13:50:36 From Denise Hochbaum To Everyone:
Hello Michelle,
13:51:18 From Denise Hochbaum To Everyone:
It is nice to be back ! :-)
13:52:05 From Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org To Everyone:
Yes, welcome back
13:59:12 From Louis Houle To Everyone:
Bonjour eveyone
13:59:13 From Heidi Ullrich To Everyone:
Welcome, All!
13:59:48 From David Mackey To Everyone:
Hi Louis, Heidi and all others
14:02:55 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Hello everybody
14:03:28 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Can I have a link to DNS abuse bilateral contract amendment public comment?
14:07:23 From JOTHAN FRAKES To Everyone:
@Jonathan Zuck it is called 'voluntorture' ;)
14:07:29 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Oh great JZ. Can you send me your public comment on DNS abuse?
14:09:09 From Pablo Rodriguez - ccNSO Council To Everyone:
Greetings all!! it is good to see you.
14:09:28 From Jonathan Zuck To Everyone:
Hi @Farzi, I can take a look where it ended up but it was really just a comment supporting the recent contract amendments being proposed by the CPH and ICANN. Not a lot of additional substance.
14:10:14 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Really
14:10:31 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Here is the link: https://www.icann.org/en/public-comment/proceeding/amendments-base-gtld-ra-raa-modify-dns-abuse-contract-obligations-29-05-2023/submissions/policy-staff-in-support-of-the-at-large-community-at-large-advisory-committee-alac-19-07-2023
14:13:23 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Bill’s hand was up too then I can talk
14:13:53 From Greg Shatan To Everyone:
Bill you are next, followed by Farzi
14:14:05 From Greg Shatan To Everyone:
and then Stephen
14:14:59 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
I wanna say a few things about NomCom too!
14:15:13 From Greg Shatan To Everyone:
Reacted to "I wanna say a few th..." with
14:15:47 From Greg Shatan To Everyone:
I will put NomCom on the "hot list"
14:15:59 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Bad actors is such a polarized term
14:16:06 From Greg Shatan To Everyone:
Reacted to "Bad actors is such a..." with
14:16:46 From Bill Jouris To Everyone:
Replying to "Bad actors is such a..."
But accurate
14:16:53 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Replying to "Bad actors is such a..."
No.
14:17:49 From JOTHAN FRAKES To Everyone:
Replying to "Bad actors is such a..."
I always picture Tom Arnold when we mention bad actors
14:17:57 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Replying to "Bad actors is such a..."
Keanu Reeves
14:18:06 From Greg Shatan To Everyone:
Replying to "Bad actors is such a..."
I have a picture of me with Tom Arnold.
14:18:17 From JOTHAN FRAKES To Everyone:
Replying to "Bad actors is such a..."
that's awesome.
14:18:30 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Mitigation measures as we said in our public comment is open ended and broad
14:18:46 From Jonathan Zuck To Everyone:
Tom Arnold was GREAT in True Lies!
14:19:06 From judith hellerstein To Everyone:
Happy to talk about nomcom as well
14:19:25 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
That was a good point that Ken led during drafting NCSG comment
14:19:59 From JOTHAN FRAKES To Everyone:
IP addresses are the second N in ICANN... but they've been a no-fly zone
14:26:22 From Jonathan Zuck To Everyone:
I'm not sure that that component of the contract was really new though. Need to discuss further.
14:26:37 From Greg Shatan To Everyone:
If you wish to speak, please raise your online hand (under the Reactions menu). Thanks!
14:26:56 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
You can be a rebel like me JZ … don’t raise your hand!
14:27:42 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
At NCUC we care about freedom of expression access to information and issues of human rights and want to keep ICANN’s mandate limited so that it doesn’t become a content regulator. (Which is against its bylaws)
14:27:53 From David Mackey To Everyone:
+1 Ken Thanks for your perspective
14:28:23 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
There was a wave because of WHOIS personal information redaction.
14:29:21 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Cyberdoomsdays drummers were full on display (which really didn’t happen even during COVID-19, with the increase in use of DNS)
14:30:01 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Here is the blog: https://digitalmedusa.org/internet-multistakeholder-model-a-trade-association-with-multistakeholder-theater/
14:31:47 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Adding spam was a bad idea.
14:32:00 From Greg Shatan To Everyone:
FYI, the International Trademark Association (INTA) has passed a resolution supporting a different definition of DNS Abuse. https://www.inta.org/wp-content/uploads/public-files/advocacy/board-resolutions/INTA-Board-Resolution-on-Domain-Name-System-Abuse-May-2023.pdf
14:32:16 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Yes of course they wanna expand it!
