Page History

02:00:37 Devan Reed: Welcome back to the At-Large Policy Session 3: ICANN Accountability and Transparency and the ICANN Reviews Part 2
02:06:08 Augusto Ho: Please call me again
02:07:33 Leon Sanchez: If we are not going to use any slides, could we take the agenda slide off the screen so we can see each other’s faces?
02:07:53 Daniel Nanghaka: I agree
02:08:47 Leon Sanchez: Thanks!
02:11:01 Leon Sanchez: I see internal issues as part of the recommended ongoing improvement work
02:11:17 Gisella Gruber - ICANN Org: REMINDER - French Spanish and Russian interpretation available. Please private message staff or email (staff[at]atlarge.icann.org) with preferred number and language channel!
02:11:17 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: agreed
02:12:41 Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org: When submitting a question or comment that you want me to read out loud on the mic, please start with a <QUESTION> and end with a “</QUESTION>” or <COMMENT> </COMMENT>. Text outside these quotes will be considered as part of “chat” and will not be read out loud on the microphone.
02:13:12 Jeff Neuman: In SubPro, ever person, including those from the GAC and the ALAC had a "vote" within the working group when we were determining consensus.
02:13:15 Jeff Neuman: every person
02:13:55 Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org: Welcome Goran!
02:13:59 Jeff Neuman: In fact, in SubPro, we had a work track where the GNSO had a team lead, and so did the ccNSO, GAC and ALAC
02:15:21 Leon Sanchez: But those seats are not meant to represent the GNSO Steve. They are designated by the GNSO but act in the best interest of ICANN
02:15:36 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: indeed Léon
02:16:06 Heather Forrest: @Pat, @Steve, let's pause after Pat to see if others would like to weigh in.
02:16:07 Jeff Neuman: @Leon, but they should understand and bring their perspectives to the Board, correct
02:16:08 Holly Raiche: I like the term stakeholder - it recognizes that- regardless of voting rights - everyone has a stake in the outcomes
02:16:20 Steve DelBianco (CSG): @Leon — but they are appointed by CPH and NCPH and are thus selected to reflect the perspective of those groups
02:16:22 Leon Sanchez: Agree @Jeff
02:16:59 Jeff Neuman: And @Leon, if we used that logic for the whole board, we might as well have the entire board picked by the nominating committee (which I am not recommending by the way_
02:17:30 Leon Sanchez: @Jeff its not using any logic it’s abiding by our bylaws
02:17:34 Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org: Reminder when submitting a question or comment that you want me to read out loud on the mic, please start with a <QUESTION> and end with a “</QUESTION>” or <COMMENT> </COMMENT>. Text outside these quotes will be considered as part of “chat” and will not be read out loud on the microphone.
02:17:58 Roberto Gaetano: I would be in favour of having the entire Board picked by NomCom
02:18:16 Roberto Gaetano: it is in my comments to the past NomCom review
02:18:19 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: there are worse ideas
02:18:24 avri doria: Jeff, I think there is abalnace between alect/appointing people from various perspectives and having the people sitting on the Board to not act as a representative of a Constituency.
02:18:25 Jeff Neuman: @Leon - of course every board member in every organization has a fiduciary duty to do what is in the Corporation's best interests.
02:18:55 Sébastien Bachollet: No @Roberto or you need to change the NomCom
02:19:34 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: Noting prevents NomCOm changes as a result of review processes
02:20:01 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: nothing
02:20:01 Jeff Neuman: @Avri - absolutely. And that is why Steve brings up his concerns which are that he would like to see board members be representative of each of the communities (Not "representing those communities", but be a representative of those communities.
02:20:02 Roberto Gaetano: Exactly, @SeB - also NomCom has to change - bottom line: holistic review
02:20:07 avri doria: And before the Board decides there is a public comment period on any bylaw change.
02:20:48 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: indeed
02:21:05 Jeff Neuman: An issue from the NomCom, however, is that normally there is a bias against contracted parties from serving on the Board. So that bias would have to be completely eliminated.
02:21:38 Mary Wong - ICANN Org: The process for Fundamental Bylaws amendments is outlined in Section 25.2 of the Bylaws: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/governance/bylaws-en/#article25
02:22:32 Steve DelBianco (CSG): That process was part of the bylaws accountability improvements we made as part of the IANA transition.
