00:57:07 Glenn McKnight: Please note that the NARALO GA will be conducted on the ancestoral lands of the Tongva indigenous lands. We give thanks and more information about the Tongva nation With a link to an earlier article about the Tongva language: Tongva, Los Angeles’ first language, opens the door to a forgotten time and place - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)
00:58:26 Glenn McKnight: https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me-col1-tongva-language-native-american-tribe/#nt=00000183-c010-d88c-a7db-fcb3a04e0015-showMedia-title-promoSmall-enhancement
00:59:03 Bill Jouris: Note that the tent cards are one sided. If you can see your name, nobody else can.
01:08:59 Glenn McKnight: thanks Evan for a great story about John. he will be missed
01:09:33 Marita Moll: Yes, good thoughts. Thanks Evan.
01:11:35 Glenn McKnight: sorry i didn't see the message on unmuting my mic
01:14:21 Glenn McKnight: Ignore my recommendation on unmuting your mic to the speakers. Its the mic in the room I am referring to
01:24:28 Bill Jouris: Leon is an honorary member of NARALO.
01:26:17 Leon Sanchez: Thanks Bill. I am honored
01:27:30 Leon Sanchez: And I forgot to say I am from Mexico so just from across the street
01:28:57 Evan Leibovitch: Neat to haer Jacob's name. He actually recruited me into ICANN involvement in 2006.
01:31:33 Naela Sarras: I didn’t know that Evan. Jacob was great, really enjoyed working with him
01:35:34 Marita Moll: Sorry you are not feeling well enough to join us this morning JZ
01:36:02 Glenn McKnight: My sympathies to Jon I can sympathize , recovering from Pneumonia and limping with Gout
01:36:50 Glenn McKnight: All newcomers please reach out to any of the 'old timers" if you have any quesitions
01:37:21 Glenn McKnight: Andrey is based in Montreal and couldn't get his US visa to join us directly
01:38:52 Jonathan Zuck: Sorry, @Glenn. Both of those are rough. Gout feels like something that should have been gone by now. Feel better.
01:39:17 Leon Sanchez: Good to see you Sébastien!
01:39:27 Glenn McKnight: @Jon I am skiping dancing:)
01:39:35 Jonathan Zuck: Thanks @Marita. I had a family, with 3 kids, staying with me for a week. We did Disneyland, Zoo, etc. and we all have virgin immune systems again. Sigh.
01:40:50 Joe Catapano: Great to see and hear from everyone. I neglected to mention that I am based in Washington, DC.
01:42:00 Marita Moll: Canadian pronunciation @ greg
01:42:08 Chantelle Doerksen - ICANN Org: I also forgot to mention that I am based in Los Angeles, and I’ll be joining you in-person tomorrow
01:42:13 Glenn McKnight: @Joe you are dating yourself:)
01:42:49 Glenn McKnight: Thanks to David to take my normal job as photographer for the GA
01:42:55 Joe Catapano: Ha! I have my son to do that for me. He was born 6 days into my ICANN tenure. Easy to remember my time served!
01:43:09 Heidi Ullrich, ICANN org: The At-Large structure: https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=2265510&preview=/2265510/186779844/image2022-2-4_17-55-31.png
01:43:26 Bill Jouris: And I forgot to mention that I'm from Northern California. About 300 miles north -- which around here counts as driving distance.
01:44:11 Evan Leibovitch: everything here counts as driving distance
01:44:14 Glenn McKnight: Yes in some parts of Canada its a normal trip to Tim Hortons:)
01:44:26 Heidi Ullrich, ICANN org: The NARALO wiki workspace: https://community.icann.org/display/NARALO
01:45:09 Heidi Ullrich, ICANN org: The NARALO webpage: https://atlarge.icann.org/ralos/naralo
01:45:16 Glenn McKnight: Its important to call our Judith Hellerstein, former Secretariat and current NOMCOM member
01:46:00 Glenn McKnight: Also Darlene Thompson, secretariat
01:46:27 Heidi Ullrich, ICANN org: List of NARALO At-Large Structures: https://atlarge.icann.org/alses/naralo
01:46:58 Heidi Ullrich, ICANN org: Please make sure that your ALS wiki is up to date.
01:47:11 Alan Greenberg: Actually, NA was the last to sign. June 2007.
01:47:36 Glenn McKnight: Who is the guy with the mostache?
01:47:38 Jonathan Zuck: yws
01:48:38 Alan Greenberg: Dharma Dailey
01:49:23 Jonathan Zuck: Evan, the only one who read it before signing
01:51:06 Heidi Ullrich, ICANN org: Beau was with the ALS WebWatch, a consumer organization.
01:55:50 Jonathan Zuck: in fairness, the one GAC statement is really multiple statements in one document.
01:56:53 David Mackey: Nicely said Evan!
02:00:33 Alan Greenberg: Marita has had her hand up...
02:00:54 Marita Moll: I can wait, but thanks Alan.
02:01:58 Alan Greenberg: For the GAC, they still issue their per-meeting communique, but they now also issue statements and comments as needed in support of the policy process. A real change from the past.
02:02:12 Jonathan Zuck: At-Large Advisory Committee
02:02:40 Jonathan Zuck: +1 Greg
02:04:10 David Mackey: For new participants ... GAC = Governmental Advisory Committee - The GAC constitutes the voice of Governments and Intergovernmental Organizations (IGOs) in ICANN's multistakeholder structure.
02:04:36 Bill Jouris: ICANN -- it's all about acronyms
02:04:53 David Mackey: +1 Bill lol
02:05:22 Joe Catapano: There is a glossary available at: https://www.icann.org/en/icann-acronyms-and-terms?nav-letter=a&page=1
02:05:31 Evan Leibovitch: I am trying to make a broader point of using limited volunteer resources to do fewer but weightier comments, moving away from the focus on volume of statements.
