WEBINAR: CCWG - Accountability Briefing on Draft Proposal on Work Stream 1 Recommendations

In order to brief the community on the contents of their Draft proposal, the CCWG-Accountability will host two identical briefing webinars on Wednesday, 2 December at different times to facilitate participation across time zones. The webinars will take place on:

  • 2 December from 11:00 – 12:30 UTC (time zone converter here)
  • 2 December from 20:00 – 21:30 UTC (time zone converter here)

The webinars will be run in an Adobe Connect room. If you are interested in attending the webinar and would like to receive dial-in details, please send an email to acct-staff@icann.org and indicate your language request (if needed). The webinars will be recorded and transcribed. Live interpretation will be made available in English, Spanish, French, Chinese, Arabic, Russian and Portuguese.

Download the webinar slides here --> PDF

Webinar Slides Translation:  Pусский | العربية | Español | 中文 | Français | Português

Join the Adobe Connect room: https://icann.adobeconnect.com/si-webinar/.
Please be sure to contact acct-staff for dial in details. 

Read Webinar Q&As here -->  Webinar - Q&A

Attendance Stats here -->  Webinar Stats.pdf

Webinar 1 @ 11:00 UTC

Attendees:  Aarti Bhavana, Alain Bidron, Antonia Chu, ARI, Asha Hemrajani, Becky Burr, Boyoung Kim, Cheryl Langdon-Orr, Chris Disspain, Crescent, Farzaneh Badii, Finn Petersen, Fiona Aw, Gangesh Varma, Gary Hunt, Harold Arcos, houssaini@maec.gov.ma, Howard Li, Jaap Akkerhuis, Jean, Jian Chang, Joanna Malczewska, Jonathan Robinson, Jonathan Zuck, Joyce, Julia Wolman, Julie Hammer, Juuso Moisander, JX, Kaili Kan, Kavouss Arasteh, Leon Sanchez, Liana Teo, Lousewies van der Laan, Maciej Tomaszewski, Manal Ismail, Martin Boyle, Matthew Shears, Maura Gambassi, Michelle Scott Tucker, Mongi Marzoug, Niels ten Oever, Nigel Hickson, Nikki Hu, Olivier Crepin-Leblond, Panus, Pedro Ivo Silva, Peter Green, Phil Buckingham, Philadel Yeo, Philip Sheppard, Pitinan, Richard Pringle, Rinalia Abdul Rahim, Roelof Meijer, Ron da Silva, Rudi Vansnick, Sabine Meyer, Sébastien Bachollet, Sorina Teleanu, Steve DelBianco, Susan Payne, Suzanne Woolf, Tatiana Tropina, Thomas Rickert, Tom Dale, Tracy Hackshaw, Wafa Dahmani, Wanawit Ahkuputra, Yuri Takamatsu, Zdravko, Zheng Song   (72)


Adobe Connect recording: https://icann.adobeconnect.com/p6nof3kc8nm/

MP3 recording:  EN    ES    FR    AR    PT    RU    ZH  

Adobe Connect Chat:

Brenda Brewer: (12/2/2015 04:36) Welcome to the Informational Webinar 1 on CCWG-Accountability Draft Proposal on Work Stream 1 Recommendations on 2 December 2015 @ 11:00 UTC!   Chat sessions are being archived and follow the ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior: http://www.icann.org/en/news/in-focus/accountability/expected-standards

  Alice Jansen: (04:57) Please mute your line if not speaking.

  Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (04:58) good day all

  Niels ten Oever: (04:59) Hi all, is it only possible to dial in, not connect audio via browser?

  Leon Sanchez (CCWG Co-Chair, ALAC): (04:59) Hello everyone, we will be beginning in a minute

  Tom Dale (ACIG GAC Secretariat): (04:59) Hello, and many thanks to ICANN staff for their efforts.

  Tatiana Tropina: (05:00) Niels, there was a list of dial in numbers

  Tatiana Tropina: (05:00) or more precisely, the link to the list of the numbers

  Tatiana Tropina: (05:01) oh sorry, I thought you were asking about dialing in :)

  Niels ten Oever: (05:01) I know, but I'd prefer to connect audio via my browser

  Tatiana Tropina: (05:01) hm, I can connect....

  Tatiana Tropina: (05:02) or it seemed so :( no, I can't

  Niels ten Oever: (05:02) :'(

  Rudi Vansnick: (05:02) sorry for begin a bit late

  nigel hickson: (05:02) Good afternoon

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (05:03) Just starting Rudi

  Sabine Meyer (GAC - Germany): (05:04) hi everyone!

  Harold Arcos: (05:04) Hi all.

  Sabine Meyer (GAC - Germany): (05:04) mute/unmute is *6/*7?

  Harold Arcos: (05:05) Yes @Sabine in your cell phone mute/unmute is *6/*7.

  Sabine Meyer (GAC - Germany): (05:06) Thank you!

  Harold Arcos: (05:06) or *6/*6

  Thomas Rickert, CCWG Co-Chair: (05:08) Can those not speaking please mute their microphones?

  Asha Hemrajani: (05:10) There is quite a bit of background noise and typing near a microphone, a bit hard to hear Leon.

