13:58:40 From Silvia Vivanco : Welcome all
13:59:54 From leahsymekher : Hi All..Leah Here
14:00:09 From Maureen Hilyard : HI Leah
14:00:31 From Alfredo Calderon : Saludos a todos. / hello to all.
14:01:44 From David Mackey : Hi All
14:03:18 From Bill Jouris : The zoom link in the email reminder is invalid. But the one in the agenda is OK
14:03:41 From David Mackey : @Bill … I noticed the same thing
14:04:00 From Alfredo Calderon : @Bill, same here with the invalid link.
14:04:25 From Bill Jouris : Maybe staff could do a resend, for those who don't think to go to the agenda
14:06:40 From Heidi Ullrich : We are sending the updated link.
14:06:59 From David Mackey : Can Eduardo or Evan do a song and dance while we wait?
14:07:39 From Adrian Schmidt : The link worked right in the calendar event as well. Thank you staff for your work!
14:07:48 From Silvia Vivanco : That is a paradise Eduardo
14:07:54 From Silvia Vivanco : Very beautiful
14:07:55 From Adrian Schmidt : Okay Eduardo please add a little room for me there at your retirement place :)
14:08:04 From Glenn McKnight : Did you want to mention Marilyn Cade?
14:08:07 From David Mackey : @Eduardo Very nice, but I’d miss building a snowman in winter
14:08:37 From Jothan Frakes : +1 respects to Marilyn Cade
14:08:39 From Glenn McKnight : A IGF Memorial was last week
14:08:40 From Silvia Vivanco : warm welcome to our colleagues, special welcome to Naela Sarras
14:08:52 From Heidi Ullrich : Welcome,, Naela!
14:08:57 From Evan Leibovitch : @David if I started singing the call would empty quickly
14:09:13 From David Mackey : @Evan good point ;-)
14:09:14 From Maureen Hilyard : It was a lovely IGF memorial service for Marilyn
14:09:19 From leahsymekher : We will miss you Marilyn Cade…You were a necessary Force in ICANN..Internet World.
14:09:31 From Jothan Frakes : +1 Leah
14:09:55 From Glenn McKnight : Here is the video we did with Marilyn Cade for VSIG https://youtu.be/gWs2FNarYoQ
14:10:23 From leahsymekher : Judith where can we send messages for Marilyn Cade
14:10:30 From leahsymekher : ?
14:10:47 From Glenn McKnight : Hi Naela, she will be speaker at our next VSIG in December
14:11:38 From Alfredo Calderon : VSIG stands for Virtual School on Internet Governance - https://virtualsig.org
14:12:53 From Alfredo Calderon : Welcome Naela to the Regional ca.
14:13:01 From Silvia Vivanco : thank you Naela
14:13:14 From David Mackey : Thank you Naela. Welcome!
14:13:50 From Eduardo Diaz : I am having problems with my Internet - Sorry!
14:13:58 From Marita Moll : Great avatar Evan
14:15:42 From Naela Sarras : Thanks all. Really looking forward to my work with this community
14:16:27 From David Mackey : Sorry for the dumb question which ICANN AC represents domaines?
14:16:39 From David Mackey : domainers
14:16:50 From Jothan Frakes : For participants who are from the domain investment community here participating in your first NARALO meeting, I encourage you to hear Evan out for his perspective as it is one that is not distinct solely to his perspective, and there's some helpful information within what he is sharing
14:17:20 From Jonathan Zuck : @Dave, they are found mostly in the BC, at this point but they don’t have a specific constituency. Their interests are pretty well aligned with the NCSG as well.
14:17:21 From Joshua Schoen : stop paying your property taxes and you’ll lose your home
14:17:30 From David Mackey : @JZ ty
14:17:48 From Glenn McKnight : The Domain Aftermarket is home to the buying and selling of registered domain names. Its estimated by Domaininvesting that approximate aftermarket sales volume for the domain industry would be in the $250-500 million range annually. "Determining the total value of domain sales for the entire industry would be impossible due to the number of private sales and sales that are subject to NDA". Escow .com reported $1 billion in total transactions Auction sales reports at https://namebio.com/blog/category/daily-market-report/https://domaininvesting.com/what-is-the-annual-domain-industry-sales-volume/
14:19:07 From Glenn McKnight : Professional Organizations Domain Name Associationwww.dna..org Blogs & NewsDN JournalDomain InciteDomain Name WireDomain SherpaHybrid DomainerMorgan Linton’s BlogNamePros BlogNat Cohen’s BlogOnlineDomain.comRick Schwartz’s BlogTheDomains.comTheo Develegas’ BlogConferencesNamesConNameSummitDomain BrokersSee this list of domain brokers
14:19:26 From Glenn McKnight : Domain Sales / MarketplacesAfternicDan.comEftyBuyDomainsNamePros MarketplaceSedo
14:19:49 From leahsymekher : Congratulations Naela Saris..looking forward to working with you. Leah
14:20:07 From Andrew Allemann : LasVegas.com was an unused domain?