02:06:04 Evan Leibovitch: "If I'd had more time I'd have written less" - Mark Tawin
02:07:58 Jonathan Zuck: +1 Greg
02:09:36 Glenn McKnight: I am doing notes of the sessions and trying to add the comments here in the chat
02:11:16 Jonathan Zuck: Non-commercial user constituency, non-profit org constituency, etc.
02:11:53 Jonathan Zuck: Rights vs Interests
02:12:28 David Mackey: For new participants ... NCUC = Noncommercial Users Constituency. The Noncommercial Users Constituency (NCUC) is the home for civil society organizations and individuals in the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) bottom-up policy making organ, the Generic Names Supporting Organization (GNSO).
02:13:01 Marita Moll: Thanks @David
02:13:41 Marita Moll: My remarks were for the benefit of those who have not been hanging around here for too long
02:15:20 Jonathan Zuck: I'm sipping tea
02:15:34 Ron da Silva: virtual

02:51:27 Evan Leibovitch: +1 to that. It's why I have never had a probem understanding the distinctio between NCUC and ALAC.
02:59:32 Alfredo Calderon (ISOC-Puerto Rico): The ICANN75 Policy Outcome Report is now available (see: https://go.icann.org/outcomes75)
03:00:09 Marita Moll: contracted parties -- businesses that contract with ICANN to manage domain names
03:01:02 Bill Jouris: Specifically, that contract with ICANN to run a top level domain (TLD). E.g. .com, .org, .edu, etc.
03:01:18 Marita Moll: thanks @Bill
03:01:19 Glenn McKnight: @Jon i wanted to point out on your first introduction on the status on the Survey in Hindi
03:01:48 Jonathan Zuck: thanks Glenn. Happy to discuss as we discuss IDNs
03:02:06 Marita Moll: DNS abuse -- phishing, pharming, spam when it involves malware
03:02:20 Alfredo Calderon (ISOC-Puerto Rico): Contracted Parties have a Summit scheduled for 1-4 November —-> https://www.icann.org/cpsummit
03:02:34 Glenn McKnight: I will be posting the link to the FLICKR pictures and busy trying to capture all the main points in the sessions. I will share the link. part of the Final Report and metrics. I am doing very short summaries
03:06:27 Andrey Shcherbovich: sorry I had some connectivity isssues, but now all is OK
03:07:02 Andrey Shcherbovich: My name is Andrey Shcherbovich, from Montreal, Canada
03:07:05 Glenn McKnight: @Jon if you please provide a link to the survey details I am doing notes on the session
03:07:26 Greg Shatan: Welcome, Andrey!
03:07:26 Glenn McKnight: @andrey we will circle back to you for a brief introduction
03:07:39 Marita Moll: Good points @Bill. That is a real end user issue. End users are not going to see the subtle differences with accents and other diacritics are involved
03:07:42 Alfredo Calderon (ISOC-Puerto Rico): <Comment>Some of the underlying issues are related to how to regulate the confusions end-users make confront when accessing a website/webservices/etc. Besides, having an universal definition of what is DNS Abuse.<Comment>
03:07:44 Jonathan Zuck: @Glenn, we don't have a public link to the survey yet. We aren't done compiling the results. staff can dig up the IDN session from ICANN75, however,.
03:08:51 Bill Jouris: @Marita, and there are 20 (twenty!) different diacritics. Any given language typically only uses a handful of those. So that means lots of (possibly very similar) diacritics available.
03:08:57 Jonathan Zuck: and part of why RALOs are going to become increasingly important
03:09:57 Jonathan Zuck: actually we're ALL end users, MOST OF THE TIME
03:12:03 Michael Palage: Here is a link to a recent OECD article on DNS Security which intersects with DNS Abuse, I would encourage everyone to read it, see https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/science-and-technology/security-of-the-domain-name-system-dns_285d7875-en
03:12:22 Jonathan Zuck: been there! had to spend $5k to get a domain back that I had inadvertently let go.
03:13:14 David Mackey: +1 Ron
03:14:26 Marita Moll: Most people don't get how that could affect them @Ron
03:14:33 Bill Jouris: +1 Jonathan. Had a similar experience, except that buying back was not an option.
03:16:03 Bill Jouris: Yes, it is an end user issue. In that, if I know a domain as somewhere I want to go, and someone else holds it hostage, I have a problem getting to what I want.
03:17:16 Evan Leibovitch: good answer, Greg
03:17:24 Marita Moll: I agree @Bill.
03:18:15 Marita Moll: Lots of domain name holders are not that internet savvy.
03:18:18 Evan Leibovitch: But that view -- focus on access -- needs to be the focus of the ALAC response.
03:19:22 Glenn McKnight: Pictures are uploaded to FLICKR
03:20:28 Glenn McKnight: https://www.flickr.com/photos/glennmcknight/sets/72177720303021889
03:20:47 Jonathan Zuck: and all your customers are the "end users" who have your old URL in favorites, etc.
03:20:55 Marita Moll: The domain name holder may not be the one managing the domain @Ron
03:22:24 Evan Leibovitch: The problem (that occurs frequently) arises is when "end users" come to ALAC to champion non-end-user issues.
03:23:02 Heidi Ullrich, ICANN org: The ICANN75 Policy Outcomes Report is at: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/ICANN75+Policy+Outcomes+Report
03:23:13 Jonathan Zuck: we'll have an IDN focused section, where we can mention the survey
03:23:25 Heidi Ullrich, ICANN org: This report details all of the SOAC/SG/RALO sessions that took place at ICANN75.
