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  Gisella Gruber-White:Welcome to the post-WCIT Webinar on Thursday 17 January 2013 at 1400 UTC
  Gisella Gruber-White:Agenda:
  Darlene Thompson:I can hear you through Adobe
  Darlene Thompson:Yes
  Tijani BEN JEMAA:hi everybody
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:oops I git cut out
  Yaovi Atohoun:Hello everybody
  Ron Sherwood:Hi, Gisella... there is no audio option available
  David Olive:Greetings All
  Juan Manuel Rojas:Hi Gisella, Adobe audio is available only in English?
  Juan Manuel Rojas:yes please, I will need a dial-out. Thanks.
  Gisella Gruber-White:Juan Manuel - we can call you to join you to the SPanish line
  alberto soto:Hi everybody!
  Adela Danciu:Hello!
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Hi David
  Fatima Cambronero:hello everybody
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Hi
  Juan Manuel Rojas:Good morning, afternoon or evening everyone
  Murray Mckercher:Hello from Toronto
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Hi
  Sylvia Herlein:Hello from Brazil
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Hi
  Roberto:Hi from Vienna, under half meter of snow
  Murray Mckercher:Gisella . I need to dial in from my mobile
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Wow  Roberto now that really makes me envious  expected  43=44C here later today with extreeme fire risk
  Veni Markovski:hi, everyone
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Hi Veni
  Roberto:Q to staff: Adobe connect audio is quite good, pls confirm I do not need to call to follow the discussion
  Gisella Gruber-White:@ Roberto - you can stay on dobe Connect to follow
  Roberto:@Gisella: Thx
  Rudi Vansnick:best wishes to you  and Loesje for a marvelous, prosperous and healthy 2013
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:thankyou Rudi
  Evan Leibovitch:Hello from the other side of Toronto
  Rudi Vansnick:sorry wrong window
  Rudi Vansnick:too many meetings overlaps
  Yaovi Atohoun:Has the webinar started? I am on the French channel.
  Gisella Gruber-White:1 minute and we will start
  Andres Piazza:Hello Everybody! Nice to be here...
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:starting now(ish)
  nigel hickson:good afternoon all
  Veni Markovski:good morning, nigel.
  Yaovi Atohoun:Thank you Heidi
  Murray Mckercher:Bonjour Olivier
  Maria Farrell:Morning / hello, all!
  Gideon (DotConnectAfrica):Morning all, sound ok
  Bill Drake:Hi I just got on and am having audio problems
  Joao Carlos Caribe:Hello folks, nice to be here ;)
  Bill Drake:Olivier Could you move me to later in the list of speakers please
  Narine Khachatryan:Hello, everybody
  Gisella Gruber-White:Welcome to everyone.
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:Yes Bill -- how about after Avri?
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:G I have been disconnected
  Gisella Gruber-White:@ CLO- - dialling you now
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:ta
  Veni Markovski:can you speak louder?
  Veni Markovski:and there is an echo that ruins it
  Joly MacFie:an echo on Avri
  Veni Markovski:I can't hear anything
  Veni Markovski:too much echo
  Gideon (DotConnectAfrica):too much echo from Avri
  Joao Carlos Caribe:impossible to hear...
  Veni Markovski:Olivier, can you please, tell her?
  Veni Markovski:She might not be reading these notes...
  Veni Markovski:and ask operator to fix the problem?
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Nigel may have his mike still open
  Tijani BEN JEMAA:Avri, you have an echo
  Narine Khachatryan:too much echo
  Ron Sherwood 2:Avri cannot be heard
  Heidi Ullrich:Sorry, we are trying to improve Avri's audio
  Heidi Ullrich:Sorry to the ES and FR channels
  Tijani BEN JEMAA:very bad for the comprehension
  Evan Leibovitch:some kind of tin-can echo
  Joly MacFie:I'd say mute Nigel
  Joao Carlos Caribe:This could be connection by phone? It appear the usual TELECOMUNICATION low quality service, connecting to Internet HIGH quality one
  Roberto:It's not that bad on Adobe, although still with echo
  Tijani BEN JEMAA:dropped
  Evan Leibovitch:Ah, ok now
  Veni Markovski:oh, now it is much better!
