Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Okay it looks like there is nobody else going to join us so I suggest that we start now.  Right good morning, good afternoon and good evening this is the Work Team C call special timing in fact which is going to be - At-Large Working Team C call on the 19th of January, 2011.  It is a joint call with the Finance and Budget Committee of ALAC, is that how it's called Cheryl?

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Yes, correct.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          It is okay fantastic.  And first we will start with a quick roll call and then we will move pretty quickly because we have quite a lot of things to cover today.  So if I could ask, would it be Marilyn who would do the roll call please?

Marilyn Vernon:                     Hi, sure, okay on the call we have Cheryl Langdon-Orr, Dave Kissoondoyal, Dev Anand Teelucksingh, Gareth Sherman, Olivier, Tijani, and from the ICANN Staff we have Heidi Ulrich, Marilyn Vernon and Seth Greene.  Did I miss anyone?

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          And hearing no other voices, I believe you have not missed anyone Marilyn thank you very much.

Marilyn Vernon:                     Perfect.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          So we will move quickly over to the items for discussion and today is the subject of the ALAC and regional contributions to the Financial Year ’12 Budget.  Previous Work Team C calls have been dealing specifically with the strategic side of things with the SWOTs and so on.  And today we are not going to deal with SWOTs we are going to deal specifically with the Financial Year Budget. 

And we have new information since there is a new process this year and so Cheryl I believe is first going to speak to us about the background and what's happened in the past in the FY’12 Budget and afterwards Heidi will be able to explain to us how things are going to happen this year.  So I think I will ask Cheryl to start on her presentation.  Are there any comments or questions prior to that, Tijani my Co-Chair do you have?

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    No, nothing to add only to say the Subcommittee on Budget and Finance of ALAC is out of this Working Group so they are part of the working group.  They have [inaudible00:03:00].

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Okay, thank you Tijani and Cheryl it's your go now thank you.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Thank you very much Olivier.  Very briefly because one of the things I would recommend we do for the archival record is take the transcript and/or MP3 from the presentation on the FY’12 Budget from the Cartagena meeting and link it to the Work Team C workspace.  There were presentations which I'm sure Heidi will elude to the high points that were made by our acting wrangler of all things financial, Chief Operations Officer is also currently managing the Chief Financial Officer role as well. 

Kevin also presented there.  But what I'd like to do is just, for the record bring ourselves up to speed on what has happened before.  What has happened before is we have made a call to the regions in the appropriate space and time in previous budget and strategic planning cycles for input from the regions and ALSs on the particular areas of interest that they have on the draft budget documentation. 

The highpoints which nobody will be surprised at that have come up ad nauseum each year have been since we managed to get the At-Large [inaudible00:04:52] that was the first one we used to be bashing on the door to get.  Once we got the At-Large Summit then the facilitation funding of a general assembly to be held within regions when key meeting, usually ICANN meetings but not necessarily ICANN meetings are being held in their area was what we worked to and I think most of us have bitter memories from last year’s financial year transactions with Staff of ICANN’s  in the financial area because of what we had put in in our public comments.

And it came in from all the regions and therefore became part of the ALAC contribution was the [inaudible00:05:43] to have general assembly facilitations in a cycle that allowed for at least one to happen every three years.  So far one has happened for each region in running in a three year rotational roster.  The only budget through support we got [inaudible00:06:05] for Staff facilitation not for the travel funding or anything else that that the regions themselves were asking for.  EURALO, AFRALO and AP RALO in the past have also asked for specific funding support for specific projects. 

We've all swallowed the bitter pills on those frequently enough.  And the good news is that it would appear that with the new design which Heidi is going to take us through with the template, the request template and other processes that we have some foundational information at least that indicates that such requests will be better managed in the future.  So in the past we've thrown our “Please sir we’d like some more bean” ball into the ring.  It's really being filled, it's usually being stomped on and hopefully this is going to change. 

One of the challenges however we should not let go of in lieu of all this good news and light at the end of the tunnel we see and the new CLOs the design and control is the fact that we have consistently asked for and are gradually receiving more information on budget breakdowns.  We do, however, still need for our understanding and by our, I mean the Finance and Budget Subcommittee included within Work Team C far more detail. 

I noted Olivier asked in an email to Heidi where the previous ALAC budgets might be published?  I can answer that Olivier they're not.  They don’t exist.  I doubt that Heidi would even be able to have access to that information.  The closest we get to breakdown of costing is in the now shared documentation that we get in the budget reports.  We and other parts of ICANN have called for more detailed on that.  And in previous interaction we've needed clarification as to whether or not cost of, for example, translations are coming specifically out of our ICANN At-Large Budget or just the ICANN ICANN Budget. 