  Jonathan Robinson: (05:11) @Asha. Agree sounds like Leon may be a bit close to microphone with mic amplifier a little low

  Alice Jansen: (05:12) Link to Draft report: https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/draft-ccwg-accountability-proposal-work-stream-1-recs-30nov15-en.pdf

  wafa Dahmani: (05:26) I need a dial out in frensh

  wafa Dahmani: (05:26) i have it in english

  wafa Dahmani: (05:26) how to switch please

  Brenda Brewer: (05:27) Wafa, I will arrange a call to you on the French Channel

  wafa Dahmani: (05:27) thank you

  Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (05:29) Our 2nd draft proposal called for supermajority voting thresholds to exercise a community power (75%).   Our 3rd draft uses Support in the absence of substantial objections

  wafa Dahmani: (05:30) it's ok now

  Jonathan Zuck/ACT: (05:44) Sure. Okay.

  Asha Hemrajani: (05:44) Well explained Jonathan

  Jonathan Robinson: (05:44) <QUESTION> Does the very clear / distinct separation between IANA & ICANN budget represent a change in this draft?

  Jonathan Zuck/ACT: (05:48) @Jonathan, it does. In fact, the notion of a caretaker budget would explicitly include IANA functions funding

  Leon Sanchez (CCWG Co-Chair, ALAC): (05:49) there's a bit of echo

  Leon Sanchez (CCWG Co-Chair, ALAC): (05:49) friendly reminder to mute your microphones if you are not speaking

  Gary Hunt - UK Government: (05:51) @Brenda, when/will the slides be made available for download?

  Alice Jansen: (05:53) Link to annex 13: https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/draft-ccwg-accountability-proposal-annex-13-30nov15-en.pdf

  Alice Jansen: (05:53) @Gary - slides available at: https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=56984258

  Niels ten Oever: (05:59) audio of leon getting worse

  Asha Hemrajani: (05:59) Leon, your voice is very muffled

  Philip Sheppard BRG: (06:01) <QUESTION> why the reference to internationally recognised in place of a more specif reference such as the UDHR ? </QUESTION>

  Leon Sanchez (CCWG Co-Chair, ALAC): (06:02) @Philip, this was an issue widely discussed and it was agreed that no particular reference to any HR instrument would be made and instead this kind of reference would be fleshed out as part of WS2

  Philip Sheppard BRG: (06:03) Thanks - I would vote for certainty here !!

  Niels ten Oever: (06:04) @Philip, have you looked at the Annex, there is a quite a broad rational to be found there.

  Philip Sheppard BRG: (06:04) Thanks  - will do

  nigel hickson: (06:12) Geneva is cold...

  Susan Payne - Valideus: (06:13) <QUESTION> Re ST 18: The recommendation includes a statement that the GAC has autonomy to refine its Operating Procedures to specify how objections are raised and considered (eg disallowing a single country to continue an objection).  This isn't a Bylaws change presumably so where will this be captured ?  Although this is treated in the explanatory text as being limited to  a change to operating procedures where a single Govt is abusing its position there is no limit to this situation.  What safeguard is there that, in disallowing certain views, the GAC could not effectively change the definition of "formal objection".  <QUESTION>

  Gary Hunt - UK Government: (06:13) Many thanks Alice!

  Philip Sheppard BRG: (06:14) Q was answered thanks

  Susan Payne - Valideus: (06:17) my concern is that "formal objection" could be redefined.  Are you saying that all disallowed views will nhevertheless be reported to the Board

  Alice Jansen: (06:18) You are also welcome to voice your question on the call

  Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (06:18) @Susan -- the words "absence of any formal objection" are goig into ICANN bylaws.   GAC can't change that language.   GAC can, however, enact procedures or restrictions on how a GAC rep makes a "formal objection"

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (06:21) A great deal of effort wnet into gaining this cncensus language  for this report,  but significant work obviously still is required within the GACs own  OP's

  Brenda Brewer: (06:22) You may raise your hand to verbally ask questions.  Your mic will be activated at that time.  Be sure your computer mic is on.

  Brenda Brewer: (06:23) Harold Arcos: <QUESTION>Históricamente se cree que los DDHH son violados únicamente por los gobiernos pero ya es mundialmente conocido que las empresas también lo hacen. Entonces en la redacción sobre los DDHH dentro de los estatutos de ICANN debería estar presente un compromiso más explícito sobre hacer legalmente todo lo posible para garantizar que los DDHH de los usuarios finales no sean violados durante el uso de protocolos, identificadores únicos, entre otros recursos. Incluir esto es posible?<QUESTION>

  Brenda Brewer: (06:24) Harold Arcos: <QUESTION>Historically it is believed that the human rights are violated by governments alone but it is world renowned companies do too. Then in writing on Human Rights within ICANN's bylaws should be present a more explicit commitment to legally do everything possible to ensure that the human rights of end users are not violated while using protocols, unique identifiers, among other resources . Include this is possible?<QUESTION>

  Pedro Ivo Silva [GAC Brasil]: (06:27) <QUESTION> Where is the 5 out of 6 approval threshold for Chartering Organizations. Is it in the CCWG Charter? I could not find it there </Question>

  Harold Arcos: (06:27) Thanks a lot Leon

  Leon Sanchez (CCWG Co-Chair, ALAC): (06:27) De nada Harold!

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (06:29) Yes  thank yoiu all for joining we hope you all found this webinar useful...

  wafa Dahmani: (06:29) thank you all speakers interpreters particiapnts ..

  Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (06:29) @Pedro -- the CCWG charter desribes Full Consensus and Consensus -- where a small minority disagrees, but most agree.   (page 7)

  Gary Hunt - UK Government: (06:30) Thanksyou all for this webinar!

  Pedro Ivo Silva [GAC Brasil]: (06:30) @Steve: I guess this is related to the recommendations within the CCWG...not with respect to the COs.

  Leon Sanchez (CCWG Co-Chair, ALAC): (06:30) Thanks everyone!

  Alice Jansen: (06:30) Public comments can be submitted through 21 December - see https://www.icann.org/public-comments/draft-ccwg-accountability-proposal-2015-11-30-en for more information- The link to the survey is as follows: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/ccwg-acct-draftproposal

  Pedro Ivo Silva [GAC Brasil]: (06:30) But still, who says 5 out of 6 is still a consensus...I guess w haven't discussed this

  Leon Sanchez (CCWG Co-Chair, ALAC): (06:31) Please read the full proposal!

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (06:31) Bye everyine  Thank you all :-) 

  Niels ten Oever: (06:31) Thanks

  Niels ten Oever: (06:31) bye

  wafa Dahmani: (06:31) bye all

  Asha Hemrajani: (06:31) Thank you

  Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (06:31) bye all

  nigel hickson: (06:31) Very useful; thanks to all

  Gary Hunt - UK Government: (06:31) Good afternoon from London!

Webinar 2 @ 20:00 UTC

Attendees:  Alan Greenberg, Alex Deacon, Alison Hayman, Allan MacGillivray, Amparo Arango, Andrea Beccalli, Andres Piazza, Andrew Harris, Annaliese Williams, Anne Aikman-Scalese, Annebeth Lange, Avri Doria, Baher, Becky Burr, Carlos Raul, Carlton Samuels, Cheryl Langdon-Orr, Chris Wilson, Christopher Wilkinson, Chuck Gomes, David Maher, Dev Anand Teelucksingh, Erika Cook, Gisella Gruber, Greg DiBiase, Greg Shatan, Harold Arcos, James Cole, Jeff Neuman, Jim Prendergast, John Poole, Jonathan Zuck, Jordan Carter, Jorge Villa, Joseph Wright, Kavouss Arasteh, Ken Stubbs, Kevin Murphy, Lars Steffen, Leon Sanchez, Maarten Simon, Manal Ismail, Mark Carvell, Mathieu Weill, Maura Gambassi, Maureen Hilyard, Michael Niebel, Niels ten Oever, Pär Brumark, Paul Mitchell, Phil Buckingham, Philip Corwin, Raul Solares, Robin Gross, Roelof Meijer, Ron da Silva, Russ Mundy, Ryan Carroll, Sabine Meyer, Samantha Demetrious, Sara, Stephen Deerhake, Steve DelBianco, Tatiana Tropina, Thomas Rickert, Tom Dale, Tracey Hind, Vicky Sheckler, Wolf-Ulrich Knoben   (69)


Adobe Connect recording:  https://icann.adobeconnect.com/p3unjwzlvul/

MP3 recording:  EN    FR    AR     PT     RU     ZH 

Adobe Connect Chat:  

Brenda Brewer: (12/2/2015 06:34) Welcome to the Informational Webinar 2 on CCWG-Accountability Draft Proposal on Work Stream 1 Recommendations on 2 December 2015 @ 20:00 UTC!   Chat sessions are being archived and follow the ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior: http://www.icann.org/en/news/in-focus/accountability/expected-standards

  Kavouss Arasteh: (13:39) Hi Brenda

  Kavouss Arasteh: (13:39) Hi CCWG Chairs

  Kavouss Arasteh: (13:39) Hi dear Participants AT wEBINAR

  Ken Stubbs - Afilias: (13:47) good day all

  Becky Burr: (13:52) hello everyone!

  Anne Aikman-Scalese - IPC: (13:54) Hi all - hoping to catch up with all your work.  Thanks to everyone who is in the trenches on a daily basis. 

  Carlos Raul (Costa Rica): (13:55) Hello everyone

  Leon Sanchez (CCWG Co-Chair, ALAC): (13:55) Hello everyone and welcome

  Leon Sanchez (CCWG Co-Chair, ALAC): (13:56) We will be beginning in aproximately 5 minutes

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (13:56) Hi All

  Carlos Raul (Costa Rica): (13:56) funny background noise

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (13:57) Hello everyone

  Anne Aikman-Scalese - IPC: (13:59) @Carlos - I don't hear anything yet.  Do you mean on the call?

  Annebeth Lange, Norid: (13:59) Hello all, I have no sound, is it only me? Awfully quiet.

  Carlos Raul (Costa Rica): (13:59) can staff pelase test audio????

  Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (13:59) hello all

  Carlos Raul (Costa Rica): (14:00) thank you cherryl

  Greg Shatan: (14:00) Hello, all!

  Ken Stubbs - Afilias: (14:00) thx cheryl

  Annebeth Lange, Norid: (14:00) Thanks, Cheryl

  Carlos Raul (Costa Rica): (14:00) there is a  background noise

  Anne Aikman-Scalese - IPC: (14:00) Okay - sound is fine here - thanks Cheryl

  Carlos Raul (Costa Rica): (14:00) I was wondering if I was in the wrong channel

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (14:01) As you can imagin  I find this silence  rather odd indeed  888 But  I go with the flow 888 ;-)

  Ken Stubbs - Afilias: (14:01) someon with an open mic is typing

  Sabine Meyer: (14:01) hello everyone

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:01) someone is hardly typing

  Alan Greenberg: (14:01) Loud typing sounds or something...