14:33:40 From Eduardo Diaz To Everyone:
INTA definition in that resolution is as follows:
BE IT RESOLVED, that it is the position of INTA that “DNS Abuse” should be understood and defined as “any activity that makes, or intends to make, use of domain names, the Domain Name System protocol, or any digital identifiers that are similar in form or function to domain names to carry out deceptive, malicious, or illegal activity.”
14:34:01 From Jonathan Zuck To Everyone:
Many in the community want to expand the definition, for sure but I'm not sure it was expanded by the amendments, that's all. it would take community discussion.
14:35:15 From Jonathan Zuck To Everyone:
This discussion of contracts really had nothing to do with GDPR. It was simply about contract enforcement.
14:36:03 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
In an ICANN contract. That is important
14:36:12 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Framework they can talk all they want about it
14:36:21 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
When ICANN has to enforce it, it’s another matter
14:38:35 From Eduardo Diaz To Everyone:
Auctions?
14:40:20 From Greg Shatan To Everyone:
14:41:49 From Eduardo Diaz To Everyone:
Pro Bono for applicants?
14:42:27 From Jonathan Zuck To Everyone:
I guess that's the a special section @eduardo. there were a number of important discussions on app support
14:42:53 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Frankly dear, I don’t give a damn about new gtlds. As if the older ones did so well.
14:43:12 From Jonathan Zuck To Everyone:
Reacted to "Frankly dear, I don’..." with
14:43:41 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
We should have invited Kathy to talk about closed generics
14:43:56 From Stephen Deerhake To Everyone:
I doubt we will have time to discuss this, but I wanted to make the participants aware of this
Post ICANN77 the ccNSO Council was notified that IANA has been running .lb, Lebanon, for several months now.
This came about as the then current manager, American University Beirut, did not wish to manage it any longer, and apparently there was either no one able to or willing to do it in country.
14:43:59 From Stephen Deerhake To Everyone:
In over a decade of thinking about Revocation and Transfer, it appears that no one, across 4 working groups, thought of the possibility that an incumbent manager would walk away from their responsibility.
Needless to say, having IANA directly operate a ccTLD makes some in the ccTLD world a little uncomfortable.
And given the complete lack of transparency over this event by IANA, I think it is safe to say that the IANA once again has a bit of a trust level with the ccTLD community.
14:44:10 From Stephen Deerhake To Everyone:
Because everything needs a label in ICANN world, the lack of a policy providing guardrails to IANA in the event that they need to step in an assume the operation of a ccTLD, this is being referred to as a “policy gap”.
The upshot is that it is likely further policy development work will be required in this area.
14:44:30 From Heidi Ullrich To Everyone:
ALAC input on the draft Framework on Closed Generics: https://community.icann.org/display/alacpolicydev/At-Large+Workspace%3A+ALAC+Input+on+Closed+Generics+Draft+Framework
14:44:30 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
That is so interesting Stephen
14:45:14 From Caleb Ogundele To Everyone:
Hi George I have to drop of the call to attend to something personal and a bit of emergency. Farz is on the call and happy to speak on my behalf. Thank you
14:45:41 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
I will do my best to cover
14:45:52 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Haha to some extent. Yes it’s just the Nomcom issue
14:46:00 From Stephen Deerhake To Everyone:
And a little frightening Farzaneh, especially for those of us who interacted with the first ICANN Corporate General Council/Secretary back in the day...
14:46:56 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Absolutely! Stephen. They are going against the established processes but what can be done… really interesting
14:47:17 From judith hellerstein To Everyone:
Fascinating Stephen, I wonder whyISOC Lebanon is not interested in this
14:47:18 From Jonathan Zuck To Everyone:
I think you killed it a while back, frankly
14:48:06 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Prof Mueller and I wrote a paper about ccTLD delegation in 2017 https://journals.library.columbia.edu/index.php/stlr/article/view/4023/1781
14:48:31 From Greg Shatan To Everyone:
Reacted to "I think you killed i..." with
14:48:31 From naela sarras To Everyone:
Replying to "Because everything n..."
Kim Davies published the following letter explaining the situation with .LB: https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/davies-to-reynoso-13jul23-en.pdf
14:48:53 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Replying to "Because everything n..."
