Sub-group Members:
Observers/Guests:
Staff:
Apologies: Matthew Shears, Paul Rosenzweig
** If your name is missing from attendance or apology, please send note to acct-staff@icann.org **
Transcript
- Word Doc
Recording
mp3 Replay
Agenda
- Welcome
- Questionnaire
- Time Period for Responses to the Questionnaire
- Hypothetical #1 (taken from “Influence of ICANN’s Existing Jurisdiction” document, Section C )
- Small Group Review of ICANN’s Past and Current Litigation
- Litigations: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/governance/litigation-en
- Draft Summary Form: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1efkQOvSwW-2m1T_u6anFMVUeiHoO6P4PR3-0mWlU_Cs/edit?usp=sharing
- Sign-Up Sheet: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oo9oDJuuxFz1UUNaBfHeor7HPhJ5XcRHFTq3hjRltOM/edit?usp=sharing
- “Influence of ICANN’s Existing Jurisdiction” document, Section C
- AOB
- Adjourn
Notes
Documents Presented
Chat Transcript
Brenda Brewer: (1/30/2017 12:33) Good day all and welcome to Jurisdiction Subgroup Meetging #19 on 30 January 2017 @ 19:00 UTC!
Barbara Wanner: (12:56) Brenda, I am 2026173155. Thanks
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (12:58) good day all
Greg Shatan: (12:58) We also have "apologies" from Erich Schweighofer.
David McAuley (RySG): (13:00) Hi Brenda, I am 4154
Mathieu Weill: (13:01) Hello everyone
Brenda Brewer: (13:01) Thank you Barbara and David!
CW: (13:02) Hello. CW
Herb Waye Ombuds: (13:03) Greetings all
Wale Bakare: (13:03) Hello everyone
Jeff Neuman: (13:03) its the 31st in Asia :)
Philip Corwin: (13:09) hello all. Apologies for late arrival. And I am the 5316 number
avri doria: (13:09) not don't care, but seems ok.
David McAuley (RySG): (13:09) Socratic method - very interesting model
Philip Corwin: (13:09) Ok with Socratic, so long as it omits the hemlock ;-)
avri doria: (13:10) sure, give all the time people need.
David McAuley (RySG): (13:11) I ilke the idea of not extending and looking at replies as they come in
John Laprise: (13:12) the longer the better to allow participation and knowledge of the issue.
Tom Dale (ACIG GAC Secretariat): (13:13) Where will the questionnaire be posted?
Tom Dale (ACIG GAC Secretariat): (13:14) OK thanks.
Mathieu Weill: (13:14) A quick work plan note : Mid Apr is 2 months away from Johannesburg. Might be difficult to be in a possition to have a 1st reading by then
David McAuley (RySG): (13:15) Good point Mathieu
Mathieu Weill: (13:15) Not that it is a deadline, but it's important to manage expectations on timeline
avri doria: (13:18) if we work with the replies coming it, then finishing up after the 17th might be quick. and we can make a plea for early repsonses becasue of the driving schedule.
avri doria: (13:22) bernie's hand seems to have been up fr a while.
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (13:23) now down - thanks Avri
David McAuley (RySG): (13:24) Or perhaps the discussion doesn't need a hypotehical, maybe it is more general
avri doria: (13:25) does the nationality of the plaintiff feed in any complexity?
David McAuley (RySG): (13:26) I would think the plaintiff's nationality is not that important, rather the court is
Milton: (13:26) greetings all, sorry I had to be late
avri doria: (13:26) it was a genuine question, not a leading one (or socratic) one
David McAuley (RySG): (13:26) Socratic welcome
Milton: (13:27) as long as we don't make Avri drink hemlock
David McAuley (RySG): (13:29) That is good -
David McAuley (RySG): (13:30) Agreed, good outcome - ICANN action tested in a separate forum and found to be ok
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (13:32) Time check - 28 minutes left in call
Philip Corwin: (13:34) On point 4, if the ruling is against ICANN and ICANN belives the ruling to be erroneous, it has a right of appeal.
