Zoom chat: 2022-9-21 Joint ALAC and GAC Meeting

08:53:12 From Gulten Tepe - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    Hello everyone, welcome
08:56:51 From Gulten Tepe - ICANN Org to Everyone:
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09:05:28 From Herb Waye to Everyone:
    Greetings from the Office of the Ombudsman. Our ICANN75 venue office (Executive Suite 1) and virtual office (Zoom) will be open during the AGM meeting hours. Details for the virtual Zoom office are available in the Discussion forum on the main ICANN75 meeting page under the “More” drop down list. We can always be reached by email at ombudsman@icann.org Stay safe and be kind.
09:05:46 From Nigel Hickson GAC UK to Everyone:
    Good morning 
09:06:11 From Dorothy Okello UG to Everyone:
    Good morning 
09:06:40 From Dave Kissoondoyal - ALAC to Everyone:
    Hello everyone.
09:08:56 From Beatriz Rodriguez-UY to Everyone:
    Good morning,/Good night,
09:09:49 From Ananda Gautam to Everyone:
    Greeting from Nepal 
09:12:23 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
    Don't have to go that far back, if you consider some of Facebook's efforts to provide internet access, in underserved regions.
09:13:20 From Nigel Hickson GAC UK to Everyone:
    +1 Jonathan 
09:15:42 From Pavel Farhan to Everyone:
    <QUESTION> What is the Splinternet? For everyone who is not quite familiar with the term, why is it important for them to know the implications of the Splinternet? </QUESTION>
09:19:52 From Alberto Soto to Everyone:
    +1 Jonathan
09:21:12 From Eduardo Díaz (NARALO chair) to Everyone:
    The splinternet is a characterization of the Internet as splintering and dividing due to various factors, such as technology, commerce, politics, nationalism, religion, and divergent national interests. (by Wikipedia)
09:21:15 From Nigel Hickson GAC UK to Everyone:
    @Pavel; hope we may have opportunity to come back to your question; think "Splinternet" generally refers to a broken global Internet replaced by disparate networks perhaps on a geographic basis 
09:21:48 From Pavel Farhan ICANN75 Fellow to Everyone:
    Thank you Eduardo and Nigel
09:22:59 From Eduardo Díaz (NARALO chair) to Everyone:
    Examples of the splinternet phenomenon are the control of content by the authorities in China, or the blocking of certain U.S. media outlets to users located in Europe as a result of the new data-protection law (General Data Protection Regulation, GDPR) approved by the European Union. (by zorraquino.com)
09:25:37 From Pavel Farhan ICANN75 Fellow to Everyone:
    follow up <QUESTION> Does the "Splinternet" fall under the category of Internet Fragmentation, as defined by ICANN? Why or Why not? </QUESTION>
09:26:40 From Christine Arida - Egypt to Everyone:
    This is a 4 year old paper but much of it still holds pretty much today .. it really has a great analysis on the topic : https://www.academia.edu/20523166/William_J_Drake_Vinton_G_Cerf_and_Wolfgang_Kleinw%C3%A4chter_2016_Internet_Fragmentation_An_Overview
09:27:25 From Velimira NEMIGUENTCHEVA GRAU  to Everyone:
    It seems Eduardo has misread the GDPR, in which case it is not appropriate to use it as example   
09:27:35 From Bill Jouris to Everyone:
    +1 Jonathan.  "Do no harm" is at least something that we may, with difficulty, achieve is many cases.  Promoting something that we have been unable to define is a bridge too far.
09:28:39 From Holly Raiche to Everyone:
    My  question is whether ICANN has, in effect, defined Splinternet.  What we did hear from Goran, in response to a question, was the issues raise by moving to an ITU governance scenario
09:29:12 From Alberto Soto to Everyone:
    +1 Eduardo Diaz. And that is just one example of a new tower of Babel, which would turn the Internet into almost an Internet for each interest group, zone, ideology, country, etc. And without interconnection between all of them.
09:29:14 From Joanna Kulesza [ALAC EURALO] to Everyone:
    A recent interesting take on Closed Generics is also here: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2022/09/giving-big-corporations-closed-generic-top-level-domain-names-run-private-kingdoms
09:29:46 From Nigel Hickson GAC UK to Everyone:
    On Internet Fragmentation there are various resources referenced on the background for Plenary later.  