And that is often information that is not easily sought.  And I would assume and Heidi possibly has more information here that would be the new directions that the CLO is taking us now, that is also something that may change.  And that’s it for me.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Thank you very much Cheryl.  Are there any questions for Cheryl at this moment?  Any comments from anyone - no.  Right Cheryl I have one question and you may wish or not wish to answer it but are we effectively dealing then with a black box in which we are sending our wishes and not really knowing what we get out?

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              To date, that is absolutely correct.  And in fact, I would describe it as a black hole.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          A black hole, would you say that this is likely to change this year?

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              I believe that there are good indications that change will be in a more not just transparent direction which we have seen over the last couple of years.  But also in a more interactive direction and that’s certainly what ALAC and At-Large has been asking for.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Okay, well thank you very much and I think probably someone who does know about what's coming up is Heidi.  And I think I should now ask her to provide us with the descriptions and examples of what the improvements are for this cycle, Heidi?

Heidi Ulrich:                           Okay thank you Olivier.  For my brief discussion if everyone could go on to the At-Large Fiscal Year ’12 Budget Development Workspace, that is linked to the agenda item that we are on currently.  And I will just give you a few minutes to do that.  Now this was - this contains a lot of information and I think after having advice or input from Olivier and Cheryl, that it is quite comprehensive and it really does offer information on the new process as well as previous information that will contribute to a strong ALAC contribution to the Fiscal Year ’12. 

Today I would like to talk a little bit about three points about what is new this year.  the first one is that it's an earlier process, it's much earlier actually because the discussions started already I would say in November rather than I think, usually in the past it would be sometime early or even spring of that particular year so it didn’t offer much time.  And the submissions from each of the ACs and SOs are due now on the 31st of January.  And in the past that would begin much later.  I know last year Cheryl and I worked on the ALAC submission, I think it was April or May.  So you can see that it's much, much earlier. 

Now in addition to it being earlier, because of the new Staff we have Akram Atalla who is the COO as well as Juan Ojeda who is the Controller.  They came on and wanted to ensure that the process was much more clear to everyone.  So they had conference calls with this group as well as two meetings, I believe in Cartagena where they were very open about what the process was, what the new issues are going to be.  They also highlighted the current support services that At-Large receives.  Now again, that contains information such as teleconferences, language services, meeting support, staff support. 

So again, those are not within the policy development budget, those are actually in those different departments.  So in addition to it being earlier, it's also more transparent.  So what's going to happen is once all the templates are submitted on the 31st of January then they're going to summarize them and they're going to put them out for public consultation sometime next month. 

So I don’t know whether that’s happened in the past?  Cheryl perhaps you can add on that but I don’t believe that the actual requests were put out for public comment.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              No they have not, they’ve never been done.  It was always you threw it in, people went behind closed doors, the take was divvied up, then the announcement came out as a final report.  And that went through a public comment which usually resulted in the various Chairs and committees of the ACs and SOs saying please explain more details on the following.  But there was no following up or closing of any loop.

Heidi Ulrich:                           Yeah that’s my memory as well.  so then once this is out for public comment, then depending on the results all of those requests are going to be put into the budget framework and this goes into the regular schedule again.  That budget framework will be published in May; I think it's the 17th of May.  It's out for public comment.  The initial framework will be discussed in San Francisco.  So all of you will have some ability to discuss this with Akram and with Juan in San Francisco. 

And then once the framework has gone out for public consultations and then comments incorporated, then it will go the - the final operational budget will be submitted to the Board and hopefully adopted at the June meeting in Amman.  And again, that’s the first issue, it's earlier.  The process is earlier and it's more transparent.  Okay the second point if you move down and a very key issue here is the fiscal year budget template.  And that’s what everyone, all ACs and SOs will need to complete.  And the template is on that workspace. 

And if you open that you will see that again, some of the elements that need to be completed for all submissions includes staff support, technical support, language services, telecomm support and then ICANN meetings and other meetings.  So Tijani I believe for example your request last year to go to the IFG to have a panel there, that would fall under other meetings.  If you wanted to have an extra day for example, at an ICANN meeting, perhaps meet on Saturday, for example a capacity building, to start a capacity building course, that would come under ICANN meetings. 

If you wanted to have more language services, for example, there has been a request for Arabic and perhaps Chinese interpretation, that would go under language services.  So again, that template is the key, really the new element this year that needs to be completed.  So you will also see that in the right hand column, the budget elements of that will be completed by Staff.   

So that’s something that we don’t need to estimate this year.  The only thing we need to estimate is actually what these activities mean, okay, how many staff support would that entail?  How many people would like to go, would you like to involve in a particular activity?  So those are some of the things that you need to think about when completing these templates. 

So finally the third element, the third new key part of the budget process this year is that it has to link, it has to show impact on the strategic plan.  So now that we've a lot of work just recently in completing the ALAC statement on that with very good RALO input I think that will really facilitate the completion of these templates.  Because you do need to show that, I would think that it's probably going to show up in the Column 4 under the Internet Ecosystem.  But that’s something for you to decide. 

