @Alan, I am yet to be convinced that ICANN Complaince is without standing to enforce rules per DNS abuse under current contract and within the rubric of "stability, security etc. etc." What is clear to me is there is demonstrably no appetite to effect any operation for compliance.
12:01:20 From Abdulkarim Oloyede : Hi, I just joined thinking this meeting is 20:00 UTC. as this was the time in the email sent
12:01:27 From Holly Raiche : What we want is not so much identify the bad guys - but ACTION by ICANN compliance about the ‘bad guys’.
12:01:49 From Jonathan : I think it's both @Holly
12:02:03 From Carlton Samuels : @Holly +1. I know you know that's right!
12:02:24 From Alan Greenberg (ALAC) : @Carlton. That may be the case, but the when presented with specific cases, CC has claimed the rules are not sufficient for them to take definitive action. So My suggestion is get THEM to say what would be sufficient. It is time to stop finger pointing.
12:03:12 From Hadia Elminiawi (ALAC) : @ Steinar I haven't heard anyone asking for open WHOIS/RDAP, If I may ask where did you get this from?
12:03:22 From Holly Raiche : @ Alan - okay 0 no finger pointing AFTER Compliance either identifies why it doesn’t act or actually acts
12:04:02 From Carlton Samuels : @ Jonathan, ICANN Compliance has standing in contract to retrieve the actionable data. There are 3rd parties that do. There are 3rd parties that share and from then Compliance can seek confirmation under current contract.
12:04:38 From Hadia Elminiawi (ALAC) : Thanks Steinar
12:04:41 From Greg Shatan : WHOIS/RDAP does not exist for the benefit of the registrant.
12:05:32 From Jonathan : that's right
12:05:55 From Carlton Samuels : @Alan, very familiar with that approach you advocate. And fully mindful of the response to date. Part and parcel of no appetite.
12:07:27 From Hadia Elminiawi (ALAC) : No one is advocating for any sort of content regulation
12:07:46 From Jonathan : there's no mention of hate speech
12:07:47 From Holly Raiche : .+ 1 Hadia
12:08:17 From Jonathan : agree to stay non-political
12:08:39 From Hadia Elminiawi (ALAC) : we are talking about the technical challenges that the internet brings in this regard and how to fix it
12:08:53 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : the legacy TLS have less DNS abuse than the new
12:08:56 From Jonathan : agree
12:08:57 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : TLDs
12:10:41 From Holly Raiche : Agree with JZ summing up - particularly those engaged in systemic abuse (out of the CCT report’s recommendation)
12:10:45 From Chokri ben romdhane : I could not understand relation between whois service and DNS abuse? all experts says that there is no relation.
12:10:47 From Steinar Grøtterød : https://www.spamhaus.org/statistics/tlds/
12:11:04 From Steinar Grøtterød : https://www.spamhaus.org/statistics/registrars/
12:11:38 From Jonathan : Understood
12:13:45 From Greg Shatan : WHOIS information is constantly used in combatting all forms of DNS abuse.
12:14:20 From Marita Moll : And thanks for all the work that has gone into this.
12:14:29 From Greg Shatan : Where it is not available, that has hampered abilities to combat DNS abuse. All experts I’ve discussed this with or read see at least this connection if not others.
12:18:38 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : I like this approach @Justine THANKS!!!
12:19:11 From Nadira AL-ARAJ : great tool, and great efforts Justine
12:20:32 From LILIAN IVETTE DE LUQUE : Great Justine
12:22:15 From Holly Raiche : Chart nicely summarises the issues
12:22:46 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : "broached" ?
12:23:00 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : not common language for non English speaking communities
12:23:03 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : :-)
12:23:23 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : All the important details on one page - definitely what I try to achieve as well..
12:23:30 From Marita Moll : broached = raised
12:24:31 From Hadia Elminiawi (ALAC) : great approach
12:25:21 From Jonathan : great approach. And we should only focus on issues on which we have provided input
12:28:49 From Greg Shatan : Broaching is a wonderful cooking method.
