APRALO Transcript 17.04.2012


Gisella Gruber:                                     Good afternoon to everyone on today's APRALO call on Tuesday 17 April at 0500 UTC.  On today's call we have Charles Mok, Maureen Hilyard, Hong Xue, Olivier Crepin-Leblond, Sivasubmanian Muthusamy, Holly Raiche, Cheryl Langdon-Orr, and Andrew Molivurae. 

We have apologies from Rinalia Abdul Rahim, Julie Hammer, and Will Tibben.  From Staff we have Silvia Vivanco, and myself, Gisella Gruber.  If I could also please remind everyone to state their names when speaking for transcript purposes, thank you over to you Charles. 

Charles Mok:                                          Okay thanks and I want to quickly go over the action items from the last meeting first.  I'm posting the link to the list that we discussed; I think it was the meeting in March that was held in the Costa Rica.  And Holly are you there?

Holly Raiche:                                          Oh yes. 

Charles Mok:                                          Okay great, well help me if you can because you help us Chair the last meeting as well.  And the action item I'm looking at is that I think it has been done is that we noted from staff that we should be informing the staff about meaningful events in our regions and if they can be added to the Wiki page.  I'm not sure about the responses yet.  But I believe that has been done. 

And maybe we should continue to remind everyone to inform about meaningful and useful events for APRALO in their own region.  The second item is that Cheryl was asking APRALO to think of someone to be part of the Outreach Working Group.  Cheryl how's the progress on this?   

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          We still have a little bit of thinking time but we do need to line someone up because the official call for membership for that has not gone out.    I do know Sala is undoubtedly going to be with her ALAC hat on as well as our own.  I think I'm Chairing that one as well, yes sounds about right.  We certainly do want some people and I'd like to think from perhaps Central or even Southeast Asia would do.   And I'd like to try and get a bit of not only a time zone balance but a cultural balance.  Particularly because we’re going to go through outreach requirements that take in consideration for example the South Pacific Islands [inaudible 00:03:31] distance there, but also for least developing and only emerging economies.  And that’s a fairly important piece of work for our near term future. 

Whether or not we want to do a sort of walk up and excuse me dear have you considered to a few people, for example [inaudible00:03:54] might be ideal for as a new ALS.  He seems to be very engaged and keen.  But that would take us very much obviously to the Western Side.  I'd like to see that balanced, I know we've got Sala but perhaps someone [inaudible00:04:12] as well.

Charles Mok:                                          Okay yes, and thanks Cheryl.  I actually think that if you have someone in mind it wouldn’t be bad to just maybe talk to them and see if they are willing.  I mean we can be a little bit more proactive in drafting or trying to get someone that you might have in mind who might be right to help in the Outreach Working Group. 

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          Well my mind immediately went to Gregory because it's a new ALS.   Obviously we know we've got the energy and enthusiasm from his relationship with [inaudible00:05:05].  But I would very much value someone from the middle.  Perhaps we need to put our thinking hats on there.  But yes happy to approach Gregory as long as everyone else is happy with that less than totally democratic process.

Charles Mok:                                          Thanks Cheryl.  Is there a limit on the number of people to be submitted or to be made into the Working Group from each RALO?

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          There is a minimum threshold.  We would want at least two specifically as RALO representatives.  But like most of our new generation Working Groups we are happy to engage not just leadership but if I can use the terminology rank and file membership from ALSs as well.  And again work will be done and not totally on but certainly recorded on and open with community on Wiki.  I think that’s again is another opportunity.  We actually also need people who know what the specific best technologies are for outreach.  You might be fine with a Twitterverse.  Someone else might need [inaudible00:06:28].  And the third person might be syndicated radio.

Charles Mok:                                          Okay yes good.  So we might still have a little bit of time to think up more names and believe Cheryl you'll be helping us with driving this forward.  I'm sure, you are the Chairman.  And hopefully we will be able to get more than the minimum from APRALO to join the Working Group. 