And secondly, the last element on this even though it doesn’t specifically say it in the template, I've heard from David and others that they would like to see for At-Large and the GNSO they would like to see what the activity being requested, how that advances or impacts positively, the policy development process.  So if we could show that I think it would strengthen the various templates as well.  So I think from my end that’s what I have to say.  So are there any questions?

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          I see Tijani has put his hand up, Tijani?

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    Yes thank you, thank you Heidi.  I tried to fill in the template and I have some questions.  For example, the area dedicated to the design for the description is very small so how can you just click and describe something with a small box?  I have other questions.

Heidi Ulrich:                           Okay so I -

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    Yes -

Heidi Ulrich:                           I can't hear you very well Tijani but what I think you're saying is that you're having difficulty actually filling in the information in the template itself?

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    That’s right.

Heidi Ulrich:                           Yeah I can actually see - I'm just trying to put some information in there as well.  Let me go back to Juan but I would think that you could just actually add maybe separate pages on that.  But let me see if I can get him right now.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Can I make a suggestion?

Heidi Ulrich:                           Yes.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Heidi one thing I would - going back to [inaudible00:18:50] I would say that what our community needs to do seeing as we are Confluence Wiki users, is develop our text in our community workspaces, our Confluence Wiki spaces and we insert into the template the hyperlink to the appropriate workspace. That saves duplication as effort. 

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    [Inaudible00:19:19] Heidi?

Heidi Ulrich:                           Yeah I think that’s a good suggestion.

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    Yeah.

Heidi Ulrich:                           Let me just see if I can get Juan to respond.  

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          I was going to actually suggest something else because I understand that this template is to be used for any type of project that At-Large structures and RALOs would be proposing.  And so one thing which I do find confusing for some people is that this is designed in a very Western way and with Western logic but some regions of the world think slightly differently than this and I wondered whether it would be helpful to have at least a couple of examples of templates that are already filled so that one knows whether when in the description one needs to have a 100 word essay or whether you just put three words in there, whether your unit quantity is in the measure of 1 or 1,000 or 1 million and the frequency is unknown because for some people - for some languages frequency means something completely different. 

And the other field is really great because you don’t even know what you can put in there.  I guess you can put anything you want.  And then comments, yes we really want it.  I don’t know, an example of how to fill this. 

Heidi Ulrich:                           Yes that’s a good point.

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    But Olivier for the description I can put three words, it's enough for me but I'm not sure what they will understand what I want.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Well this is it.

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    And I am not sure they will accept my request because didn’t understand what I want.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          This is why and example on how much needs to be put in there would be really helpful.

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    Yes and I think that our interest is to give the maximum amount of information so that our request is not rejected.  The best is to inform the maximum.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          So Cheryl suggesting on having a link in there is possibly interesting as well.

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    Yep.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              If I may Olivier, what we need to recognize too is this template that we’re looking at and I do understand the need of it, it's specifically to make the budgeting and budget allocation process easier.  So it is a synthesis, a synopsis document.  People who are trying to pitch their concept as I think is what Tijani is getting at, simply do not have the place and space in this or even have an ability to understand where they should put the rationale for what they're doing.  That’s really support documentation. 

This needs to be worked on and in practice it looks fine.  In principle it looks fine.  In practice we need to play with it.  And so some sample templates would be very, very useful.  And it may be that in San Francisco we might need to go through a hypothetical exercise with a real template, let's say support for a general assembly for a region in an upcoming ICANN meeting and go through with the COO and his staff and say okay so here is what we put in, here is what we thought you wanted, whether we get this right or wrong and how can we make it actually meet your needs as well as be more understandable for our community.

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    And so that I can make use of the additional notes space but it will be for what?  For the description of the event or for the description for the support, the description of the technical support, any other description, so it would be too long.  We telling you that perhaps it's not right, it doesn’t fit completely but I tried - I only tried to see what are the problems only.  So I [inaudible00:23:59] you can make use of the additional notes on something and I will do if I manage to put all the information I have to put, it's okay.  But if I don’t manage it will be a problem.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          So Tijani what I suggest is asking a question from Heidi and asking whether when proposing a project is this template the only document that needs to be there or is it the template is actually part of a set of documents that need to be given?

Heidi Ulrich:                           My understanding is that it's the only document but I can again ask Juan about that.  Olivier while I have the floor can I just respond to what he's saying as well?

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Please yes.

Heidi Ulrich:                           He is also saying that there is no minimum regarding the text.  He is still looking into whether there is an example of a completed one.  And he says that yes putting it on Confluence might work but he wasn’t aware that there was a limitation to the amount of text that could actually be put directly into the template.  So he is going to look into that as well.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          By he, who are we speaking about?

Heidi Ulrich:                           Juan, sorry Juan.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Juan, okay, alright then there was a lot of he but no names, so.

