Sub-group Members:   Andreea Brambilla, Avri Doria, Brian Scarpelli, Cheryl Langdon-Orr, Cláudio Lucena, David McAuley, Erich Schweighofer, Farzaneh Badii, Finn Petersen, Greg Shatan, Griffin Barnett, Herb Waye, Jorge Cancio, Kavouss Araseh, Milton Mueller, Phil Marano, Philip Corwin, Robin Gross, Samantha Eisner, Steve DelBianco, Tatiana Tropina, Wale Bakare   (22)

Staff:  Bernard Turcotte, Brenda Brewer, Nathalie Vernolle,  Patrick Dodson  (4)

Apologies: Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix, Thiago Jardim

 ** If your name is missing from attendance or apology, please send note to **


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1.     Welcome

2.     Review of Agenda (2 minutes)

3.     Administration (1 minute)

3.1.  Changes to SOIs

3.2.  Identify Audio Only and Phone Number Participants

4.     Issues and Proposed Issues (50 minutes)

4.1.  Discussion of “OFAC Recommendation First Draft”

4.2.  Discussion of Next Set of Proposed Issues: “Provisions relating to choice of law in certain ICANN Agreements”:

4.2.1.     Registry Agreements do not have a provision stating the governing law of the agreement

4.2.2.     Registrar Agreements do not have a provision stating the governing law of the agreement

4.2.3.     Arbitration of Registry Agreement: Lack of choice in arbitral body and jurisdiction of arbitration

4.2.4.     Lack of governing law provisions could lead to courts more likely choosing their own law as governing law

4.2.5.     provisions regarding the venue for hearing disputes in registry agreements are limited to one specific venue, with flexibility allowed only in contracts with Governments and other special cases

4.3.  Review of Revised Proposed Issues List

4.4.  Next Steps

5.     AOB (5 Minutes)

6.     Adjourn (next meeting 13 September 1300UTC)

Raw Captioning Notes

Disclaimer: This rough edit transcript, which may contain missing, misspelled or paraphrased words, is only provided for your immediate review and is not certified as verbatim and is not to be cited in any way. 


  • (none)

Action Items:

  • GS to amend draft OFAC recommendation per discussions.


  • Participants comment OFAC recommendation and review issues list.

Documents Presented

Chat Transcript

Brenda Brewer: (9/6/2017 13:39) Good day!  Welcome to WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup Meeting #45 on 6 September 2017 @ 19:00 UTC!

  Brenda Brewer: (13:39) When not speaking, please mute your phone by pressing *6 (star 6). To unmute, *6. This call is recorded.

  Brenda Brewer: (13:39) Reminder to all, for captioning and transcription, please  state your name before speaking and speak slowly.  Thank you!

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (13:55) Hello all

  Captioner: (13:56) Hello!

  Brenda Brewer: (13:59) Kavouss, I am calling the phone number your provided.  No answer yet.  Thank you!

  Herb Waye Ombuds: (14:01) Greetings

  Thomas Rickert: (14:01) Hi everyone!

  Thomas Rickert: (14:01) Just as a heads-up. I will have to leave the call in a bit less than 30 mins and jump on another call.

  David McAuley: (14:02) I am #4154

  Kavouss Arasteh 2: (14:02) thomas

  Kavouss Arasteh 2: (14:02) G.

  Kavouss Arasteh 2: (14:02) Pls kindly read my mail and kindly act accordingly

  Thomas Rickert: (14:03) Hello Kavouss, I received multiple e-mails from you. Which one are you referring to, please?

  Kavouss Arasteh 2: (14:03) The one I sent today

  Wale Bakare: (14:04) Hi everyone. Good morning/afternoon/evening

  Farzaneh Badii: (14:05) Congratulations Avri!!!

  avri doria: (14:06) i lost sounds and have to reboot, but thanks.

  Milton Mueller: (14:06) yes sorry

  Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): (14:06) congrats Avri, we'll miss you ;-P

  Tatiana Tropina: (14:06) Congrats again, Avri!

  Erich Schweighofer: (14:06) Congratulations, Avri!

  Robin Gross: (14:07) Congrats, Avri!

  Thomas Rickert: (14:07) Kavouss, I just replied to the e-mail you sent this morning.

  Kavouss Arasteh 2: (14:08) ok I have not read that yet

  Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): (14:09) @Greg: please indulge with us, which have not been able to read this paper

  Steve DelBianco: (14:09) no need to debate that comment on our call.  It shoud be discoverable by some legal research

  Kavouss Arasteh 2: (14:10) Greg

  Milton Mueller: (14:10) I support the proposed change

  Wale Bakare: (14:11) Congratulations, Avri

  Kavouss Arasteh 2: (14:11) Greg, I have not yet digested the comments

  Milton Mueller: (14:11) you sound like me talking to me students, Greg ;-)

  Milton Mueller: (14:11) ("keep up with the reading")

  Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): (14:12) back to US law school...

  Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): (14:13) good point, Farzaneh

  Tatiana Tropina: (14:13) Back to any law school :)

  Milton Mueller: (14:14) we may need a better list of problems associated with OFAC

  Milton Mueller: (14:15) more complete, and specific - a bullet list

  David McAuley: (14:15) that's on page 3

  Milton Mueller: (14:16) yes I remember that being in there

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (14:18) Last para before the recommendation for the Transparency issue

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (14:18) that Sam is talking about now

  Milton Mueller: (14:21) do we really need proof of whether they enforce it? The fact is they could enforce it 'cuz it's in their contract.

  Robin Gross: (14:26) I agree with Milton on pursuing a general license.

  Tatiana Tropina: (14:26) I agree too

  Erich Schweighofer: (14:27) I also agree with Milton even if it is difficult to achieve it.

  Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): (14:27) seems to make sense - ICANN Staff may always explain if it is too difficult

  Philip Corwin: (14:28) Must depart for another call

  David McAuley: (14:28) Agree with sam about language not presupposing outcome

  David McAuley: (14:29) Sam, that is

  David McAuley: (14:29) Sounds achievable

  Farzaneh Badii: (14:29) but board should consider it

  Farzaneh Badii: (14:30) it's about access to DNS.

  Robin Gross: (14:30) Sends an important message that ICANN can be un-molested by US foreign policy choices.  That is important message to send on ICANN's ability to do this job.

  David McAuley: (14:31) Some messages on list did presume an outcome, I think Sam's point is therefore important

  Wale Bakare: (14:31) The lobby makes sound difficult to achieve

  David McAuley: (14:32) Agree with Milton's point about difference between recommendation and presumed outcome

  Wale Bakare: (14:32) *may sound

  Milton Mueller: (14:33) ok so we say that a general license is the most desirable outcome and we recommend that ICANN pursue it within the bounds of feasibility

  Wale Bakare: (14:33) +1 Milton

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (14:33) Time check - 27 minutes left in call

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (14:38) hand

  Samantha Eisner: (14:40) I think that the point that Bernie was raising about implementation could be addressed through the plenary noting the expectation for reporting against implementation plans for all WS2 recommendations

  Milton Mueller: (14:45) Just a question: do registries and registrars WANT there to be a choice of law provision?

  Greg Shatan: (14:46) Milton, good question.

  Milton Mueller: (14:47) ok, so Switch is a registry

  Milton Mueller: (14:48) Jorge is speaking for Swiss registry?

  Greg Shatan: (14:48) ".Swiss" I believe.

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (14:48) Yes  dot swiss

  Farzaneh Badii 2: (14:48) .watch is around too

  Milton Mueller: (14:48) ;-)

  Milton Mueller: (14:49) if TLD names should be protected in the second level, then no one can register!

  Farzaneh Badii 2: (14:50) I was just thinking about that...

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (14:50) @Jorge - hand?

  Farzaneh Badii 2: (14:50) but thought off topic:) so Jorge can register

  Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): (14:50) sorry

  Milton Mueller: (14:51) May I ask, are 4.2.1 - 4.2.4 bascially all the same issue?

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (14:51) time check - 9 minutes left in call

  David McAuley: (14:55) it does seem flexible as is

  Steve DelBianco: (14:57) GNSO would probably not be able to support a recommendation if both Registries and Registrars opposed it.

  Erich Schweighofer: (14:57) It seems to be that these agreements establish its own legal regime, thus possible interference by ordre public concerns is limited.

  Greg Shatan: (14:58) I think we will need some inputs from the registries and registrars on this point.

  Erich Schweighofer: (14:58) Right, Greg.

  Wale Bakare: (15:00) Getting inputs from registrars and registries, from the OFAC affected nations? Or just all the registrars or registries  based outside the US?

  Greg Shatan: (15:00) This is not an OFAC issue.

  Wale Bakare: (15:00) Yes, Greg i understand

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (15:03) 3 past the top of the hour

  David McAuley: (15:04) Thanks Greg, staff, and all, good bye

  Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): (15:04) sorry!!

  Farzaneh Badii 2: (15:04) is the OFAC comment in a Google doc?

  Farzaneh Badii 2: (15:04) ok

  Farzaneh Badii 2: (15:04) Thanks Greg

  Robin Gross: (15:05) Thanks, Greg and all, bye!

  Herb Waye Ombuds: (15:05) Bye everyone, have a great rest of your day/night

  Wale Bakare: (15:05) Thanks all, bye!

  Erich Schweighofer: (15:05) Servus from Vienna.

  Tatiana Tropina: (15:05) thanks all - bye!

  Andreea Brambilla: (15:05) Thanks!

  avri doria: (15:05) bye

  Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): (15:05) bye!

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (15:05) bye all

  Greg Shatan: (15:05) Bye all!

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