Sub-group Members:   Andrew Harris, Ayden Férdeline, Bartlett, Morgan, Brian Scarpelli, Cheryl Langdon-Orr, David McAuley, Erich Schweighofer, Farzaneh Badii, Finn Petersen, Greg Shatan, Herb Waye, Jeff Neuman, Milton Mueller, Philip Corwin, Raphaël Beauregard-Lacroix, Robin Gross, Steve DelBianco, Tatiana Tropina, Thiago Jardim, Wale Bakare   (20)

Observers/Guests:  Thomas Rickert

ICANN Org:  Bernard Turcotte, Brenda Brewer, Nathalie Vergnolle

Apologies:  Kavouss Arasteh

 ** If your name is missing from attendance or apology, please send note to **




1.     Welcome

2.     Review of Agenda (1 minutes)

3.     Administration (2 minutes)

3.1.  Changes to SOIs

3.2.  Identify Audio Only and Phone Number Participants

4.     The Way Forward: Progress Report

5.     AOB (2 Minutes)

6.     Adjourn (next meeting 30 August 13:00 UTC)

Raw Captioning Notes

Disclaimer: This rough edit transcript, which may contain missing, misspelled or paraphrased words, is only provided for your immediate review and is not certified as verbatim and is not to be cited in any way. 


  • It was accepted to initially proceed with the following issues until the issues list is completed:
    • OFAC
    • Choice of law for registry and registrar agreements.

Action Items:

  • GS and Staff will work on completing the list of issues for the next meeting.
  • GS will propose a draft recommendation on OFAC to the list prior to the next call.


  • (none)

Documents Presented

Chat Transcript

  Brenda Brewer: (8/23/2017 13:42) Good day and welcome to Jurisdiction Subgroup Meeting #43 on 23 August 2017 @ 19:00 UTC!

  Brenda Brewer: (13:42) If you are not speaking, please mute your phone by pressing *6 (star 6). To unmute, *6. This call is recorded.

  Brenda Brewer: (13:42) Reminder to all, for captioning and transcription, please  state your name before speaking and speak slowly.  Thank you!

  Bonnie-Captioner: (13:53) Hi, Brenda!  Can you please make me a host?

  Bonnie-Captioner: (13:53) Thank you!

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (13:58) hi all

  David McAuley: (13:59) dialing in, I am 3200

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (13:59) Hello all

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (13:59) Brenda on now, muted the

  Jeff Neuman: (14:04) Am i the only one who hears a very high pitch

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (14:04) No I have it also

  Milton: (14:04) me too

  David McAuley: (14:04) i hear it

  Thomas Rickert: (14:04) No, I have it also,.

  Robin Gross: (14:04) I hear it.

  David McAuley: (14:04) like background noise

  Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix: (14:05) we all hear it I believe...

  Thomas Rickert: (14:05) Am glad to hear those frequencies at my age tbqh

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:05) nor am I

  Farzaneh Badii: (14:05) this background noise is quite disturbing. it's scratching my soul

  David McAuley: (14:05) caused by solar eclipse

  Thomas Rickert: (14:05) nice, David!

  Jeff Neuman: (14:06) Can someone PLEASE find out where that is coming from

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:06) I am listening via phone though with AC mute

  Wale Bakare: (14:06) Hi all, good morning, afternoon, evening

  Jeff Neuman: (14:06) do people on phone only hear it as well?

  Jeff Neuman: (14:07) If not, I will change to phone

  Thomas Rickert: (14:07) I am on the phone for audio and I get the noise, Jeff,

  Thomas Rickert: (14:07) -would really be great if staff / the operator could identify the source and stop it.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:08) I hear it from AC audio only

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (14:08) working on it

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (14:08) but nothing obvious so far

  Bartlett Morgan: (14:08) Hello everyone

  Jeff Neuman: (14:08) I imagine this is what a dog wqhistle is like for dogs....

  Milton: (14:09) ;-)

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (14:10) All we will need about 45 seconds to restart the audio to see if it clears the noise

  Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix: (14:11) ok

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:11) ok

  Jeff Neuman: (14:11) ahhhhhh

  Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix: (14:11) all good on my side

  Milton: (14:11) it's gone!