Heidi Ulrich:                           Juan.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Okay thank you.  alright that would be helpful and certainly something which I  think we are all waiting an answer for because as it stands at the moment, a template such as those and this is just a personal feeling, but templates such as those are great when one has order a bunch of pens and pencils and some writing paper.  But describing a project and making a proposal just can't work on a template like that without additional paperwork which comes along with it. 

I understand for the finance side of things, great.  But one has to understand a little bit more deeply why some of these description and what some of these descriptions mean in these boxes and why they're required.  I would imagine that probably brings more chance of getting something.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Olivier if I may, of course you're looking at the needs of the bean counter versus the needs of the farmer selling the crop.  It's a lot different.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Yeah.  We have Dave - or Tijani your hand is still up?

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    I didn’t finish.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Oh you didn’t finish, okay sorry Tijani, back to you, Tijani.

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    What I remember from Cartagena I think Akram or gentleman said with this template you can put another sheet on which you can put additional information.  So I think that a template with another sheet can work also.  I am sure if I am not mistaken Heidi.

Heidi Ulrich:                           Sorry Tijani could you repeat that please?

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    I remember that Akram said that together with this template we can add another sheet to put additional information.

Heidi Ulrich:                           Yes that’s correct and Juan has just confirmed that.  He says absolutely you can add more information, more documentation if you would like to.  He says that the template is not intended to be rigid and if you do need more space you can write it below the template.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Okay.

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    Okay thank you very good, okay.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Okay well thank you Heidi it really is helpful to have those answers that quickly, great.  And Tijani -

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    The last thing -

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Yes I was going to ask any more questions from you?

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    I am sorry, the last thing.  There is the technical support, there is language service, but where do you put the venue for if you need room for a meeting?  Where do you put it?

Heidi Ulrich:                           Tijani are you speaking about an ICANN meeting or are you talking?

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    An ICANN meeting.

Heidi Ulrich:                           An ICANN meeting, then let me just take a look.  I just need to find - I'll get back to you in just a moment.

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    Okay.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Tijani, if I may, trying to think as a bean counter, not that I because I am one because I have dealt with the beast for so long, I would suggest under ICANN meeting, because that is the subset of the ICANN staff that would be involved in room allocation that in the description next to the column ICANN meetings you would put in one room, 45 people, U-shaped set up. 

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    Okay.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              That’s what I would be assuming but Heidi would need to confirm that.

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    Okay in this box we have to put which ICANN meeting?

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              This is where the sample is so important from what Olivier was suggesting.  I read that that is where the request to specifically ICANN meeting, then meetings rooms it would be because the if it's meeting #40 or #59, you’ve already said what that’s going to be up in the activity.  It would be AFRALO meeting in ICANN meeting 30 or 45 or 52.  So it's still way too open for interpretation as Olivier was saying. 

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          If I may say on my side from experience in the business world and having made proposals and so on I would imagine that this is really the helicopter view, top level sheet and then underneath that one would then have a document that would also look into details for each one of these headings and details under ICANN meetings what makes the numbers which are on this template.  Whilst at the same time also have another sheet of paper describing what the intent is and making the proposal. 

I think they are probably trying to reduce the amount of paperwork but at the same time have a standard top level paper that is easier to choose from.  I can imagine that the figures which aren’t here would then end up on another worksheet with all of the projects next to each other and probably some kind of clever adding, subtracting and finding out how this all works together and whether it's worth for ICANN to fund or not.  And that’s the way that I imagine it to be from seeing previous bean counters deal with those types of processes. 

Heidi Ulrich:                           Olivier may I just add a little bit more from what Juan is saying?

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Please yes.

Heidi Ulrich:                           He is actually saying that he likes the idea of an example template and that I can work with him on sending some of the questions that you're asking during this call and then he will create a template that will answer some of those questions.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Fantastic super thank you very much Heidi.

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    And Heidi we need one place for activity that’s [inaudible00:31:40]?

Heidi Ulrich:                           Yes that’s correct.

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    Okay very good. 

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Right, Tijani have you finished with your questions or you have more.

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    Yes, yes, thank you very much.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Okay thanks Tijani and now we have very patient person Dev.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Oh no problem thanks Chair, all very good questions before.  I just want to find out what's like the range, the time of - the timeframe for these activities.  I mean given that the budget will be approved roughly sometime I guess before Amman in June, is it that the activities that we can propose to get funding for is from like July 2011 to the end of 2012?  Or is it - I guess that’s my question.  can we propose an activity that will take place, that will go on to 2013 I guess is what I mean?

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              No.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       It has to be completely within that.  Okay that’s fine, that was my key question.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Now this was actually one of the discussions which we had in Cartagena and there was a possibility for a provision for an activity spanning more than one year.  And for this to be planned for more than one year but I suppose having not had any additional feedback on this, this is one question that we should be asking from Juan. 

