00:58:35 Dave Kissoondoyal: Hello everyone.. Greetings from Mauritius
00:58:52 David Mackey: Hi Dave, Hi Everyone from Canada :-)
00:59:05 Alexandre Hugla (Gandi): Hello From Paris !
00:59:26 Maureen Hilyard - ALAC: Hi everyone from the Cook Islands
00:59:37 JG: Hi everyone from VIENNA!!!!!! :)
00:59:46 hadia Elminiawi: Hello from Egypt
00:59:55 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: Hi all from Australia
01:00:00 Abdeldjalil Bachar Bong: hello from Chad /Bonsoir depuis le Tchad
01:00:00 Herb Waye Ombuds: Greetings from the Office of the Ombudsman. The Ombuds team is hosting a virtual drop-in office for ICANN69. Details are posted in the “Conversation” forum on the meeting home page. Stay safe and be kind.
01:00:13 Gisella Gruber: A truly international session! Greetings from Bath, UK
01:00:14 Yrjo Lansipuro: Hi from Fimland
01:00:21 Yrjo Lansipuro: Finland
01:00:34 León Felipe Sánchez Ambía: Hello from Mexico!
01:00:38 Elisabeth Behsudi: Hello from Paris!
01:00:47 Michelle DeSmyter: “ Hello, my name is Michelle DeSmyter and I will be monitoring this chat room. In this role, I am the voice for the remote participants. Please note that I will only be able to read your comment/question within the time set by the Chair of this session.
When submitting a question or comment that you want me to read out loud on the mic, please start with a <QUESTION> and end with a “</QUESTION>” or <COMMENT> </COMMENT>. Text outside these quotes will be considered as part of “chat” and will not be read out loud on the microphone.
01:00:49 Nadira AL-ARAJ: Hello from the small town of Bethlehem
01:00:54 Michelle DeSmyter: This session also includes interpretation.
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01:01:03 Michelle DeSmyter: CONDUCT:
Please note that chat sessions are being archived and follow the ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior:http://www.icann.org/en/news/in-focus/accountability/expected-standardshttp://www.icann.org/en/news/in-focus/accountability/expected-standards.
01:02:33 Judith Hellerstein: HI All, Look forward to this session. Hi all!! Great to see you Matthias
01:03:20 Lilian Ivette Deluque: hi all
01:03:28 Heidi Ullrich: Welcome, All.
01:04:48 David Mackey: Is there a reason that “fraud” and “disinformation” are not included in the broad categories of DNS abuse?
01:06:11 Bill Jouris: @David, aren't those the kinds of crimes perpetrated *using* the various categories of DNS abuse listed? The aim, rather than the tool used.
01:06:27 David Mackey: @Bill Thanks.
01:06:44 Veni Markovski: Hi, everyone. The ICANN Government Engagement team has published several papers, including two on the processes at the United Nations. You can download them here: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/government-engagement-publications-2020-03-02-en
01:07:02 Bill Jouris: @David, a theory, not an expert ruling. ;-)
01:07:11 Veni Markovski: Yes, that’s what Joanna is talking about :)
01:07:56 David Mackey: @Bill, okay … I’m still coming up to speed on the complex topic. I found the following ICANN blog article helpful … https://www.icann.org/news/blog/icann-org-s-multifaceted-response-to-dns-abuse
01:12:12 James Galvin (Afilias): Will Matthias slides be posted?
01:12:25 Joanna Kulesza: I believe so James
01:12:34 Michelle DeSmyter: @James - yes, they will be posted
01:13:01 James Galvin (Afilias): And they just appeared! Like magic!
01:13:03 James Galvin (Afilias): Thanks so much.
01:13:12 Michelle DeSmyter: Your
01:13:16 Joanna Kulesza: Magic is how we work @James
01:13:18 Michelle DeSmyter: You’re quite welcome!
01:14:40 David McAuley (Verisign): can we also get link to slides
01:14:52 Alex Deacon: FWIW - the DNS abuse signatories have volunteered to follow these principles, they are not bound in anyway to follow them.
01:16:05 Michelle DeSmyter: @David - yes, https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/147850224/cyber%20ICANN%20ATLARGE%20Alexander%20Seger%2020%20Oct%202020_v1%20%20-%20%20Read-Only.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1603130454000&api=v2
01:16:20 David McAuley (Verisign): Thank you, Michelle
01:16:34 Michelle DeSmyter: When submitting a question or comment that you want me to read out loud on the mic, please start with a <QUESTION> and end with a “</QUESTION>” or <COMMENT> </COMMENT>. Text outside these quotes will be considered as part of “chat” and will not be read out loud on the microphone.