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          I'd like to think that at the next meeting we will be reporting who is taking it on.

Charles Mok:                                          Okay.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          To Gregory if we can get some names from the center of the world in population as well as in language.   That would be a good thing.

Charles Mok:                                          Okay thank you Cheryl.  The other action items, Secretariat will get someone in charge of the of the Dashboard make sure it's updated often.  Pavan, you're working on that?

Pavan Budhrani:                                  I sent an email out but no response so far.  I will try again or if anyone on the call right now is interested, I could get them - I could nominate them.  Or I could work with staff actually and me and staff could be doing it together on maybe like a two week, monthly basis. 

Charles Mok:                                          Yes, okay we hope we can find some volunteers.  Otherwise maybe Secretariat will work on it with staff.  And Pavan and I can talk about it offline about making sure that it's updated.  The next item is about members to ask staff to send brochure of the APRALO to certain events.  Let's see -

Holly Raiche:                                          I think that’s kind of an ongoing thing.  That goes in with the first item which is one [inaudible00:08:27] events then brochures will be provided for those events.  I think that was kind of how those two went together.

Charles Mok:                                          Yes and actually I myself would want to bring a few brochures over to INET next week.  I don’t know how many others on the call today may be there next week but I would imagine that there will be quite a number of people and organizations from ISOC chapters in Asia that will be in Geneva next week.  And maybe we can try to see the other ones who haven’t joined us yet.  And maybe we [inaudible00:09:05] them to join APRALO.  And the next item is about the Arabic and Chinese version of the brochure, any update from staff?

Silvia Vivanco:                                       Yes, hello.  This is still in progress.  We had some issues with the Chinese version with the translation services.  But they are still working on it as well as the Arabic.  We certainly want to have it ready before Prague. 

Charles Mok:                                          Okay thank you.  Cheryl again is asking for someone from APRALO Subcommittee to be part of the ALAC Rules of Procedures and Metrics Subgroup.  Cheryl is there any progress on that?

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          Not only progress, we’re up and running.  I'm delighted to say that APRALO was well represented on today's first call.  And I trust that the energy and enthusiasm for the first call which was a whole of work group call, in other words it was the Rules of Procedure and the Metrics Subgroup will continue on. 

I think it's important perhaps from our Secretariat’s perspective is to realize that the bulk of the work in this particular event or set of works [inaudible00:10:29] uh okay - we’re going to deal with each of the major [inaudible00:10:36] rules, severally and in parallel will be done on Wikis and so all of our ALSs and ALS members can stick their noses in.  And I would be encouraging them to do so.  But no I'm happy that we have Sala and Holly and Maureen holding the flag quite strongly.  And that will be good ladies, let's keep it up.    

Charles Mok:                                          Okay thank you.  Pavan is - well regarding the Consumer Trust Choice and Competition; again staff would get the presentation and transfer it from the Costa Rica meeting on the Wiki.  That’s been completed. 

Silvia Vivanco:                                       This is still in progress.   We are requesting the transcripts and they take a little bit of time and we know they are in progress.  Hopefully they will be [inaudible00:11:38] next time.

Holly Raiche:                                          Actually Charles and Silvia wasn’t their stuff going - oh no Costa Rica would be right, yep -- just wondering.  There was stuff at Costa Rica unfortunately I had to miss it. 

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          What is also worth noting and without Sala or Rinalia here I don’t think I heard Edmon, is Edmon on the call? 

Holly Raiche:                                          No.

Charles Mok:                                          I think he was dropped with Pavan.  Maybe they will get back in. 

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          I will speak until he comes back.  But I think you all need to know that the call for votes on the ALAC vote on the draft letter has gone out.  And as I think I said before, considering we were quite instrumental in the bludgeoning of this draft letter into its current form, I wouldn’t expect much comment or contention.  

