Sub-group Members:   Anne Aikman-Scalese, Cheryl Langdon-Orr, David McAuley, Greg Shatan, Griffin Barnett, Harold Arcos, Herb Waye, Janet Shih Hajek, Kavouss Arasteh, Niels ten Oever, Robin Gross, Tatiana Tropina, Tijani Ben Jemaa   (13)

Observers/Guests:  Collin Kurre, Garrett Hinck, Jonathan Peyster

Staff:  Bernard Turcotte, Brenda Brewer, Elizabeth Andrews 

Apologies:  Bastiaan Goslings


 ** If your name is missing from attendance or apology, please send note to **




1. Administrivia - Roll call, absentees, SoIs, etc

2. Review of indivudual commenters in the highlights document

3. Review of Brazilian government comments

4. Review of Swiss government comments

5. Review of UK governments comments

6. AOB 



CART Disclaimer: This rough edit transcript, which may contain missing, misspelled or paraphrased words, is only provided for your immediate review and is not certified as verbatim and is not to be cited in any way. 


• Work on responses based on recurring themes.

The mandate of the group does not include suggesting any changes to the ICANN Bylaws

– As such any comments which would require changing the Bylaws cannot be accepted.

o Any comments about changing the hierarchy of core values etc. Is outside the scope of this group as it would require a change of the ICANN Bylaws.

o Any comments about changing the term “applicable law” Is outside the scope of this group as it would require a change of the ICANN Bylaws.

o Any comments about changing “could” to “should” in “could refer to any of the widely adopted Human Rights declarations....” Is outside the scope of this group as it would require a change of the ICANN Bylaws.

Action Items:



Participants asked to read the complete comments from the governments of Brazil, Switzerland and the UK for further discussions at the next meeting. 

Chat Transcript

  Brenda Brewer: (7/25/2017 13:08) Good day and welcome to WS2 Human Rights Subgroup Meeting #27 on 25 July 2017 @ 19:00 UTC!

  Brenda Brewer: (13:08) If you are not speaking, please mute your phone by pressing *6 (star 6).  This call is recorded.

  Brenda Brewer: (13:08) Reminder to all, please speak slowly and state your name before speaking for the Captioner.  Thank you!

  David McAuley: (13:59) dialing in

  Marie Fresch-CART Support: (13:59) wHO IS THE MAIN SPEAKER?

  Herb Waye Ombuds: (13:59) Hi everyone

  Brenda Brewer: (14:00) Niels ten Oever is the Rapporteur.

  Niels ten Oever: (14:00) That will me me Marie

  Brenda Brewer: (14:00) Thank you Anne!

  Tatiana Tropina: (14:00) Hi all

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:00) hi all

  Marie Fresch-CART Support: (14:01) Thank you

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (14:01) hello all

  David McAuley: (14:01) I am #3200

  Brenda Brewer: (14:01) Thank you, David!

  David McAuley: (14:03) I am joined by my interns, Garrett Hinck and Jonathan Peyster

  Niels ten Oever: (14:04)

  Tatiana Tropina: (14:04) this is definitely outside the remit of CCWG  - to interpret bylaws in this way

  Tatiana Tropina: (14:04) but I gather it was discussed on the last call

  Tatiana Tropina: (14:05) well ok - I read something that looked like a mindmap

  David McAuley: (14:05) I agree with Tatiana

  David McAuley: (14:06) I would agree if it said 'perceived conflict'

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:07) makes sense David

  Collin Kurre: (14:09) It might be useful to add page numbers to the google doc :)

  David McAuley: (14:26) bernie

  Tatiana Tropina: (14:29) David - agree. We have to clarify the position on Ruggie and state our rationale to avoid nisunderstandings.

  Tatiana Tropina: (14:29) *misunderstandings

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (14:31) @David -  essentially what I was suggesting

  Niels ten Oever: (14:32) We cannot impact that - it is indeed stated in the bylaws

  Tatiana Tropina: (14:33) exactly - we can not change the bylaws

  Tatiana Tropina: (14:33) reject :-)

  Niels ten Oever: (14:37) Can we get the previous document back?

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:39) agree David

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:40) :-) Tatiana

  Tatiana Tropina: (14:41) I am against

  Tatiana Tropina: (14:43) Agree with Greg. It's actually waaaay to broad

  David McAuley: (14:43) I agree with Greg. I see the term "customery etc: as different - we have agreed to maintain the bylaw compromoise as I understand it.

  Tatiana Tropina: (14:45) for me it's a language problem - I doubt we can explain the "applicable law with "oh this is the law which applies"

  Tatiana Tropina: (14:45) we have binding already....

  Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC): (14:45) ICANN Legal gave us the parameters of "applicable law.

  Tatiana Tropina: (14:45) I am not able to follow :)

  Tatiana Tropina: (14:46) Kavouss but they suggest vice versa - replace binds with applies

  Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC): (14:46)   I note that the GAC has proposed a high interest topic for Abu Dhabi which is directed at the limitations of the "applicable law" that results from ICANN's place of incorporation.  

  Collin Kurre: (14:48) Speaking to Brazill comment 2, I think "applies to" and "customary rules" both serve to water down the language and make it less concrete. Statutes, rules, regulations, and judicial opinions are all codified. Perhaps one could interpret customary rules and principles as falling under the etcetera, but including it specifically opens the door for loose interpretations in my mind

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:50) agree Greg

  Greg Shatan: (14:52) "Applicable law" is broad enough to embrace changes in the law.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:52) yep

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (14:52) 8 minutes left in call

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:52) indeed Tatiana

  Tatiana Tropina: (14:55) yes please

  Tatiana Tropina: (14:55) 5 min is nit enough for Ruggie

  Tatiana Tropina: (14:55) *not enough :-)

  Tatiana Tropina: (14:55) OMG my typing.

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (14:56) will publish shortly

  Bernard Turcotte - ICANN: (14:56) bye all

  Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC): (14:56) Thank you.

  David McAuley: (14:56) thanks all, good bye

  Robin Gross: (14:56) Thanks, Niels, and all.  Bye!

  Tatiana Tropina: (14:56) thanks a lot Niels and all - bye! see you next week!

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:56) dropped audio to join another ICANN call

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (14:56) bye

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