Mathieu Weill: (13:34) Who is judging on correctly or wrongly decided ?
avri doria: (13:34) it is a possible good thing to mark all the points in the hypotheticals where some action by ICANN and its Board & EC
avri doria: (13:34) is precipitated
Philip Corwin: (13:36) IMH< the key consideration is that ICANN is HQ'd in a jurisdiction with a clear commitment to the rule of law, and that any party with standing can initiate litigation regardless of their home jurisdiction.
avri doria: (13:36) Philip sometimes easier said than done
Mathieu Weill: (13:37) We should check how many litigations in court were initiated by parties outside the US
Mathieu Weill: (13:38) (to check how Phil's requirement translates into practice)
avri doria: (13:38) As long as someone from the 7 countries does not need to appear in court, it might be ok.
Philip Corwin: (13:38) @Avri--challenges of bringing litigation, espevcially costs, are hardly unique to US
Philip Corwin: (13:39) @Avri--depositions are generaly allowed if a witness is unavailable
avri doria: (13:39) second class justice?
Wale Bakare: (13:40) Would the decision different in either case?
avri doria: (13:41) i don't know, but i understand some view a physical presence as sometimes perfereable in terrms of making an appeal.
avri doria: (13:42) i admit i am just exploring hypotheticals about the hypotheticals
Wale Bakare: (13:43) In physical's emotions can get involved and perhaps could impact on the decision
avri doria: (13:43) often a good thing
Philip Corwin: (13:43) regardless of the governing law, the court's ruling might be pro-ICANN from one judge and anti-ICANN from another. There is no way to guarantee 100% consistency in any juducial forum. That's why there are rights of appeal.
avri doria: (13:43) they are part of the equation
Mathieu Weill: (13:44) That's right Greg
Mathieu Weill: (13:45) Having ICANN accountable to other governing laws might actually bring additional accountability, for instance related to privacy
Herb Waye Ombuds: (13:47) I'm in LA for the week and just got collared for another committment.... gotta run. regards all
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (13:47) time check 13 minutes left
Mathieu Weill: (13:51) This is a great list of factors to compare jurisdiction if need be
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (13:53) hand David
avri doria: (13:53) do foriegn nationals still have the full protection of rule of American law?
David McAuley (RySG): (13:54) was i not heard
Mathieu Weill: (13:55) Good suggestion David
Wale Bakare: (13:55) Just for confirmation as i believe the deadline for the public comments is 17th April?
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (13:55) Time check 5 minutes leftg
Mathieu Weill 2: (13:56) BTW Greg, this notion of alternative facts could be disputed ;-)
Mathieu Weill 2: (13:56) Just wanted to mention that it had been noted
avri doria: (13:57) fact is such an overloaded variable.
David McAuley (RySG): (13:57) Thanks for that Mathieu - I need to get active on my reviews
Philip Corwin: (13:57) Facts are oftyen in dispute in litigation, with the court being the ultimate finder of facts. It finds the facts, and then it applies the relevant law.
avri doria: (13:59) yeah Sundays are no longer avialalbe for ICANN volunteering. too much organizing and protesting to be done.
Wale Bakare: (14:00) "Just for confirmation as i believe the deadline for the public comments is 17th April?
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (14:00) correct
avri doria: (14:00) yeah but sooner is better
Wale Bakare: (14:00) Thanks
avri doria: (14:01) me too
Philip Corwin: (14:01) I will be at NCPH as well
Mathieu Weill 2: (14:01) Thanks Greg !
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (14:02) Greg need the cover note for the questionnaire
David McAuley (RySG): (14:02) Thanks Greg, Bernie, and all
Wale Bakare: (14:02) Thanks Greg, bye all
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (14:02) bye all
Mathieu Weill 2: (14:02) TTY all soon !
avri doria: (14:02) bye