02:22:45 Mary Wong - ICANN Org: And the process for how the Empowered Community may exercise its powers in relation to Bylaws changes (among other powers) is described in Annex D: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/governance/bylaws-en/#annexD
02:22:46 Sébastien Bachollet: @Jeff there are other bias that need to be eliminated
02:23:05 Roberto Gaetano: @Jeff that bias comes from the fact that non-contracted parties are at a disadvantage in the participation - simply because ICANN is not their day job
02:23:16 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: Is there @Jeff? NC's have very specific requirements and preferred characteristics for the people they choose... made in recent times based on information on desirable characteristics and skill sets desired BY the receiving bodies board included...
02:23:25 Roberto Gaetano: That can be fixed in a holistic view of the organization
02:23:28 Jeff Neuman: @Sebastien - I am sure there are. I was just pointing out one of them
02:23:59 Vanda Scartezini: agree Roberto
02:24:16 Holly Raiche: My understanding of what Steve was sayings NOT about representation on the Board but about the balance of rights/powers within GNSO. My question would be broader - about powers within the larger AC/SO structure
02:24:55 Steve DelBianco (CSG): @Holly — I spoke of balance within GNSO and at the Board voting level.
02:25:24 Holly Raiche: Thanks Steve - I guess my question is larger
02:25:35 Claire POPINEAU: Quite an important point made here
02:25:45 Jeff Neuman: @Roberto - that is an interesting observation. But I think for most contracted parties, other than the top 10 or so, this is nt their day job either.
02:25:58 Jeff Neuman: That is a common misperception.
02:26:06 Claire POPINEAU: Also a point on language to increase diversity and ability of the community to actually participate
02:26:30 Holly Raiche: Not only participate, but have their voice count
02:26:42 Vanda Scartezini: Agree Christopher, we need to come out with processes more effective to reduce the general overload of all
02:26:51 Olévié Kouami: +1 @Claire
02:27:02 Gisella Gruber - ICANN Org: REMINDER - French Spanish and Russian interpretation available. Please private message staff or email (staff[at]atlarge.icann.org) with preferred number and language channel!
02:27:14 Leon Sanchez: To that point, @Heather I guess prioritization on implementation of review recommendations could impact the policy developing process in some areas so it may be an egg-chicken question
02:27:25 Roberto Gaetano: @Jeff glad to stand corrected if I am wrong - were this a pre-COVID ICANN meeting, I would have proposed a round of drinks at the bar for you to explain me
02:28:04 Göran Marby - ICANN Org: Heather, can I add to what Xavier says?
02:29:42 Daniel Nanghaka: @Leon, PDP continues despite of the recommendations from reviews
02:30:31 Philippe Fouquart: My apologies, I have to leave to join our joint GNSO-ccNSO council call. Looking forward to the next steps on this.
02:30:58 Marita Moll: My question was along these lines. It may be answered by the time you get to me
02:31:00 Bill Jouris: +1 Christopher
02:31:41 Heather Forrest: Noted, @Marita - thank you.
02:33:32 Hadia Elminiawi: those two should go in parallel
02:36:14 Jeff Neuman: The community does not, nor has it ever, speak with one voice. To state that you take your instruction from the community is more of a platitude
02:36:22 Jeff Neuman: sorry spoken
02:36:23 Jonathan Zuck: +1 Goran
02:36:42 Michel TCHONANG LINZE: Thank Goran
02:36:50 Jeff Neuman: You will never realistically get the entire community to agree on priorities.
02:36:55 Patrick Kane: +1 - that is why ATRT3 also recommended a process to retire recommendations that we will never get to
02:36:59 Holly Raiche: Sorry Jeff - NOT a platitude - it’s a conversation that reaches an outcome
02:37:25 Göran Marby - ICANN Org: Jeff, that means that someone has to be tasked to make that decision.
02:37:33 Jeff Neuman: Holly - the ALAC has a view. And that view is different than the GNSO and different than the GAC and different than the ccNSO.
02:37:43 Jeff Neuman: that's a reality we have t accept and then move on
02:37:56 Jeff Neuman: @Goran - that is the Board.