  Heidi Ullrich:We'll dial you back, Tijani
  Heidi Ullrich:Much better, Avri
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:the echo was Nigel
  Gisella Gruber-White:Apologies for the audio issue - this has been resolved
  nigel hickson:completelty agree with Avri; excellent points on what was good in Treaty!
  Gideon (DotConnectAfrica):its ok now thank you
  Joly MacFie:QUESTION: What about the WSIS?
  Joao Carlos Caribe:Cool! Running dow the polarized concept  of Internet Cold War...
  Natalia Enciso:Have to leave AC, will continue on my cel.
  Evan Leibovitch:It's no surpise that ICANN looks at ITU from the outside, seeing as many of the participating countries would have ICANN functions replaced by governments.
  Evan Leibovitch:Welcome, Andrés!
  alberto soto:My apologies, I must retire for a work call, sorry
  nigel hickson:Evan; think ICANN is beiginnig to change focus from "outside" to "inside"
  Evan Leibovitch:Agreed, but that's easier said than done. Changing focus requires far more transparency and equitable participation.
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:Bill -- you can take a little more time. We have 90 minutes.
  Avri Doria:unfortunately I committed to a 60 minute meeting as was orignally scheduled so will have to leave on the hour, but will try to pay attention to the adobe
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:This is noted, Avri. Thanks
  Avri Doria:The WTSA background to the demand for a registry, which Andreas mentioned,  was quite interesting.  Basically as they see the guarantees of IPv6 everywhere start to sour due to the lack of global take-up, they are in trouble with their bosses for having promised IPv6 as a solution.  So they want a way to get access to the 50% of IPv4 addressees that are still available in IPv4 legacy space.
  Roberto:Avri, later can you elaborate more on this, maybe on the mailing lists?
  Avri Doria:Roberto, sure.  On which list? And on which list can I do it without getting staked as a heretic.
  Roberto:ALAC has no erethics by definition
  Avri Doria:Roberto: hahaha
  Andres Piazza:Yes, Bill. That is right. The definition does not include the internet, and the articles (spam) does not include the Internet either... but the proposal and the intention IS ABOUT THE INTERNET.
  Heidi Ullrich:Avri, staff will create a wiki page for comments. We will provide a link in a moment
  Andres Piazza:Regarding the challenges that Nigel was listing, I want to help: WTPF, WSIS+10, CSTD Enhanced Cooperation, and ITU-T Study Groups 2 and 3 discussions regarding IP Adresses.
  Evan Leibovitch:Question (of all speakers) to follow up on some points by Bill: At the start of the conference, ITU chair Touré promised decision-making by consensus and that the Internet would not be brought into ITRs. At the conference both those commitments were broken. Does this damage the ongoing viability and utility of the ITU? Or is the main casualty just Touré? Now there is talk in some circles of de-funding.  To what extent is ITU itself threatened?
  Avri Doria:Bill, it is not even certain that ICANN can particpate in WTPF
  Heidi Ullrich:A discussion wiki page has been created for questions/comments:
  Gideon (DotConnectAfrica):Its clear that there is need for ICANN to find a wa to participate more intimately
  Avri Doria:Evan,  the UN and ITU, and in fact every governmental gathering including the GAC, can do anything they want process-wise and call it anything they want.  I am sure they did not follow the exact process for voting, so it wasn't a vote.
  Roberto:Avri: we did in 2009, Lisboa. I was the speaker for ICANN.
  Gideon (DotConnectAfrica):thanks Heidi for the link
  Heidi Ullrich:You are welcome.
  Gideon (DotConnectAfrica):Roberto , what were the achievement of ICANN's involvement then/
  Avri Doria:Roberto, where you partipating as ICANn, registered as part of an ICANN delegation - or just part of another delgation or a special invite.
  Bill Drake:Roberto: ICANN was asked to speak in Lisbon, but we (civil society) were told we could not
  Gideon (DotConnectAfrica):I hope that that ICANN community page will be utilized
  Evan Leibovitch:Heidi: Do I need to repeat my question in Confluence?
  Andres Piazza:@Evan: 22 countries signed ITRs in 1988, and 89 countries signed ITRs at 2012. There was more attention to the ITU than ever. The consensus was broken, true, but there was a lot of processes oriented to consensus. I would not say that ITU has now lack of legitimacy. They talked about the Internet a lot at the conference and they had a non binding resolution, but there was consensus regarding the role of the Multilateral Bodies with the Internet. The level is of discussion is rising and was better than ever. So, hard to say.