14:21:44 From Jonathan Zuck : Marketing, referrals, etc.
14:22:19 From Joshua Schoen : A huge benefit of buying lasvegas.com was shutting out any competition from buying it
14:23:20 From Joshua Schoen : also, i’m sure it had plenty of type-in traffic
14:24:27 From Joshua Schoen : I’m sure in real estate companies will buy unused land to stop any competitors from buying it first
14:24:54 From Joshua Schoen : or from building on it
14:24:59 From Jonathan Zuck : Of course both domainers and scalpers ARE innovative of getting in front of you in line… ;)
14:25:08 From Andrew Allemann : Interesting. I've never heard of domain investing as innovative. I have heard registries refer to premium pricing as innovative.
14:25:52 From Jothan Frakes : well, there is innovation, I suppose, in combining names or inventing terms
14:26:09 From Joshua Schoen : People don’t actually know what squatting means. They misuse the term.
14:26:11 From Joshua Schoen : What Is Cybersquatting?
Cybersquatting is registering, selling or using a domain name with the intent of profiting from the goodwill of someone else's trademark. It generally refers to the practice of buying up domain names that use the names of existing businesses with the intent to sell the names for a profit to those businesses.
14:26:27 From Chad : Homesteaders is the what main person running energy and commerce committee called domain investors..
14:26:28 From jeff : I sold Sex.com the traffic was much higher than 2M visitors a month.
14:26:31 From Ammar Kubba : Almost every logical and desirable piece of physical land is also taken by squatters.
14:26:35 From jeff : Curious to know where he got that info.
14:28:05 From Sven 90210 : The ticket sales analogy might be a bit far-fetched - after all, there is a limited number of tickets available to an event, but there is an almost unlimited number of domains (combinations of letters) that could be registered as a new domain name. And as we know from Evan’s sex.com example, it does not have to be the most generic domain to have a successful business.
14:29:24 From Joshua Schoen : Hyphens are great! Nobody will ever forget to add them when typing in your domain or sending you an email.
14:29:35 From Ammar Kubba : +1 Josh
14:29:44 From Ammar Kubba : I love hyphens
14:29:48 From Joshua Schoen : Oh they’re the best
14:29:49 From Joshua Schoen : so good
14:30:26 From Jason Sheppard : If, as in your sex.com vs pornhub.com example, it’s the content that matters, then why is not getting the most desirable domain even an issue?
14:30:38 From Joshua Schoen : How bout if FB shuts down your page lol
14:30:42 From Joshua Schoen : you’re screwed
14:30:43 From Ammar Kubba : s-e-x.com
14:30:44 From Greg Shatan : Hello, all, sorry to be late.
14:30:54 From jeff : I like the double hyphen
14:31:02 From Joshua Schoen : triple is really the way to go
14:31:02 From jeff : S—e—x
14:31:07 From David Mackey : Metaphors are often used when describing technology because technology is hard to understand. The generic question I have is whether a domain asset has the same real life attributes as a ticket or as a piece of real estate. I don’t know. Just pondering the question.
14:33:31 From Joshua Schoen : If domains aren’t important why is domaining such a problem for end users?
14:34:46 From Jothan Frakes : Harm seems evocative as a word here; If housing downtown next door to my office has no occupancy, am I harmed if I have to commute?
14:35:03 From David Mackey : consumer choice maybe?
14:35:21 From Jothan Frakes : and does raising the rent in that apartment really helping
14:36:05 From Ammar Kubba : .horse is up and coming
14:36:13 From Joshua Schoen : lol
14:36:17 From Jothan Frakes : of course, of course
14:36:30 From Joshua Schoen : this is the worst advice i’ve ever heard
14:36:33 From Joshua Schoen : sorry, i had to say it
14:36:51 From David Mackey : @Ammar Horse is in the gate? :-)
14:37:00 From Ammar Kubba : :-)
14:37:11 From Jason Sheppard : By all means, buy the ccTLDs and new gTLDs. It makes the .com more valuable when you later realize you need it to succeed.
14:37:13 From Joshua Schoen : wouldn’t it be great if all unused land in the world still cost only $50 per plot?