02:38:28 Hadia Elminiawi: +1 Alan administrative matters should not eat up our time - we should be able to be accountable in an efficient way
02:38:28 Jeff Neuman: I wish after 25 years of participating in this experiment there was a better conclusion.....but we have to be reaalistic
02:38:33 Holly Raiche: @ Jeff - which is perfectly fine. The point of a holistic review - is Pat’s spaces between and conversations to reach outcomes
02:38:37 Xavier Calvez - ICANN Org: @Jeff: it may be that the entire community may not agree on priorities, but that does not mean that we should not enable the community to provide input. Ultimately, it always going to be the ICANN Board making the decision and the org being accountable to it, but the community’s input should have a say.
02:38:54 Leon Sanchez: + 1 @Xavier
02:39:11 Holly Raiche: +1 Xavieer
02:39:15 Jeff Neuman: @Xavier - of course. The community every year lets you know what their different priorities are.
02:39:22 Olévié Kouami: refer to PDP
02:39:23 Holly Raiche: (sorry - Xavier)
02:39:30 Leon Sanchez: If we denied that opportunity then we would be acting in a top-down fashion as opposed to bottom-up and, in my view, tearing the MSM apart
02:39:43 Holly Raiche: So true Leon
02:39:53 Göran Marby - ICANN Org: Leon, agree
02:39:55 Jeff Neuman: Every strategic plan, every operational plan, every budget, etc. has components of prioritization
02:39:56 Chokri Ben Romdhane: Since money will condition the reviews process , it will be useful for community to know the budget allocated to reviews before start issues prioritization
02:39:56 Daniel Nanghaka: this is a complex issue @Leon
02:40:30 Daniel Nanghaka: there are points where Top Down has to come in but the MSM cannot be neglected
02:40:41 Manal Ismail: At some point we need to also consider prioritization/streamlining of our work (input) rather than only focusing on prioritizing (output) recommendations ..
02:40:41 Göran Marby - ICANN Org: There are today for many reviews timelines built into the bylaws.
02:41:16 Göran Marby - ICANN Org: And again adding, the hard work that people put into reviews has to be respected as well.
02:41:58 Leon Sanchez: Agree @Göran
02:42:07 Olévié Kouami: +1 @Leon
02:42:21 Olévié Kouami: @Xavier
02:42:40 Daniel Nanghaka: I think the review process should not be considered a joke
02:42:52 Marita Moll: Thanks @Xavier. That's why mny of us are here. It is worth doing.
02:43:25 Gregory Shatan: The Multi-Stakeholder Model only works really well to the extent various stakeholders move beyond out of their corners and actively look for multistakeholder outcomes. (The equivalent of "country over party.")
02:43:43 Daniel Nanghaka: There are recommendations developed from reviews and these can be subjected to prioritization then the next step is implementation
02:44:03 Holly Raiche: Agree Greg - conversations such as these that are across community
02:44:43 Göran Marby - ICANN Org: We have the SOAC group who works well together
02:44:53 Xavier Calvez - ICANN Org: @Jeff: That timeframe is not what we are proposing to adopt. The current input is suggesting to organize prioritization exercises 2 times per year.
02:45:40 Jeff Neuman: It actually started with NETMUNDIAL :)
02:46:35 Daniel Nanghaka: NETMUNDIAL was a game changer in the MSM
02:46:47 Jeff Neuman: Perhaps my concerns stem from something I often hear from ICANN staff when there are day to day things that need to happen and we are told that for a week before an ICANN meeting until a week after an ICANN meeting, things cant get done
02:47:42 Jeff Neuman: I know that is apples and oranges, but it is a frustration that some of us have.
02:47:47 Jeff Neuman: And I agree we need to prioritize
02:47:59 Holly Raiche: @ Goran - and thanks for the onversation
02:48:11 Manal Ismail: but this seems to be a fair ask @Jeff ;)
02:48:33 Jeff Neuman: And I agree the prioritization needs to not be done in silos, but rather in a group where we all listen to each other. :)
02:48:48 Manal Ismail: +1
02:48:52 Göran Marby - ICANN Org: Jeff…to run an meeting is a really big thing for us with a lot of prep work.
02:49:05 Roberto Gaetano: +1
02:49:09 Daniel Nanghaka: I agree with you Sebastian
02:49:27 Jeff Neuman: I am so late for the GNSO meeting, so I have to drop :)
02:49:31 Claire POPINEAU: Very good point here by Sébastien
02:51:35 Holly Raiche: I can’t agree with Christopher on this point. We haven’t even implemented the process yet, so it’s too early to say it doesn’t work!