03:23:34 Evan Leibovitch: We have limited resources, both human and financial, and need to be discerning wrt the issues we choose to pursue.
03:24:47 Jonathan Zuck: agree completely @Evan though sometimes it means we'll focus on a PART of an issue.
03:25:09 Glenn McKnight: Thanks Heidi i forgot about the report outcomes report I shared it in the GA Resource page, sharing
03:27:32 Evan Leibovitch: I preceded Greg in being in the closed-generics working group, where I (again, coming from a strictly non-registrant end-user PoV) came to the conclusion that closed generics are just fine.
03:27:41 Marita Moll: Just getting your head around the language in ICANN is a major task. Subsequent procedures = writing/ adjusting the rules that apply to the next round of sales of top level domains
03:28:26 Evan Leibovitch: … which pre-supposes that new rounds are a Good Idea
03:28:53 Marita Moll: I think that train has left the station @Evan
03:28:59 Bill Jouris: @Evan, well it does represent a marketing opportunity....
03:29:10 Bill Jouris: For ICANN
03:29:23 Evan Leibovitch: left the station, travelling full speed, and the bridge is out.
03:29:36 Jonathan Zuck: @Evan, we should discuss Closed Discussions more. there ARE end user issues involved that we'll need to weigh somehow. We've come to believe that every .ORG represents a non-profit but that's not the case. What happens if .BOOK becomes the default place to find a book and it's operated by a single company?
03:30:05 Jonathan Zuck: lost audio?
03:31:06 Evan Leibovitch: Answer: It will never become the default. Too many alternatives. The public has long recognized that dot-thing is never a definitive location to find the thing.
03:31:11 Bill Jouris: And what happens if one guy has a domain name in .book, and another has the same name, but in .books
03:32:07 Glenn McKnight: Resources
03:32:08 Glenn McKnight: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1hp1v7ceknFQ_6jz4ps2xIKWKmdzReXImvEma7ZTkmGQ/edit?usp=sharing
03:32:21 Alan Greenberg: @Bill, that was an issue for the 2012 round, but is being addressed in any coming rounds.
03:32:45 Evan Leibovitch: The whole concept that a dictionary non-brand word can be an owned and traded commodity is well established. The ensuing lack of public trust in those words is non recoverable.
03:33:56 Bill Jouris: @Alan, an overly simplistic example, perhaps. But consider .book and .bȯȯk -- on the official determination of varients for the Latin script, those are different. Period.
03:33:58 Evan Leibovitch: So when .book comes out, the public will test it for reliability and judge whether to use it as designed
03:34:15 Glenn McKnight: Shared EPub on ICANN 75 Outcomes
03:34:16 Glenn McKnight: https://online.fliphtml5.com/gnel/ggcl/
03:34:32 Glenn McKnight: Thanks Leo and all for comments
03:34:33 Evan Leibovitch: Word-confusion is a very different issue from closed generics
03:34:56 Evan Leibovitch: or should I say string-confusion.
03:34:57 Glenn McKnight: See report on the IDN Survey
03:35:07 Jonathan Zuck: @Evan, you may be right but, like I said, with enough time and investment, it COULD become the default, much the way that ORG has. In any case, it's a topic for discussion.
03:35:31 Jonathan Zuck: it's kind of a world wide web of ....
03:37:40 Evan Leibovitch: In fact, the use of closed generics allows for a TLD owner to engage in innovative uses of domain space. For instance, .book could be a very useful book catalog based on Dewey or other criteria.
03:38:18 Jonathan Zuck: it doesn't have to closed to do that, @Evan. Look at .MUSEUM
03:38:26 Heidi Ullrich, ICANN org: All, this session will run for another 30 mins followed by the lunch break for those in person between 12:30 and 1:30.
03:39:33 Greg Shatan: Evan, this is why the small group is looking at how to allow closed generics that serve the public interest (without abusing the term public interest).
03:39:35 Heidi Ullrich, ICANN org: All At-Large Summits and RALO General Assemblies are listed here: https://atlarge.icann.org/events/index
03:39:49 Evan Leibovitch: @Greg... fair enough
03:40:22 Heidi Ullrich, ICANN org: ATLAS I: https://atlarge.icann.org/events/atlas1-en
03:42:16 Marita Moll: Unstructured discussion is much more conducive to creativity and innovation. So, periodic meetings are essential to groups that want to evolve
03:43:19 Heidi Ullrich, ICANN org: Each ATLAS was a milestone in the evolution of At-Large.
03:43:43 Mildred Weiss: @Marita - totally agree!
03:48:05 Heidi Ullrich, ICANN org: ATLAS III - https://community.icann.org/display/ATLAS3/At-Large+Summit+III+Home
03:49:34 Jonathan Zuck: it was focused a lot on capacity building, with skills based workshops, etc.
03:50:01 Heidi Ullrich, ICANN org: A key outcome of ATLAS III is the post-ATLAS III outcomes report: https://community.icann.org/display/ATLAS3/ATLAS+III+Reporting+Working+Group?preview=/126421927/138969927/Post-ATLASIII%20Survey%20Final%20Report%20-%20v3.1%20(1).pdf
03:51:13 Glenn McKnight: NARALO members included Adrian Schmidt and David McKey at ATLAS 3 and continue to be engaged and involved
03:52:51 Heidi Ullrich, ICANN org: At-Large Review Workspace: https://community.icann.org/display/ALRW which covers both the 1st and 2nd At-Large reviews.
03:53:31 Bill Jouris: ALSs are a recruiting tool. The question is what other approaches to recruiting (i.e. individual members) might be possible.
03:54:29 Marita Moll: Another question is what tools are available for ALSs to recruit their members
03:55:32 Glenn McKnight: Note folks. i am adding Heidi's link to the daily notes as part of the Final Report Appendix.