14:37:18 From Ammar Kubba : ammar-kubba.horse
14:37:31 From Ammar Kubba : And I will pay Google for adwords
14:37:37 From Jonathan Zuck : @Dave. It’s really more like rent controlled property because it’s rented and domainers are subletting for a higher price.
14:37:40 From Brian Gilbert : wow
14:38:09 From jeff : I also think that he does not take into consideration that domaines pay more than 8 dollars for a domain themselves.
14:38:13 From David Mackey : @jz ty again :-)
14:38:14 From Steven : so... pay Google's increasing SEO ransom forever and ever into the future, or make a one time purchase of a memorable .com?
14:38:22 From Jason Sheppard : Land in Montana is $2066/acre so naturally, I can get an acre for that price in NYC, right?
14:38:36 From Joshua Schoen : oh absolutely Jason
14:38:44 From Jothan Frakes : I think you threw some good red meat into the cage, @evan - there will be an interesting set of responses :)
14:39:15 From Joshua Schoen : did he though?
14:39:22 From Joshua Schoen : i don’t think he took any time at all
14:39:30 From John More : Fully agree. I have used your suggested solutions myself in creating domains for organizatioons.
14:40:29 From Ammar Kubba : You mean a registrar?
14:40:38 From Ammar Kubba : Now that’s innovation!
14:41:14 From jeff : I want to live on Rodeo Drive
14:41:37 From Ammar Kubba : Don’t you mean rodeo-drive?
14:41:44 From jeff : Ha!
14:42:06 From Joshua Schoen : Evan: if you want to open up a store in NYC there’s truly no benefit to being on Broadway. You’ll be just find getting a cheap location in a back alley.
14:42:13 From Joshua Schoen : fine*
14:42:49 From Greg Shatan : The real estate analogy is fun to play with, but not as apt as some might think.
14:42:55 From Chad : most successful investor incubator in history creating billions in value… “If you have a US startup called X and you don’t have x.com, you should probably change your name.”.. so ya you might have to get creative and go elsewhere.. … i thought the industry/market was way past this really dull topic..
14:42:56 From Jothan Frakes : in canal-street
14:43:00 From Keith DeBoer : Good presentation, Evan
14:43:07 From David Mackey : @Greg I was wondering the same thing
14:43:44 From Keith DeBoer : Domain investors need to hear from people outside of their own industry
14:43:49 From Greg Shatan : Foot traffic and web traffic don’t follow the same rules. And not every retailer needs foot traffic. And not all foot traffic is equal.
14:43:59 From Jothan Frakes : +1 kieth well said
14:44:08 From Joshua Schoen : this is true Keith
14:44:35 From Greg Shatan : “Hearing” is harder than one might think.
14:44:58 From Joshua Schoen : yep, cause you don’t use your domain in advertising, on billboards, for your email etc
14:45:06 From Joshua Schoen : they’re only good for search
14:45:50 From Greg Shatan : If it’s your email, that’s good enough for email, and your identity doesn’t
14:46:11 From Greg Shatan : have to be identical to your domain name, for advertising and billboards.
14:46:23 From Jothan Frakes : What evan just described in the combination of the search and URL box is referred to as the 'omnibox'. I am part of the core team of volunteers that helps maintain a resource called the "Public Suffix List" which feeds into the determination that browsers use in logically directing traffic to search or DNS
14:46:50 From Nikul Sanghvi : I’d be interested in hearing Evan’s thoughts on how he would propose allocation for domains? For example, thousands of businesses called ‘Wave’ - who should get to own Wave.com?
14:47:42 From Greg Shatan : Imagine if every business named themselves after their physical address.... A domain is an address first and foremost.
14:48:33 From Joshua Schoen : I’m curious to hear what Evan thinks about the big portfolio holders that focus on sell-thru rate and are running a legitimate very profitable business all while providing end users with the opportunity to buy the domain they want.
14:49:29 From Jason Sheppard : A domain is a name. 208.109.192.70 is an address.
14:50:11 From Jothan Frakes : so is 2607:f8b0:4004:807::200e
14:50:23 From Bill Jouris : But human beings are far better at remembering names than strings of numbers
14:50:32 From Greg Shatan : A domain name is for all practical purposes an address. 208 etc. is an IP address.
14:50:41 From Jothan Frakes : yes... 'speed dial'
14:50:48 From Andrew Allemann : Over 150 million .com domains registered
14:51:07 From David Mackey : of course some addresses have human meaning too, but this is an exception … 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington DC, USA.
14:52:00 From Jothan Frakes : I was enjoying Sebastians beard
14:52:43 From Greg Shatan : Andrew, how many resolve to a live site?
