Sub-group Members:  Andreea Brambilla, Avri Doria, Cheryl Langdon-Orr, Finn Petersen, Fiona Asonga, Herb Waye, Lito Ibarra, Mathieu Weill, Pam Little, Rachel Pollack, Rafik Dammak, Dalila Rahmouni, Sebastien Bachollet   (13)

Observers/Guests:  Amal Al-saqqaf, Julie Hammer   (2)

Staff:  Brenda Brewer, Elizabeth Andrews, Julia Charvolen, Karen Mulberry, Meghan Healy   (5)

Apologies:  Corinne Cath

** If your name is missing from attendance or apology, please send note to **




1. Roll Call

2. Review of Actions items

3. Review of Draft Report:

- Issues list

4. AOB

- Finalizing questionnaire

- Diversity office discussion

Notes (including relevant portions of chat):

1.     Welcome and review of the agenda, and items for the upcoming work

2.     Review of Actions items

Three pending action items

1.Office diversity on the mailing list

2. Getting documentation about Global Enrollment from Chris Grift

3. More feedback on Global Account project feedback - pending input

3.     Review of Draft Report:[]

- Issues list -  Open Items

Reviewed text from the mailing list exchanges and comments noted in the draft report.

- Noted exchange on the list regarding definitions need for diversity and skills .  Discussed the text from the email list exchanges - Avri version noted - "Ensuring 
that ICANN is open to diverse participation is essential to fulfilling the range of skills and experience necessary for ICANN. If an original assessment of candidates 
is not sufficiently diverse to fulfill the skill, experience and diversity requirements necessary, then efforts need to be redoubled until diversity is achieved."

- Discussion on diversity as an other to skills rather than as part of the skills and experiences - it is essential and the three are equivalent - diversity, skills and 
experience are a set

- From the chat - there appears to be support for this approach

- Section titled as Elements of Diversity, this is what we are seeking in terms of diversity in skills and age, etc.  problem could be in diverse set of 
skills to contribute to the work - the way its currently expressed may have confused the intent of the text.

- Noted that diversity comes in second unless its required, example bylaw regarding the Board. Should not subordinate one thing to the others in the set

- May move the proposed text to another section and add more details to avoid more confusion 

- Example noted SSAC - seeks to have diversity in the skill set and experiences of its members. Quite important to note that skills are an important part 
of diversity  in order to fulfill their role

- Need to try and get different profiles - Text trying to highlight we are looking for skills sets and not against any other form of diversity.  Need to have a commitment to have diverse profiles

- Have one proposal from Avri and have consensus to add to the document, with opportunity to make further comments on the mailing list  as needed.

avri doria: i did not use the words hand in glove, but i think that is the intent of a interenrated set of elements that all need to met.

- Another issue noted - gender, one section of the text has approach to gender as a binary.  Intention is to allow self identification rather than binary 
gender identification.  Facebook example noted of having over 50 categories for reporting

- Need to continue this discussion and look at investigate best practices in better ways for itself gender identification, will continue investigation as ICANN 
appears to ave a binary approach

- Noted FIONA ASONGA: We could recommend that ICANN figure out how to accommodate the gender diversity

- Need to provide flexibility in how people define themselves

- Need to look at diversity in how its handled in NonCom and other areas where people are appointed to roles within ICANN

- Noted avri doria: i think that if other is included and lots of people start to check it, then it may be worth digging deeper someday.

- Another area noted for discussion - Age.

- Noted that diversity of age means having all generations included older generation and the young

- Recommendations and suggestion section needs text added.  Please have exchange on the mailing list so this can be developed

4.     AOB

          - Finalizing questionnaire

- Need to finalize the questionnaire - previously called for consensus on the text but there are two questions that need to be clarified before 
releasing the questionnaire to the SO/ACs

- Need what Elements of diversity that are important in order to propose wording.

Noted Mathieu Weill: Which, if any, of these elements of diversity are relevant to your SO/AC/group?Are there any additional elements of diversity not listed that are important to your SO/AC/group? If so, please provide details of these.  

- Discussion on rewording and possible merging of the questions with the use of the term important.