  Carlos Raul (Costa Rica): (14:02) much better now with Mathieu

  Harold Arcos: (14:02) Hi all.

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:03) Pls advise who are participants from GAC, in particular ,are any of the five GAC mEMBERS ARE ATTENDING THE MEETING

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:03) pLS ADVISE$

  Alice Jansen: (14:03) Please note that the ES interpretatin channel is currently not available due to unforeseen circumstances.  We apologize for any inconvenience

  Alan Greenberg: (14:03) Oooh, a classical reference!

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:04) Reading  the PARTICIPANTS LIST

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:05) I have not acknowledged any of the five GAC members attendibng the Webinars

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:05) Dear Brenda,

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:05)  pls correct me if I have missed any?

  Philip Corwin: (14:06) @Alan--hercules brought down the pillars of the temple ;-)

  Jordan Carter (.nz, WP1 rapporteur): (14:06) Thanks all for joining this webinar :-)

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:07) Is there any GAC ccwg Members attending this Weibnars?

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:07) Thomas Schneider, chair of GAC, are you there opls?

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:09) Will the translations also be provided to the annexes and appendices? 

  Alice Jansen: (14:10) Hi Robin - yes, they are in progress

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:10) Thank you.

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:10) Question 1

  Dev Anand Teelucksingh: (14:10) https://community.icann.org/x/eLRYAw is the link to the draft proposals

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:11)  Apart from the chartering organizations who else should be involved in approving / commenting to the Third CCWG Proposals?

  Pär Brumark (GAC Niue): (14:11) Late Hi all!

  Anne Aikman-Scalese - IPC: (14:11) Thanks Dev!

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:12) Knowing that evety individual or entities are entile to comment but approval of recopmmendations are different than commenting.

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:12) Question 2

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (14:12) Note while this slide #5 states  5  Community Powers  the report outlines 7 this will be covered in detail later in the webinar  this slide is frim earlier  and was nit able to be ( as yet) edited to reflect this change

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:12) I undestood that ICANN wishing to organize two calls 7 webinars,

  Carlos Raul (Costa Rica): (14:12) loud and clear

  Greg Shatan: (14:13) There seems to be some echo.

  Ken Stubbs - Afilias: (14:13) we can hear

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:13) What are tghe objectives of those calls7 webinars, other than providing information and comments on who these recommendation could be implemented

  Philip Corwin: (14:14) Is this PPT available for download anywhere?

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (14:14) Yes Phillip  see notes pod

  Ken Stubbs - Afilias: (14:14) we are getting an echo.. plz muteunless ur speaking

  Brenda Brewer: (14:14) PPT available here:  https://community.icann.org/x/woJlAw

  Philip Corwin: (14:16) Thx

  Ken Stubbs - Afilias: (14:17) note to moderator.. can you plz take the open mic off the conference. it is a real distraction

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (14:18) It eems to be simeines ophine line open   staff has muted all in AC other than Jordan Ken

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (14:19) @Ken: bear with us, we're trying to locate this

  Carlos Raul (Costa Rica): (14:20) unreadable slide

  Carlos Raul (Costa Rica): (14:20) the line making the noise was open 10 minutes before the call started

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:20) Question or comments 3$

  Carlos Raul (Costa Rica): (14:20) plese check staff and translatros

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:20) First, the "SurveyMonkey" link for the survey to respond to the Proposal is not working.  The link is https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/ccwg-acct-draftproposal and the response is This webpage is not available

  Hillary Jett: (14:21) @Carlos this table is located in Annex 2, page 11-12

  Hillary Jett: (14:21) Its also on page 22-23 in the Core Proposal

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:21) Question 4

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (14:21) Kavouss the link worked for me yesterday

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:21) The six Chartering Organizations for the CCWG-Accountability are asked to indicate their support for the recommendations in this proposal. At the same time, public participants not involved with a Chartering Organization are invited to comment on the proposal..

  Sabine Meyer: (14:22) I just clicked - it is working for me at the moment.

  Avri Doria: (14:22) What are the thresholds for a court action?

  Dev Anand Teelucksingh: (14:22) @Kavoss - the survey link is working for me too

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:23) wHAT HAPPENED IF LESS THAN 450& OF THE CHARTERING ORGANIOZATION SUPèPORT ,either the entire prposal or any of the recommendations?

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:25) Would CCWG still submit tghe final proposals if less than 50 % of the chartering organization support the entire proposal or any of the recoomendations..The question is what is the threshold which permits the CCWG to submit the proposal or any recommendations to ICANN Board

  Anne Aikman-Scalese - IPC: (14:25) Good question Avri.  Is court action a community power or not?

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:25) Please kindly reply to these four questions

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:26) Jortdan

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (14:27) All questions are being captured and whilst some have aklready been resopinded to in chat  we will respond to all Questions at the end of the webinar

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:27) Thank you very much for your presentation.

  Anne Aikman-Scalese - IPC: (14:27) If appointing SO/AC removes, are they protected from suit by the removed director?