03:55:56 Jonathan Zuck: more like an overlap of interests
03:56:01 Glenn McKnight: Daily report includes Flickr pictures
03:56:18 Glenn McKnight: @jon are you coming tomorrow to the GA?
03:57:00 Bill Jouris: @Jonathan, but being part of both ICANN and an ALS takes up additional bandwidth. Which, for most of us, is limited.
03:57:34 Marita Moll: +1 @ Bill
03:58:12 Jonathan Zuck: @BJ, was just talking about something to say other than “linkage,” that's all.
03:58:28 Bill Jouris: @JZ, point taken
03:58:47 Heidi Ullrich, ICANN org: NARALO organizing documents workspace: https://community.icann.org/display/NARALO/RALO+Organising+Documents
04:05:05 Glenn McKnight: Noe the NARALO ROP was adopted by the majority of NARALO membership. Will post the link
04:06:12 Silvia Vivanco: NARALO ROP update Review : https://community.icann.org/display/NARALO/NARALO+Rules+of+Procedure+-+update+2022
04:06:23 Silvia Vivanco: With the data for approval
04:06:41 Silvia Vivanco: And all relevant details
04:06:48 Glenn McKnight: Thanks Silvia i just sent a request to Heidi
04:06:54 Glenn McKnight: posting to daily notes

05:30:41 Mildred Weiss: Can you share the link in the chat?
05:30:58 Giose McGinty: na-engagement@icann.org
05:31:06 Mildred Weiss: Thanks!
05:31:19 Jonathan Zuck: could you perhaps DEFINE outreach and engagement?
05:35:13 Alfredo Calderon (ISOC-Puerto Rico): <COMMENT>I may have missed it, what is the difference between “Outreach” and “Engagement”?<COMMENT>
05:35:20 Joe Catapano: Here is a link to the UA coursework from earlier in the year: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/regional-universal-acceptance-training-2021-01-06-en
05:36:45 David Mackey: Can someone please post a link to the ICANN FY21-25 Strategic Plan, if available?
05:37:16 Joe Catapano: @David: https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/strategic-plan-2021-2025-24jun19-en.pdf
05:37:31 Alfredo Calderon (ISOC-Puerto Rico): <QUESTION>Re-engage implies in-person events taking place in the region. Do we have CROP funds available?
05:37:36 David Mackey: Thank you Joe :-)
05:37:59 Joe Catapano: Available in other languages as well: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/strategic-engagement-2013-10-10-en
05:38:12 Joe Catapano: *Other than English
05:38:38 Jonathan Zuck: interesting defintion
05:39:05 Alfredo Calderon (ISOC-Puerto Rico): <Question>How does the New ICANN Beginners Program compare to the ongoing ICANN Learn courses?
05:39:25 Betsy Andrews: We’ll touch on that shortly, Alfredo ;) (hi!)
05:39:50 Alfredo Calderon (ISOC-Puerto Rico): Hi @Betsy. Great to know you are around.
05:40:09 Leon Sanchez: CROP is an important issue Alfredo. It's funds were transitioned from being pilot into a standing item in the budget but during the pandemic, obviously, the funds were "suspended”(maybe not the right word). So I believe CROP funds will be available again soon
05:40:10 Betsy Andrews:
05:40:45 Glenn McKnight: Betsy is "on deck" for our next session.
05:45:57 Jonathan Zuck: TOP LEVEL domains
05:47:10 Alfredo Calderon (ISOC-Puerto Rico): Gracias @Leon for your respond on CROP funds. In our region there are 3-party organizations with which we want to continue cultivating them, but that implies participating in person. However, if the ICANN protocols or similar are not embedded in the event, it is my understanding that it will not be Travel Funded by ICANN. Hope to see CROP available with corresponding guidelines to submit applications.
05:47:16 Jonathan Zuck: 20—>1500
05:48:32 Heidi Ullrich: This session is scheduled to end at 2:15 PDT.
05:48:35 Leon Sanchez: Thanks Alfredo. As for protocols, we need to remember these have been fluid with the situation so I would expect those protocols to evolve as the situation evolves as well
05:50:03 Jonathan Zuck: We've begun to speak of:
05:50:10 Jonathan Zuck: Getting People In
05:50:12 Jonathan Zuck: Getting word out
05:50:59 Jonathan Zuck: those are tactics, not definitions
05:52:10 Jonathan Zuck: we define what it is for the At-Large community, not the whole ICANN community. That's why I'm saying there's overlap that might not be 100%
05:53:12 Joe Catapano: @Jonathan - I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. Our O&E has to be within ICANN’s remit, but beyond that - there’s room to be creative.
05:54:16 Naela Sarras: It was in the 200+ range
05:54:31 Naela Sarras: That participated in Universal Acceptance
05:55:26 Jonathan Zuck: Thanks @Joe. Don't mean to put you on the spot. The times when our objectives overlap, the cooperation is almost self evident. It's those cases where you or WE have, for example, messages, that do not overlap. Would we still try to coordinate that with you guys, from a resources and logistics standpoint?
05:56:16 Silvia Vivanco: @Glenn more than 225 participants took the Universal acceptance training sessions
05:56:30 Jonathan Zuck: Great point, Glen. If those objectives are not part of the current strategic plan, they might NOT be on GSE's list of objectives. Just thinking out loud here.