09:31:10 From AR_Gabriela Mattausch to Everyone:
    on the issue of closed generics not only "public interest" (concept not yet operationalized) but also "the promotion of competition" is in the interest of governments and established in the Icann Bylaws (section 4.6)
09:33:07 From Holly Raiche to Everyone:
    There may be a cross over between Jonathan's approach to identify the harms and possible anti-competitive effects of closed genenrics
09:33:44 From Nigel Hickson GAC UK to Everyone:
    +1; Joanna a good paper indeed. 
09:38:44 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
    Of course, the paper fails to mention there has been no proof of these harms. Look at .TRAVEL and ..JOBS that could be considered canaries in this particular coal mine.
09:39:27 From Joanna Kulesza [ALAC EURALO] to Everyone:
    +1 @Jonathan, RT#endorsements
09:39:35 From Gulten Tepe - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    You may find the slides being presented also published on GAC website at; https://gac.icann.org/sessions/icann75-session-10-gac-meeting-with-the-alac
09:41:34 From Gulten Tepe - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    GAC Members and Observers may also review the briefings posted on the same page (log-in required)
09:46:49 From Indonesia ashwin sasongko to Everyone:
    Dear Joanna, What ALAC/ Your opinion on the development of large scale IntraNet, that may cover most part of a country, baut connected with ICANN Internet through Gateway(s) for higher Security ?
09:48:19 From Indonesia ashwin sasongko to Everyone:
    Perhaps other ALAC members may give their opinion on my question above ?
09:54:13 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
    I think your "intranet" idea is a slippery slope and the risks of censorship and economic discrimination far outweigh any security benefits
09:56:19 From Bill Jouris to Everyone:
    @Jonathan, that is certainly a constant risk.  However there may be occasions/circumstances where the creation of a national Intranet is the most expeditious way to provide access at all to the Internet to broad groups who otherwise would not get it.  Or, at least, not get it in a timely manner.
09:56:49 From Bill Jouris to Everyone:
    In short, the "least bad" option
09:56:53 From Alberto Soto to Everyone:
    <question> My question for whoever wants to answer. With various possibilities of fragmentation of the Internet: don't you think that at some point Intes becomes a tower of Babel, due to ideologies, personal concepts, governmental, etc., without the possibility of a connection between these fragmentations?<question>
09:58:29 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
    +1 Susan
09:58:40 From Ian Sheldon - GAC Australia to Everyone:
    +1 Susan. End user perspective important in this big picture challenge
09:58:48 From DANIEL K. NANGHAKA to Everyone:
    Internet fragmentation has a direct correlation to the splinternet
09:58:59 From Nigel Hickson GAC UK to Everyone:
    Yes, indeed as Manal said is it great that  proposed process (on having updates re strategic plan) has spurned ALAC interest;  and indeed as Manal said no intention to have new structures as such.  
09:59:13 From Eduardo Díaz (NARALO chair) to Everyone:
    Internet fragmentation is composed of many “splinter” nets, hence  the splinternet
09:59:32 From Holly Raiche to Everyone:
    @ Bill.  I have really deep reservations about a national intranet - presumably in control of the relevant government - to provide access - to what, decided by whom and in whose interests?
10:00:58 From Bill Jouris to Everyone:
    @Holly, I'm sensitive to the possible (probable even) downsides.  My thought was only that *sometimes* (maybe rarely, but sometimes) the alternative is no access.
10:01:34 From Eduardo Díaz (NARALO chair) to Everyone:
    The word “splint” is used as a metaphor for something that was part of the whole and is now on its own
10:02:45 From Holly Raiche to Everyone:
    @ Bill - Maybe the response is to better understand WHY there is no address - and address that issue without constraining the global reach of the Internet
10:02:45 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
    BJ, it's hard for me to imagine how an intranet gets anyone additional access. You still the need the tools to go online.
10:02:52 From Tracy Hackshaw (UPU | .POST) to Everyone:
    Congratulations Jonathan and thanks very much Maureen!
10:02:56 From Ananda Gautam to Everyone:
    thanks for great leadership  Maureen
10:03:15 From Joanna Kulesza [ALAC EURALO] to Everyone:
    Thank you everyone!