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:28) I must admit that the way  the issue was presented by Thomas Rickert was much much more clearer than what you described.

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:28) I appoligize to say that

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:28) The Dissenting Opinion of the Non-Commercial Stakeholders Group on the issue of the marginalization of the SO's and elevation of AC's, especially GAC, is available here:  http://www.circleid.com/posts/20151201_supporting_orgs_marginalized_in_icann_accountability_proposal/  (or it can be found in Appendix A to the report)

  Carlos Raul (Costa Rica): (14:28) i cna hear you

  Ken Stubbs - Afilias: (14:28) still have a significant echo

  Carlos Raul (Costa Rica): (14:29) the background noise is from one of the translators

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:29) Question 5

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:29) ST 18

  Carlos Raul (Costa Rica): (14:29) very annoying

  Jordan Carter (.nz, WP1 rapporteur): (14:30) That's OK Kavouss - I didn't hear his presentation :-)

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (14:30) @ Robin,   as a Member of the NCSG   I missed when you asked us to support or otherwie this Minority Report,  but obviously I would have not been in support of it... Just for the record...  When did you poll the Membership ??

  Anne Aikman-Scalese - IPC: (14:31) Is removing SO/AC indemnified by ICANN - assume they can be sued as unincorporated CA association and that individual offices of SO/AC would also be named.  Should there be protection/indemnification for  SO/AC and its officers on this removal process in order to prevent chilling effect?  Will ICANN defend?  If not, SO/AC may not want to risk removal

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:31) These issues were discussed at each of the last several months NCSG Policy Calls, including the one held last week.

  Avri Doria: (14:31) Anne it is supposedly the utmost of the escalation steps.  Has been for a while.  Just not sure how we enter that state.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (14:33) But no specific other polling of Member as such =>  Noted Robin  thanks

  Carlos Raul (Costa Rica): (14:33) Txs for solving the noise issue!!!!!

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:33) The manner in which this ST 18 is drafted give rise to considerable problem to GAC in the sense that the entire GAC could be captured or highjacked by one single Government who formally disagree to the potential consensus which may lead that no fully consensused issue could be sent to ICANN Board as one single government could on its own interest formally object to a potential consensus issue and blocked that. this is dangerous and blocking to provcced to deal with public policy issue which is the exclussive and prorogative of governments.

  Hillary Jett: (14:33) @all thank you for your patience with the echo. We seem to have solved the problem now.

  Mark Carvell  GAC - UK Govt: (14:33) Caretaker budget proposal is very valuable in ensuring organisation still operational - meets a key concern of governments in a veto situation.

  Carlos Raul (Costa Rica): (14:33) @Hillary +1

  Christopher Wilkinson (CW): (14:33) I think it is clear that any Director worth her salt will have resigned long before any of these procedures will have reached a closure.

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:34) The ST 18 cooked by some rapporteur is di9strucing and countercproductive to the very interests of government

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:34) Not true, CLO, these are the points made in NCSG's comments of September, which were approved by the policy cmte.  There is nothing new or surprising there.

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:34) Pls reply to this question as well

  Avri Doria: (14:34) Christopher the problem may be that the director is not worth very much salt.

  Jonathan Zuck/ACT: (14:34) @Mark, yes thank you. It seems to address the majority of concerns about the prior proposal drafts

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (14:35) Understood  Robin,  nor is the existance of other views  on the matter ( such as mine)

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:35) Yes nothing is new but every thing was well cooked Robin

  Greg Shatan: (14:35) @Anne, if it's a clear statutory and bylaw right for an appointing SO/AC to remove the directors they appoint with or without cause, and it only happens after a lengthy proscribed process, what's the cause of action?

  Ken Stubbs - Afilias: (14:35) echo is now gone.. thank you...

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:35) I know  the anti GAC sentiments that was expressed by some people thaT i DO NOT WISH TO NAME.


  Anne Aikman-Scalese - IPC: (14:36) @Greg - wrongful removal - slander, harm to reputation - intentional infliction of emotional distress  - you name it.

  Ken Stubbs - Afilias: (14:37) must the aggreived party be, in fact, a SO ?

  Alice Jansen: (14:37) Reminder: When submitting a question,  please start with a <QUESTION> and end with a “</QUESTION>”. Text outside these quotes will be considered as part of “chat” and will may not be brought to the facilitators attention.

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:37) People shall recognize the concerns of governments which are responsible for public policy that are subject to GAC advice.

  Jordan Carter (.nz, WP1 rapporteur): (14:38) Anne: I regard such indemnification as an important part of the implementation process.

  Ken Stubbs - Afilias: (14:38) <question> must the aggreived party be, in fact, a SO ? <question>

  Jordan Carter (.nz, WP1 rapporteur): (14:38) Avri: on court action, my own preference would be that it is automatic if the organisatin doesn't comply with the escalation process.

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:38) Perhaps you should have voiced your views in the meetings where the discussions on the issue take place.  NCSG does not routinely ask ALAC leaders if they agree with our positions.