There has been some feedback from the Costa Rica meetings and we will be as a work group, taking those into consideration and they will result in some tweaks and probably footnotes but not substantive changes as such.  To some extent based on the [inaudible00:12:55] so Bruce Tolkin’s comments.  It's always nice to have the person who actually put the motion to the Board because they know the rationale of what they wanted better than anyone. 

That in fact we don’t need to go as far as we thought we might in some areas.  So we've lessened our work not increased our work since Costa Rica.  I also think we should report that Rosemary presented to our Department of Broadband Communication and Digital Economy specifically the GAC representative and part of his team from DBCDE, on that particular draft letter. 

And if I think that’s the sort of thing if any of the ALSs or regional leaders have connection with their - when I say local, I don’t mean local government as such, their national or federal governments, particularly any that have already engaged in GAC or ICANN activities.  I think that’s the sort of presentation or explanation that Rosemary and/or I or anyone else from the work group would be more than happy to help anyone with.  It is hugely important that we get this one right, thank you.

Charles Mok:                                          Okay thank you.   The last item on the action items would be for the IDN Variance Issues we would submit our comments.  And I'm not sure if Edmon is back on the call yet.  No, maybe we will get an update from him later on.  If that’s the case why don’t we move from the action items unless there is any further discussion that’s needed?  If not then we will go on to Number 3, the ICANN Policy Issues that are under open public consultations.  Well we have three items listed in today's agenda. 

Unless some of you may have any other additional items you want to talk about.  Well the first one again is about IDN Variant Issues.  I don’t know if we might need to wait for Edmon to be back to talk about this.  If not well maybe we will wait for him.  And the next item is about the draft advice letter on Consumer Trust, Consumer Choice and Competition.  Holly, do you have anything you would like to talk about that? 

Holly Raiche:                                          No I don’t.   Sorry, the time I've spent has actually been on the .com Registry Agreement.  I don’t have anything.  Do you want me to do anything on it?

Charles Mok:                                          I don’t know.  The idea is we want to discuss whether or not we might want to participate in these consultations and how we might be able to divvy up the work among us to take care of these items if we need to.  And these are the open consultations that come to [inaudible00:16:18] during this period of time. 

Holly Raiche:                                          It is important.  I guess the one thing I was interested in apart from the .com in terms of what is sort of important was the stake renewal notices.  Are we going to do anything - no that’s already done?  It's the letter on Consumer Trust Consumer Choice, if we - where are we at?

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          That's the item we just finished Holly and that’s already gone to the ALAC vote.

Holly Raiche:                                          I'm just sort of looking at these, the sort of ALAC Top 10 Issues.  Thinking what are we up to? 

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          I'm - we don’t have to comment on everything as a region. 

Holly Raiche:                                          No we don’t. 

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          I'm wondering if because the ALAC meeting later today they will be deliberating on what ALAC will be commenting on in the current public open comment.  I wonder if we could ask Sala, Rinalia and Edmon to get back to us and let us know what they're doing.  And that will help inform our decisions perhaps a little.

Charles Mok:                                          Okay. 

Holly Raiche:                                          I think so.  I'm just looking at the Top ALAC Policy Issues, seeing what's - Charles I'm happy to have a look once we get from ALAC what their top issues are and see what - because I think the IDN was really the big issue for many APRALO.  I would have to see where that’s up to. 

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          And that’s actually tracking not too badly because we were well represented Charles as you know in the briefing call.  And that briefing call then directly influenced the public comment drafting that was then going to be put out to the ALAC for its ratification.  I think we’re kicking some more boxes than we were.

Charles Mok:                                          Yes actually it's probably unfortunate that Rinalia, Sala and Edmon are not all on the call.  I just had a - maybe I've been forcing a stick in it, I thought maybe Edmon was here but maybe he hasn’t been all along.  Because I just had a chat online with Pavan and I thought Edmon was with Pavan but I don’t think that was the case.  So Edmon is not here.  We might need to as you said Cheryl get a report from our ALAC representative and see if they can advise us on the progress on the IDN and also whether there can give us some policies on the open issues.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          Yes.