02:52:28 Daniel Nanghaka: let's try it out and prove whether it doesn't work
02:55:04 Gregory Shatan: Holistic Pilot sounds dangerously like an oxymoron....
02:56:02 Marita Moll: @Greg -- that could be tripping us up
02:58:10 Sébastien Bachollet: But we have something defined in the ATRT3
02:58:22 Sébastien Bachollet: Maybe we can start with that?
02:58:44 Vanda Scartezini: @GREG, normally happens when communities do not look at realities they should face...
02:58:51 Eduardo Diaz - NARALO Chair: Wow! 18 months is a long time. Shall we have an Ehollistic Review (E = expedited)?
02:58:57 Marita Moll: So it is a "how" question -- how do we do this
03:00:14 Xavier Calvez - ICANN Org: That is the way I understand it Manal.
03:00:55 Vanda Scartezini: @ Manal, for me yes, give opportunity to test model, define better doubts etc.
03:01:08 Holly Raiche: EXACTLY right - at least for me - thanks Heather
03:01:17 Göran Marby - ICANN Org: So back to to priority…is this more important than some of the other things we do?
03:01:52 Vanda Scartezini: guess we agree with Steve , Holistic first
03:01:58 Manal Ismail: Thanks @Xavier and @Vanda ..
03:02:16 Jonathan Zuck: +1 Steve!
03:02:45 Holly Raiche: I think the expression is that we should be able to walk and chew gum at the same time
03:03:52 Michel TCHONANG LINZE: Merci et bravo Sébastien
03:03:53 Vanda Scartezini: great two sessions !!!
03:04:07 Olévié Kouami: Merci à tous
03:04:09 Xavier Calvez - ICANN Org: Very interesting session and useful input.
03:04:17 Michel TCHONANG LINZE: Congrat for all the team
03:04:22 Leon Sanchez: Indeed, great sessions. Thanks for this opportunity!
03:04:25 Glenn McKnight: Great session
03:04:28 Daniel Nanghaka: what an awesome session
03:04:28 Xavier Calvez - ICANN Org: Same here.
03:04:32 Herb Waye: Excellent session. Stay safe and be kind.
03:04:32 Alberto Soto: Thanks, bye bye!!
03:04:35 Dave Kissoondoyal: Yes great session
03:04:40 Jonathan Zuck: Fun stuff!
03:04:41 Heather Forrest: Thank you to all
03:04:42 Heidi Ullrich - ICANN Org: Thank you, everyone!
03:04:46 avri doria: Agree this has been a good and useful discussion. Thank you all.
03:04:46 Vanda Scartezini: thanks to all again !! for me quite useful
03:04:47 Lianna Galstyan: Thanks everyone.
03:04:51 Chokri Ben Romdhane: شكرا
03:04:53 Michel TCHONANG LINZE: Bye bye and see you
03:05:01 Marita Moll: Great session. Thanks
03:05:02 Glenn McKnight: Remember the ATLARGE TRIVIA GAME today
03:05:04 Steve DelBianco (CSG): +1 Seb
03:05:09 Manal Ismail: Great exchange .. Thanks to all involved !!
03:05:11 maureen hilyard: Great to hear that our CEO has appreciated our conversation initiated by At-Large
03:05:14 Xavier Calvez - ICANN Org: Merci Sebastien.
03:05:14 Gisella Gruber - ICANN Org: Please join us for the NARALO Trivia session next
03:05:15 Vanda Scartezini: join NARALO Trivia
03:05:15 Gisella Gruber - ICANN Org: 20:00-21:30 UTC - At-Large Trivia Event, hosted by NARALO (Social Event)
Zoom Registration: https://icann.zoom.us/meeting/register/tJUkcO6oqTooGNJBVf2qEqqc3e1yPhWrBjpY [icann.zoom.us]
03:05:22 Dave Kissoondoyal: Thanks and bye to all
03:05:25 Gisella Gruber - ICANN Org: Thank you all for joining
03:05:27 Olévié Kouami: Thanks Glen
03:05:30 Jonathan Zuck: Mental health
03:05:31 Hadia Elminiawi: bye