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (14:11) ok that seems betterr

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:11) disconnected the phonee

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (14:11) yes it would - sorry

  Robin Gross: (14:12) Don't hear the noise now.

  Jeff Neuman: (14:12) woo hoo

  David McAuley: (14:12) cannot hear

  Thomas Rickert: (14:12) Noise is gone. Thanks.

  Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix: (14:12) we can all enjoy the call peacefully haha

  Greg Shatan: (14:13) david can you hear

  David McAuley: (14:13) need to redial

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (14:13) The phone connections were dropped so if using phone lines you will have to reconnect

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:13) dialled back in

  Thiago Jardim: (14:13) Greg, as to the number of issues that will eventually feature in any finak report, I'd just like to note that I understand the 2-4 issues is not a hardline limit, and that it may go above that numbe depending on our ability .

  Thiago Jardim: (14:13) If you can take that up, I'll avoid asking for the floor to make that point.

  David McAuley: (14:13) back in and can hear now

  Brenda Brewer: (14:14) Thank you all for your patiences with the audio issue.!!

  Thiago Jardim: (14:14) Thank you, I appreciate it,

  Brenda Brewer: (14:16) A reminder to please mute your phone lines when not speaking.  Thank you!

  Thiago Jardim: (14:17) I understand the importance of being focused, but let's see how it goes. Now, instead of discussing that, let's consider the proposals.

  David McAuley: (14:17) prioritization is important in listing issues, imo

  Robin Gross: (14:17) AGree

  Thiago Jardim: (14:18) I think we are on the same page to the extent "likely" allows for flexibility.

  Milton: (14:18) Let's go...

  Thiago Jardim: (14:18) Let's go. Cheers.

  David McAuley: (14:22) let's go with spreadsheet

  Thiago Jardim: (14:22) I'd like to ask for clarificaiton

  Milton: (14:24) We've been waiting at the gate for 25 minutes

  Thiago Jardim: (14:25) I think we may already have enough material to get those ltwo issues out the gate probably very soon, in few days time.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:26) Tim is again against us to go sub group way...  unfortunately

  Milton: (14:27) So OFAC is one issue?

  Milton: (14:27) OK

  Farzaneh Badii: (14:30) bad persons? bad hombres!

  Milton: (14:32) yes

  Milton: (14:32) TLD applicants, approved TLD operators

  Thiago Jardim: (14:32) Sanctions can be targeted at countries in general, and not persons in particular. Would you agree?

  Milton: (14:33) they can be and that's what we are trying to avoid in DNS.

  Milton: (14:33) reading the transscript I cant make sense of your acronyms: LGBT and PCPLD?

  Milton: (14:35) :D

  Milton: (14:35) apologies I have to leave now

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (14:35) @Milton this is raw captioning - we get a cleaned up version 3 to 5 days later which is posted to the wiki

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (14:36) and the cleaned up version is called a transcript

  Erich Schweighofer: (14:36) ccTLDs should be covered by the proposed general licence of OFAC

  Thiago Jardim: (14:37) We could use a wording that recommends a license for the class of transactions that related to the manaement of the DNS.

  Thiago Jardim: (14:37) that are related to the management of the DNS*

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (14:38) @Thiago uncertain that would cover registrars - and this has been brouht up as an issue

  Wale Bakare: (14:39) Transactions are binded agreement between ICANN  customers and ICANN

  Wale Bakare: (14:40) These include SLAs

  Steve DelBianco: (14:40) also, certificattion of an accredited privacy/proxy provider

  Thiago Jardim: (14:40) If we can't get into that much detail, we could recomend that studies be undertaken by ICANN to identify the class of transactions that should then be covered by the general license we would be now recommending ICANN to seek from OFAC

  Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix: (14:41) yes it might be better that way, it makes it less technically complex to draft a reco

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:41) makes sense to me

  Thiago Jardim: (14:42) class of transactions being generally defined by ourselves as those relating to the dns management in the global public interest, including but not necessarily limited... etc.