12:28:55 From Chokri ben romdhane : thank you all
12:30:14 From Carlton Samuels : @Broached; used the word on a call earlier and faced the same wdym response.
12:30:17 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Well noted Yrjö, but THIS scorecard is accurate the score cards of the GAC on SubPro is full of errors and misinterpretations so needs a hige rework
12:30:29 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : THIS would help them sort out these **prob;ems**
12:30:30 From Marita Moll : @Greg -- especially good for cooking policy
12:31:14 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : DNS related?
12:31:27 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : LOL
12:32:18 From Aisyah Shakirah : Thanks Justine!
12:33:36 From Vanda Scartezini : thank you Justine great work indeed
12:33:41 From Jonathan : for SURE we want in on that!
12:34:00 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : I wonder if the ATRT3 one is a CPWG or an ALAC issue ?? does it pass the effecting end users test??
12:34:26 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Obvioulsy I want a response to the Interim Report
12:34:52 From Abdulkarim Oloyede : I am
12:35:05 From Nadira AL-ARAJ : I will
12:35:07 From Vanda Scartezini : we need someone not apra of ATRT3 …
12:35:10 From Evin Erdoğdu : At-Large workspace - Third Accountability and Transparency Review Team (ATRT3) Draft Report: https://community.icann.org/x/_gRxBw
12:35:24 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Happy either way JZ
12:35:26 From Abdulkarim Oloyede : I am interested in volunteering for the ATRT 3
12:35:33 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : just trying to follow the guidelines :-)
12:35:56 From Nadira AL-ARAJ : I'm not a part of ARRT 3
12:35:57 From Jonathan : I get it. I just don't know if the ALAC will come up with drafters
12:36:11 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : We will be holding a webinar mid Jan
12:36:28 From Nadira AL-ARAJ : *ATRT 3
12:36:33 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : and there will be a slide set for use in the early new year
12:36:48 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : DO remember Vanda and Daniel are ATRT3 as well
12:36:52 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : Makes sense that the ALAC reps provide a report to the CPWG first
12:37:09 From Vanda Scartezini : I believe members should not be the pen holders, we can be open to explain issues
12:37:50 From Hadia Elminiawi (ALAC) : I could also help but not lead
12:37:57 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : good offer though @Alan thx
12:38:04 From Holly Raiche : I”m with Alan - I haven’t read it so don’t want to put my hand up until I have
12:38:26 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : Many of the ALAC members needs to hear what it is about before they read the report - they can hear about it within this forum - CPWG
12:39:03 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : I will ensure that the set of slides goes to staff to lodge on this WG's wiki as soon as it is available to see if that can assist as well 9in advance of any presentation)
12:39:07 From Maureen Hilyard (ALAC) : +1 Jonathan
12:39:16 From Alberto Soto : I didn't have time to read it yet
12:39:38 From Vanda Scartezini : agree Maureen - we will have some slides after the holidays and then we, members of ATRT3 can talk about it to the group
12:40:02 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Are we ghaving another CPWG call before next year??
12:40:17 From Nadira AL-ARAJ : +1 Jonathan of the approach that CPWG come with position
12:40:29 From Greg Shatan : Cheryl, you are too enthusiastic.
12:40:59 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : No I am not sure why the PPT slide not being ready until Jan start is an issue for us that's all
12:41:46 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : There is plenty to read and discuss between now and Jan in the Report I would think
12:41:47 From Abdulkarim Oloyede : I read the document briefly as its over 200 pages but I must say the way it was presented it very difficult to follow.
12:42:07 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : then our first CPWG meeting can address a discussion based ON that preparation
12:42:11 From Justine Chew : I'm with you @CLO
12:42:22 From Vanda Scartezini : agree Cheryl
12:42:27 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : allowing the ALAC in Jan to also deal with the matter
12:42:33 From Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond : Why are such documents *always* released over the Xmas holidays?
