Sub-group Members:  Avri Doria, Cheryl Langdon-Orr, Farzaneh Badii, Jorge Villa, Kavouss Arasteh, Sebastien Bachollet, Sivasubramanian M, Steve Del Bianco, Tom Dale

Staff:  Karen Mulberry, Yvette Guigneaux

Apologies:  Alan Greenberg, Greg Shatan

** If your name is missing from attendance or apology, please send note to **




0.  Call Administration  (2 min CLO)

1. Review of any AI's from call #22 on February 23rd  (2 min) CLO) see[] 

Action Items:

  •   Everyone to go through the document when they get it, vs doing it on the call, and have proper comments for the call.
  •   All, please advise the rapporteurs if you will be present at the face to face meeting in Copenhagen so we can plan the presentation of our document.

2. Any Updates: (3 min CLO )

3. Discussion, current DRAFT documentations  readings and review.  (45 min FB/SdB) 

a) Review and discuss (as 2nd reading for the WT) the Consolidated Draft Report - (40-55 mins SDB)  Intention is for a clean version of this draft to be sent to the CCWG for discussion at the Copenhagen meeting on March 10th after our meeting/discussion.

Further to Version 1.3 being distributed for your review by  Steve Del Bianco on March 1st with mark up copy of word doc and PDF docs/PDF for version 1.3, dated 28-Feb-2017:

With added previously provided responses from the RSSAC.

Added a mention of the Bylaws required independent review of AC/Sos other than the GAC.  (page 3)

Added a placeholder for Executive Summary (Draft proposed text for ES  will be reviewed in our meeting) 

see the Google Doc Draft 1.3 at[] 

4. Next Meeting and future Meeting schedule  (2 min CLO) 

   10 March full day CCWG Face to Face at ICANN #58 Copenhagen

   23rd March 0500 UTC

   30th March 1300 UTC

see Master Schedule at[]

5. AOB and review of any AI's.  (3 min CLO)

Notes (including relevant parts of chat)

8 Participants at start of call.

0.  Call Administration 

Cheryl Langdon-Orr - Seun audio only. any updates to SOIs? (none). Any changes to agenda? (none).

1. Review of any AI's from call #21 on February 16th  

Cheryl Langdon-Orr - asked for more contributions to the documents. Thanks to all for those.

2. Any Updates:

Cheryl Langdon-Orr - ? (none). Plenary met a few hours ago and would encourage all who did not attend to listen to the recordings.

3. Discussion, current DRAFT documentations, readings and review.      

Cheryl Langdon-Orr - Looking for polishing contributions. Looking forward to submitting the report for 3 March so it can have a first reading on 10 March.

         a) Data Capture documentation of input materials from SOAC's         

Farzaneh Badii - there is nothing new in this document and it has been included in the consolidated document by SDB.

         b) Review and discuss (as 1st reading for the WT) the Consolidated Draft Report 

Steve DelBianco - As promised the consolidated document was distributed on Monday with V1.0. 24 hours ago we generated a V1.1 version. NPOC members have been updating the document but not all there comments are consistent between themselves - so this seems to be their contribution if they have not answered the questionnaire. Only two left have not answered RySG and RSSAC. SB asked where he shoud focus Ombudsman related issues and have pointed him to the relevant sections. The most important part for this group is to come to consensus on the recommendations.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): I would be doing the Consolodated doc in reverse  to ensure the leat discussed part  get more time for discussion, but I see that is 'just me'

Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): At least 2 of the three threads have been well covered in the oast                      so we should be ;-)  able to cover those off almost 'pro forma'

Steve DelBianco - Any general comments? (none). Going through the recommendations (starting page 9). 

Alan Greenberg - Should document may be best to say SHOULD CONSIDER DOCUMENTING given it may not be applciable to all those groups.

Steve DelBianco - The word CONSIDER is included earlier in the text and could be added in each recommendation. Could also include WHERE APPLICABLE (support no objection).

Farzaneh Badii - Re AG points - challenging results of the election is fine but DECISONS seems much too broad. 

Steve DelBianco - These were the questions used in the questionnaire and the SOACs have responded to. given we are including WHERE APPLICABLE would allow an out anyways.

Farzaneh Badii: that’s fine then 

Tatiana Tropina: Same concerns as FB and AG - maybe we can ask them WHICH decisions can be challenged. It’s up to SOACs to decide which ones can be and clearly document this. On the second recommendation - have to be clear it is WHERE APPLICABLE.