Charles Mok:                                          Okay well in that case then our discussion on the policy issue might be pretty short this time.  Is there anything that you have on your agenda Holly that you'd like to add?

Holly Raiche:                                          Not at this time.  No Charles the one thing that interested me particularly was the .com and that typically because it ties in so much with WHOIS and the .com Registry Agreement Renewal.  Basically .com is not going to have a ‘thick’ WHOIS requirement.  Which if you look at the statement that was finally made by ALAC draft for comments, it's like that’s the one thing we have to say about it which is what a shame that this .com is not going to be required to have a ‘thick’ WHOIS.

Charles Mok:                                          Yes, I'm actually might have missed Olivier's hands up for a little while.  Olivier please?

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:                  Yes thank you Charles.  I'm just a bit baffled because the APRALO agenda links over to the actual comment period themselves and doesn’t link to the statements which have already been written for all of these except the last one of these three.  In fact there are a whole lot of public comments going on at the moment.  I think we have seven or eight of them going on simultaneously at various stages, some being voted on, some having votes just closing, some having votes just opening, some having comment periods for ALAC opening and some having comment period just closed.  Anyway and I might have missed something in between but the ones which you have listed in you agenda, the IDN Variance Issues project has got already a statement that has been drafted. 

In fact there was a meeting that took place over in Costa Rica.  Then there was a conference call that took place recently.  And if you wish to have a look at the actual link of the results I've just sent it over the Adobe Connect room.  You will find that Rinalia has very kindly managed to write a second draft which is currently under evaluation - ALAC vote starts on the 20 April.  The At-Large community has the time until the 18 April which is tomorrow, to be able to comment.  18 April 2359 UTC. 

There is still 24 hours or so, a little more maybe to comment on this one.  The next one the draft advice letter on Consumer Trust, Consumer Choice and Competition.  Well on that one we had plenty of people that were in the working group, several of us.  The actual statement, the first draft was written a while ago, came out for comment from ALAC and At-Large community and there is now a second draft that has been put on the site and here is the link that I've just sent to the Adobe Connect. 

And that one is actually the final one I believe and that will be - I think that the voting has just come out for that.  And the third one on the list is the Second Annual IDN ccTLD Fast Track Process Review.  This one has just now appeared on the public comments.  And so I believe that the ALAC this afternoon will be deciding on whether or not to comment on and will probably be asking our IDN liaison admin to be able to guide us on this.  Thank you.

Charles Mok:                                          Okay thank you Olivier.  Hong you have your hand up.

Hong Xue:                                                 Hi I want to comment on the IDN Issues.  You know Edmon and the other leaders are not here.  And one of the participants and the policy comments and IDN Variance Issue [inaudible00:24:24] apart from the webinar just been mentioned by Olivier and IDN Variance, there are other activities happened concurrently to address this critical issue.  The Chinese community which will be most seriously affected by the we IP project plan has made his own statement and the statement is being sent to ICANN. 

The two draft Olivier just mentioned composed by the At-Large IDN Working Group to comment on the we IP project is now being worked on.  And I haven't seen the second draft but I assume it must be very good.  What I comment is that the issue here is whether APRALO would like to make it's [inaudible00:25:22] statement or would just want to endorse the ALAC statement. 

And saying some IDN Variance Issue is particularly important in this region, very, very important to the Chinese speaking community in this region.  And our comment can serve two purposes.  One purpose is to express our concern regarding the thoughtful arrangement for the long term variance projects; this should be expressed of course.  Another purpose which is more imminent that is the upcoming new gTLD project. 

It's seems that according to the webinar between At-Large community and we IP Working Group, the conclusion is still that no variance TLD will be delegated unless all the technical problems have been sorted out.  So the Chinese community has expressed its strong concern of that for the Chinese character at least of this very much mature technical solution and policy designs available.  They're very much ready to go ahead. 

The issue with this we IP project is still a strong barrier for Chinese community to get the appropriate TLD in the new gTLD projects.  Thank you.

