Terri Agnew:Welcome to the At-Large Briefing call on Creating a Consumer Agenda at ICANN held on Thursday, 01 September 2016 at 22:30 UTC
Terri Agnew:agenda wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/pBesAw
Carlton Samuels:Howdy all
Terri Agnew:Welcome this call will begin in 35 minutes
Carlton Samuels:I'm in London so iif I don't get on now I shall be asleep in no time. And I'm recovering from jet lag too
Terri Agnew:Oh no, I wish we had at least some music to help keep you awake.
Terri Agnew:At-Large Creating a Consumer Agenda at ICANN Workspace: https://community.icann.org/x/MASbAw
Javier Rua-Jovet:Hi to all. I'm the new guy (after ICANN57)!
Wafa Dahmani:Hi all
Wafa Dahmani:Hi Javier
Javier Rua-Jovet:Hi!!
Wafa Dahmani:congratulation and welcome
Javier Rua-Jovet:Thanks!
Carlton Samuels:Hi Javier, congratulations on your selction for ALAC
Barrack Otieno:1.17 am in Nairobi
Terri Agnew:Thanks for joining at such an early morning hour Barrack!
Barrack Otieno:thanks Terry i am trying to stay awake :-)
Javier Rua-Jovet:Thanks Carlton!
Wafa Dahmani:Hi Barrack
Barrack Otieno:Hello Wafa, how are you?
Wafa Dahmani:fine what about you?
Barrack Otieno:great thank you
Barrack Otieno:working late into the night
Wafa Dahmani:now it's 23.20 in Tunisia i'm more lucky than you in term of time :)
Barrack Otieno:great, will try and follow the meeting for a while
Wafa Dahmani:hardworking as usual Barrack
Barrack Otieno:thank you Wafa
Maureen Hilyard:Hi everyone
Wafa Dahmani:Hi Maureen
Holly Raiche:Greetings all
Wafa Dahmani:Hi Holly
Harold Arcos:Greetings all, Saludos a todos.
Holly Raiche:Hi Terri - I did request a dial out?? Tks
Terri Agnew:Hi Holly, yes, the op will be calling shortly
Alfredo Calderon:Hello to all!
Heidi Ullrich:Hi All! Welcome, Javier, incoming NomCom Selected ALAC member from North America.
Alberto Soto:Hello everyone, hola a todos!!
Aída Noblia:Hola a todos
Eve Edelson:Hi all
Gunela Astbrink:Hi everyone
Abdeldjalil Bachar Bong:Hello all
Abdeldjalil Bachar Bong:Bonsoir à tous
Glenn McKnight:Hi all.
Javier Rua-Jovet:Thanks Heidi!
Holly Raiche:Et bonsoir
Glenn McKnight:Did they ever hire the Consumer Trust person ?
Holly Raiche:Is there such a thing as a Consumer Trust person?
Glenn McKnight:Yes, Icann was to hire someone. They were looking for help to do the job description
Glenn McKnight:It was a promise by Fadi
Humberto:hello
Glenn McKnight:I will phone him
Holly Raiche:Yep - but I'm still smiling
Abdeldjalil Bachar Bong:Si Possible un dial-out sur la canal Francais au 0023566274284 Merci
Harold Arcos:https://community.icann.org/display/alacpolicydev/At-Large+Creating+a+Consumer+Agenda+at+ICANN+Workspace
Ariel Liang:page 2 - bolded text
Ariel Liang:paragraph 2
Glenn McKnight:I left him a phone message
Evan:My own issue with "consumer" is that it connotes a transaction
Glenn McKnight:Diplo Foundation aka Internet Governance recent book has a section on consumer - user section
Gunela Astbrink:There's also the term 'end-user'
Glenn McKnight:I like the term end user
Garth Graham:I agree with using the term users
Glenn McKnight:@Gunella great minds think alike
Humberto:me too
Eve Edelson:I assume applicants for gTLD would not be covered by this whether speaking of consumers or users?
Evan:That "consumer" means "purchaser", and end users who do not buy domains are not consuming domains
Javier Rua-Jovet:"User" is easilly understood.
Glenn McKnight:Everyoine is a consumer but different then End users\
Barrack Otieno:Correct Glen
Humberto:i agree with Alberto as well
Barrack Otieno:End Users have specific requirements
Holly Raiche:I frankly don't care about the term - my fear is that we argue about the term and don't get on with the real issues -
Glenn McKnight:Consumer has legal implications. End users doens't mean a financial transaction
Wolf Ludwig:Plus 1 Holly
Glenn McKnight:no sound
Wafa Dahmani:+1 Holly
Terri Agnew:@Evan, we are no longer to hear you
Glenn McKnight:only someone laughing
Glenn McKnight:only someone laughing\
Louis Houle:Hi everyone. Bonjour!
Louis Houle:Sorry to be late. Traffic jam....