05:56:31 Leon Sanchez: <Comment> As mentioned by Naela, GSE works with other ICANN org areas but that doesn't seem to be clear to community members. For example, I understand the budget to make this GA happen comes from the Policy team's pocket and not from GSE. That is something few people know and a good practice I suggest could be that we communicate this in a more clear way to constituents so that they know who to address their needs to. So in some way, GSE may be the facilitator under this new approach but to maximize the outcome it would be best that their inter-relations with other ICANN areas are well understood by the community <Comment>
05:57:12 Silvia Vivanco: UA newsletter Article: https://myemail.constantcontact.com/ICANN-North-America-Newsletter---February-2022-.html?soid=1118638566701&aid=BhPPfux7Nfg
05:58:31 Joe Catapano: @Jonathan - I think that is something that we as GSE should discuss with NARALO leadership.
05:58:43 Alfredo Calderon (ISOC-Puerto Rico): @Leon, you make an interesting comment that has to be understood by all. I personaly, NOW I understand what GSE focused is.
05:59:21 Naela Sarras: Yes @Joanathan, I think we need to discuss what those cases would be and how we can be involved?
05:59:43 Marita Moll: @Leon @Alfredo -- Leon's comments are really interesting to me and I hope he will get a chance to expand a bit on them.
06:00:20 Jonathan Zuck: Thanks @Naela
06:00:47 Naela Sarras: Thanks @Heidi for the clarification
06:01:48 Naela Sarras: And to Leon’s point, Leon is absolutely right, GSE will help with outreach and engagement efforts of NARALO but the Policy team will continue to do all the great work that they have been doing
06:02:32 Alfredo Calderon (ISOC-Puerto Rico): Thanks @Heidi for the clarification. It would be great to have a session where we could better understand the organization structure the three areas that you mentioned.
06:02:51 Jonathan Zuck: screw loose..,.
06:03:30 Jonathan Zuck: ICANN's remit AND the current strategic plan, though, right, @Joe?
06:03:50 David Mackey: Thanks for the question Evan. +1 response Joe
06:04:22 Naela Sarras: Agree with Joe’s response.
06:05:07 Evan Leibovitch: Just want to confirm that this kind of thing (public education with the target being pubic awareness rather than engagement with ICANN) is in scope.
06:05:32 Jonathan Zuck: geographic names
06:06:51 Jonathan Zuck: Yes, @Evan. First slide was helping to promote ICANN technical stature. That's a "message out" activity rather than a recruiting effort.
06:07:55 Greg Shatan: Sorry I gave an incomplete definition of Outreach!
06:08:52 Jonathan Zuck: The point, @Greg, is that those two words probably no longer cover all of our or their objectives. Something to revisit, perhaps.
06:09:37 Evan Leibovitch: To be blunt: the DNS is infrastructure. Everyone wants safe streets but very few get involve in traffic planning or road construction policy. It is unreasonable to expect that most people have either the time of the technical literacy to participate. So they trust the self-identified people who *do* care so long at the trust remains. And sometimes you need campaigns to help people use the streets safely. And it's important to make participation accessible to those people who want.
06:10:12 Betsy Andrews: Haha a classic, Greg. Nice.
06:12:32 Jonathan Zuck: Yes, @Evan and, if we don’t, someone else will
06:12:36 Jonathan Zuck: https://www.vox.com/2015/1/15/7551873/jaywalking-history
06:13:03 Evan Leibovitch: You don't see agencies spending a lot of "outreach" effort to recruit people to get involved in traffic policy, even though its outcomes affect everyone. Just make it easy for those who do want in.
06:13:51 Bill Jouris: At minimum, make it easy for someone who is interested to FIND us. Which, currently, it isn't.
06:14:00 Evan Leibovitch: YES
06:14:12 Leon Sanchez: Completely agree
06:14:40 Heidi Ullrich: The At-Large ICANN Learn courses are at: https://atlarge.icann.org/about/index
06:14:45 Leo Jweda: @Betsy It would be nice to have the ability to filter the courses by language.
06:16:00 Evan Leibovitch: A broad public information campaign, with a tagline: "want to know more or get involved? Go <here>." WIll accomplish plenty of engagement-focused outreach.
06:17:48 Bill Jouris: @Betsy, one place to start would be better advertising internally. I think I wass involved in ICANN for 4-5 years before I even *heard* of ICANN Learn.
06:21:03 Yubelkys Montalvo: Saludos Alfredo!
06:21:26 Evan Leibovitch: My introduction to the politics of jaywalking was this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxopfjXkArM
06:22:21 James Paek: I already applied for the newcomers program. Look forward to this pilot program and hope it is going to be great.
06:24:23 James Paek: Definitely, it is good idea to test these pilot programs to identify the needs for newcomers especially for myself, still struggling to get the concept of ICANN mission and ways to contribute even though I attended these meetings including ICANN fellowship.
06:24:28 Mildred Weiss: I think I missed the link for the webminar for November... can you re send that? I see the link in the slide...
06:25:42 David Mackey: Not the dinosaur. I thought Greg is the King of Hollywood now.
06:26:38 Evan Leibovitch: Perhaps ICANN Learn can be a Coursera provider? Or something like that.
06:26:47 Marita Moll: @Michael -- that has been my perennial complaint about ICANN learn. As a barrier free on ramp -- it does not work
06:27:12 Bill Jouris: Maybe just put ICANN Learn *outise* the firewall
06:27:35 Bill Jouris: outise => outside
06:28:14 David Mackey: measuring public engagement may be a solveable problem
06:28:18 Evan Leibovitch: LinkedIn learn. University of the People. There are MANY platforms on which this can work. And, as an update on Michael's idea … digital certificate
06:29:06 Bill Jouris: <COMMENT> Which is a higher priority: measuring how much is learned by people in ICANN, or getting more people, whether inside or outside, to learn more about ICANN?
06:29:48 Mildred Weiss: Love the idea of badge or certificate!