  Roberto:@Bill; I understand. I was replying to Avri's message talking specifically about ICANN, not generally about civil society
  Victor Ndonnang:Question: During the WCIT12 closing session, the ITU Secretary General said:  “I look forward to the opportunities that lie ahead and all that can be achieved by ITU and ICANN together in a positive spirit of collaboration. So let me repeat once more, the ITU has no wish or desire to play a role in physical Internet resources such as domain names. And the work of ICANN and ITU can be and should be fully complementary.”In others words, It seems like the WCIT-12 was definitely about the ITU “controlling the Internet” but not the ITU “controlling the work of ICANN”. Is that a result of the diplomatic work of the ICANN leading team or a result of a secret arrangement between the ITU and ICANN? Can panelists please share their views or thoughts on that?
  IDN:(OffTopic: Will the clarifying questions be posted publicly?)
  Andres Piazza:@Victor, I can't answer that.
  Heidi Ullrich:@Evan, no, the wiki page is for comments/questions and further discussion after this call.
  Heidi Ullrich:or for questions that are not addresssed during this call.
  Andres Piazza:This is a excelent article by article summary, BTW
  Carlton Samuels:@OCL: The argument over defining 'recognised' operating agencies is A LOT deeper than the surface suggest.
  Veni Markovski:Well, not "taking over", but declaring that the ITU will take it over. There's a difference. Nobody seriously believed that the ITU can increase its mandate at *this* conference. But there's PP-14 coming, so stay tuned.
  Andres Piazza:@Veni +1
  Roberto:@avri: official ICANN delegation, Vint could not make it, so I went. see
  Heidi Ullrich:@IDN - the ICANN community wiki pages are public -
  nigel hickson:Just on ICANN and WTPF; we are (I am) on Expert Group and we will be at WTPF in May; I am hoping Fadi Chehade may be able to attend start. I also hope we can discuss overall Community approach to WTPF in Beijing.
  Carlton Samuels:@recognized operating agencies:  Look at Article 5 and see the implications.
  Andres Piazza:RE: WTPF. Paul Wilson, APCNIC's CEO is member of the experts group as well.
  nigel hickson:Yes; and ISOC!
  IDN:Thanks Heidi.
  Andres Piazza: List of Experts. From my side (RIRs): 3 experts from APNIC and 2 from ARIN.
  Andres Piazza:@Nigel, Right! Isoc has 2 more.
  Bill Drake:ITU has ok'ed me to participate in the IEG but it turns out I have a schedule conflict.  No civil society in the planning.
  Bill Drake:when does this meeting end?
  Cheryl Langdon-Orr:at the 1530 UTC
  Bill Drake:ah
  Gideon (DotConnectAfrica):i have a question
  Evan Leibovitch:I have a bad cold and would prefer someone else read my question.
  Tijani BEN JEMAA:dropped
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:@Evan -- you can type it here if you wish
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:Tijani -- let me know when you're back
  Tijani BEN JEMAA:ok
  Victor Ndonnang:@Andres: Thanks. To say it clearly; does ICANN really have to worry about the post-WCIT12? If yes in which points?
  Evan Leibovitch:@Olivier, I typed it above.
  Gisella Gruber-White:@ Gideon - are you able to speak?
  Gisella Gruber-White:After Tijani.
  Gideon (DotConnectAfrica):no i think am on mute
  Gideon (DotConnectAfrica):ok
  nigel hickson:can I respond please
  Carlton Samuels:@Tijani: +1 - If ever an official ICANN delegation, it must be 'balanced'!
  Roberto:Sorry, I had planned for 1h only, I have to leave
  Gisella Gruber-White:@ Gideon - all lines have been unmuted and your microphone on Adobe Connect is unmuted as well
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:@Roberto - thanks for attending
  Gideon (DotConnectAfrica):i think i have a problem
  Gideon (DotConnectAfrica):i have lost all audio
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:possibly your mic is not connected?