- Changing wording from relevant to important, acceptable, however there are two aspects to the question/additional elements of diversity that need to be 
considered as a particular group may have other elements of diversity that are "important"

- ACTION ITEM - Will send a revised version of the questionnaire to the mailing list and will target to present the final agreed text to the next Plenary

 (March) for discussion and approval 

          - Diversity office discussion

- Noted RAHMOUNI Dalila: For the recommendation to create a permanent diversity office in Helsinki, which has received many supporters in our 
subgroup, I believe that this structure should be seen as an asset to help refine the work of the subgroup Once the WS2 is finished.I propose to 
include it in the report, in item 4. "A permanent structure to enhance diversity: the Office for Diversity

- Broader discussion and needs to occur between the Ombuds group on this suggestion and recommendation as to where it needs to be located - Ombuds or Complaints

- Noted avri doria: i do not think you want to put diversity in complaints.or legal

avri doria: of course i am not sure complaints belonged in legal either, but that is another story.

-  Not talking about implementation - leave that to ICANN staff to consider but do need to focus on the elements that are need to be part of the Diversity Office

Action Items

Will send a revised version of the questionnaire to the mailing list and will target to present the final agreed text to the next Plenary (March) for   discussion and approval 

Documents Presented

Chat Transcript

 Yvette Guigneaux: (2/16/2017 20:04) Welcome all to the Diversity Subgroup Meeting #12  | 17 February 2017 @ 13:00 UTC!

  Rafik: (2/17/2017 06:55) hi

  Rafik: (06:56)

  Herb Waye Ombuds: (06:58) good day all...

  RAHMOUNI Dalila: (07:02) hello

  Rafik: (07:09) "Ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation is essential to fulfillingthe range of skills and experience necessary for ICANN. If an original assessment of candidates is not sufficiently diverse to fulfill the skill, experience and diversity requirements necessary, then efforts need to be redoubled until diversity is achieved."

  Mathieu Weill: (07:09) I am happy with Avri's version BTW

  avri doria: (07:09) i have alos added it as suggestion in the doc.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (07:12) agree @Avri

  Amal Al-saqqaf: (07:12) +1 for Avri's suggestion

  Amal Al-saqqaf: (07:13) I agree with Avri although I think it'll be challenging to be achieved during elections

  Rachel Pollack: (07:19) I also can't hear her

  Karen Mulberry: (07:20) It appers that she is no longer in the room

  Rachel Pollack: (07:21) you were talking about GNSO requirements that not everyone be from the same country

  RAHMOUNI Dalila: (07:23) Of course skills are important but I don't undersant why we make the distinction between skills and diversity.

  RAHMOUNI Dalila: (07:24) As for all position, skills are required

  avri doria: (07:25) i think that the pra ioffered syas very much what i think Julie is expressing.

  avri doria: (07:25) sorry aboyt the jumbled typing

  avri doria: (07:26) i did not use the words hand in glove, but i think that is the intent of a interenrated set of elements that all need to met.

  avri doria: (07:26) ... interelated set of elements ...

  FIONA ASONGA: (07:30) I don't think that is it. I think the challenges is more how to accomodate the diversity Avri

  avri doria: (07:31) and FB missed some

  FIONA ASONGA: (07:32) We could recommend that ICANN figure out how to accommodate the gender diversity

  avri doria: (07:32) i agree Fiona we have to accomodate all, but we dont fddo that by forcing people to be pink or blue.

  FIONA ASONGA: (07:32) Agreed Avri

  FIONA ASONGA: (07:32) And here is where we need help with the word smithing

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (07:33) agreed

  avri doria: (07:33) including other is the minimalist approach these days

  avri doria: (07:33) going to the fifty shades of gender is propbably premature.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (07:34) at least that is beyond s forced binary choice

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (07:35) that was in response to other not thrv50 shades point

  Rachel Pollack: (07:35) I must have missed the earlier discussion on this. is it really only a minority view within the group to look beyond the binary approach?

  avri doria: (07:37) yep we are not asking for sexual preference,

  FIONA ASONGA: (07:37) Rachel there wasn't suffecient discussion on it but since participation has been low we included all views

  avri doria: (07:38) i think that if other is included and lots of people start to check it, then it may be worth digging deeper someday.

