Sub-group Members:  Avri Doria, Cheryl Langdon-Orr, Christopher Wilkinson, Farzaneh Badii, Greg Shatan, Herb Waye, Jorge Villa, Julf Helsingius, Sebastian Bachollet, Steve DelBianco

Staff:  Berry Cobb, Brenda Brewer, Nathalie Vergnolle, Patrick Dodson

Apologies:  Alan Greenberg, Kavouss Arasteh

** If your name is missing from attendance or apology, please send note to **




0. Call Admin and Roll Call / Apologies (2min- CLO) Apologies 

1. Welcome - Opening Remarks - Our aim and purpose for today's call (3-5 min-SDB, CLO)

2. Review (brief) of last meeting records here and any Action Items (5-10 min- SDB, CLO) 

Refer here to revised report that reflects consensus of our subgroup on our 13-Jul call.     This was first circulated this on 17-Jul, and doc, pdf, and a redline, sent again to our list earlier today.  A Google Doc version is available here

3. Primary Agenda Item - Discussion (25-35 min SDB, FB, CLO)

  • Review Public Comment documentation, and consideration of any amendments to our recommendations, today we will start with the Good Practices  section and call for consensus planning for edits to our documentation as reviewed.
  • Start development of options for our FINAL Recommendation text edits or changes and then publish a report on results of the public consultation. To be inline with current timeline and milestone dates for WS2 project *completion* by end June 2018.  

4.  Next Steps. (5 min- CLO, SB)

  • o - CCWG will also need to determine if any changes to our report are significant or not.
    - If significant changes are recommended, CCWG-Accountability WS2 may require a second public consultation.
    - If changes are not significant, CCWG-Accountability WS2 can forward final recommendations to Chartering Organizations for approval, and then to the ICANN Board for consideration and adoption. Noting the timeline and Key milestone dates.

5.  AOB / Meeting Schedule (5 min- CLO)

August Dates:

  • Thursday 3rd @1900 UTC
  • Thursday 10th @ 0500 UTC
  • Thursday 17th @ 1300 UTC
  • Thursday 24th @ 1900 UTC
  • Thursday 31st @ 0500 UTC

Raw Captioning Notes

Disclaimer: This rough edit transcript, which may contain missing, misspelled or paraphrased words, is only provided for your immediate review and is not certified as verbatim and is not to be cited in any way. 


  • None

Action Items:

  • Steve: start 2 threads on mailing list, on both topics that were discussed today, ie Transparency item 4 – closing or opening meetings and calls, and Transparency item 5 – what to do with meeting minutes.
  • Staff: Send revised timeline to the list


  • Members of the subgroup are encouraged to participate in the discussions that will be submitted to the mailing list.

Documents Presented 

Chat Transcript

Brenda Brewer: (7/27/2017 07:39) Good day and welcome to WS2 SO/AC Accountability Subgroup Meeting #26 on 27 July 2017 @ 13:00 UTC!

  Brenda Brewer: (07:40) If you are not speaking, please mute your phone by pressing *6 (star 6).  This call is recorded.

  Brenda Brewer: (07:40) Reminder to all, please speak slowly and state your name before speaking for the Captioner.  Thank you!

  Captioner: (07:58) yes!!

  Brenda Brewer: (07:58) Thank you!

  Nathalie Vergnolle: (07:59) Good day! Bernie sends his apologies, he's asked me to fill in for him today as he is unable to attend.

  Herb Waye Ombuds: (08:00) Hi folks

  Steve DelBianco: (08:03) Nathalie and Brenda -- do you have my last email, which included latest report PDF?

  Steve DelBianco: (08:04) I think the Redline.pdf would be best to display

  Brenda Brewer: (08:05) Yes, Steve and you are presenter to move to correct page

  Herb Waye Ombuds: (08:08) ok

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (08:17) it's a matter of preferred practice, as appropriate for the entities purpose

  Steve DelBianco: (08:20) we are on page 6 of our document

  Farzaneh Badii: (08:20) it's not about sub group meetings. it's about stakeholder groups/constituency meetings.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (08:22) mute please CW

  Farzaneh Badii: (08:26) most favored best practices :)))

  avri doria: (08:27) so the caveat really says you can ignore this altogether

  avri doria: (08:28) and it  thus means very little.

  Farzaneh Badii: (08:28) well it's called good practices

  Farzaneh Badii: (08:28) there is nothing binding about it

  avri doria: (08:32) it is maybe normative if you want it to be normative

  avri doria: (08:32) this is much softer than than what the plenary approved.

  avri doria: (08:33) no problem

  avri doria: (08:34) i like a normative for opne

  Farzaneh Badii: (08:34) me too Avri

  Farzaneh Badii: (08:35) there is a caveat that can be used and have closed meetings by default

  avri doria: (08:36) i.e. they would like to flip the norm on its head.

  avri doria: (08:37) but there is an ICANn norm for openess

  Steve DelBianco: (08:37) To be clear, the ISPs say that the norm here is fine for F2F meetings.

  Farzaneh Badii: (08:37) so ISPCP doesnt mention anything about number 5. so they are comfortable with making closed meetings  transcripts public?

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (08:37) which is why I think we need to look at a small modification text, allowing for normative practices as formally adopted by "groups"  Greg

  Steve DelBianco: (08:38) But they would like calls to be normally closed

  avri doria: (08:38) and an ATRT set recommendation of an openess norm

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (08:38) indeed Avri

  Farzaneh Badii: (08:40) by default it should be open, if closed they should provide a reason. do their bylaws say otherwise?

  Christopher Wilkinson (CW): (08:44) CLO +1, but on an ad hoc basis with justification.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (08:45) can't seem to lower my hand sorry

  jorge villa (ASO): (08:49) normally the best practices are recommendations to follow if applicable or desired, but in any case they can act as a must, because being a must the best practies are turning into a rule to follow.

  avri doria: (08:49) i guess that means you are meant to speak.

  Christopher Wilkinson (CW): (08:52) Ithink we are getting there. I shall reveiw the document carefully and revert as necessary. Thankyou. CW

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (08:52) in that case it is just archived and a Member or Pub

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (08:53) I Record showing that the meeting was held and why exists... Members of course can have access to all records

  avri doria: (08:55) stop and start

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (08:55) or even a start, then whole meeting in camera then a record of the fact that the meeting is held still exists

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (08:57) time is against us today

  jorge villa (ASO): (08:59) for example, in the operational community there are some documents about good practices on routing (some of the have been published as RFCs), but these documments are recommendation to achive a good network performance and to avoid certain leaks in the routing system. But, the ISPs are free to follow them or not, and to find their own solutions to fix the routing troubles they can find. No one have to explain to the rest of the community why they are not following the best practice recommentdation. The daily operation will guide the ISPs into the best practices direction but never as "the rule to follow"

  Brenda Brewer: (08:59) will include the timeline slide in meeting notes email.

  Herb Waye Ombuds: (09:00) All the best everyone

  Farzaneh Badii: (09:00) bye everyone

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (09:01) bye 👋 for now... thanks everyone

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