  Wale Bakare: (14:42) Service Level Agreements (SLAs) may include ICANN customers such as the one running the Heirarchical and Distribution DNS services

  Thiago Jardim: (14:43) Bernard, that's brilliant

  Wale Bakare: (14:43) *ones

  Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix: (14:43) Indeed Bernie +1

  Wale Bakare: (14:44) Absolutely, Bernie

  Farzaneh Badii: (14:45) ICANN's priority should be to facilitate access to DNS ( it says it in its bylaws) I don't understand why we can't make recommendations which asks ICANN to do certain things

  Thiago Jardim: (14:46) Give me some credit sometimes Greg :-)

  Steve DelBianco: (14:48) reminder: CCWG Consensus Recommendations must be implemented, unless the Board votes 2/3 against implementing.

  David McAuley: (14:49) thus our recommendations need to be couched in terms that ICANN can accomplish

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (14:49) @Steve IF approved by the WS2 AND the chartering orgs

  Steve DelBianco: (14:49) Transitional Bylaws describe how CCWG Recommendations are to be considered by board/management

  Farzaneh Badii: (14:49) Thanks Steve.

  Steve DelBianco: (14:49) of course, Bernie.  That's why I said CCWG Consensus recommendations

  Thiago Jardim: (14:49) Time constraints should militate against us going into too much detail.

  Thiago Jardim: (14:49) I concur with what Bernie said, and believe we should stick to that

  Wale Bakare: (14:49) I think we should define, identify what ICANN should look into in our proposal. How it should be implemented can as well be specified, if need be. As Bernie suggested, we have get the scope spelt in the proposal as well

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (14:50) @Steve - yes just making it clear for everyone

  Steve DelBianco: (14:50) so we DO have some leverage to get our best ideas implemented

  Thiago Jardim: (14:51) Steve, we should be careful that our ideas do not take away ICANN's ability to imagine other ways of fulfilling whatever we recommend them to do.

  Wale Bakare: (14:51) Who are these individuals needing OFAC licences

  Steve DelBianco: (14:51) can we think of OFAC as the priority instance of addressing Sanctions in general?

  Thiago Jardim: (14:52) and other entities that have contractual relationships with ICANN and fear that they cannot transact with OFAC sanctionned countries, out of fear that they will suffer sanctions.

  Farzaneh Badii: (14:54) it could be some registrars that do that as we mentioned and Steve had a good recommendation for that which I put on the mailing list

  Thiago Jardim: (14:54) we could use broad language that identifies a class of people/entities who may suffer from OFAC sanctions, similarly to what Bernie said in respect to the definition of 'class of transactions'.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:55) I am going to need to leave just before top of hour for my next call

  Wale Bakare: (14:55) Thank you Bernie for speaking my mind. We need to assess the risk before hand

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:55) indeed Bernie!

  David McAuley: (14:56) Right Bernie and ICANN cannot give legal advice to third parties

  Robin Gross: (14:57) I believe it would also create liability for ICANN if it were to do so.

  Thiago Jardim: (14:58) I'd like to point to the fact that we are nor should be limited to adressing what has happened, but also risks that are plausible.

  Thiago Jardim: (14:58) That's why recommendations may be general in some respects.

  Thiago Jardim: (14:58) We cannot go into listing things that have not happened.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:59) bye 👋 have to drop now, good progress today... thanks everyone

  Thiago Jardim: (14:59) And the positive side of a recommendation that points to a general direction, as Bernie said, is that it allows for the flexibility for the Board to tackle issues that may arise later.

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (14:59) bye all

  Thomas Rickert: (14:59) Glad to see the group making progress!

  Farzaneh Badii: (14:59) Thiago, you want a lot of credit it seems

  Thomas Rickert: (14:59) Well done all!

  Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix: (15:00) haha

  Farzaneh Badii: (15:00) FYI I am not giving you any credit in this stance!

  Thiago Jardim: (15:00) Thank you.

  Thiago Jardim: (15:00) Apologies Farzie.

  David McAuley: (15:00) good bye all

  Wale Bakare: (15:01) Thanks everyone, good job! Bye

  Steve DelBianco: (15:01) very constructive call.

  Thiago Jardim: (15:01) Bye

  Farzaneh Badii: (15:01) Bye everyone. great meeting.

  Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix: (15:01) bye bye all

  Bartlett Morgan: (15:01) Good bye all

  Philip Corwin: (15:01) Ciao

  Robin Gross: (15:01) Thanks Greg and all, bye!

  Tatiana Tropina: (15:01) bye all

  Greg Shatan: (15:01) Bye all and thanks!

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