And having a confirmation that there is a possibility in the future to have activities spanning more than one year or being financed among more than one year, but for the time being we are not sure.  Feasible I can see Cheryl on the chat saying at this stage we need to work on that.  For the future it is feasible but as yet, not in their planning ability.  So that’s the answer for the time being.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Alright.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Currently ICANN does not allow for multiyear allocations.  But that may change soon.  Cheryl you might want to speak, but -

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              No I'm exercising self control to the best of my ability.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Okay any other questions?  Dev you have other questions or?

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Oh no, no other questions right now.

Heidi Ulrich:                           Okay, Olivier?

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Yes Heidi?

Heidi Ulrich:                           Could I respond to Dev -

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Please Heidi.

Heidi Ulrich:                           Okay Juan is saying that yes because you noted Akram did address that in Cartagena and yes that is possible and that the way that it would be done would be requested is through that same template and then once that request is submitted then finance would - let's see it would be through a system of accruals.  They would create a system of accrual or something to that effect that would allow for a multiyear budget.  So again, I think the response would be to request that in a template and then they will take of the budget aspects of that, the multiyear budget aspects of that.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          By -

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Postdated events Heidi?

Heidi Ulrich:                           I'm sorry Cheryl?

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              When they were speaking in Cartagena they were very clear that that would be for postdated events.  In other words you would build up kitty for a future At-Large summit.

Heidi Ulrich:                           Yeah.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              I think there's a very big difference between something that runs multiyear and something that’s planning in 2015.

Heidi Ulrich:                           Okay.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          So we will have to find the difference between that as far as Juan’s answer is concerned.  But certainly does this mean that each year we have resubmit a template asking for the same thing so as to be able to build cash for it?  Or does this mean you submit it once and then it gets put in the system?

Heidi Ulrich:                           Okay let me see if I can get an answer on that.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Oh okay right, any other questions please?  None for the time being.  I have one but I'm a bit concerned that Heidi is on one side probably typing away with Juan and on the other side having to listen to our questions. 

Heidi Ulrich:                           Yes, apologies I asked him whether he could join the call but he's on an Executive Committee call at the moment and actually our internal kickoff for the fiscal year budget is tomorrow.  So that’s why but he's being very responsive on instant messaging.  So just bear with me.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Okay I have one question then for you and for everyone, maybe someone else knows but obviously the templates that we have here are for a specific project that At-Large wishes to pursue and go ahead with.  What about the usual day to day running budget which is I understand not something that we can put on templates.  Things for example, as saying well we need an increase in the amount of translations that get done, the amount of documents that need to be translated, et cetera.  That certainly is not something that we are going to request through a template is it?

Heidi Ulrich:                           I would think not, no but I will ask him as well. 

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Now how is this being taken care of?  Is it then the job of this working team to make those demands through the comments on the budget rather than submitting templates?

Heidi Ulrich:                           Okay I'm asking him these questions as well.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Okay, right so I think we've got 15 minutes to go perhaps we should move and get our own things in order and to see where we move from here.  The first thing that we need to do obviously to get our regions or our RALOs to bring the input into the system and so the first thing which I was going to suggest was that we have an email that is sent over to the regions for the regions to have a good look at the page which Seth has actually put there.  Tijani you have a question?

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    Yes, it's [inaudible00:38:47] the question, yes you are liking [inaudible00:38:55] to the RALOs and I propose that the RALOs give their inputs before or at 25 January so that we will be able from 25 to 30 to draft the ALAC budget.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Thank you Tijani, does anyone have any comment to make about this?  Does anyone object to this?  Okay.

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    Then before our meeting of ALAC on 25 also.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Okay that sounds like something I can see a yes from Cheryl.  I'm not sure if Dev, Dave, Gareth how do you feel about this.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Yep.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          I see checks all around so that’s one thing.  Gareth has got a comment.  Gareth you might be muted.  We cannot hear you Gareth.

Gareth Sherman:                     Sorry about that I was muted.  Yes I agree and I just wanted to make sure that we’re all headed in the same direction here.  I take it that there is going to be an email going out now to the members of this committee and my understanding is that we are now going to be requesting from our regions and our RALOs input into the budget and then that we will then be submitting that so this template can be completed as an overall response for the ALAC, am I correct in this?

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Thank you Gareth, it's not quite my understanding.  It's not one template that will be filled, I guess it's probably a number of templates hat will we filled so we also need to fill the comments that we are going to file.  Tijani you’ve raised your hand?

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    Yes it's only to say that the templates are one template per activity.  So any activity, it can be ALS activity, it can be RALO activity, it can be an ALAC activity, it needs a template.  So we cannot have an overall template for all.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              That’s right.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          That’s right and Cheryl has commented that we will have a cluster of templates that will be sent at the end.  And in fact, some of the templates I hope we will be able to cut and paste directly from the regions for specific regional projects.  So two things that we need to do really is to have the templates on one side from the regions but also the comments from the region since we are commenting about the plan. 