01:17:05 Judith Hellerstein: @michelle, the link was for Alexander’s slides and not Matthias’s
01:17:15 michaelrgraham: As to acting on “website content abuse” I (1) take it you mean “abuse of domain names” to conduct the acts you have listed, (2) the list should include other illegal acts (violation of privacy rights or rights of publicity; offering and sale of counterfeit goods and services; posting of counterfeit websites; and violation of other rights).
01:17:33 Michelle DeSmyter: Thank you Judith, my apologies, here are Matthias’ slides: https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/147850224/Final%20-%20Current%20legislative%20processes%20and%20their%20impact_Matthias%20M.%20Hudobnik_final_2JK%20%20-%20%20Read-Only.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1603204562559&api=v2
01:18:17 David Mackey: These are good questions, if not easy to answer.
01:20:05 Matthias M. Hudobnik: @ alex you are right you voluntered to these principles
01:25:22 Judith Hellerstein: Yes and the capacity building is called Glacy+
01:25:54 Vanda Scartezini: sorry was attending in parallel the hamburg’s
01:26:25 Judith Hellerstein: Yes. I have to watch that one at a later time
01:26:38 Olevie Kouami / Sénégal: Glacy+ ? @Judith
01:26:57 Michelle DeSmyter: When submitting a question or comment that you want me to read out loud on the mic, please start with a <QUESTION> and end with a “</QUESTION>” or <COMMENT> </COMMENT>. Text outside these quotes will be considered as part of “chat” and will not be read out loud on the microphone.
01:27:05 Judith Hellerstein: Yes, it is the COE capacity building activities on the CPOC
01:27:24 Olevie Kouami / Sénégal: OK. Thank you
01:27:30 Joanna Kulesza: Thank you for mentioning this @Judith, I will kindly ask Alex to tell us more about Glacy +
01:27:35 stephanieeperrin: <QUESTION> With respect to safeguards, why not insist that those who wish to sign on to Budapest must also sign on to Convention 108? QUESTION
01:27:59 Joanna Kulesza: Noted @Stephanie, thank you!
01:28:10 Judith Hellerstein: Yes and Papua New Guinea is looking at joining the Budapest Convention
01:28:33 Dave Kissoondoyal: Glad to hear the name of my country, Mauritius
01:28:38 Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: If "Beyond Budapest" is a 'provocative" title as the Speaker mentioned, perhaps "Budapest + " would make him comfortable..
01:30:35 stephanieeperrin: <QUESTION>. In terms of jurisdiction, will there be a data protection oversight office such as exists in Europe in Eurojust? Similar problems, with respect to TBDF and needs a data protection oversight solution. QUESTION
01:31:04 Olevie Kouami / Sénégal: </Question : what is the state of Relationship between the Budapest convention and the Malabo convention ?/>
01:31:11 Joanna Kulesza: Noted @Stephanie, thank you.
01:31:23 Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: The answer to cross jurisdictional issues is a cross jurisdictional court
01:32:06 Joanna Kulesza: @Olieve,noted.
01:32:35 Ananda Gautam (Internet Governance Institute): Hello everyone greetings from Nepal
01:32:40 Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: That was meant to be a question. Could there be a cross jurisdictional judicial, responsive, swift process?
01:32:55 Ananda Gautam (Internet Governance Institute): I am very interested in DNS Abuse topics of ICANN
01:32:58 Ananda Gautam (Internet Governance Institute): Really inspired :)
01:33:01 Michelle DeSmyter: When submitting a question or comment that you want me to read out loud on the mic, please start with a <QUESTION> and end with a “</QUESTION>” or <COMMENT> </COMMENT>. Text outside these quotes will be considered as part of “chat” and will not be read out loud on the microphone.
01:34:46 Dave Kissoondoyal: Thanks a lot @Alex
01:34:59 Vanda Scartezini: thank you Alex.
01:35:02 Judith Hellerstein: <Question> Do countries need to sign on to all additional protocols when they accede to the convention and how does it work?</Question>
01:35:08 Ananda Gautam (Internet Governance Institute): Great presentation Alex
01:35:15 David Mackey: @Siva Your question about a “cross jurisdictional court” is quite challenging.
01:35:22 Judith Hellerstein: Yes great questions
01:35:29 Vanda Scartezini: have the same Question as Judith
01:35:32 Judith Hellerstein: and great presentation
01:35:45 Abdulkarim Oloyede : Thanks Mathias and Alex
01:35:48 David Mackey: @Judith, yes! an excellent presentation :-)
01:35:58 Elisabeth Behsudi: <QUESTION> re legal basis for requests for the disclosure of domain name registration information across parties to this protocol” - by parties—we mean governments? Not individuals or non-governmental entities?
01:36:09 stephanieeperrin: Thanks very much to Alex, this was a great presentation!
01:36:21 Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: @ David It appears challenging but may not really be once it is detailed..