Steve DelBianco - (repeating the caveats in front of every recommendation).

Alan Greenberg: do not share cocnerns of FB and TT because of the caveats and lets not wordsmith this now.

Farzaneh Badii: but then they might cherry pick 

Farzaneh Badii: and say it's not applicable here or there

Tatiana Tropina: Oh this is it.  I meant type of decisions and Alan means processes 

Steve DelBianco - next transparency on page 13 - 6 recommendations that have been well discussed. Comments?

Farzaneh Badii - re rec. 6 all comments including correspondence - 

Steve DelBianco - this is current practice and making it a best practice.

Alan Greenberg - there is some correspondence that is confidential and cannot be published.

Steve DelBianco - seeking input on this to fix. Onto participation page 19 - 6 recommendations. (no comments). Onto outreach. 

Alan Greenberg - Re rec 4 - are minutes and or recordings of closed meeting should be accessible to members?

Steve DelBianco - correct.

Alan Greenberg - again we need exceptions - sometimes the ALAC discusses individuals for nominations and this cannot be published.

Steve DelBianco - will add subject to exceptions and confidential matters. Onto Outreach recommendations page 23 - 5 recommendations. (no comments). Last section Update to procedures 1 recommendation on page 25.

Farzaneh Badii - Outreach groups have to be small or you cannot decide anything.

Seun Ojedeji:  do not agree on putting a size comment in.

Steve DelBianco - insert something along the lines of "appropriate size'. On to tract 2 Mutual Accountability Table - our conclusion is it is not recommended for formal implementation. Any objections to this recommendation (none). Onto Tract 3 - Does IRP apply to SOAC activities (page 29) - is not applicable and should not be made applicable. Any objections (none). Will take these comments and circulate a new version in the next few days.

Alan Greenberg - there will be minor updates to my contribution but these should not be critical if they do not make it into the first reading document.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr - Second reading of this document will be made on the 2 March call. Important to have good participation. Action Item - Would ask everyone to go through the document when they get it and have proper comments for the call. Also if you will be present at the face to face please advise.

Farzaneh Badii: I will send reminders to the list to read the doc


4. Next Meeting and future Meeting schedule            

           • 02 March @ 05:00 UTC           

           • 10 March full day CCWG F2F at ICANN58 Copenhagen           

           • Other dates and times after CPH Meeting will be arranged by staff TBC

5. AOB and review of any AI's. 




Documents Presented 

Chat Transcript

  Yvette Guigneaux: (3/1/2017 18:41) Welcome all to the SO/AC Accountability Subgroup Meeting #23   |  2 March 2017 @ 05:00 UTC!

  Yvette Guigneaux: (20:55) hello everyone

  Yvette Guigneaux: (20:55) Kavouss - do you need a dial out?

  Kavouss Arasteh: (20:55) Yevette Hi

  Kavouss Arasteh: (20:55) Pls note that I am waiting to be dialed up

  Yvette Guigneaux: (20:56) doing it right now sir  =)

  Kavouss Arasteh: (20:59) THANKS CONNECTED

  Steve DelBianco: (21:00) Yvette and Karen -- do you have the PDF that Farzaneh circulated most recently?

  Yvette Guigneaux: (21:01) hi Steve - i have the one that Farzaneh sent - was there more then one?

  Kavouss Arasteh: (21:02) Cheryl , pls note that apart from co rapporteurs only 5 persons attening the call 

  Steve DelBianco: (21:02) that's the one

  Yvette Guigneaux: (21:02) copy that

  avri doria: (21:05) will be there

  Yvette Guigneaux: (21:07) draft on screen - scrolling available if need be

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (21:09) Yes we need to circulate a clean version of our Draft  to the CCWG on or before March 3rd...