06:31:16 Marita Moll: It is okay to say it is dry @Leo
06:32:04 Bill Jouris: There's no obvious reason why we can't have YouTube videos about ICANN topics which are separate from what is offered from ICANN Learn
06:32:30 David Mackey: It may be worthwhile for edutainment type engagement for a portion of public engagement (referring back to Joe's comment on the range of ICANN participation)
06:32:55 Bill Jouris: +1@David
06:32:58 Jonathan Zuck: Everything is awesome!
06:33:24 Leo Jweda: Thank you :)
06:34:07 Bill Jouris: Now all you nead is something on the page to TELL people to use the search field that way
06:34:58 Jonathan Zuck: but it doesn't tell you whether they learned anything, Evan
06:36:18 David Mackey: Maximum reach is needed for part of our outreach & engagement needs
06:36:22 James Paek: I totally agree with the statement. Increase opportunities and limit barriers.
06:37:09 Betsy Andrews: @Leo My last note is that there are a lot of newly translated courses that are coming in the next few months.
06:37:44 Betsy Andrews: Hi @Bill - that’s important feedback. Noted.
06:37:48 Marita Moll: Hi Maureen. Welcome to our GA
06:38:39 Evan Leibovitch: @Zonathan, of course you can't prove someone has absorbed what they've learned by their merely attending.
06:39:07 Jonathan Zuck: @Evan, let's plan a discusson on this rather than holding a paralell convo
06:39:27 Leo Jweda: @Betsy: Since you are aware of the video, in contrast, this is ICANN's blog entry on the subject: https://www.icann.org/en/blogs/details/the-problem-with-the-seven-keys-13-2-2017-en
06:40:55 Betsy Andrews: @Evan thanks for your input. I didn’t say that YouTube does not provide sufficient analytics. What we’re trying to measure, as @Jonathan notes, has more to do with whether the learner are learning the concepts that we are training. (Also, a side note, Coursera did not meet the minimum standards required by our IT department) I think a better approach to this dilemma may be to make a clearer distinction between what you want to offer for training and what you want to offer in terms of information that you are providing as a part of your engagement strategy — it may be that what you’re really trying to address isn’t actually training, it’s comms and outreach?
06:41:34 Evan Leibovitch: @Jonathan; happy to follow up any way desirable, but my main point is that education efforts should be driven by maximum accessibility first, and everything comes later. I'm fairly knowledgeable on this realm but the details don't matter if the core principle is … misdirected.
06:42:29 Bill Jouris: @Evan, in short, ICANN Learn needs to have the correct core mission.
06:42:37 David Mackey: @Betsy Good point. Education can be used for both external outreach/engagement and internal capacity building ... both are important
06:46:04 Mildred Weiss: @Betsy Having the clear WHY of ICANN learn will help the next steps. It is a huge job and very ambitious
06:46:33 Betsy Andrews: Thanks @David and yes, @Evan, I agree with you about ensuring the core premise is on track. I think it may help to take a few steps back and consider the aims of content and the mode of content delivery as a part of the discussion of accessibility. With regards to ICANN Account, there is a large amount of data and reporting done on learning factors that we would have to eliminate due to privacy concerns if we provide the online training without a login ( a part of which is to accept the privacy policy), and those who use that data to inform their decisions have a valid voice in this discussion as well.
06:46:36 Jonathan Zuck: FOLKS, lets focus on THIS presentation now. Thanks!
06:46:48 Betsy Andrews: Thanks, @Mildred. That’s a great point.
06:49:48 Michael Palage: Great presentation Maureen
06:49:59 David Mackey: Thank you Maureen!
06:50:11 Michael Palage: Very agile approach toward policy development
06:50:17 Marita Moll: Question from JZ
06:50:19 Mildred Weiss: @Maureen your approach here reminds me of PBL (Project Base Learning) in Education (my background) We learn more “doing” that listening
06:51:01 Bill Jouris: And because he already has tea, so he doesn't care about a coffee break
06:51:05 Maureen Hilyard: Thank you Michael and David
06:51:57 David Mackey: There's definitely linkage between the different parts of NARALO +1 Jonathan
06:52:21 Leon Sanchez: Good to see you @Maureen!

07:23:05 Glenn McKnight: As Greg menitioned we encourage suggested action items
07:23:14 Glenn McKnight: A summary set of notes will be shared
07:24:20 Evan Leibovitch: C-10 Copmaratively, in Canada, little else matters so much to Internet stability
07:24:23 Evan Leibovitch: https://openmedia.org/article/item/whats-wrong-with-bill-c-10-an-faq
07:34:03 Heidi Ullrich: Government of Canada page on C-10: https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/pl/charter-charte/c10_2.html#:~:text=The%20Minister%20of%20Justice%20has,and%20features%20of%20the%20Bill.
07:34:06 Marita Moll: I see all that as content -- outside of ICANN remit @Evan
07:35:13 Glenn McKnight: https://www.michaelgeist.ca/tag/bill-c-10/
07:35:24 Glenn McKnight: archive of Bill C 10
07:35:28 Evan Leibovitch: It affects stability and could prioritize some domains over others
07:35:33 Glenn McKnight: lots of pushback on Bill C 10
07:35:36 Leon Sanchez: Agree Greg. We should take a deeper look into implications of legislation that might damage the internet even if the primary purpose of said pieces of legislation might be outside of ICANN's remit
07:38:12 Glenn McKnight: Folks put your hand up if you have questions
07:38:43 Naela Sarras: To David’s point about tracking legislation, the ICANN Government Engagement (GE) team does have a legislative tracker tool where they monitory proposed legislative processes around the world and study impact on ICANN’s remit. The GE team holds a session at each ICANN meeting to present their observations and engage in discussion with the community.
07:39:40 David Mackey: +1@Naela That's good to know.
