Terri Agnew:Welcome to the At-Large Review Working Party and ITEMS call on Wednesday, 14 December 2016 at 21:00 UTC
Terri Agnew:agenda wiki page: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_hKHDAw&d=DgIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=Y4DJ5RaUAmXcMzyS7d8XTe0DaVlk1hro67dUtjI-6jk&s=wtk1EMuRFtWn0fuvaYVgyoaG1C6hQSUuol5kkeAWBT8&e=
Holly Raiche:Hi Terri - I won't need a dial out - I'm in Sydney having coffee - but trying out my earphones. Hopefully all will go well. Tks
Terri Agnew:thanks for verifying Holly!
McTim:hi all
Holly Raiche:Terri - can you hear me?
Terri Agnew:@Holly, no and your mic is not active
Holly Raiche:Terri - can you hear me now - I've activated my mic
Terri Agnew:I see mic is active but not hearing you
Alberto Soto:Hello all!
Holly Raiche:Cheryl - while the call me on my mobile- could you start - Tks
Holly Raiche:olks - We first need to ask whether this is open for observers
Nick Thorne:Evening everyone. I too would like some of Cheryl's bread
Terri Agnew:@Holly, I sent you a private AC chat
Rosa Delgado:hello
McTim:I'm happy
John Laprise:As #23 on the At Large Review WP I defer to and will abide by established process and procedure. :)
Heidi Ullrich:There are both Representatives and Participants on the WP.
Holly Raiche:CLO - doing well. For some reason my mobile goes to voice mail so I will have to dial in from here
Alan Greenberg:Again, our long history is that non-members *may* be given speaking rights at the discretion of the chair (and giving precedence to members)
Heidi Ullrich:Representatives are seen as Members of the WP.
Terri Agnew:Welcome Leon Sanchez
avri doria (observer):as an observer in this group, though an AL member, I will happily abide by whatever rules the group has established, and am happy not to speak if that is they way.
Terri Agnew:Holly has joined on audio
McTim:Have you all see our FAQ?
Alan Greenberg:That is not correct.
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond:Individual voting rights directly into the ALAC processes? How does this differ from the 2003 debacle with fake identities?
McTim:olivier, have you read the doc or our FAQ?
Glenn McKnight:@Tom are you suggesting the Unaffiliated the same voting rights as a ALS?
McTim:they are not alike in any manner
McTim:we kept 2000 in mind when developing the model
Glenn McKnight:Remember a ALS represents an organization which could be many members
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond:I have not managed to finish reading the report yet
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond:I am 50% through it
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):Glenn that is how I read it...
Glenn McKnight:I was amazed that no questions on the Working Groups and a recommendation was to get rid of them
Glenn McKnight:Secondly the section on our use of Social Media is dead wrong. Again no awareness of our Social Media WG and use of social media
John Laprise:I disagree. I think the report is dead-on.
John Laprise:across the board
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):have you distributed that to us yet Lars I have not seen it?
Alberto Soto:Ok, I'll read
Alan Greenberg:We have not presumed that a group of people PARTICIPATE as a group. They JOIN as a group, but participate as individuals.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):indeed Alan
Alan Greenberg:Of course, nothing precludes such group work.
Alan Greenberg:Nor have I
Alan Greenberg:It was sent to Lars apparently.
Glenn McKnight:people speaking at same time
Lars Hoffmann:It was posted to the list yesterday at 11:01 MT
John Laprise:Nick is faint
Glenn McKnight:Nick your voice is low
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):very sorry to have not read the. FAQ
Nick Thorne:This is indeed covered n the FAQ
Leon Sanchez:I haven't seen the FAQ either
Lars Hoffmann:The FAQ - named 'addendum' - was sent to the list yesterday at 11:01 MT (18:01 UTC) i will re-post it again right now.
John Laprise:Sidenote: The favoring of groups with status presupposes that freedom of association is evenly distributed which is not the case globally. ALS are illegal in some jurisdictions.
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond:The question of Voting Rights is very important. It is because of a scrw-up in voting rights in 2002 that At-Large has fallen so far down the scale of trust. It is thanks to the ALAC-RALO-ALS struture that there has been no ability to for external capture. Re-integrating individual voting rights opens the door to a challenge in defining the electorate. I have read the FAQ document which addresses this, and in my opinion this is unworkable with hundreds of voters
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond:plus in 3 months you could capture At-Large -- you just need to get a group of individuals to participate intensely for a fe wonths before an election and then you take over the vote.
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond:Key FAQ: 5) What voting rights will ALMs have in RALO / ALAC elections?ALMs that have participated in one or more ICANN WG groups for at least three months will beeligible to vote in RALO / ALAC elections and the elections for the At-Large elected member ofthe ICANN Board of Directors. In addition, ALMs who regularly participate in RALO conferencecalls will also be eligible to vote in elections.
Aída Noblia:Hi all
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):having now read the FSW thanks
Terri Agnew:Aida Noblia has joined on audio
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond:Tom -- I am QUOTNG the key part of the FAQ
Maureen Hilyard:We have a growing number of end-user participation from China..