  Jordan Carter (.nz, WP1 rapporteur): (14:39) but I think that's an implementation matter we should think about next

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (14:39) @Robin it has been a while since I was an ALAC Leader,  but I am an NCSG Member  thus my question

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:39) By ST18 Governments will be at merci of one single government which may submit formal objection to the topics that they wish to block and  not joining the consensus which the golden tradition of UN practices

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:40) The CCWG throw the monkey of ST 18

  Anne Aikman-Scalese - IPC: (14:40) <QUESTION>  Is there any legal protection for SOs/ACs  and their officers exercising director removal by way of indemnification or agreement by ICANN to defend a suit by the removed director?  Alternatively, can directors sign an agreement not to sue SO/AC when each takes office? QUESTION>  Otherwise it seems community may be reluctant to exercise the power(s).

  Ken Stubbs - Afilias: (14:40) in a court action, if ICANN loses, they should be required to pay all court costs

  Ken Stubbs - Afilias: (14:41) this should be "hard coded" into agreement

  Chuck Gomes: (14:41) <QUESTION> In several instances a 7-day time limit is applied to SOs & ACs.  This seems very impractical considering the size and diversity of SOs and ACs so it seems possible that it may be impossible to exercise community powers because of this restriction.  How has the CCWG dealt with this issue? <QUESTION>

  Becky Burr: (14:42) Ken, it will likely operate as it does now - the panel can allocate costs as appropriate.  in previous cases where icann has lost, costs have been allocated to icann

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:42) CLO, I was under the impression that you represented  ALAC (AsiaPacific) in this group.

  Anne Aikman-Scalese - IPC: (14:42) Good point CHuck and thanks for pointing out that questions that the public may have are valid.


  Jordan Carter (.nz, WP1 rapporteur): (14:43) Chuck: good question

  Jordan Carter (.nz, WP1 rapporteur): (14:43) Chuck: that timeframe thing is a concern with the large number of escalation steps now propoesd, versus the need to be able to use the powers in a timely way


  Carlos Raul (Costa Rica): (14:47) <what is the annex on the NTIA conditions again please?>

  Ken Stubbs - Afilias: (14:47) @kavarouss  are you saying that , in the past, no icann process, or procedures under a defined process (i.e. new tld's) has been halted, stopped, inordinately delayed as the result of complaints from a single government ?

  Chuck Gomes: (14:47) @ Jordan:  I understand and wasn't trying to limit the concern to just using the powers at the end.

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (14:48) @Ken: regarding your question about aggrieved party, could you elaborate ?

  Mark Carvell  GAC - UK Govt: (14:49) @ Kavouss: the role of the GAC in resolving problems that are the subject potentially of CEMs would be advisory.As to participating in decision-taking steps in the CEM process, that has not yet been fully discussed so no decision yet. What is your precise question on ST18 - as you know, a number of CCWG members and participants worked on this. UK agrees GAC needs to work out a method to address risk of consensus by 150+ governments being derailed by one or two members.

  Ken Stubbs - Afilias: (14:50) @mathieu referring to diagram on enhanced irp slide

  Alice Jansen: (14:50) Reminder: When submitting a question,  please start with a <QUESTION> and end with a “</QUESTION>”. Text outside these quotes will be considered as part of “chat” and will may not be brought to the facilitators attention.

  Ken Stubbs - Afilias: (14:51) +1 to mark's last comment re method to address risk of concensus

  Kavouss Arasteh: (14:53) Alice, I have made four questions

  Niels ten Oever: (14:53) yes

  Ken Stubbs - Afilias: (14:55) <question> in slide  15 how is the term "applicable law" defined ? what domecile is used for this definition?>question

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (14:56) ok thanks. Answer is no then. Materialy affected party

  Anne Aikman-Scalese - IPC: (14:58) QUESTION:  Re: Human Rights - do we not amend the By-Laws until the framework of implemenation is decided?  I can imagine directors would be concerned about how to comply with "applicable law" when there is no framework yet.  QUESTION

  Niels ten Oever: (14:59) Applicable law is not a problem for the HR goup.

  Niels ten Oever: (14:59) ICANN says in art 4 of art of inmcorporation that it will comply with applicable law

  Leon Sanchez (CCWG Co-Chair, ALAC): (15:00) @Anne the Bylaw on Human rights will be included as part of WS1. We will also be including a transitional bylaw that will take care of ensuring that the FoI is developed in order tu be able to fully implement the proposed bylaw on HR

  Anne Aikman-Scalese - IPC: (15:00) @Neills - it does seem Ken poses a good question given the specificity of the change in the By-Laws.

  Mark Carvell  GAC - UK Govt: (15:00) Question: is the last sentence of the bylaw text necessary: its commitmetn means it has to deliver on that ie. enforce its commitment by correctign any failure to respect rigths. QUESTION. Apologies if i misunderstood the rationale.

  Anne Aikman-Scalese - IPC: (15:00) @Leon - thank you for your answer.

  Leon Sanchez (CCWG Co-Chair, ALAC): (15:01) @Anne you're very welcome :-)

  Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (15:01) The Government Advisory Committee has the autonomy to refine its Operating Procedures to specify how objections are raised and considered (for example, disallowing a single country to continue an objection on the same issue if no other countries will join in an objection). When transmitting consensus advice to the Board for which the Government Advisory Committee seeks to receive special consideration, the Government Advisory Committee has the obligation to confirm the lack of any formal objection.

