Page History

10:45:35 From Claudia Ruiz : Welcome to the Unaffiliated Individuals Mobilization Working Party Call
10:59:22 From Heidi Ullrich : Welcome, All.
11:01:31 From Gopal Tadepalli : Greetings. - Dr. T V Gopal, Professor, Department of Computer Science and Engineering, College of Engineering, Guindy Campus, Anna University, Chennai, INDIA
11:03:33 From Heidi Ullrich : Action Items from 12 October - https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/Action+Items%3A+2020-10-12+Unaffiliated+Individuals+Mobilization+Working+Party+Call
11:05:43 From Nadira AL Araj : https://doodle.com/poll/qexddebpbhpkviuf
11:08:49 From Claudia Ruiz : Welcome Esther Patricia Akelo
11:08:56 From Claudia Ruiz : Welcome Judith Hellerstein
11:09:51 From Nadira AL Araj : It might be that WP members were busy with the heavy ICANN 69 schedule
11:10:23 From Laura Margolis : Yes Nadira, I agree with you
11:10:56 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : It might also be that in a region that is a minority anyway our selections rrely cary sway ;-)
11:11:09 From Nadira AL Araj : Carlos Hand is up
11:13:28 From Roberto : Agree @CLO
11:14:08 From Roberto : @Nadira - maybe - but it does not take much to fill in a Doodle
11:14:14 From Abdulkarim Oloyede : Very important point
11:14:35 From Jonathan Zuck : we ARE talking RALO member8no?
11:14:40 From Nadira AL Araj : @Carlos, we discussed ALS mobilization in a similar Working party
11:16:03 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Nope not convinced of your logic relating to OUR work...
11:16:18 From Nadira AL Araj : We are RALO level
11:16:42 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Correct ED
11:18:58 From Heidi Ullrich : As noted in the UIM-WP description: The Unaffiliated Individuals Mobilization Working Party will make a recommendation to the ALAC on what needs to be done to allow the full implementation of changes in support of unaffiliated individuals' participation in At-Large in accordance with the plans proposed under Issue #2 of the At-Large Organizational Review as approved by the ICANN Board of Directors on 23 June 2018 and 27 January 2019.
11:20:14 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Individual Membership is NOT an ALS issue per se
11:20:36 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : This group is set up to reflect RALO interets
11:20:47 From Sarah Kiden : Agree, individual membership is a RALO issue
11:20:55 From Nadira AL Araj : It is not about ALS but membership of RALO
11:21:07 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : I really do not see the point of Carlos's intervention in the way of OUR Work
11:21:21 From Caleb Ogundele : +1 Sarah
11:21:31 From Abdulkarim Oloyede : +1 Sarah
11:21:45 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Well said @Alan
11:23:40 From Nadira AL Araj : good point Roberto
11:23:48 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : yup +1 @Roberto
11:24:32 From David Mackey : @Shara, if individual membership is a RALO issue, are you saying the RALO is also responsible for individual mobilization too?
11:24:44 From Gopal Tadepalli : Alan: Seen the final draft of the ALS-Mob-WP Report you have sent. However, last week was hectic and been on travel over the past few days. I prefer "Listen" only in this meeting and mail later. - Dr. T V Gopal, Professor, Department of Computer Science and Engineering, College of Engineering, Guindy Campus, Anna University, Chennai, INDIA
11:24:55 From Abdulkarim Oloyede : Yes @ David
11:25:13 From David Mackey : @Abdulkarim Then why are we here?
11:25:58 From Eduardo Diaz - NARALO : Correct is at the RALO level
11:27:03 From Judith Hellerstein : The point of this working group is just to set criteria for individual members
11:27:05 From Carlos Raul Gutierrez : Thank you very much @abdulkarim for restating my idea much more clearly. . The only reason I Intervened is because the second poll Roberto has started is in my view not 100% clear. Now Roberto has been 200% clear.
11:27:06 From Abdulkarim Oloyede : @David That is the point. we might be wasting time
11:27:25 From Alan Greenberg : @Roberto, I don't agree. One of the things we SHOULD be recommending is whether it is purely a RALO decision or not.
11:27:29 From Carlos Raul Gutierrez : @Zuck it was Robertos 2nd poll
11:27:31 From Nadira AL Araj : In this case the ALS member can leave their ALS and join as unaffiliated members.
11:28:24 From Carlos Raul Gutierrez : my point is to sTART all discussion at the RALo level and don’t spend too much time on the ALS level, because ALAC has some bad blood story about ALS´s and this issue
11:28:30 From David Mackey : Maybe it would be good to focus the discussion on RALOs who accept individual members and others who do not accept it don’t have to join the discussion
11:28:59 From Nadira AL Araj : Exactly JZ, this group will advice the best practice and if the ALS doesn't follow it would be up to them.