And when we go to the regions we need to make sure that they understand clearly the what Heidi has told us there which is that any of the projects really need to work in line with the ICANN strategic plan.  It really needs to work with that.  It has a much higher chance of succeeding if that’s the case.  If it isn’t doing that we've been told very explicitly that our projects are very unlikely to move forward. 

So if we manage to explain with the template and the explanation underneath how this fits with the strategic plan and we say that to the regions then there will be a much higher chance of getting something.  Okay so I just wanted to then find out how we’re going to proceed with this, whether it's Heidi or Seth who will send this to the regions or whether we have to deal with the regions directly and we send it to our own regions.  Heidi would you like to?

Heidi Ulrich:                           Yes, yes I'm happy to bear the message to the RALOs obviously including the templates and the link to the Fiscal Year workspace, noting the deadline and also noting the new aspects of it that firstly it needs to link to the strategic plan.  And secondly that it also needs to show some progress in policy development. 

I would also suggest that if possible we would make the deadline for the RALOs to respond on the 24th of January at 23:59 so that would allow staff to summarize or bring all of these requests together and put them on the Wiki for the ALAC to review during their meeting which is first thing my day on the 25th.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              No.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          I see a no from Cheryl. 

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    No because we would have the weekend [inaudible00:44:36].

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              You want to know why I am saying no?

Heidi Ulrich:                           Yes.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Please.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Because for example, APRALO doesn’t meet until the 25th.

Heidi Ulrich:                           Yes you are correct.  Okay -

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          We need to give more time maybe that’s right.

Heidi Ulrich:                           Actually that’s fine because then Matthias during his day, he can do that his day, that’s fine.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Well Heidi I would very see that Matthias needs to drive this very, very interactively with the regional leaders.

Heidi Ulrich:                           Okay.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       May I make a suggestion Heidi?

Heidi Ulrich:                           Uh huh.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Can you please explain in email and also under the Wiki space that - what we said now that they have to explain how they link the strategic plan.

Heidi Ulrich:                           Okay.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       If it's on the Wiki page and also on the email.

Heidi Ulrich:                           Also on the what?

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       How the request is linked to the strategic plan.

Heidi Ulrich:                           Okay yes I have that.

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       The objective - huh?

Heidi Ulrich:                           Yes I did thank you. 

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Yes I believe Heidi is going to do; she is going to do it like this.  I don’t know who is dealing with the microphones on there but I don’t know who’s hand is up and who’s hand is down when the microphone is on there and I would suggest that we don’t have the microphones so I can at least see who is speaking.  I have three mics and four participants which is a little bit hard.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              And there's no way we poor buggers [inaudible00:46:30] given these useless pieces of equipment.  So either Marilyn or Seth control yourselves and stop it.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Oh dear okay right.  So that’s the next thing I would suggest then happens and then after that we have to drive it.  but we are not going to - are we going to have another call until then?  Or do we have to do everything by email from now on?

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       I don’t think so, by email.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          It is an email thing, okay so the question I have for everyone is how is this going to be driven in the regions?  Is this the responsibility of the Chairs of each region to pursue? 

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Up to each region.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Up to each region, so we just have to basically -

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              We as ALAC need to be extraordinarily careful interfering with regional activity.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          So who is this going to be sent to?

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Whoever Matthias has a working relationship with based on however each region likes to work which is why I keep saying Matthias, whose job it is to regionally coordinate should be leading this interaction.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Okay well then this is obviously something which Matthias is going to have to do first thing tomorrow morning since time is again of the essence.

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    I liked your idea to have someone who is in charge of this budget task and you can ask the RALO to - Matthias can ask the RALO to give the person who is in charge of the budget so he can [inaudible00:48:35].

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Yep the person, the liaison who can liaise with us for this task.  That sounds like a good idea, does anyone think otherwise?

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Not all regions have a liaison as such.  Not all regions have a close interaction with their regional representative in the ALAC and their own leadership team.  Each region is in fact different.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          But I think what Tijani was saying Cheryl was that there would be - Matthias could ask when he sends the information to his contact in each region could ask whether each region could actually nominate some who would be able to liaise back if there are any questions that we might wish to ask from the region at short notice, then who would be that person.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              [Inaudible00:49:38] sure yes, asking who [inaudible00:49:40].

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Yes specifically for this process.  I think there is one thing that needs to be done in those times when we have very little time on our hands since once again we are being rushed, is that we need to really get people to own processes and to push them.  The group of us that is here is totally unable to push everywhere at the same time.  And obviously the more the regions themselves the better it is because that really is the bottom up push, the push from the edges.  Cheryl you’ve raised your hand.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              I have but I'm happy to hold off to any other business if you want to - it is on that point that I will put it to any other business if you want to continue on.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Okay so the next step is going to be this, I guess and there was another question which I was going to ask which is currently we have contributions to Fiscal Year ’12 Budget comments which are there.  From AFRALO, EURALO and LACRALO and NARALO and these are cut and paste from the strategic plan discussions.