01:37:12 David Mackey: @Siva I guess it depends on the level of cynicism one might have on the limits of global cooperation
01:37:55 stephanieeperrin: Whether one is cynical or not, the effectiveness of the oversight, including Courts, always depends on how it is resourced
01:38:33 Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: Creative great minds from Judiciary and Law Order should be able to come up with interesting proposals, why talk about cynicism at inception, before even the thoughts are generated by think tanks, for instance?
01:38:48 Bill Jouris: @Siva, a lot of bureaucratic processes appear challenging when first encountered. But with experience, they are tedious, but not really that difficult to walk thru the various required steps.
01:38:49 David Mackey: @Stephaniee Agreed, appropriate resourcing is an important part of the solution
01:40:07 Olevie Kouami / Sénégal: oui
01:40:12 stephanieeperrin: There are many many jurisdictions, including my own, where the budget allocations for Courts and all the attendant costs, including judges, buildings, support, criminal defence, are just not there
01:40:32 stephanieeperrin: So while we all believe in the rule of law, we must fund it too
01:41:41 Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: @ Bill This need not even be a bureaucratic process, but more of a process akin to how modern corporates generate ideas and bring them to life. Bureaucratic processes are inevitable, but needs to be deferred to a phase when the solution is outlined in detail by a creative group.
01:42:06 Lori Schulman: @Stephanie Perrin - agree about resource allocation. I heard MLAT mentioned as a tool. MLAT notoriously slow.
01:42:54 Narayanaswamy .B: Fine presentation Mr. Alexs.
01:43:41 Rick Lane: Question - The US Federal Trade Commission has seen an increase in online consumer fraud around the COVID-19 pandemic. Has the lack of access to WHOIS data due to GDPR hindered law enforcement investigations and enforcement - Question
01:43:48 Zakir: <question> this is Zakir - icann fellow from pakistan. thanks for the very useful discussion. my question from Alex please. Since there is a heated debate going on about the UN treaty on cyber crime (proposed by Russia) which has already got considerable support. do you think that both, this UN Cybercrime Treaty and Budapest Convention with its new protocol will coexists and go side by side? thank you. </Question>
01:43:55 Vanda Scartezini: quite good information thank you - I was really not full aware about the Budapest convention
01:44:32 Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: @Stephanie Different countries face different limitations with existing judicial frameworks, no country in an exception - it is just that the nature of problem varies.
01:45:09 Zakir: @Vanda, yes, very useful indeed. you might also want to explore the UN Cybercrime Treaty. something along the same lines.
01:45:18 David Mackey: @Siva I think Alexs raised an important point about the political commitment required which would support any action … political agreement can help fight against cynicism and support required trust
01:45:49 Joanna Kulesza: @Zakir - let's not there is _no_ UN treaty yet
01:46:08 Philippe Fouquart: <QUESTION> on the last bulletpoint on your last slide the "discussions on legal basis of the Protocol for request re. whois data", Alex, did you mention consultation of various stakeholders within ICANN to collect/confront/consolidate views on this? If so, in what form and what timeframe?
01:46:17 Zakir: @the proposed one. i meant.
01:46:41 Olevie Kouami / Sénégal: https://rm.coe.int/CoERMPublicCommonSearchServices/DisplayDCTMContent?documentId=09000016806bf0f8
01:46:44 Olevie Kouami / Sénégal: oui
01:46:59 stephanieeperrin: A requirement for a data protection authority in a recipient state is a great start. I hope the funding and success rates of those DPAs will be evaluated in terms of adequacy. Thanks for addressing my questions!
01:47:29 Judith Hellerstein: @joana I asked another question which Vanda also said was the same she had
01:47:40 Karin Jeannette Canales Bustos: hello everyone, Cybercrime is a huge issue that must not become a part of our lifes. How to deal with this problem? A problem is an error or mistake. Therefore the solution is a complete platform indicating and controlling the threats and effective information for knowledge basis and for effective procedure decissions. Remember technology is interesting but it shall never turn against us as individuals , as companies or governments.
01:48:02 hadia Elminiawi: <Question>@Alex criminal justice actions, are for sure outside ICANN's remit. but can ICANN have an active role when it comes to international cooperation and DNS related cybercrime<Question>
01:48:12 Olevie Kouami / Sénégal: Merci Alex
01:49:00 stephanieeperrin: We need reliable metrics, not just in the need and use of data used in the enforcement of cybercrime laws/protection (including private sector blacklist brokers) and on the data protection offices. GDPR has brought meaningful enforcement, we need harmonized measurement of results.