Charles Mok:                                          Thank you Hong, Olivier you have your hand up?

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:                  Thanks very much Charles.  Yes I had my hand up because although the original list, you know that these days the comment periods are actually going into two phases.  There's a first phase which is the phase for initial comments.  And then there's a phase for replies.  The phase for initial comments closes as I mentioned - in fact has already closed.  And we’re in the reply period.  Thankfully we have been extended a bit more time by the IDN Variance Working Group and well mostly that is [inaudible00:27:50] have told us we have until the end of the week to comment. 

That’s why the ALAC comment closing time is tomorrow so as to be able to submit something by the end of the week.  That said what Hong just mentioned or suggested now which is that APRALO supports the statement or actually adds more to the statement is entirely possible by responding to the ALAC statement officially during the response period.  There is a response period which is open until the 29 April. 

So that provides APRALO with a bit of time to be able to draft a response to the ALAC statement and to file that response and to add whatever information it might wish to add, thank you.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          That’s a very wise way forward in my view.

Charles Mok:                                          Yes do we have to maybe get this message over to Edmon so he can help coordinate?  Do we have anything to add? 

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          Well you’ve got Rinalia, Sala, Hong and Edmon all very active in this area.

Charles Mok:                                          Yes, so what Hong just mentioned I'm just wondering if we should make sure because they are not on the call that we have a message sent to them to make sure that they will be able to help get our comments in there if possible.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          They perhaps could knock something up over a Skype chat between now and the 27th, 28th.

Charles Mok:                                          Yes, okay.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          But as I make the point if I may, in my comments to the ALAC drafting on this, I think we need to be sure that we don’t just single out the needs for the Chinese character, that we have a number of unique situations that are effected in our region.  So I'd be looking at the whole CJK as well has perhaps other variances.  We can't I think afford to just be focused on one script issue.  I think we as a region have a number of very important community size wise and need wise that need to have these issues dealt with equitably and probably in parallel.

Charles Mok:                                          Well the important thing is we need to have the language advocates to be able to tell us what to say and what to request.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          But that’s actually trying to do the projects Charles.  What we need to be saying is why the projects need to be prioritized and ordered perhaps differently.

Charles Mok:                                          Okay do we have an action item in this area that we need to take on and Hong what would you suggest that we would be able to do in the moment to make sure that your request is taken care of?

Hong Xue:                                                 Well I guess you have it said very well already that is we inform Edmon and Rinalia to get [inaudible00:31:45] and see what we can do within the APRALO.

Charles Mok:                                          Okay well let me take that up and we will hook up and send a message to them after the call and make sure that they are aware that we have discussed this and they can help us take it forward.  Okay any other discussion on this part of our agenda with the policy issues?  If not, then we will move on the next item which is the update on the ALAC procedures and metrics subgroup.  Cheryl would you be able to help us on giving us the update?

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          I just did. 

Charles Mok:                                          You did well, it's on the agenda.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          I'd be happy to repeat it but I think that would be inappropriate. 

Charles Mok:                                          Yes.  Okay you just did, okay thank you.  Well today we don’t have any representative of the ALAC on our call so we may not really have any report from them unless someone else is -

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          [Inaudible00:33:14] Chair of the ALAC.

Charles Mok:                                          Well Chair of [inaudible00:33:15] but not our APRALO reps.  I was going to say unless Cheryl or Olivier of course would be able to help us with any of the reports telling us the update; otherwise we will probably get back to our ALAC reps next time.  But anything you might like to add Olivier?

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:                  Thank you Charles.  Just a quick recap, the ALAC met over in Costa Rica.  I think we had a total of 34 meetings.  It was a huge number of meetings that took place.  ICANN At-Large staff worked overtime sometimes having to run two meetings parallel which was quite incredible.  I don’t think that any sleep whatsoever and in fact I don’t think that any of the participants got any sleep whatsoever either. 