Heidi Ulrich:                           Yes Olivier those are the comments that relate to the Fiscal Year ’12 Budget that were made by the RALOs for input into the strategic plan.  Now those are not the full comments.  But only again, only those that relate to the Fiscal Year ’12 Budget.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Okay so then let me ask an open question here, what are we to do with those?  Are we to write a document to send this to the - to Akram or to Juan or what are we supposed to do with these?  Or are these just there for background?

Heidi Ulrich:                           Yes, it's more there for the background for the RALOs so they can see what their comments were for the strategic plan.  So it will help them do that linkage between the strategic plan and their contribution or submissions for the Fiscal Year ’12 Budget.  What I will also add to the workspace actually is the ALAC statement on the strategic plan.  That will help them to see what ALAC put in.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Please yes and if you could also explain under that regional contribution to FY ’12 Budget header if you could just explain what you just explained now, whilst at the same time explaining to them that they should not - I mean I gather for example NARALO having just one comment saying “Initiation of policy development in reference languages other than English.”  And I'm sure NARALO has a lot more to ask for then just this one sentence.  So just say that they just shouldn’t frame their proposals solely based on the input that is there.  Is that correct?

Heidi Ulrich:                           Absolutely so that was just a guide and they can go far beyond that.  And if I could just on that issue of basic services, if I could just respond - Olivier you had an earlier question?

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Please yes.

Heidi Ulrich:                           Yes I've actually just jabbered with David Olive and he mentioned yes for basic services such as language services, telecommunications, issues like that you don’t need to put an extra template in.  However he also says that it would be useful to identify areas of increase in languages and teleconferences that you think you would like to see in the future.  But you do not need to do a request, just identify you know do you see a significant increase in interpretation services overall, et cetera.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          So this would be an accompanying document?

Heidi Ulrich:                           Yes let me just ask him about that.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              I would say yes that it does need to be an accompanying document because there is a number of clarification points we still need to make because this is a test bed situation and because we've had negative experiences in the past.  I think it's pretty important that we see that’s in the past either Seth or Heidi have put in a departmentally specific sub budget for their own team’s activities and for facilitation and maintenance of all we do.  And I am unclear as to whether or not this is in some way, shape or form interacting, interfering or affecting that process.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Thank you Cheryl.  So this accompanying document is something which we should start drafting I would guess as soon as possible.  Could I ask everyone here to add their point?  And I know that you have several points that you wish to have that you already know about Cheryl so if you could perhaps start and I mean we all have to add the points in there that we recall from Cartagena that have not been address and we think still need to be addressed.  May I ask that we do this in the next three or four days?  So as for us to be able to start drafting as well and have something in time.  Cheryl have you raised your hand again?

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              I've still got it sitting for any other business.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Alright, still okay.  And so anyone has a comment on this?  Are we all okay with that?  I see no movement from no one so it probably is correct.  Oh there is a yes from Dave, so fine.  So that’s one thing and then Tijani do you have anything else before we move on to any other business?  Do you have anything else with regards to the next steps?

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    No it's okay.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Okay then let's move swiftly on to 7, any other business knowing that if Heidi get an answer from Juan prior to the end of the meeting we might be able to jump back to one of the previous points.  Any other business?  Cheryl please.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Thank you Olivier it's a particularly important point and it's one that I distinctly want to raise in the context of this meeting because it encompasses formally the [inaudible00:56:38] committee of the ALAC for Finance and Budget.  I would like to have on the record here that as the prior Chair of the FNBSC, I believe we should approach the ALAC as it not only repopulates outgoing members for its regional representativeness in FNBSC but to review, revise and expand the not only role, but the constituency, the makeup of its standing committee. 

From my perspective Olivier it appears to me whilst in days gone by having a single representative who has happened to be or actually has to be an ALAC member coming together in a Finance and Budget Sub Committee of the ALAC at least meant we had cross regional and regional representation in the comments and activities that we previously undertook in Budget and Finance and Strategic Planning processes and [inaudible00:57:57] this brave new world we are heading into no longer going to be feasible. 

I would like to suggest and I'm seeking [inaudible00:58:07] recommendation under its agreement for how it implements or advises ALAC on the implementation of the ALAC review principles seek that the ALAC formally review the structure and function of its standing committee and advise the ALAC that Work Team C consider having a nominated key person from each region, notice I'm not saying an ALAC member, a nominated key person from each region whose focus is on finance, budget and activity planning for the region and their ALSs is added to, in other words expanding the membership and role of the standing committee that the ALAC has called Finance and Budget Sub Committee. 

And that’s a huge shift but I think it's a necessary one because of exactly what we are going through now, not enough prior planning to prevent the piss poor performance when things happen too soon.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Thank you very much Cheryl.  So if I understand you correctly the regions should be taking a bigger role by actually having someone appointed from the region to join the current subcommittee?