Ah that’s interesting
14:49:22 From Marita Moll To Everyone:
Hmm, seems odd -- drafting comments in two different communities -- were they aligned?
14:49:24 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Replying to "Because everything n..."
This is so arbitrary the optics look…
14:49:49 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Who drafted two comments?
14:49:57 From Eduardo Diaz To Everyone:
@Marita: Good question.
14:50:43 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Yes you are a delegate. then why are we having so many at large delegates and only one from NCSG NCUC NPOC?
14:51:28 From JOTHAN FRAKES To Everyone:
Replying to "Because everything n..."
It looks like Kim reacted in the lightest touch possible / appropriately as a basic administrative processing of the situation - and he seems to be seeking the ccNSO to provide some new _stuff_ related to how the .lb situation manifested.
14:51:31 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Replying to "Because everything n..."
Caretaker designation!!!
14:51:40 From Stephen Deerhake To Everyone:
Farzaneh, your and Milton's paper resides in my ccNSO Framework of Interpretation Working Group notebook.
14:52:25 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Really?? Wow I am gonna celebrate that! Useful paper
14:53:44 From JOTHAN FRAKES To Everyone:
Replying to "Because everything n..."
In gTLD world there is EBERO - while it may not be a fit, there may be some aspects of it that could be repurposed for situations like what happened with .lb I am candidly shocked that back-end providers were not falling all over themselves to run this
14:54:53 From Stephen Deerhake To Everyone:
Jothan, my beef isn't with what IANA did. I don't think they had a choice given their core responsibilities. It was HOW it was handled. Complete non-transparency, consultation/notification of the ccNSO Council chair and the two vice chairs only, no notification of the Council (this is an internal Council matter), and NO consultation with those of us who have been wrapping our heads around these matters for over a decade by IANA.
14:55:17 From judith hellerstein To Everyone:
Replying to "Hmm, seems odd -- dr…"
HI Marita. I helped draft the comments with Peter from NCUC who worked with me on nomcom
14:55:27 From Stephen Deerhake To Everyone:
The letter was way late imo.
14:56:25 From Stephen Deerhake To Everyone:
Regarding the Nomcom discussion, can I point out that the ccNSO has a SINGLE representative on NomCom? This is not going down with the the ccNSO Community...
14:56:25 From Marita Moll To Everyone:
@Judith -- were you not also instrumental in drafting comments for At Large?
14:56:33 From judith hellerstein To Everyone:
Excellent comments by Farzi
14:56:34 From JOTHAN FRAKES To Everyone:
Replying to "Jothan, my beef isn'..."
Ah, ok, I get it more clearly.
14:56:46 From judith hellerstein To Everyone:
Replying to "@Judith -- were you …"
Yes. I was
14:57:48 From Jonathan Zuck To Everyone:
Oh I thought it was NCUC and NPOC
14:58:41 From Ron da Silva To Everyone:
probably less members of the nomcom would be more efficient vs. expanding.. I mean you could have 7 nomcom members.. 1 from each ASO, GNSO, ccNSO, ALAC, GAC, SSAC, RSAC - let each org fight it out :-D
14:58:58 From Marita Moll To Everyone:
Hmm @ Judith -- didn't know this was way of doing things at ICANN.. There groups are not usuall/always aligned.
14:59:00 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
No we only have one delegate from NCUC…
14:59:05 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
So 1 against 4
14:59:24 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
So is Judith in a leadership role at ALAC?
15:00:07 From Greg Shatan To Everyone:
Judith is the outgoing NARALO delegate to NomCom
15:00:16 From Jonathan Zuck To Everyone:
Judith simply served most recently on the NONCOM, that's all, @Farzi
15:01:07 From Stephen Deerhake To Everyone:
I agree with you Ron --equal representation, but I would suggest two per SO/AC because of the workload.
15:01:34 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
@Stephen, then NCSG and CSG will go into a war
15:02:17 From JOTHAN FRAKES To Everyone:
ready for that show
15:02:48 From Louis Houle To Everyone:
Replying to "I agree with you Ron..."
Right, I second. It’s more work than one make believe!
15:03:06 From Greg Shatan To Everyone:
The SOs and ACs can't be treated as if they are alike. GNSO is really an umbrella organization. As is At Large to some extent, with the 5 RALOs.
15:03:10 From Stephen Deerhake To Everyone:
@Farzaneh, aren't they already always at war?