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (21:10) I suspect so Steve  and that is OK  for us to add their responses in when or if we get it

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (21:11) test

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): (21:11) hmmm  what I am typing is not appearing in at least my chat  my connectivity is low/ compromised

  Yvette Guigneaux: (21:12) we hear and see you just fine Cheryl

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2: (21:14) I have recinnected  it's n doubt o my end  AC is showing orange now not red re connectivity as it wa before :-(

  Kavouss Arasteh: (21:15) pls advise, where the Draft Rec. are tabled

  Yvette Guigneaux: (21:15) page 6 - on screen

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2: (21:15) Page 6 onscreen  you al have scroll control

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2: (21:16) I agree headers  will be useful  Steve  YES

  Farzaneh Badii: (21:16) I think little headers is a great idea

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2: (21:17) We will need to update the Exec Sumarry  as well Steve  from 21 Practices  to 24

  Steve DelBianco: (21:18) Got it Cheryl

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2: (21:20) Good point to pick up in the Exec Summ  Yes Steve

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2: (21:21) Some WT's may recmend bylaw changes we do not see any in our work outcomes

  Karen Mulberry: (21:26) All WS2 items will be maintained on the WS2 wiki page

  Karen Mulberry: (21:27) Just like all WS1 items and the final report are retained on that wiki page

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2: (21:28) Thx Karen well noted

  Kavouss Arasteh: (21:29) that souds good to report the case in the Ex. Sum

  Kavouss Arasteh: (21:30) sounds

  Farzaneh Badii: (21:31) yes

  Steve DelBianco: (21:31) SO and ACs provide an annual report on what they have done during the year to enhance their accountability and where they might have fallen short and what they did to overcome it.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2: (21:32) Seems good to me

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2: (21:32) AGree to add

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2: (21:32) yes Sec 1

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2: (21:34) hmmm

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2: (21:34) sounds heavy work for limited reward to me

  Farzaneh Badii: (21:35) that's true :)

  Farzaneh Badii: (21:37) yes we have to be careful. true. sounds like too much work

  Steve DelBianco: (21:37) 5.     SO/AC/Subgroups should publish an annual report on what they have done during the prior year to improve accountability, transparency, and participation, describing where they might have fallen short and what they plan for future improvements.

  Steve DelBianco: (21:37) Farzi -- I just re-phrased the annual report suggestion (above).  Is that good for you?

  Farzaneh Badii: (21:37) yes thank you Steve

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2: (21:39) At this stage I think oublishing reports annually will be inspiration enough ;-)

  Farzaneh Badii: (21:39) that's fine. no one wants to get an accountability award :)

  Sebastien (ALAC): (21:40) Frazi you wil get one with your co-rapporteur ;)

  Farzaneh Badii: (21:40) :)))

  Yvette Guigneaux: (21:40) on screen

  Yvette Guigneaux: (21:41) scrolling available if needed

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2: (21:41) :-)  Seb

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2: (21:42) Agree Steve...

  Farzaneh Badii: (21:44) we have 25 "best practices" now

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2: (21:44) Noted   Farzi  and a good number that is :-)

  Farzaneh Badii: (21:44) :)

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2: (21:46) indeed Steve

  Steve DelBianco: (21:49) I am wondering how we should report our percentage complete, for purposes of the dashboard...

  Steve DelBianco: (21:49) Annex listing participants and number of meetings?

  Kavouss Arasteh: (21:51) Was my suggestion to cross reference SO /AC and sub groups cross referenced

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2: (21:51) I was using the percentages as outlined by the Dashboard  is set up

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2: (21:52) I beleive some of that is in the dashbord anyway

  avri doria: (21:56) such a reference in an exec summary seems unusual, but it is not the end of the world.

  Steve DelBianco: (21:57) I will add a reference to page 4

  Steve DelBianco: (21:57) Am just too tired to argue about this

  Kavouss Arasteh: (21:58) It was a legitimate suggestion to simply add : See Page 4 OR as listed in page 4.

  avri doria: (21:58) Steve that has become my approach to so many things in this process.

  Kavouss Arasteh: (21:58) I insist to this course of actzion to be taken

  Steve DelBianco: (22:00) Note that I will add a reference to list on page 4 to the Exec Summary.

  Farzaneh Badii: (22:00) oh we are done for awhile

  Kavouss Arasteh: (22:00) tks Steve

  Yvette Guigneaux: (22:00) safe travels everyone  =)

  avri doria: (22:00) bye, and happy travels

  Farzaneh Badii: (22:00) I won't make it. everyone safe travels

  Yvette Guigneaux: (22:00) see you in Copenhagen

  Yvette Guigneaux: (22:01) you will be missed Farzaneh

  Karen Mulberry: (22:01) Take care! Thank you all

  Farzaneh Badii: (22:01) Thank you Yvette

  • No labels