12:42:38 From Abdulkarim Oloyede : Seb, Very long indeed but I guess now it cos much was not agreed
12:43:29 From Justine Chew : +1 Alan. I was hoping that our 4 reps could suggest or highlight what we should concentrate on.
12:43:50 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : There was plenty of agreement and some outlying opinions as well when that happened we have posed alternatives for Public Comment @Abdulkarim
12:43:51 From Vanda Scartezini : the slide we will get after holidays will be exactly bullets points and can be used to this group to discuss
12:44:15 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : thus it is why the discussion here/with the ALAC is essential
12:44:41 From Abdulkarim Oloyede : + 1 Alan
12:44:44 From Nadira AL-ARAJ : yes, if there are no consensus on certain points that what should be discussed
12:44:46 From Justine Chew : Violent agreement !
12:44:58 From Vanda Scartezini : as cheryl said , first schedule meeting in january can be done
12:44:58 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : indeed JZ I would LOVE to be able to give my personal views on many things
12:45:29 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : as in the Co-Chair role that has been limited (usually by Sebastien complaining that I was doing so)
12:45:48 From Nadira AL-ARAJ : maybe allocate one topic meeting
12:46:15 From Jonathan : yes, one topic meeting
12:47:16 From Roberto : +1 one topic meeting
12:47:16 From Alan Greenberg (ALAC) : Need to leave now. Sorry.
12:47:26 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : thanks Alan Bye
12:48:39 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Excellent as early as possible in Jan is the best plan
12:48:50 From Evin Erdoğdu : Noted
12:48:53 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Just pick a date and set it up
12:48:59 From Heidi Ullrich : Doodle for presenters only at a globally friendly time?
12:49:09 From Vanda Scartezini : ok agreed - each member of ALAC had a role as responsible for each sub group so we can divide as such
12:49:35 From Holly Raiche : Have to leave - sorry
12:50:21 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : It would be nice to see the single purpose call include ALAC to the Max to reflect some of @Alan's points made earlier
12:50:38 From Abdulkarim Oloyede : I want to suggest that the call should have terms on how we can reach consensus as raised earlier by Alan. I think those representing us on ATRT3 should able agree to push our consensus rather than their own opinion
12:51:00 From Abdulkarim Oloyede : also agree*
12:51:40 From Evin Erdoğdu : Okay I can highlight those
12:51:47 From Jonathan : we can use our shortener for that!
12:52:27 From Jonathan : Thanks everyone and thanks to the interpreters for constantly accommodating our inefficiency!
12:52:44 From Heidi Ullrich : ICANN offices close mid-day 24th
12:53:00 From Justine Chew : Monday 23rd?
12:53:02 From Gunela Astbrink : Yes
12:53:05 From Harold Arcos : pretty useful call
12:53:09 From Abdulkarim Oloyede : I think 23rd is better rather than 24
12:53:21 From Yrjo Lansipuro : 24 is Christmas Eve
12:53:29 From Harold Arcos : +1 Abdulkarim
12:53:52 From Hadia Elminiawi (ALAC) : ok
12:53:55 From Vanda Scartezini : ok 23.
12:53:58 From Abdulkarim Oloyede : that works
12:54:05 From Carlton Samuels : Whose Christmas Eve? For Maureen will be in Christmas by then!
12:54:05 From Hadia Elminiawi (ALAC) : bye for now
12:54:06 From Alberto Soto : Thanks, bye bye!!
12:54:06 From Vrikson Acosta : Bye
12:54:07 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Bye
12:54:08 From Gunela Astbrink : bye
12:54:09 From Marita Moll : Bye
12:54:10 From Abdulkarim Oloyede : bye
12:54:11 From Carlton Samuels : Thanks all
12:54:11 From Vanda Scartezini : best weekend
12:54:12 From Jonathan : I'm a Buddhist so any day is fine as long as we don't have any expectations!
12:54:12 From Roberto : We can do 25 so that it is 26 Dec. for Cheryl 
12:54:20 From Hanan Khatib : thank you
12:54:30 From Harold Arcos : thanks all,, bye bye,, thanks our interpreters!!