15:03:27 From Eduardo Diaz To Everyone:
Reacted to "probably less member..." with
15:04:57 From Stephen Deerhake To Everyone:
@Greg, I will be blunt about this. It is something I remind ICANN Org and the Board about on a semi-regular basis:
At the end of the day it is the ccTLDs, via the ccNSO, that give ICANN their international legitimacy. With the ccTLDs, ICANN would simply be a trade association.
15:05:07 From Ron da Silva To Everyone:
..nobody trusts each other so want to make sure they have their own representation I suppose?
15:05:29 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Replying to "@Farzaneh, aren't th..."
Yes
15:05:37 From Stephen Deerhake To Everyone:
There is a reason that the ccTLDs left the DNSO back in the day...
15:05:44 From JOTHAN FRAKES To Everyone:
Replying to "@Greg, I will be blu..."
You mean /without/ right?
15:05:52 From Eduardo Diaz To Everyone:
Well at one point we can have the NomCom doing it own policy development if they get enough members
15:06:03 From Eduardo Diaz To Everyone:
Ja
15:06:04 From Jonathan Zuck To Everyone:
Well, Stephen many would suggest that it's the ALAC, NCSG, GAC that are a significant part of not being a trade association
15:06:07 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Haha yes Eduardo
15:06:49 From JOTHAN FRAKES To Everyone:
I see Stephen's point - from the TLDs side of stuff
15:07:19 From gordon chillco5tt To Everyone:
Jon:
15:07:24 From JOTHAN FRAKES To Everyone:
and then on the AC/SGs that are not contracted, that's another argument alltogether
15:08:16 From Bill Jouris To Everyone:
It already is, effectively, a trade association. With an increasingly threadbare cover of a multistakeholder governance body
15:08:30 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Oh that’s what I said in my blog …
15:09:03 From Greg Shatan To Everyone:
On DNS Abuse, I'll mention that the UK govt opened a consultation on 7/20 regarding DNS Abuse, with an apparent theme of national legislation (!)
15:09:17 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Really?
15:09:32 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Oh the UK. Fountain of ideas bad for the Internet
15:09:48 From judith hellerstein To Everyone:
Yes. OCL just wrote about it in an email
15:10:03 From Stephen Deerhake To Everyone:
@Farzaneh: Apparently. The UK: Where no bad internet idea goes to die ;-)
15:10:20 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Reacted to "@Farzaneh: Apparent..." with
15:11:02 From Greg Shatan To Everyone:
or be undead
15:11:17 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
So I can’t wait for them to hire PWC to build capacity for new gtld in developing countries ...
15:11:31 From JOTHAN FRAKES To Everyone:
#nocomment
15:11:49 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
That would be fun to watch. Why spell checker corrects gtld to gold is beyond me
15:12:07 From Jonathan Zuck To Everyone:
Reacted to "That would be fun to..." with
15:12:08 From JOTHAN FRAKES To Everyone:
haha that was ironically funny
15:12:14 From Greg Shatan To Everyone:
gTLD = gold -- sounds like AI at work
15:12:53 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Is there not a call for consultants to help the applicants?
15:13:03 From Stephen Deerhake To Everyone:
(Things get shack wacky after 60 minutes of Zoom... ;-))
15:13:16 From Greg Shatan To Everyone:
Reacted to "(Things get shack wa..." with
15:13:25 From Jonathan Zuck To Everyone:
There is such a call, @Farzi
15:13:53 From Eduardo Diaz To Everyone:
“Why spell checker corrects gtld to gold is beyond me”. That is a good line for Seinfeld.
15:14:07 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
So … PWC is applying?
15:14:32 From Denise Hochbaum To Everyone:
Reacted to "“Why spell checker c..." with
15:14:53 From Stephen Deerhake To Everyone:
ICANN? Shy??? LOL!
15:15:09 From JOTHAN FRAKES To Everyone:
I have no doubt that firms want work, but firms also need dates certain just like applicants
15:16:38 From Stephen Deerhake To Everyone:
@Greg: I sympathize with the "are you sure we can't get a contract with you" problem...
15:18:52 From judith hellerstein To Everyone:
@Farzaneh Badii many people in the pacific do not have this knowledge govts are just learning
15:19:24 From judith hellerstein To Everyone:
Some do not even manage their own domains or ccTLDs
15:19:43 From naela sarras To Everyone:
This is the link to the pro bono providers for the applicant support program: https://www.icann.org/en/announcements/details/icann-seeks-pro-bono-service-providers-for-applicant-support-program-01-06-2023-en
15:20:07 From judith hellerstein To Everyone:
Spell check wanted to translate cctld as colds
15:21:12 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Thanks Naela
15:22:22 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Replying to "Some do not even man..."