  Gideon (DotConnectAfrica):sorry
  Bill Drake:At the end of the meeting, ITU secretariat claimed that stakeholders could have spoken if they wanted to
  Avri Doria:i have left the call, but can answer written questions in adobe
  Victor Ndonnang:+1 @Tijani. The ITU is a member states organization. I just wonder how can ICANN have an official delagation to ITU?
  Avri Doria:ISOC has an agreement, why not ICANN
  Joly MacFie:Mute Nigel!
  Joly MacFie::)
  Juan Manuel Rojas:Sorry all, I have to go. I have another call.
  nigel hickson:Avri; an issue as I noted for Board!
  Gideon (DotConnectAfrica):With the difference of the two  blocks , what can be done to kind of have a concensus because the internet is liberalized and it has grown that way....perhaps the involvement of ITU must be clearly defined so that there s no conflict
  Veni Markovski:Things are pretty simple: ITU can deal with ITC (and Internet), only if it changes the mandate, which can happen only at the Plenipot.
  Veni Markovski:Dubai was just a rehearsal.
  Bill Drake:Veni: ITU would say it already has lots of mandates to deal with the Internet
  Bill Drake:Resolutions a go go
  Carlton Samuels:@Veni on how you change the ITU mandate: +1
  Andres Piazza:@Veni, Carlton +1
  Bill Drake:ITU doesn't have to take over ICANN functions to affect the environment in which ICANN operates
  Carlton Samuels:And might I ask, what or who constitute the 'electorate' at the Pleni?
  Heidi Ullrich:Joly, your question posted on the wiki has been noted.
  Victor Ndonnang:Thanks @Olivier.
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:@Victro - you're welcome
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:@Voctor
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:@Victor --- third time..
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:sorry
  Gideon (DotConnectAfrica):+1 VEni
  Avri Doria:ITU is one of the stakeholders.
  Victor Ndonnang:Thanks @Bill, @Nigel for the explanation.
  Avri Doria:it is just that they are not the primary stakeholder, not the focal point for Ig
  Carlton Samuels:@Bill: Hope spings eternal!
  Carlton Samuels:*springs*
  Heidi Ullrich:@Nigel, a question for you from Joly: There is a WSIS meeting in Paris in February 2013. Will ICANN be represented?
  nigel hickson:Fine; will answer; N
  Sylvia Herlein:Sorry I have to go! very interesting until now. Tks to all!
  Olivier Crepin-Leblond:thanks Sylvia
  Avri Doria:WSIS+10
  Bill Drake:Anyone can go
  Bill Drake:I have a contrary view on WSIS + 10.  I don't think the meeting will be of much significance
  Joly MacFie:I'd appreciate if you'd comment on that on either the list or the wiki, Bill.
  Fatima Cambronero:why @Bill? +1 @Joly
  Evan Leibovitch:It's my understanding that the ALAC Future Challenges WG will be discussing how ICANN cand At-Large can best act in response to the WCIT developments. If you're interested in participating, please contact At-Large staff or one of the WG chairs (myself or Jean Jacques Subrenat)
  Yaovi A:+1  @Olivier,  more work for tha ALSes at the national level
  Andres Piazza:@Olivier +1 on ALSs at National Level
  Carlton Samuels:@Bill on WSIS+10:  +1 The Agenda sends the message
  Carlton Samuels:Well things  can go wrong.....but the Agenda does not suggest much movement beyond the status quo
  Wolf Ludwig:Thanks to the speakers for this interesting briefing!
  Joly MacFie:Thanks Bill, I wondered why people seemed unconcerned.
  Heidi Ullrich:Thanks very much to all the speakers and and the participants!
  Carlton Samuels:Thanks to all, bye
  Darlene Thompson:Thank you all!
  Heidi Ullrich:and the wiki page:
  Yaovi A:Thanks
  Heidi Ullrich:is open to all
  Fatima Cambronero:thanks to all!
  Jose Arce:Thanks, bye all
  Adela Danciu:thank to all speakers for their insights!
  Fatima Cambronero:bye
  Alexander Urbelis:Goodbye
  Gideon (DotConnectAfrica):bless you all
  Silvia Vivanco:Thank you all
  Gideon (DotConnectAfrica):bye
  Vanessa Cravo:Tks! bye
  nigel hickson:thanks
  Victor Ndonnang:Thanks to the organizers and panelists. Bye!
  Dick Kalkman ( you all