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond:Again: 5) What voting rights will ALMs have in RALO / ALAC elections?ALMs that have participated in one or more ICANN WG groups for at least three months will beeligible to vote in RALO / ALAC elections and the elections for the At-Large elected member ofthe ICANN Board of Directors. In addition, ALMs who regularly participate in RALO conferencecalls will also be eligible to vote in elections.
Glenn McKnight:Voting rights for Unaffiliated is interesting, Tom menitions that would be active in a working group, But the recommendation is to get rid of working roups
Glenn McKnight:groups
Maureen Hilyard:At the moment China has one vote..because their government only allows one ALS.. at the moment. If we allowed individual voting rights especially with their growing interest , then elections would be interesting
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):interesting indeed
John Laprise:+1 Alan
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):yup
Nick Thorne:Alan yes. We are in listening mode. As I said ewe will note and consider points raised here, but best to enter i Google doc
Alan Greenberg:Curious about jurisdiction that don't ALLOW an ALS but would encourage individual participation.
John Laprise:They might allow an ALS but would be less able, perhaps, to police individual participation.
Leon Sanchez:Agree with you OCL
John Laprise:*disallow an als
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond::-)
Glenn McKnight:I have menitioned this three times in the chat
John Laprise:Credentialing/awarding voting rights not solely a participation issue but essentially a "good faith participant" issue. Demonstrating that is the key. Participation is but one element.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):agree Alan we need to address those matters
Glenn McKnight:good points Alan
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond:basing a vote on participation irrespective on one's real identity is dangerous. We have had plenty of dubious characters trying to participate in the past - who remembers Jeff WIlliams?
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):shudder
Alan Greenberg:Given how few individual ALAC members AND ALS representatives actaully participate in WG, what is the rationale for beleiving that in the new model, they will start flocking into our WGs.
Alan Greenberg:And for that matter, how few ALAC members and RALO leaders who participate
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond:re: travel may we notify ITEMS individually directly?
Alan Greenberg:Cheryl, if you have gone on to better things in ICANN, clearly we carry the blame and your travel will be attributed to us.
McTim:Table 7 is taken from At Large website directly
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):lol
McTim:it is not travel related, so not coming from ICANN stafff, I had a different table in mind
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):yup no deeds good or bad go unpunished
Glenn McKnight:But the damage to our reputation is serious and someone should be held accountable
Sebastien:Be even it must have been ask to each person concern
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):sure is Glenn but it is what it is
John Laprise:1.5
Terri Agnew:scheduled for 90 minute duration
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):good point Tom re ability to also make pvt input
Ariel Liang:@HOlly - noted
Alberto Soto:I did not receive the invitation
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):ITEMS is able to take such comments directly
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):correct Alan
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):the attention it got was astonishing of course Alan
Alan Greenberg:Yes indeed. And not unrelated to the language and tone of the report.
Leon Sanchez:indeed
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):very complex indeed!!!
Heidi Ullrich:+1 Holly!Thanks to the entire group who developed the new site.
Heidi Ullrich:Also, please note that this site had planned stages for full implementation
Heidi Ullrich:and we are still implementing those changes
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond:If you are feeling nostalgic about the Web site: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__web.archive.org_web_20120217004532_http-3A__www.atlarge.icann.org_&d=DgIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=Y4DJ5RaUAmXcMzyS7d8XTe0DaVlk1hro67dUtjI-6jk&s=GOSPuhkb2TuTpPe1la_i9YHgeWT-jL3QWkwt9Ti4Zj0&e=
John Laprise:I am not nostalgic but I am unsatisfied,
John Laprise:website -wise
John Laprise:Give me access, I'll comment.
Maureen Hilyard:I've just got to finish reading it :(
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond:some of us have returned from travel and are only just starting our comments
Leon Sanchez:I'm in the same case, need permission to access
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond:I did not have to ask for access. My access work
Alberto Soto:sotobeto@gmail.com
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond:access with any kind of address
John Laprise:jlaprise@gmail.com
Alan Greenberg:Point I was making is that a person may CHOOSE to use their Gmail address which is not intuitively recognizable.
Alan Greenberg:6 of Jan or whenever ITEMS submits the next version.
Leon Sanchez:I need to leave now. Apologies for leaving early
Leon Sanchez:thanks everyone
Leon Sanchez:bye
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):bye
Heidi Ullrich:Thanks, All, Thanks for joining!
Alberto Soto:Thanks!! Bye!!
Alberto Soto:CLO, IANA transition...... in de middle
Larisa Gurnick:Thank you all very much for your participation and input.
Heidi Ullrich:Thanks All!
Lars Hoffmann:thank you everyone.
Aída Noblia:Muchas Gracias. Saludos a todos
Tom Mackenzie:Thanks all
Tom Mackenzie:bye
avri doria (observer):bye
McTim:bye
Ariel Liang:thank you all!
Aída Noblia:Bye all
Silvia Vivanco:Thank you all bye!