07:40:42 Naela Sarras: We have also collaborated on webinars with the GE team to hold a webinar when there are issues that warrant community attention
07:42:08 Judith Hellerstein: ICANN also is very active working with the UN, ITU )ITU-T Standards, ITU-D Development sector, and other international groups
07:53:22 Glenn McKnight: https://www.icann.org/en/governement-engagement/publications
07:54:00 Joe Catapano: Yes @Judith, ICANN is a Sector Member of ITU-D, ICANN participates as an observer at the Plenipotentiary.
07:54:33 Glenn McKnight: Folks I am working on the notes of the session and adding the links from the chat and will add the slideshow links to Epub. Will have the update for tomorrow
07:55:05 Glenn McKnight: An evaluation survey of the GA will be sent around tomorrow as well
07:55:29 Jonathan Zuck: Basically the ICANN of the international phone system…
07:56:02 Marita Moll: Who would like to subsume the ICANN role @JZ
07:56:06 David Mackey: @Jonathan That description may be incomplete lol
07:56:07 Joe Catapano: Here is the link to the GE publications, for your reference: https://www.icann.org/en/government-engagement/publications
07:56:36 Glenn McKnight: ITU started with the telegraph I believe the Toronto Exchange centre on Front street has a plaque dedicated to the first telegraph transmission
07:56:43 Jonathan Zuck: It HAS become incomplete, over time, due to feature creep
07:57:13 David Mackey: Feature creep like the TCP/IP protocol
07:57:18 Glenn McKnight: December 19, 1846The first telegraph message transmitted in Canada was sent from Toronto to Hamilton on December 19, 1846 by the Toronto-Hamilton-Niagara and St. Catharines Electro-Magnetic Telegraph Company. It was the birth of Canada's telecommunications industry, an industry that was crucial to the development of this vast country.
07:57:37 Glenn McKnight: TORX headquarters on Front street
07:58:07 Evan Leibovitch: Though it did not start that way, ITU is now the United Nations agency charged with all things ICT.
07:58:21 Evan Leibovitch: one of the few agencies that uses the .int TLD
07:59:00 Evan Leibovitch: (not managed by ICANN )
07:59:06 Glenn McKnight: TORIX
07:59:07 Glenn McKnight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Internet_Exchange
07:59:52 David Mackey: @Evan I didn't realize there were TLDs that aren't managed by ICANN. That's interesting.
08:00:14 Marita Moll: ITU is not running on a multistakeholder model -- it is industry and governments.
08:00:25 Glenn McKnight: If in Toronto its worth doing a tour at Torix
08:00:32 David Mackey: @Marita Yes, that’s important to understand
08:00:54 Evan Leibovitch: You mean outside of the country codes? Also .EDU, .GOV and .MIL are not managed by ICANN
08:01:28 David Mackey: @Evan Understood. Fair enough
08:01:48 Marita Moll: ICANN's multistakeholder model provides a counterbalance to ITU
08:02:44 David Mackey: @Marita One may even say ICANN's MS model is superior
08:03:11 Marita Moll: Yes, @ David and ITU would like to see it go away
08:03:14 David Mackey: ... with obvious limitations too
08:03:14 Judith Hellerstein: @evan exactly
08:03:29 Judith Hellerstein: @marita will never happen
08:04:06 Judith Hellerstein: In fact internet issues got resolved at the plenipot while connectivity issues did not
08:05:06 Evan Leibovitch: Stupid trivia: an acronym is pronounceable as a word (ie, ICANN, ALAC) An initialism is an abbreviation that is not pronounecable (ie, ITU, GNSO)
08:05:10 Judith Hellerstein: Cyber issues also got resolved only issues that were blocked are connectivity and a desire to pay particular attention to the growing gender, indigenous, persons with disabilities divide
08:06:33 Glenn McKnight: Folks the daily summary will have Epub links to the slideshows from today
08:07:46 Evan Leibovitch: @Marita, this is why I wanted to call attention to Doreen's election. I am hoping her leadership leads to a friendlier relationship. Historically ITU has been covetous of ICANN's function (and the money wouldn't hurt too).
08:07:49 Bill Jouris: @Even, couldn't ITU be pronounced et tu [Brute}...?
08:08:25 Evan Leibovitch:
08:08:47 Judith Hellerstein: @evan that was mostly the case more than 8 years ago and not recently
08:09:45 Judith Hellerstein: No one and I mean no one wants a repeat of WCIT
08:10:33 Glenn McKnight: Folks Dr. Shcherbowich is a Lawyer from University of Moscow and was critical of Putin and his legislative changes to his lifelong tenure. As a result he and his staff were fired and he fled to Montreal
08:10:45 Judith Hellerstein: Hence the agreement to keep the dead horse of the ITRS alive as a working group that does nothing but allows an escape valve for ITR and other issues
08:11:05 Naela Sarras: On the primer we had earlier, one suggestion is if we have newcomers coming into meetings, to provide them with learning resources to review coming into the meeting. ICANN Learn can help with this if there is interest
08:11:05 David Mackey: Q: Have the drafts been published for public consumption? Is there a link?
08:11:27 Judith Hellerstein: Other funny story is that I lost against him in the 2020 IGF USA Trivia
08:12:13 Glenn McKnight: Curious is there a SIG with ISOC with this constituency?
08:12:35 Judith Hellerstein: @david drafts of the plenipot? Yes they are on the ITU Plenipot site
08:12:48 David Mackey: Definition: SIG = School of Internet Governance ... right Glenn?
08:13:05 Greg Shatan: @Glenn, there are no more Special Interest Groups (SIGs) in the ISOC set-up.