11:30:14 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Exactly @Alan that is the Job description as I understand it
11:30:32 From Abdulkarim Oloyede : But I think RALO cant be forced to accept a member. ALAC can only recommend
11:30:54 From Jonathan Zuck : we have no jurisdiction over ALSs, but we have COMPLETE jurisdiction over RALOs, given they exist SOLEY to serve the ALAC
11:31:15 From Alan Greenberg : AK, the ALAC can only approve our recommendations IF the RALO people on the ALAC support it!
11:31:24 From Claudia Ruiz to Heidi Ullrich (Privately) : https://doodle.com/poll/qexddebpbhpkviuf
11:31:33 From Alan Greenberg : It needs a 2/3 majority of the ALAC to approve rule changes.
11:31:42 From Jonathan Zuck : Yes
11:32:24 From Abdulkarim Oloyede : @Jonathan, I think it is the other way round. ALAC exists to serve the RALO at the center
11:32:41 From Jonathan Zuck : But Alan, there could certainly be a RALO rep who disagrees and it still goes
11:33:02 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : ALAC exists because 8IT* is the Advisory COmmittee to ICANN
11:33:05 From Alan Greenberg : @Roberto, exactly, that is what we are discussing.
11:33:06 From Seun Ojedeji : sorry for coming in late, am trying to relate current discussion to agenda, what agenda item are we on please? thanks
11:33:16 From Abdulkarim Oloyede : @cos its the RALO that makes up the ALAC and not ALAC making up the RALO
11:33:28 From Alan Greenberg : @Seun 4b
11:33:34 From Heidi Ullrich : Welcome, Seun. We are on Item 4b.
11:33:46 From Jonathan Zuck : AK, that's absolutely not true as a matter of the bylaws
11:33:54 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : I suggest you look to the structure and history of ALAC and At-Large AK
11:34:02 From Seun Ojedeji : Okay thanks Heidi
11:34:29 From Jonathan Zuck : @Eduardo, I don't think that's true
11:34:32 From Seun Ojedeji : thanks Alan
11:34:48 From Alan Greenberg : @Eduardo, not quite. If the ALAC approves something, it must be with general concurrence of the RALO people on the ALAC!
11:35:24 From Abdulkarim Oloyede : @ Jonathan my understanding of the bylaw is that ALAC advises the board on behalf of the RALOs
11:35:32 From Alan Greenberg : There currently ARE rules that are At-Large wide for all RALOs.
11:36:50 From Abdulkarim Oloyede : @CLO yes maybe I need to look into the history
11:36:51 From Eduardo Diaz - NARALO : Thanks for the clarification Roberto.
11:37:09 From Eduardo Diaz - NARALO : I am clergies know.
11:37:43 From Nadira AL Araj : Yes, @AK, hence the ALAC consult RALOs, RALOs consult ALS or its individual members.
11:38:01 From Seun Ojedeji : It's normal that this group will need to identify possible global rules that can be applied to individual members, that does not been that their will not be RALO specific rules in addition to the global rules as the RALOs have their diversities
11:38:02 From Abdulkarim Oloyede : Yes Nadira.
11:38:33 From Alan Greenberg : Overall, this particular issue (whether an ALS member can also be an indiv. member) is REALLY not very important and is only going to impact a small number of people.
11:38:43 From Eduardo Diaz - NARALO : @Alan: you are correct. I can take as an example the criteria that RALOs have to follow for an ALS to join.
11:38:46 From Seun Ojedeji : It's normal that this group will need to identify possible global rules that can be applied to individual members, that does not mean that there will not be RALO specific rules in addition to the global rules as the RALOs have their diversities
11:39:28 From Heidi Ullrich : See table of various RALOs’ rules on individuals: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kmOn-v1v-5vxMGbEhIDCGWawDv134U7HTSIV57uxQjQ/edit#gid=0
11:39:30 From Alan Greenberg : @Seun. Exactly! And we are here to decide what rules, if any, there should be.
11:39:55 From Roberto : @Seun Correct
11:40:56 From Alan Greenberg : Note that ANYONE can be a member of the RALO member list. Membership in a list may be a requirtement for RALO membership but not the other way around.
11:41:17 From Alan Greenberg : We have MAY mailing list members who are not RALO members!
11:41:25 From Alan Greenberg : MAY=MANY
11:41:37 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Beat me t it @Alan, and some RALOs have quite open as in just subscribe to Mailing lists
11:41:43 From Jonathan Zuck : perhaps we just need to create an ALRALO (At-Large RALO) and allow people to join as individuals. if some kind of RALO bureaucracy is in the way of getting volunteers then we go around them.