Later on today we will be going through the list of action items from the ALAC and from the whole week’s meetings during the ALAC call.  I will save going through that list now.  But it was a very successful meeting.  Much was achieved and we met with the Board on one side and the GAC on the other side.  And met also with the ASO, the Address Supporting Organization, it's the first time we ever met with the ASO and a plan was made to get the regional internet registries to work more closely in line with the RALOs. 

That’s something that will be followed up on pretty soon.  I gather at APRALO RALO level as well.  And apart from that I invite you all to take part this afternoon in the ALAC call to go through the action items.   It would take too much time to go through them here.  Perhaps Cheryl might wish to add a few more things.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          No I'm very happy with that recapping.  I think it's worthwhile noting that there is a great deal of work to be done between now and Prague.  And very little time in terms of recovery for people.  And APRALO appears to be very active in a number of the tasks that are going on between now and Prague.  And it might be appropriate for us to ensure that we don’t burn out some of our volunteers. 

So post Prague perhaps we can look carefully at that issue.  The only other thing I would suggest Olivier is as we move towards Prague if there's anything on your ALAC agenda that you would want regional discussion on so that the representatives going to Prague are properly briefed and instructed, that’s all.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:                  Thank you Cheryl.  If I could just add one more thing as well, in addition to the ALAC meeting several of the At-Large Working Groups met in Costa Rica and that of course brought renewed involvement from everybody.  And this might be one of the reasons why we end up having so many public comments responded to because various working groups all worked in parallel to be able to make drafts. 

It's important to get APRALO members to be represented in all of those Working Groups and active in these Working Groups.  Of course coming on to Prague the big new Working Groups that are moving forward at the moment include the Rules of Procedure Working Group which is actually Rules of Procedures but also one side of it being the Metrics Working Group and the third one also - there is also a working group that works with technical issues. 

That’s starting at the moment and being led by Dev Anand Teelucksingh.  So many things going on in parallel, I really urge members to join the working groups and be active.  I know that several of them have decided to actually have rolling timings for calls so that the Asia Pacific and Islands region doesn’t always having to wake up at four in the morning and getting some of the other regions to have a taste of that. 

Now in leading over to Prague as we know it's very short time until then.  So it's going to be a very busy time for everyone.  And as Cheryl mentioned the burnout of those people taking part in all of the working groups might be a risk running.  The more people that get involved in working groups the less likely it will be that there will be burn out. 

Or hopefully there will be less pressure on those members that are most active.  And this is why I urge everyone to consider looking at that.  Perhaps if staff could send their renewed reminder of the current working groups that are open to join that would be a good idea, thank you.

Charles Mok:                                          Thank you, Holly you have your hand up earlier?


Holly Raiche:                                          I was going to remind both Cheryl and Olivier you forgot our meeting with the business constituency, which I thought was a first and was actually quite interesting, that first breakfast?

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          It wasn’t a first but it certainly was worthwhile.  I think those outreaches to component parts and other parts of ICANN are hugely important.  I put things like the Women in DNS Breakfast in that as well.  That ability to energize and find in our case other people in the region who are often representative in other parts of ICANN and internet ecosystem is very valuable.  What we might need to do perhaps in our not too distant future is find some way to appropriately record all of that.  Because I keep feeling that it's not that we’re not doing the stuff, we’re just not making it public. 

Holly Raiche:                                          Well it was a very interesting breakfast.  And a lot of common ground was actually discovered.  So I thought I would put that in as another thing to mention.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:                  In fact if I could just add to this Holly.  It was a meeting with the CSG rather than just a business constituency.  So it was the Commercial Stakeholder Group that we had a breakfast with and then we had a meeting with right afterwards.  In fact, we also had a meeting with the NCSG, the Noncommercial Stakeholder Group.  So we really messed with a lot of the other communities out there and made a point in reaching out and trying to do things out of the usual ICANN silos. 