14:53:40 From Chad : raising the prices so new end users, might be able to get the name they want, created by a supply from homesteaders dropping them due to price is a horrible analysis of cause/effect.. no data, not consistent with past examples..
14:54:02 From Bill Jouris : Maybe wave.city-name.com ?
14:54:02 From Josh : Domain Investors aren't stopping innovation. It's the complete opposite. The people most willing to sell their domain names to fellow entrepreneurs are domain investors that are motivated to repurpose domains for use in commerce. If you take the domain investors out of the equation then quality domain names will continue to be registered and owned by parties less willing or less motivated to repurpose the domain names for innovation.
14:54:20 From Joshua Schoen : +1
14:54:32 From Andrew Allemann : @greg shatan I'm not sure, a low number. Was just clarifying when the speaker said 120M.
14:54:36 From Joshua Schoen : Should land owners be forced to use the land they own?
14:54:50 From Andrew Allemann : The problem with "use it or lose it" is "what constitutes use"?
14:54:54 From Josh : Are Microsoft, Apple, Disney, etc all required to relinquish the thousands of valuable domain names that they don't use?
14:55:02 From Kip Maron : Trademarks expire, are bought/ traded too. I don't get that.
14:55:02 From Greg Shatan : There you go again with that land analogy.
14:55:13 From Joshua Schoen : what’s the difference Greg?
14:55:16 From Joshua Schoen : let’s hear it
14:55:27 From Greg Shatan : Just about everything.
14:55:32 From Joshua Schoen : ok tell us
14:55:37 From Joshua Schoen : i’m curious
14:55:38 From John More : Domain investors, in my view, are unnecessary and just create unneeded friction and costs.
14:55:40 From Jothan Frakes : subscription
14:55:46 From Greg Shatan : Tell me what’s the same.
14:56:19 From Josh : There's no difference.
14:56:37 From Joshua Schoen : Bingo
14:57:00 From Greg Shatan : I think a better analogy is street parking outside Fenway Park, where guys put out folding chairs and charge you $20 to move the chair away.
14:57:11 From Josh : Are Microsoft, Apple, Disney, etc all required to relinquish the thousands of valuable domain names that they don't use?
14:57:33 From Greg Shatan : How do you get BINGO without any letters being called out?
14:57:45 From Bill Jouris : Greg, should we believe that this constitutes parking innovation at Fenway? ;-)
14:58:03 From David Mackey : Analogies are a good starting point to understand technology, but a discussion around describing asset attributes might be more useful
14:58:21 From Joshua Schoen : Should all parking spots at Fenway be free even though there’s a high demand for them?
14:58:21 From Zak Muscovitch : Many thanks, Evan! Thanks Eduardo!
14:58:22 From Greg Shatan : Well, it’s more positive than protection rackets, Bill. Nice car you got there....
14:58:25 From Silvia Vivanco : Thank you for this presentation Evan
14:58:33 From Silvia Vivanco : And to all participants for attending
14:58:37 From Marita Moll : Yes, thanks Evan. Good thinking points
14:58:38 From David Mackey : Thanks Evan and everyone for the interesting discussion. :-)
14:58:44 From Jothan Frakes : subscription or real estate are the best analogs that I hear for domains
14:58:44 From Silvia Vivanco : and active participation
14:58:45 From Keith DeBoer : Thanks, Evan and Eduardo
14:58:46 From Bachollet Sebastien - Euralo : thanks Evan
14:58:50 From Bill Jouris : @Greg, on the other hand, nice chair you got there....
14:58:57 From Sven 90210 : Proof of use of an assigned trademark is not really required in many jurisdictions outside of North America.
14:59:04 From Maureen Hilyard : Great session Evan and participants. thank you Eduardo for putting this session together
14:59:04 From Jothan Frakes : Evan thank you for the presentation and perspective...
14:59:12 From Glenn McKnight : thanks
14:59:13 From Greg Shatan : Joshua, it’s public parking. The guy with the chair is just getting in the way.
14:59:13 From Glenn McKnight : bye
14:59:16 From Joshua Schoen : Yes thank you Evan
14:59:16 From Heidi Ullrich : Thanks, All.
14:59:18 From Jothan Frakes : thank you to all the domain investors who joined
14:59:19 From Adrian Schmidt : bye!
14:59:19 From Alfredo Calderon : Thank you .
14:59:21 From leahsymekher : Great presentation Evan..always great to hear your views.
14:59:24 From Adrian Schmidt : Great presentation
14:59:28 From Jothan Frakes : thanks all
14:59:47 From Joshua Schoen : thanks
AT-LARGE GATEWAY
At-Large Regional Policy Engagement Program (ARPEP)
At-Large Review Implementation Plan Development