  FIONA ASONGA: (07:38) Yes Avri

  Rachel Pollack: (07:38) Hi just to clarify, I think it's important to include it. My question was just whether it was actually a "minority representation" or in fact the majority view of this group

  avri doria: (07:38) but give peopel a chance to say they do not accept being stuck in the pink or blue folder.

  Rachel Pollack: (07:39) in the language of the google doc

  FIONA ASONGA: (07:39) Yes Avri

  FIONA ASONGA: (07:39) Racheal you may be looking at the second version of the strawman

  FIONA ASONGA: (07:39) not the report

  FIONA ASONGA: (07:41) True Avri

  Rachel Pollack: (07:42) uh oh, am I an old millenial? :)

  Mathieu Weill: (07:42) I'm setting things up for a specific "retired professionals" constituency

 Mathieu Weill: (07:42) :-)

  FIONA ASONGA: (07:43) Please do Mathieu :-)

  Mathieu Weill: (07:43) Long term view...

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (07:44) not long-term for some of us

  Mathieu Weill: (07:47) Come on Cheryl, you're 25 !

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (07:48) to the power of x

  Mathieu Weill: (07:50) These are the 2 questions I'm confused with

  Mathieu Weill: (07:50) Which, if any, of these elements of diversity are relevant to your SO/AC/group?Are there any additional elements of diversity not listed that are important to your SO/AC/group? If so, please provide details of these.  

  Julie Hammer (SSAC): (07:51) Is it an option to simply change "relevant" to "inportant" in Q 1?

  Mathieu Weill: (07:51) We could merge both questions into "important"

  FIONA ASONGA: (07:53) Yes Mathieu that is the orientation

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (07:54) yup

  Mathieu Weill: (07:56) OK, I understand now. It's addition beyond the 6 dimensions

  FIONA ASONGA: (07:56) Yes Mathieu

  Mathieu Weill: (07:56) Additrional language is in the Google Doc now

  Mathieu Weill: (07:56) Sorry for my confusion

  Julie Hammer (SSAC): (07:57) Examples from SSAC Discussions: Career Background, Time Involved in ICANN,...

  Julie Hammer (SSAC): (07:57) These were identified by SSAC as elements where diversity is important.

  Mathieu Weill: (07:57) The one after is Copenhagen

  FIONA ASONGA: (07:59) Ok Thanks Rafik

  Karen Mulberry: (08:00) We can give you an additional 5 mins

  FIONA ASONGA: (08:01) Thanks Karen

  RAHMOUNI Dalila: (08:02) For the recommendation to create a permanent diversity office in Helsiniki, which has received many supporters in our subgroup, I believe that this structure should be seen as an asset to help refine the work of the subgroup Once the WS2 is finished.I propose to include it in the report, in item 4. "A permanent structure to enhance diversity: the Office for Diversity

  avri doria: (08:03) i do not thik you want to put diversity in complaints.or legal

  avri doria: (08:03) of course i am not sure complaints belonged in legal either, but that is naother story.

  FIONA ASONGA: (08:04) Dalila it is already in the report

  Sebastien (ALAC): (08:04) Agree Avri

  Herb Waye Ombuds: (08:04) Diversity is not legislated so the community needs a champion not an enforcer

  Karen Mulberry: (08:04) There are two mins left for the call

  RAHMOUNI Dalila: (08:05) Yes Fiona but It will be better to integrate it in a proper item I thonk

  RAHMOUNI Dalila: (08:05) in a separet item

  Amal Al-saqqaf: (08:05) Isn't coming up with a "diversity policy" sufficient to be incorporated and adopted by all ICANN ACs/SOs rather than a diversity office?

  Finn Petersen, GAC - DK: (08:05) good - let us call it a finction

  Finn Petersen, GAC - DK: (08:05) gunction

  Finn Petersen, GAC - DK: (08:06) function

  Mathieu Weill: (08:06) Thanks Rafif & Fiona, good progress !

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (08:06) bye for now then

  Mathieu Weill: (08:06) RafiK of course

  Herb Waye Ombuds: (08:06) Great discussion, see you next time

  Lito Ibarra: (08:07) Bye, regards

  Rachel Pollack: (08:07) thank you! bon week-end

  Karen Mulberry: (08:07) Thank you all, great discssion

  RAHMOUNI Dalila: (08:07) thank


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