But we need to provide that capacity for the locals by using local expertise. Train them that way,…
15:22:28 From Jonathan Zuck To Everyone:
2005 for me! Sigh.
15:22:49 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Wait Zoe is asking us to let young people in?
15:22:58 From judith hellerstein To Everyone:
Replying to "Some do not even man…"
Yes. Working to educate the people in PNG about it
15:23:08 From David Mackey To Everyone:
@Farzaneh - Agreed, At-Large community has a value of potential global reach, but this must also be balanced with lack of resources. That’s the future work of At-Large capacity building
15:23:22 From Jonathan Zuck To Everyone:
Doh!
15:23:33 From Jonathan Zuck To Everyone:
backpedal, backpedal!
15:23:53 From Ron da Silva To Everyone:
i’m told AARP has an open membership.. so you can join at 17 if you like..
15:23:58 From Bill Jouris To Everyone:
A mere child to some of us!
15:23:59 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
I have been in this for 12 years… I am not young anymore… Zoe should replace us all
15:24:01 From JOTHAN FRAKES To Everyone:
Good call - happy proactive bday. New prices at IHOP Greg
15:24:05 From David Mackey To Everyone:
lol @ Ron
15:24:14 From Pablo Rodriguez - ccNSO Council To Everyone:
65 is the new 40
15:24:26 From JOTHAN FRAKES To Everyone:
at 65, 9 is the new midnight
15:24:28 From Eduardo Diaz To Everyone:
67 is the new 21
15:25:16 From Jonathan Zuck To Everyone:
Thanks everyone! I have to run! Appreciate all the discussions. Let's keep them going.
15:25:21 From Greg Shatan To Everyone:
I have 11 days left. Don't rush me!
15:25:34 From Greg Shatan To Everyone:
Reacted to "I have 11 days left...." with
15:25:42 From JOTHAN FRAKES To Everyone:
agree, great readout
15:26:02 From judith hellerstein To Everyone:
Yes. Great readout
15:26:13 From Zoe Filomeno To Everyone:
Wait Zoe is asking us to let young people in?
My apologies everyone as a mother of an 11 year old Gen Alpha even I’m not as young anymore. I don’t want to replace you all, I want to make sure Gen Z and Alpha have a voice.
15:26:38 From Greg Shatan To Everyone:
Reacted to "Wait Zoe is asking u..." with
15:26:42 From judith hellerstein To Everyone:
Great comment. Zoe. Welcome
15:26:57 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Replying to "Wait Zoe is asking u..."
Absolutely Zoe! I am on your side…. Our average age does not look good but then young people have cooler things to do
15:27:00 From JOTHAN FRAKES To Everyone:
no, please replace us. new ideas and staying relevant is crucial
15:27:11 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Replying to "Wait Zoe is asking u..."
Been a challenge to keep them interested… issues are so narrow
15:27:17 From naela sarras To Everyone:
Agreed thank you Stephen
15:27:25 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
Yes please replace Jothan!
15:27:44 From Farzaneh Badii To Everyone:
I am really interested in this .LB issue. Can we have a cross community meeting about it
15:27:51 From JOTHAN FRAKES To Everyone:
You wish, Farzi lol but aligned w zoe ... I maintain the public suffix list and can't get internet developers to engage ICANN
15:28:03 From Bill Jouris To Everyone:
Replying to "no, please replace u..."
+1
15:30:24 From Marita Moll To Everyone:
Thanks for an interesting and well managed call
15:30:26 From naela sarras To Everyone:
Thank you all and thank you Greg for moderating a great discussion
15:30:28 From kenneth herman To Everyone:
Thanks Greg and all!
15:30:28 From David Mackey To Everyone:
Thanks all, great discussion!
15:30:36 From Eduardo Diaz To Everyone:
Good discussion
15:30:37 From Stephen Deerhake To Everyone:
Bye all! Thank you Greg for the invite!
15:30:54 From Ron da Silva To Everyone:
tchau
15:31:00 From Louis Houle To Everyone:
Bye everyone
15:31:03 From Heidi Ullrich To Everyone:
Thanks, all.
15:31:06 From Denise Hochbaum To Everyone:
Very interesting meeting! Clever comments and many brillant thoughts
AT-LARGE GATEWAY
At-Large Regional Policy Engagement Program (ARPEP)
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