01:49:33 stephanieeperrin: COMMENT> We need reliable metrics, not just in the need and use of data used in the enforcement of cybercrime laws/protection (including private sector blacklist brokers) and on the data protection offices. GDPR has brought meaningful enforcement, we need harmonized measurement of results. COMMENT
01:49:59 Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: Alex is talking about swiftness in execution part, what is needed is swiftness in the process that leads to execution
01:50:28 Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: ... in execution phase ...
01:50:32 Olevie Kouami / Sénégal: </Comment : La convention de Budapest parle de cybercriminalité, celle de Malabo parle de cybersécurité et protection de données en Afrique />
01:50:44 Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: Thank you Joanna
01:51:33 David Mackey: @Olevie Merci
01:53:18 Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: @ David Solutions can also be outlined in anticipation of political commitment ...
01:53:45 David Mackey: @Siva Agreed!!
01:53:54 Alan Woods (Donuts): <comment> The clarity of legal due process in official requests for disclosure for WHOIS access, will of course make thing much stronger and will be very welcome for any contracted party in the fulfilling our obligations as controller <comment>
01:54:01 MarcoH: actually interesting, as obviously the convention is a matter of nation states, would there be something along the lines of Ruggie for private actors to support the convention by their own means and to their own capabilities?
01:55:53 Karin Jeannette Canales Bustos: The more we spent in cybercrime (time, thinking, costs, control) , the less progress might be achieved looking to achieve quality products. The % on cybersecurity to be considered in business is the question to answer. Tell me the estimated % and I'll tell you what will happen.
01:56:38 Monika Ermert (eLance journalist): @marcoH, there was a guideline document ISP developed together with the CoE on ISP-LEA cooperation, but that was outside of the Budapest Convention - https://www.coe.int/en/web/cybercrime/lea-/-isp-cooperation
01:57:29 Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: @ David There are models of cross jurisdictional benches within a country, such models can inspire global models, and there are examples of online hearings and swift judgements that can also be a basis for such a cross jurisdictional process for the DNS, but beyond existing, rare examples, this needs to be a far more creative framework.
01:57:42 Zakir: yea true. but this is how they are calling it.
01:57:54 Zakir: thank you Alex.
01:58:09 David Mackey: @Siva Agreed again … lots of room for creativity and innovation here.
01:58:18 stephanieeperrin: COMMENT <Information crime in my opinion would be broader and more appropriate> COMMENT
01:58:22 Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: @ David Thank you
01:58:42 Vanda Scartezini: quite interesting Joanna. congrats great agenda !!!
01:58:57 Karin Jeannette Canales Bustos: To the point: This issue must be stopped and controlled. Adding more problems to business , personal life and countries is litterally the same as stealing capacity building.
01:59:04 Philippe Fouquart: Thanks Alex.
01:59:47 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: Excellent and highly informative session today thank you to @Alex, @Matthias and especially @Joanna
01:59:56 margiemilam: Thank you!
02:00:01 David Mackey: Great session! Thank you to all presenters and those who put it together behind the scenes. :-)
02:00:12 Judith Hellerstein: Yes. Excellent session. Thanks Joanna for organizing it
02:00:25 Olevie Kouami / Sénégal: Great session, indeed
02:00:33 stephanieeperrin: +1 excellent session
02:00:35 Olevie Kouami / Sénégal: Congratulations to all
02:00:35 Dave Kissoondoyal: Yes great session indeed
02:00:35 Zakir: thank you Joanna. thank you Matthias and great thanks Alex. very interesting topic and useful discussion.
02:00:39 Katambi Joan: Thanks a lot Team, its been very informative
02:00:49 Calvin Browne: Thanks all!
02:00:52 Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: @ David The cross border nature of the Internet is now agreed upon. Why do we have a mismatch when it comes to how issues arising out of the cross-jurisdictional Internet are expected to be subjected to a geographical jurisdiction.. (This is not well phrased yet)
02:00:54 Lori Schulman: Very good and timely information.
02:01:01 Hanan khatib: thank you all
02:01:20 Abdulkarim Oloyede : Good to hear all this and I really enjoyed this session
02:01:23 David Mackey: @Siva, more work needs to be done, eh? lol Cheers! Thanks for your ideas.
02:01:26 Heidi Ullrich: Thank you, all.
02:01:29 Tripti Sinha: Thank you! Very informative session.
02:01:31 Abdeldjalil Bachar Bong: Merci bye
02:01:32 hadia Elminiawi: Thank you Joanna for a very interesting session
02:01:33 Vanda Scartezini: very good thanks to all see you tomorrow
02:01:36 Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: Thank you David
02:01:37 Dave Kissoondoyal: Thanks @Joanna,panelits and organisors
02:01:38 Satish Babu: Thanks to Joanna and the speakers...bye!
02:01:39 Chokri Ben Romdhane: Sorry for being late
02:01:40 hadia Elminiawi: thank you our speakers
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