Evan:I HATE ADOBE CONNECT
Holly Raiche:That is NEVEER Evan just being polite - he ALWAYS has things to say
Wafa Dahmani:lost again
Abdeldjalil Bachar Bong:consumer vs ''Consumer of Internet' vs end user consumer
Evan:please call me at +41 76 779 0574
Ariel Liang:On it - re notes
Evan:The point I was trying to make: The term "Consumer" is already in use within ICANN, and if we redefine it for our use it will just cause confusion.
Evan:The existing definition -- user, for instance, in the CCCT review team -- defines it as registrants AND end users
Terri Agnew:@Evan, calling
Holly Raiche:I think you are talking about an impact statement - great idea
Louis Houle:@ Evan: Which is the good term to use! Consumer is confusing and to narrow in some ways!
VANDA:sorry running late, but i am here
Garth Graham:Sometimes an an impact statement is called an equity statement.
Holly Raiche:Agree with Alan - Who speaks for registrants - agree with OCL - they are a subset
Evan:In the mind of some in ICANN, every end user is simply a potential registrant who hasn't been sold a domain yet :-P
Wolf Ludwig:My problem is, if I get out and talk to Internet-affine people about "consumers" they laugh at me! "Users" is more common and appropriate while "end-"users is confussing again -- proviking questions like what's the difference between a middle or an end user?
Holly Raiche:Good question Wolf
Holly Raiche:@ Wolk - maybe a beter question - do we represent registrants as a subset of user
Evan:Arguably "middle" user is an ISP. End user connotes the final link in the chain between content provider and content viewer
Holly Raiche:Sorry - Wolf
Holly Raiche:@ Evan - I don't think we want to stick up for ISPs
VANDA:guess we all agree there is conflicts in this arrange
Evan:Further confusing the situation is that there is another ICANN constituency -- the Non-Commercial USERS Constiturncy -- that is already a part of the GNSO
Harold Arcos:Indeed Vanda
Wolf Ludwig:Don't worry -- we just need to explain different *user" levels to people (simply and stupid) while the "consumer" term still sounds like ages back ...
VANDA:already agreed there is conflicts in this arrange - i posted in the middle of the users comments
Holly Raiche:@ OCL - I hope you said we DO want the reviews complete FIRST - good commenr
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:Yes, I did. It all came from our straw poll in the gTLD WG
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:and this was recorded & minuted.
Holly Raiche:Is that a task for US
Evan:We face a staggering problem -- our ability to bring forth a consumer agenda iin compliance s severely constrained by the RAA. Anything that hurts consumers that is outside the scope of the RAA is beynd ICANN's ability to enforce.
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:@Holly: 1. *do not start the process of a subsequent round until all necessary reviews have been completed* and their reports and recommendations have been fully considered by the ICANN community and Board. This includes not just the Subsequent Procedures PDP referenced in Chairman Crocker’s letter but also the RPM Review PDP and the Consumer Choice, Competition and Trust Review mandated by the Affirmation of Commitments.
Garth Graham:Sometimes an impact statement is called an equity statement. That makes it a statement about who benefits and who pays before the fact, allowing for a situational measure of what the result of the action was after the fact.
Holly Raiche:@ Garth - I like the term
VANDA: yes, the ignorance about ICANN here for isntance is huge, we need to go deeply with the information to start
Holly Raiche:It should be well and truly in ICANN's remit - and we should be part of it
Gunela Astbrink:@Evan - agreed
Andrew Molivurae:@ Evan I agree
VANDA:@ agree with Holly. I am doing an study about new gTLD in LAC region and first question you know what ICANN is... nobory really knows and who is reponsible for any issue related to ICANN x Internet
Evan:If it's done it's very well hidden
Holly Raiche:If ICANN staff are - where is it being done - why weren't we involved - and we should be involved in any case
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:perhaps an action item to find out if it exists?
Heidi Ullrich:Beginner's Guides: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/beginners-guides-2012-03-06-en
Evan:What about contravening OICs?
Evan:PICs?
Holly Raiche:OCL - the action item should go further - so Heidi - maybe for Hyderabad - we should have a discussion about what is there - or not
Eve Edelson:@ Vanda - most of my IT colleagues seem to be at best, dimly aware of role of ICANN - their view is strictly technical
Heidi Ullrich:@Holly, I believe staff could assist in the development of a BG to Consumer Issues. We also have a couple of Consumer Groups as ALSes. Perhaps a sub-group of the Public Interest WG could assist...
VANDA:realted to this item we will have next Sept 14 a discussion here in SP about this item
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:@Heidi - yes the Beginner's guides. I thought that Rob or something in Policy was going to freshen some up, especially the one on domain names?
Eve Edelson:@ Heidi - thanks, yes, I should point my colleagues there
Holly Raiche:@ Vanda - I'd love to heoutcomes of th discussion
Evan:Sigh. We've been asking for this as longas I've been involved in At-Large
VANDA:yes i am without mic now...