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:02) Comments on Steve Delbianco

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:02) Stve was overemphasizing the case he di not respect the neutrality in his presentaion

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:03) Alice Pls note that I need to receive answers to my 4 questions

  Anne Aikman-Scalese - IPC: (15:03) QUESTION:  How does this  provision re 2/3 rejection relate to the provision applicable to Board action on GNSO policy advice where GNSO policy advice and GAC advice conflict?  QUESTION

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:03) Matheieu pls answer my questions

  Carlos Raul (Costa Rica): (15:03) @Steve d B CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!

  Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (15:04) @Anne -- board requires 2/3 to reject GNSO Policy Reccomendation today, I believe

  Anne Aikman-Scalese - IPC: (15:04) @Steve del Bianco -well done.

  Philip Corwin: (15:04) @Anne A-S: Good question.

  Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (15:04) Majority of Board = 9 votes.   2/3 = 11 votes

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:04) Question 5

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:05) There are 12 Recommendations

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (15:05) Mathieu  meant to say January  niot July ;-)

  Anne Aikman-Scalese - IPC: (15:05) @ Steve - agree with you re: GNSO Policy advice but wondering how the two provisions interact in case of conflict, e.g. Board rejects GAC Advice and works something out but what is worked out does not comply with GNSO Policy Advice.

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:05) The answer from the chartering organization could be support , oposition or no coomets

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:06) hOW DO YOU INTERPRET NO COMMENTS?

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:06) aGREEMENT OR WHAT ?

  Leon Sanchez (CCWG Co-Chair, ALAC): (15:07) @Kavouss as no opposition?

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (15:07) Did we drop Ombudsman Office improvements from WS2?

  Ken Stubbs - Afilias: (15:08) if "kick off doesn't happen in Marrakech" ws 2 will never happen by end of 2016

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:08) mATHIEU

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:08) wHY ONE QUESTION PER PARTICIPANT

  Carlos Raul (Costa Rica): (15:08) Thank you very much! I have to go now.

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:08) dO YOU CONSIDER MY QUZESTIONS INVALID?$

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:08) I strongly object to your strategy.$

  Becky Burr: (15:09) correct. community IRP supplements existing IRP

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:09) You need to reply to all questions either now or by  written text in a subsequent document formally available to the commubnity

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:09) PLS RECONSIDER YOUR POSITION

  Ken Stubbs - Afilias: (15:09) my skeptcism is based in approx 18 yrs participation

  Alice Jansen: (15:10) @ Robin - no, enhancements to the Ombudsman’s role and function are part of Work Stream 2 - it seems to be an omission in the graphic. We will fix it.

  Becky Burr: (15:10) ken - skepticism on IRP?

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (15:10) Thanks for the clarification, Alice.


  Ken Stubbs - Afilias: (15:11) skepticism on work stream 2 being completed by end of 2016

  Jordan Carter (.nz, WP1 rapporteur): (15:11) nice catch, Robin

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (15:11) Kavouss  all questions are being managed in order as taff cptured them in the Notes 3 pod here in the AC room

  Becky Burr: (15:11) @Ken, understand that

  Christopher Wilkinson (CW): (15:12) But WS2 is a priority since it now contains the accountability of the Community SO/AC representatives. Highest priority. CW

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (15:12)  we will keep going through all the quetions  until time runs out for the call, and ALL questions  from bith Webinars will be collected, collated, responded to and oublished

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (15:12) Published

  Anne Aikman-Scalese - IPC: (15:12) COMMENT: Thanks Mathieu.   Any risk to SOs and ACs that is potentially incurrred via removal of directors should be eliminated by director agreement not to sue the SO/AC.

  Jordan Carter (.nz, WP1 rapporteur): (15:13) sorry about the noise there, too

  Chuck Gomes: (15:13) Thanks Jordan for the response to my time limit question.

  Anne Aikman-Scalese - IPC: (15:14) Co

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:14) i HAVE RAISED FIVE QUESTIONS

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:14) bRENDA

  Anne Aikman-Scalese - IPC: (15:14) COMMENT: Maybe each SO/AC will have to adopt its own rules requiring director candidates to agree not to sue if removed.

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:14) pLS REDIAL ME

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:15) Dear Brenda

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:15) I am interrupted

  Brenda Brewer: (15:15) Yes Kavouss.  One moment please

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:15) Pls redial me

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:15) Mathieu

  Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (15:15) @ Anne Aikman-Scalese - IPC: Lawyers have been discussion Service Letters which would have to be signed by each director before they are seated

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:16) Pls give me the follor

  Brenda Brewer: (15:16) Kavouss, your line is connected.

  Anne Aikman-Scalese - IPC: (15:16) Thanks Leon - very helpful as to "applicable law."

  Leon Sanchez (CCWG Co-Chair, ALAC): (15:16) Thank you Anne :-)

  Avri Doria: (15:18) Did I miss the answer to what the consensus threshold for taking court action is? Understanding it is last step just do not know how we enter that state.

  Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (15:18) Kavous -- please see page 8 of our charter, where Chartering Org support is described

  Anne Aikman-Scalese - IPC: (15:19) @Avri - do you have to frame this with QUESTION at front in order to be posed as an official question?

  Greg Shatan: (15:20) The Board Information Calls are for the Board to discuss the proposal among themselves.  Not to provide the community with the Board's views on the proposal.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (15:20) Preferably Anne  it helps staff identify it fo capture

  Mark Carvell  GAC - UK Govt: (15:20) Mathieu: REPEAT OF QUESTION I had a question in chat when Leon presented on rights, about the rationale for the last sentence of the rights bylaw change. If ICANN commits it should also enforce in my view in order to deliver on commitment.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (15:20) but we do try to keep up with Chat as well

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (15:21) The Survey Monkey still defaults to "No, I do not support this recommendation." on Rec. #11 (Stress Test 18).  That "default will skew results.