And one of the things that the ALAC has been really pursuing very much for a long time already is to break down those silos so as for more cross community interaction to take place.  In fact, one thing that is currently taking place is a discussion at support organization and advisor committee level, at SO/AC level as we call it to bring back the SOAC wide discussions that took place - that used to take place at ICANN on Monday afternoons. 

You'd have a couple of big subjects coming up and everyone would come around the table and discuss it rather than everyone discussing it in their own silos and then coming at the end of the week telling the Board differing views.  Good point, moving forward, thank you.

Charles Mok:                                          Thank you.  Okay any further discussion on the report?  If not then actually we probably really have made a record of [inaudible00:42:12] meeting.  Are we going to have anyone with any other business that’s going to be discussed at the moment?

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          Charles I do actually.

Charles Mok:                                          Yes, please.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          It's two things both are sort of foreshadows that I think we need to think about in the  short and medium term future.  [inaudible00:42:36] into the rules of procedure review and the metrics, a matter which I know Hong has raised in the past and that APRALO has talked about even in one of our surveys once, it seems like proxies and the status of proxy on the occasions when we do vote.  There are a few things like that that I suspect if we trolled either through our memory banks or our records, we might find we've raised since 2006-2007 that have not [inaudible00:43:15] and finalized the opportunity is now to bring all of those things forward.  I wonder if we might be able to start a conversation or a list discussion and indeed perhaps a Wiki page where people can just put some contributions for what they think may need to be possibly reviewed in our own regional rules of procedure. 

Because that may help those serving in the metrics and rules of procedure committees look at what is unified between and across the RALOs.  The second thing is I'm wondering with the way that the ALAC meetings have been for many years on the same day as our APRALO meeting, I'm wondering if it's not bad time soon for us to see perhaps whether we want to move not to a different time of day but to a different day in the month so that we don’t have this very tiny gap between our own deliberations and what we need our representatives to be putting forward in the ALAC for later in one day.

Charles Mok:                                          Okay.  Well actually Cheryl for your first point, I think it's great to discuss our own regional rules and procedures in order to and bring back some of the issues that have been discussed before.  But I think possibly for the benefits of many of the others on the call and in the committee, it may be best to set up a Wiki and so we can have some of the older or previously discussed information prepared.  And then we can have a survey of what are the main issues and then we can take it from there.  Would that be the right thing to do, you think Cheryl?

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          Oh yes, I think that’s a very appropriate first step.  It may be that closer to specific comments needing to come into the Rules of Procedure Review and/or the Metrics Working Group, we might need to have it as particular agenda item.  But for example, there's a disparity between our rules and all of the other regions.  We in fact, have the option of a Secretariat.  Some of the others see the Secretariat as a specific leadership and elected position.  [inaudible00:46:17] that we need to prepare our people to have around the table. 

We may indeed want to change that but I was very comfortable with the way it was when we originally put it together and I have no discomfort with it now.  But the role of an elected Secretariat has caused to say the least some extreme tensions in some regions whereby specific geography from wince they should come is being discussed to the detriment of the region, in my personal view.  We've got a full spectrum here and I think we just need to be prepared to say why the massive region of Asia Pacific does some things the way we need to.

Charles Mok:                                          Right, actually that’s why I said it might be best to make a record and a list of all these issues.  We may not need to change some of these procedures that we have followed.  But we have the justifications and we have the records of the - so we don’t have to really just rely on your memory.  But we can have all these previously discussed matters probably taken notes of and shared with RALO members.  And I think that would be very useful. 

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          Absolutely and Charles on this point we are a different level of [inaudible00:48:03] than we were when we [inaudible00:48:04].

Charles Mok:                                          Yes so maybe we should make it one of the action items to follow up with Cheryl and maybe Cheryl you can actually also try to see who might be able to help you with this effort to see where some of the older or previously discussed matters that may be able to help you with coming up with a survey and a list of these items.  And then we can probably take them on and prioritize them.  But I will certainly work with you on this.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          Okay. It would be appropriate then if staff could pop up a page for us to play with.