11:41:51 From Carlos Raul Gutierrez : We have 2 many mailing lists, complexity
11:42:03 From Abdulkarim Oloyede : @Jonathan good idea
11:42:13 From Laura Margolis : +1 @Jonathan
11:43:11 From Nadira AL Araj : @Jonathan, I liked your out of the box suggestion.
11:43:12 From Alan Greenberg : The ALS-Mob WP looked at an non-region ALS and decided it was not something that could be readily integrated into the Bylaws. Same for "ALRALO"
11:43:19 From David Mackey : Something to consider as we explore this are is At-Large’s mandate as defined in the bylaws (12.d.i) … “The role of the ALAC shall be to consider and provide advice on the activities of ICANN, insofar as they relate to the interests of individual Internet users.”
11:43:26 From David Mackey : this area
11:43:40 From Gopal Tadepalli : For the records: I am an Individual Member of APRALO. My special thanks are due to Evin Erdogdu. The term "Unafflialiated" is very nice. - Dr. T V Gopal, Professor, Department of Computer Science and Engineering, College of Engineering, Guindy Campus, Anna University, Chennai, INDIA
11:44:01 From Seun Ojedeji : one more list to the soup (re: Jonathan) naa I think the global atlarge list is sufficient for all members
11:44:26 From Jonathan Zuck : Any system that inspires the CREATION of an ALS is a broken system
11:44:36 From David Mackey : Sorry bylaw reference is 12.2.d.i
11:44:44 From Carlos Raul Gutierrez : @gopal I also like “unaffiliated”
11:45:30 From Esther Patricia Akello : +1Roberto on tools. let’s use the ones supported so far
11:45:58 From Heidi Ullrich : @Roberto, noted.
11:46:18 From Jonathan Zuck : agree. that said, we need to keep pushing ICANN to incorporate more modern tools
11:47:39 From Judith Hellerstein : yes @jonathan exactly
11:51:32 From Gopal Tadepalli : To my mind ICANN Confluence is the best. It is most productive if one is clear minded about the task on hand. I enjoy using multiple tools as a teacher of Computer Science and Engineering. - Dr. T V Gopal, Professor, Department of Computer Science and Engineering, College of Engineering, Guindy Campus, Anna University, Chennai, INDIA
11:53:42 From Nadira AL Araj : The only voting ALS members has is for Leadership
11:54:01 From Jonathan Zuck : yes
11:54:08 From Carlos Raul Gutierrez : thanks Alan for the clarification
11:54:26 From Carlos Raul Gutierrez : next question is voting for leadership.
11:55:07 From Jonathan Zuck : Really?!
11:55:19 From Jonathan Zuck : wow. didn't know that
11:55:37 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : good point to review @Alan
11:56:11 From Nadira AL Araj : +1 Alan to be discussed by this group
11:56:38 From Judith Hellerstein : @roberto we do the same in Naralo
11:56:41 From Nadira AL Araj : Not ALS members
11:56:48 From Eduardo Diaz - NARALO : That is the way we do it in NARALO
11:56:49 From Nadira AL Araj : they don't vote
11:56:51 From Abdulkarim Oloyede : @ Alan, if that is true then I think yes we have to leave it to the RALO to decide.
11:57:13 From Heidi Ullrich : See rules at: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kmOn-v1v-5vxMGbEhIDCGWawDv134U7HTSIV57uxQjQ/edit#gid=0
11:57:39 From Nadira AL Araj : Thanks Heidi for this reference
11:57:44 From Heidi Ullrich : Column d is the relevant column
11:57:57 From Alan Greenberg : @AK, I said several things. If *WHAT* is true
11:59:35 From Gopal Tadepalli : Is it for Single Winner Voting or Multi-Winner Voting ? - Dr. T V Gopal, Professor, Department of Computer Science and Engineering, College of Engineering, Guindy Campus, Anna University, Chennai, INDIA
12:00:21 From Heidi Ullrich : Next week, Roberto ?
12:00:35 From Jonathan Zuck : gotta jump!
12:00:41 From David Mackey : Thank you Roberto for your leadership and everyone else for a very good exchange of views. :-)
12:00:44 From Heidi Ullrich : Monday, 2 Nov at 18:00 UTC
12:00:51 From Sarah Kiden : Thank you!
12:01:04 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : Bye for now!
12:01:10 From Carlos Raul Gutierrez : UTC is with counts
12:01:14 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : we work in UTC thanks heavens
12:01:18 From David Mackey : Thanks for the heads up Alan :-)
12:01:20 From Nadira AL Araj : we already changed to winter time
12:01:27 From Cheryl Langdon-Orr : we have been changed here for a couple of weeks FYI