  Greg Shatan: (15:21) Survey link is now working for me.

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:21) sorry I referred to ICANN cALLS AND not GAC

  Avri Doria: (15:22) Anne, oh well, never mind.

  Jordan Carter (.nz, WP1 rapporteur): (15:23) Avri: we haven't answered it because the CCWG hasn't discussed it

  Avri Doria: (15:23) I think the answer is we forgot to define it.  Maybe just an implementation detail.

  Jordan Carter (.nz, WP1 rapporteur): (15:23) I said my personal view is that it should be automatic.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (15:23) AGree Avri

  Avri Doria: (15:23) i was assuming I had missed it with my partial attenion of late.

  Jordan Carter (.nz, WP1 rapporteur): (15:24) (that is, it shouldn't be yet anbother decision to ensure the decision which has already been made, gets implemented.

  Anne Aikman-Scalese - IPC: (15:24) RE Director service letter.  Thank you Bernard.  Assume the recommended letter contains agreement not to sue SO/AC but I will try to check it before public comment is due.  I apologize I could not keep up as a participant due to full time law practice - INTA meeting all week two weeks ago in Panama and I have been out ill. 

  Avri Doria: (15:24) Jordan, if board rejects the IRP -> off to court automatically?

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:24) Dear Alice

  Avri Doria: (15:24) i mean is they reject being unseated -> off to court

  Avri Doria: (15:25) either, both?

  Avri Doria: (15:25) so sorry for being off-process

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:25) I have formulated five distinct questions . Why you have not put them before the chair.

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:25) Do you discriminate between people making questions>?

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:26) Mathieu,

  Becky Burr: (15:26) interesting question Avri

  Anne Aikman-Scalese - IPC: (15:26) Anne Aikman-Scalese - IPC: Thanks Mathieu - I think Steve Del Bianco will understand the question and Chuck Gomes may have a good deal of insight given work of Policy and Implementation WG which Chuck chaired.

  Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (15:26) @Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]:  I just did the survey and there was no default on question 11 for me?

  Mark Carvell  GAC - UK Govt: (15:26) Thanks Leon for answer to my question.

  Kavouss Arasteh: (15:26) You misunderstood me I referred to ICANN CALL  AND NOT gac call

  Avri Doria: (15:26) thank you Jordon

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (15:27) Thanks, Bernie.  But odd that it was just for me.  Glad to hear it isn't there for others.

  Tom Dale (ACIG GAC Secretariat): (15:27) Kavouss, the ICANN calls are internal to the Board, not public.

  Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (15:27) Yes if this happens please tell us as it would be aproblem

  Mark Carvell  GAC - UK Govt: (15:27) F.y.i. GAC will have first conference call to review proposal on Monday 7th.

  Alice Jansen: (15:27) Link to the survey - https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/ccwg-acct-draftproposal - open through 21 December (23:59 UTC)

  Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (15:28) @Anne -- I do understand.  We are NOT changing bylaws on ciriteria our Board uses to decide wether to accept or reject GAC advice.   The board can consider anything it believes is relevant when it reacts to GAC advice.  However, we ARE enhancing the IRP to challenge a board decision on AC advice, based on amended mission and core values

  Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (15:28) @Robin - sometimes its a browser preference thing

  Jordan Carter (.nz, WP1 rapporteur): (15:28) thanks all, good discussion

  Chuck Gomes: (15:28) Thanks to all.

  Ken Stubbs - Afilias: (15:28) is this cwg meeting to consider our questions & comments or must this be thru public comments

  Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (15:28) bye all

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (15:28) Bye everyine  thank you for joiniung this call...

  Pär Brumark (GAC Niue): (15:28) Thx all!

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (15:29) Ergh Typos => need coffee clearly ;-)

  Jordan Carter (.nz, WP1 rapporteur): (15:29) thanks to the Interpreters too!

  Jonathan Zuck/ACT: (15:29) Thanks!

  Mark Carvell  GAC - UK Govt: (15:29) Manay thanks to all involved in setting up and presentign on the webinar - extremely helpful.

  Tatiana Tropina: (15:29) Many thanks! Bye all

  Sabine Meyer: (15:29) Thanks everyone and good bye!

  Thomas Rickert, CCWG Co-Chair: (15:29) Thanks to the interpreters!

  Becky Burr: (15:29) good night all

  Anne Aikman-Scalese - IPC: (15:29) Thanks Steve.

  Dev Anand Teelucksingh: (15:29) Thanks everyone and thanks  to the CCWG-Accountability on that work done

  Greg Shatan: (15:29) Thank you!

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (15:29) Thanks, all!  Bye!

  Ken Stubbs - Afilias: (15:29) adios all !


  Anne Aikman-Scalese - IPC: (15:29) Thank you everyone.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC - APRegional Member: (15:29) Bye

  Thomas Rickert, CCWG Co-Chair: (15:30) This has been a great webinar. Many new names.- Thank you for your interest!

  Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: (15:30) Yes, thanks to interpreters as well !

  Avri Doria: (15:30) thanks


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