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Absolutely.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Would this be specifically for - because some regions do have a Chair, Secretary, some have a Treasurer, would the Treasurer be the?

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Some regions have a subcommittee that is involved in their own budget and finance planning.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Okay so it would be up to them to choose whoever it is.  it could be anyone or it could be someone from that subcommittee or it could be?

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Yep it could be their Aunt Mary as long as they show up and do the job.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Perfect, does anyone else think this is a good idea here?  Can we have a quick poll on this?  Check if you agree and then if we all do - okay excellent.  So it looks like - shall we get Heidi to also include this in her correspondence or do we want to put this as a separate correspondence?

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              It's ALAC’s business.  the in principle decision has to go back to the ALAC but it should go to the ALAC at its next meeting or soon after, preferably its next meeting as a recommendation from Work Team C noting that it is inclusive of the current Finance and Budget Subcommittee.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Okay so I guess this would be an action item for the ALAC call which is due to take place next week and looking at it will probably last five to six hours in length now. 

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Alright well Olivier.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Great I'm fine with the five to six hours.  I not quite sure if others would be able to put up with me for five to six hours, but you go.  Anyway so thanks for that and Heidi have you got this as an action item?

Heidi Ulrich:                           I do in fact Olivier after this call and after my lunch I'll be discussing the agenda of the Excom and the ALAC agendas with you.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Perfect I will take a couple of hours break.

Heidi Ulrich:                           Okay.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          If you allow me and then we will be able to take that up.  Okay great super.  Okay any other business?

Heidi Ulrich:                           If I could ask for a clarification?

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Please.

Heidi Ulrich:                           Because I'm taking notes here and just so Matthias will be sending out the note tomorrow to the RALOs but he is going to be sending it to the leadership, the regional leadership so that includes the three ALAC members as well as the Chair, Secretary and Vice Chairs if the regions have them, is that correct?

Dev Anand Teelucksingh:       Yes.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          I'm not sure.  According to Cheryl and I would actually agree with that, it's up to Matthias to know who he deals with.

Heidi Ulrich:                           Okay.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          So I would imagine yes.  Formally that would be the right people, informally it would be anyone whom he is in good relations with who can get things to move.

Heidi Ulrich:                           Okay so what I would suggest if you may allow that, I would suggest to Matthias that he poll leadership of the regions and then he do a follow up with those he believes can push it forward.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Please yes.  Perfect, Tijani?

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    Yes I think that in [inaudible01:03:03] must move the leadership of the region and it's up to the region.  They can choose a person to be the focal point for this task.

Heidi Ulrich:                           Yes, the liaison that you were speaking about?

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    Yes exactly.

Heidi Ulrich:                           Okay.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Okay any further other business?  No more in which case we just have to have a quick vote again for whether - for a confirmation of the next Work Team C meeting which would be on the 2nd of February 2011 at 1900 UTC.  As you will know the meeting today is at a different time and day than what it used to be before which used to be Tuesday at 2000 UTC.  And so the question is whether we want to permanently relocate ourselves to Wednesday at 1900 UTC every two weeks?  No this really depends on what is better for whom and Tijani your hand is up?

Tijani Ben Jemaa:                    Yes we did [inaudible01:04:21] for that and this people didn’t express themselves what you can do Olivier.  So I think that it is the best time now for this working group.  We have to adopt it and until someone raises again the question of the time we have to come up with this time.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Okay I can see everyone agreeing to what you're saying and so I think this is then set and I feel sorry for countries in which this time is a little bit out of the usual social hours.  But unfortunately had those countries been out in force and explaining, preferring other times then we would have know.  But it was a very limited reply to the Doodle poll.  So 1900 UTC it is every other Wednesday.  And I just have to ask whether there is any last questions before I adjourn this meeting and Cheryl is still typing - Cheryl would you like to perhaps say something rather than type it?

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              Okay I would like to say just based on what Charles has said in other work team meetings and because Charles previously and I don’t believe it's been altered even though he is now the Vice Chair of APRALO, his previous work team leadership within APRALO was for our activity budget and finance subcommittee so I would assume it would be Charles that would be parachuted in as the liaison and/or nominee into the ALAC standing committee. 

So assuming that the ALAC standing committee is meeting would continue on after Work Team C closes up its job.  It will probably run on a same schedule.  He prefers to work outside of his working hours so this timing should be fine for him.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Fantastic.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              He'd prefer to get up two hours earlier and then get on with his day.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          Okay excellent super.  Alright I think there is no other hands up at the moment so with this I would say thank you very much to all of you and we are only to this time 14 minutes late which for me is an absolutely record so far.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:              We started at 10 past, it's only five.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:          We did start at 10 past.  We will try in the future to start closer to the hour and therefore end closer to the hour.  In any case, thank you, good afternoon, good morning, good evening and good night, this meeting is now adjourned.

-End of Recorded Material-

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