Charles Mok:                                          Yes, okay.  And your second point about the day of the week of the APRALO meetings, so it doesn’t have to be on the same day as the ALAC meeting.  I mean certainly I am certainly open to that.  And I do think that you have a great point in that not just to make our ALAC members very busy on that particular day.  And also makes it hard for you to react right away with some of the stuff that we discussed in our meeting and then you have to go and report in the ALAC meeting. 

But I have a question first because the ALAC meeting is on Tuesday of that particular week.  Now does our APRALO meeting have to be in the same week or can it be in let's say the previous week so that you have a bit more time?  Because otherwise most likely we move to another day of the week then it might be actually after the ALAC meeting if we do it on the same week.  Do you know what I'm saying Cheryl and Olivier and anyone who might be able to comment or staff?

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          I can comment and Olivier may want to follow up.  Every ALAC could in fact switch that around.  And to some extent there have been a number of cycles where the specific time on the fourth Tuesday of the month has been discussed.  The changing it back from the fourth Tuesday of the month, for example, it's early this month, does bring the pressure that APRALO has been under all along onto some of the other regions where there is not a particularly long period of time in any given month between their regional meeting and the ALAC meeting. 

That does shift the dynamic a bit.  It's obviously a dynamic I'd like to see us shift towards where we have more time between our regional meeting and the ALAC meeting.  But by holding the ALAC meeting towards the end of the month up until now, has had its benefits because it allows for a full cycle of regional meetings to have been conducted before it goes on.  And it also tends to fit with the great tendency for many public comments in the past when they were running on their 21 and 30 day cycles to be more towards the end of the month. 

That of course is different in the brave new world.  But the only thing that makes the commitment is the statement from the ALAC that that’s when they're going to do it.  They could change it any time they please.  Over to you Olivier.

Olivier Crepin-Leblond:                  Yes thank you Cheryl.  I think Cheryl was very eloquent on this one, so thanks, nothing else to add.

Charles Mok:                                          Well I guess we can explore some of the options.  Maybe I can work with staff on checking and [inaudible00:52:14] with the options about moving it to another time because it might also depend on the schedule of some of our staff who might be on other calls as well.  So maybe we can get back to the group on the mailing list and so on about whether we can find a better time of the month to schedule our future meetings. 

Silvia Vivanco:                                       Yes we are ready to support you organizing appropriate times.  We are very flexible with our new timing. 

Charles Mok:                                          Okay you mean you are flexible right?

Silvia Vivanco:                                       Yes.

Charles Mok:                                          Yes, thank you, okay so any other any other business?

Silvia Vivanco:                                       Yes Charles this is regarding the elections, I noticed that there is a Vice Chair position whose term is ending at the end of June.  And so I wondering if you would need to have the staff support to do a timetable for the elections?

Charles Mok:                                          Yes, please that would be necessary obviously.

Silvia Vivanco:                                       Okay.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          There's a bunch of elections, not just us five Chairs.

Charles Mok:                                          Yes if we can have a projection and reminder about the ones that might be happening in the next few months or half year that might be useful.

Silvia Vivanco:                                       Okay.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          That should all be done by June and that includes your selection of or reappointment of ALAC representatives on this year’s cycling.

Charles Mok:                                          Yes. 

Silvia Vivanco:                                       Okay so what about I'll work with you to have a timetable with the elections and then I can talk to -

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          I think you need to work with Charles and Pavan.  But my brains are open for picking that’s not a problem.

Silvia Vivanco:                                       Okay good thanks.

Charles Mok:                                          Okay so we will work with staff on the timetable for future elections.  Let's see any other any other business?  If not then wow we are just [inaudible00:54:53] for the hour.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr:                          And maybe we should always meet at this time of the month Charles, it seems to be -

Charles Mok:                                          Okay thanks for - okay if there is nothing else I will declare the meeting closed and thank you for your participation. 

[End]                                                                                                                  

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