08:13:13 Glenn McKnight: I think the level of knowledge and expertise of the fellows and NexGen is not common knowledge
08:13:16 Judith Hellerstein: @ Glenn I think he was talking about SIG=Special interest group
08:13:55 Glenn McKnight: Yes i am
08:14:06 David Mackey: @Judith I was referring to Dr Shcrerbovich's student paper drafts … not ITU Plenipot
08:14:26 Judith Hellerstein: @glenn all SIGs were disbanded in favor of Standing Groups.
08:14:26 Evan Leibovitch: In multiple conversations with colleagues in NCUC I have attempted to understand the end-user effects of the DNS on human rights. I have rarely found the answers satisfying.
08:15:01 David Mackey: Hmmmm, there are way too many TLAs (Three Letter Acronyms)
08:15:32 Evan Leibovitch: I can understand registry and registry human rights issues regarding access and obstacles. Less clear are the end user consequences
08:15:43 Evan Leibovitch: @David, sorry
08:16:31 Bill Jouris: @David, that's why we need TLA-Es (three letter acronyms extended. I.e. Four letter acronyms.)
08:17:01 Glenn McKnight: Due to time I'm going to focus on the three presentations then if time permits we will take quesitions
08:17:30 Evan Leibovitch: NCUC = Non-Commercial User Constituency, a body within ICANN (mainly) populated by NGOs, advocates and academics
08:19:01 Evan Leibovitch: (not the official description )
08:22:43 Evan Leibovitch: (As befitting a community of NGOs and Academics, the NCUC website is explicitly and proudly not hosted by ICANN) https://www.ncuc.org/
08:24:43 Glenn McKnight: Folks if you have any questions for the speakers please let us know. please keep your questions and the answers short due to time limitations
08:25:21 Glenn McKnight: We will conclude today with a very brief wrap by Greg, Glenn and staff
08:25:38 Evan Leibovitch: question
08:25:50 Evan Leibovitch: for jessica
08:26:42 Glenn McKnight: Folks the ARIN Social is at 6 pm at Loew and our Dinner is at 7 30 at the Taft Building the Wood and Vine Restaurant at 6280 Hollywood Blvd at Vine Street
08:26:47 David Mackey: Q: Have the student drafts, mentioned by Dr. Shcherbovich been published for public consumption? If yes, is there a link?
08:27:26 Glenn McKnight: The restraunt is next to the W
08:30:43 James Paek: I totally agree with Jessica for all the proposals. Definitely, these are essential in order to provide preparation for next gen ICANN program
08:30:56 David Mackey: Wonderful! Thank you Jessica ... and CONGRATULATIONS!
08:32:57 James Paek: I totally agree with public attitudes toward research such as survey and interviews. That is something that all of us can do without research experience. It is helpful to gain full understanding of internet attitudes toward everyday global internet users.
08:34:16 Jonathan Zuck: What the world needs now is love, sweet love
It's the only thing that there's just too little of
08:34:42 Jonathan Zuck: Er Data, I mean data…
08:34:54 Marita Moll: What kind of tea are drinking up there JZ. Can we get some
08:35:36 Jonathan Zuck: @Marita, is a special brew of tea, antibiotics and cough medicine…
08:37:00 Evan Leibovitch: what proof is the cought medicine?
08:37:14 Marita Moll: Note for Andrey Shcherbovich: I am always hoping for some Canadian version of the Internet Governance Project at Georgia U.
08:37:23 Glenn McKnight: i noticed alot of cannabis shops, perhaps cannabis tea
08:37:26 Michael Palage: Since I missed the queue - I will type question here for all panelists and for ICANN Org. Are any of these materials open sourced, if so what type of open source license is attributed to this material?
08:38:21 Jonathan Zuck: @Palage, with docs you're probably thinking of Creative Commons, not open source, per se
08:39:10 Glenn McKnight: A shout out to James Paek for joining us today a NexGen/Fellow from ICANN meetings and was mentored by Alfredo Calderon
08:39:28 Evan Leibovitch: I as just about to write the same thing. Open Source is typically for code, CC is more common for documents. In Academia the usual lingo is Open Access.
08:39:40 James Paek: Thanks, Glenn for a shout out.
08:39:47 Glenn McKnight: Welcome James
08:40:06 Glenn McKnight: We are out of time and need to wrap up
08:40:39 Glenn McKnight: You can take the subway/metro one or two stops to the Loews. I think its the Highland stop
08:40:46 Glenn McKnight: Need to check the google map
08:41:30 Evan Leibovitch: When an academic wants to get involved in ICANN, is there a resource that allows them to make an informed decision about whether to participate in ALAC or NCUC?
08:41:30 David Mackey: @Evan, there's a potential for an Elinor Ostrom Knowledge Commons space that goes beyond Creative Commons licenses ... but let's take that idea offline for now -)
08:41:33 David Mackey: :-)
08:41:50 Glenn McKnight: http://subway.umka.org/map-los-angeles/red-line/hollywood-highland.html
08:41:56 Glenn McKnight: One stop
08:42:26 Alan Greenberg: Generally an ALS needs to largely be within one REGION (but North America is in NA!). HOWEVER, we now have a way to have an ALS that spans regions.
08:42:30 Jonathan Zuck: @Evan, I don't believe such a document exists
08:42:31 Andrey Shcherbovich: Andrey.shcherbowich@affiliate.mcgill.ca
08:42:33 Eduardo Diaz: Stop is Hollywood/Highland
08:43:17 James Paek: Bring more youth engagement to At-Large
08:43:51 Andrey Shcherbovich: I am really appreciate comments and open for cooperation
08:44:39 David Mackey: Thank you to all the presenters & participants today. Great conversations!
08:44:40 Leon Sanchez: Great day! Thanks all!

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