Glenn McKnight:Howard Deane of the Consumer Council of Canada was to submitted something
VANDA:will be publish the result of study for sure
Evan:Can someone please send out information that ICANN IS NOT THE INTERNET. To read current media reports and comments by politicians such as US Senator Ted Cruz, one would think that the IANA transittion represents "handing over the Internet". It is all our interests for the public to undetstand that ICANN oversees but a small part of the Internet -- names and numbers
Holly Raiche:@ Alan - I think the point is that the information isn't reasonably easy to find
VANDA:item 5 has different organizations doing all of that , security groups have done intrusions
Holly Raiche:@ Vanda - true enough, but how easy is it to find tha information
VANDA:of course it is not in one page, but the focus could be colect all that is done
Eve Edelson:Apologies all, work requires me to step away
VANDA:@ evan.... you right. here the few that know something about ICANn has this wrong concept
Eve Edelson:Evan you are right, I have to go, but misleading sound bytes need a sound bytey response
Alan Greenberg:https://www.cruz.senate.gov/internetcountdownclock/
VANDA:you righ Alan...kkkk
Alejandro Pisanty:There's tons of materials out there, not only by ICANN. Look at Andrew Sullivan's recent writings too. Our organizations have to come together for once and realize that bickering about ICANN cannot be our only business. How about ALAC leadership writing up something that we can all spread around?
Holly Raiche:It's all about easy to find, simple information that needs to be upfront - on the home page
Holly Raiche:@ Alejandro - agree. I think that is what we are asking for
VANDA:@holly + Alex - exactly
Holly Raiche:Andrew is such good value
Carlton Samuels:Lost audio for a bit
Harold Arcos:The ignorance on Governance Internet is general around world. The differences In case of politicians is they takes decisions or get interference to take them.
Holly Raiche:@ Carlton - pity - Alex said what he said in the chat - very well as always
VANDA:local ICANN engagement and myself we are writing some few articles to explain several issues regarding ICANN, domains, and TLDs and make agreemnts to have it published in portuguese.
Gunela Astbrink:Totally agree with Alejandro. This discussion makes it clear that easy to understand information needs to be a first step for creating the consumer agenda. There sure is a gap in knowledge between the average Internet end-user and the 'expert' At-Large members
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:Let's please check with ICANN what's going on. Check with Policy dept & check with GSE as well. Let's not reinvent the wheel. Perhaps step 1 is to list already everything that's in the process of being built as we speak.
Holly Raiche:An action item for ALT - to organise a team to work on the document
Holly Raiche:Also - maybe ask on this call for volunteers?
Gunela Astbrink:@OCL - definitely the first step. No need to reinvent the wheel
Garth Graham:If, “The Corporation shall operate for the benefit of the Internet community as a whole," then the things suggested for measurement in Sec 5 provide for an overview of use. If actions proposed by ICANN contained a statement of intentions related to who benefits and who pays, then what got measured and reported regarding the results of actions would, over time evolve what an overview needed to include.
Holly Raiche:@ Garth - I think that is basically the question Garth Bruen is asking
VANDA:dispute is about mediation more than judiciary process.
Garth Graham:I don't agree that this is a communications issue. It's really an accountability issue.
Evan:We have articles such as http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/08/29/icann-un-take-internet-oct-1/ appearing on very well-read websites. where can someone go at ICANN to get the actual facts on this in plain language?
Glenn McKnight:The staffer works for Trump from Breitart
Glenn McKnight:The staffer works for Trump from Breitart
Heidi Ullrich:@Evan, I will send your link and request to IcANN Communications.
ron da Silva:https://www.icann.org/stewardship-accountability
Carlton Samuels:@Evan: I'm not so sure it all matters. The constituency that Breitart represents is not given to reason. And they will not read or see the counter
Evan:The direct readers of Breitbart may be beyond help. But there are more benign media that take such things at face value. Facebook;s trending algorythms, for instance.
Holly Raiche:And we have all ready about Facebook's algorythms
Holly Raiche:Sorry - read about...
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:Before we close, let me remind you of the New gTLD Marketplace initiative: https://www.icann.org/news/blog/tracking-gtld-marketplace-health --- this has a potential to really serve end users so we should be helping out with this as much as we could
Evan:You're all missing the point. The issue is being proactive and understanding the languge of a public audience, not to be responsive to any particular meme
VANDA:thank you all, quite interesting points!
Javier Rua-Jovet:Goodbye to all.
Carlton Samuels:Bye all
Alberto Soto:Thanks!! Bye bye!!!
Heidi Ullrich:Thank you, all.
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:....and we have a Statement about the New gTLD Marketplace Health Index: https://community.icann.org/x/cAubAw
Kasek Galgal:Bye all
ABDELDJALIL BACHAR BONG:MERCI
Aída Noblia:bye all
Humberto:Thanks
VANDA:buy!
Maritza Aguero:thank you
Gunela Astbrink:Thanks, bye
Olivier Crepin-Leblond:thanks all
Aída Noblia:thnks
Maureen Hilyard:Thanks all
Harold Arcos:Thanks bye all
ABDELDJALIL BACHAR BONG:BYE BYE
Andrew Molivurae:thanks all bye
Winthrop Yu:Thank you!
Wafa Dahmani:thank you bye bye
