Sub-group Members:   Alan Greenberg, Cheryl Langdon-Orr, Farzaneh Badii, Greg Shatan, Herb Way, Isaac Maposa, Julf Helsingius, Kavouss Arasteh, Olga Cavalli, Sebastien Bachollet, Steve DelBianco, Tatiana Tropina, Tom Dale

Staff:  Bernie Turcotte, Brenda Brewer, Karen Mulberry, Lars Hoffmann, Yvette Guigneaux

Apologies: Rinalia Abdul Rahim, Stephen Deerhake, Matthew Shears

** If your name is missing from attendance or apology, please send note to **




0. Call Admin and Roll Call / Apologies
1. Welcome - Opening Remarks
2. Review (brief) of last call #8
3. Discussion Topics
- Second Review and Discussion on Draft text of questions to be sent to SO/ACs
- Reviewing the paper provided by staff on SO/AC accountability
4. AOB



1. Welcome - Opening Remarks 

2. Review (brief) of last call #8 

3. Discussion Topics

a) Second Review and Discussion on Draft text of questions to be sent to SO/ACs 

- Review of the designated community members - noted that this has been captured in the Google doc according and lists groups according to the bylaws.  The document is 
located at 
Our Google Doc is at[] 

- Raised some concerns over the questions drafted as they may be difficult to answer for some groups, as there is a need to understand the terminology i.e. what does it mean to participate.

- Might be a need to consider to customize the questions based on the SO/AC.  It may be a better solution to provide a prefix to the questions so that the group 
can respond as it applies to them. Customizing questions may make the responses hard to collate and if a questions does not apply, then the organization does 
not need to reply.  there is also a need to have fee text questions too.  It should be noted that e
ach question should be interpreted in the context applicable to that AC/SO.

- May need to revisit the use of the term designated community and explain what we mean when using that term.  Might be a better approach to use a clear description 
from the bylaws as to the community and who they represent.  

- Need to also look at if each group is accountable to the global stakeholder community

- Need to look at restated questions prepared by Giovanni and consider approach to take with the revisions 

b) Reviewing the paper provided by staff on SO/AC accountability 

- Discussion of the contents of the staff report, it was noted that the staff report does not go into a deep dive as to the SO/AC accountability documents and procedures that exist today.

- can consider asking the SO.AC Chairs if their support staff cold provide each groups accountability documents

Agreed to use Giovanni's version of the questions with revisions to be made based on today's discussion 

4. AOB 

Next call scheduled for 20 October at 0500 UTC

Documents Presented

Chat Transcript

 Brenda Brewer:Good day all and welcome to SO/AC Accountability Subgroup Meeting #9 on 13 October 2016 @ 19:00 UTC!

  KAVOUSS Arasteh:Dear Brenda

  KAVOUSS Arasteh:Hi

  KAVOUSS Arasteh:I am waiting to be called

  Brenda Brewer:Calling you now Kavouss

  Julf Helsingius:Good evening!

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):Hello everyone   WE WILL START SHORTLY

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):sorry caps in error

  Tatiana Tropina:hi all

  Brenda Brewer:Please identify name if phone number is listed as 7035173863.  Thank you!

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):Please remember ti mute if your not speaking ...  thanks

  Steve DelBianco [CSG]:Designated communities are in our Google Doc at pages 3-4

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2:There was a pprevious call to customise the questions  

  Steve DelBianco [CSG]:Our Google Doc is at  

  Farzaneh Badii:I have difficulty hearing Kavouss . might be from my side

  Julf Helsingius:Yes, pretty hard to hear

  Julf Helsingius:Yes, pretty hard to hear

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2:Kavous  we are not able to understand you well

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2: it is as if you are too loud  or distorted  on my audio

  Farzaneh Badii:I don't hear anything now

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2:Try again please Kavoous

  Brenda Brewer:calling Kavouss back.  stand by please

  KAVOUSS Arasteh:line is interrupred

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2:OK  thaanks  Brenda

  Yvette Guigneaux:Kavouss - if you would like in the meantime feel free to type your comments in the chat

  Yvette Guigneaux:That is until Brenda is able to reach  you

  Steve DelBianco [CSG]:in the Bylaws, ASO: “ASO shall be the entity established by the Memorandum of Understanding [2004] between ICANN and the Number Resource Organization (“NRO”), an organization of the existing RIRs”

  Steve DelBianco [CSG]:Agreeing with Alan, since each AC/SO is a bit different

  Steve DelBianco [CSG]:Kavouss -- we are asking for published and unpublished procedures

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2:Again I note that we have had previous  suggestions to customise  more for each group...   SO  it seems that with the discussions  atm   Alan and Kaous  etc.,   That we *DO*  need to customise now and loook again after that wrk is done...

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2:apologies for the typos

  Alan Greenberg:I disagree and wqill say so when i AM ALLOWED

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2:OK  Alan noted  you were cut off and  Farzi will come backe to you  *sorry about the interution

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2:interuption

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2:so a Prreamble  of  "to the best as you can in the context of of your AC  or SO" PLEASE RESPND TO THE FOLLOWING   Alan  (or some such?

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2:again  sorry re CAPS

  Julf Helsingius:I agree with Alan's approach

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2: sticky key it seems

  Alan Greenberg:Sorry for caps at end of last msg. Was an errant Caps Lock.

  Alan Greenberg:Each question should be interpreted in the context aplicable to that AC/SO.

  Steve DelBianco [CSG]:the only terms that need to be customized are "designated community" and "eligible"

  Julf Helsingius:yes, we can hear you

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2:YES   we hear you

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2:your concerns are nted Kavous... hopefully your prediction of faiure in usefullnss of response will not come to fruition, but we 'can but try'  IMO  

  Steve DelBianco [CSG]:in Bylaws, GNSO "Open to registries, registrars, commercial stakeholders (BC, I{C, ISPCP), non-commercial stakeholders."

  Farzaneh Badii:do we need to change the term designated community?

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2:So  avoid the "designated Community Reference then Greg>..

  Olga Cavalli:Hi apologies for being late

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2:noted Olga...  thanks for joining

  Greg Shatan:We need to deal with both the actual members, and the larger group to which each SO/AC is "open".

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2:I agree Greg,  and of course even with the  example of the ccNSO  they have always made great efforts to include and be open to engagement of the NON Member ccNSO Managers

  Steve DelBianco [CSG]:@Cheryl -- then teh ccNSO can respond by saying they are open to non-members too.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2:Yes   tht is what we need to tease out  wth our enquiry

  Greg Shatan:So the question is how is ccNSO accountable to (a) the members, and (b) all ccNSOs.

  Greg Shatan:Hard to understand Kavouss,due to peak gain distortion.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2:Yes  Greg indeed

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2:And of course we al need the full CCWG  also will review our final  questions

  Greg Shatan:In that case, should an SG respond as to GNSO accountability or the accountability of that SG?

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2:  Thans  Alan well noted

  Greg Shatan:Or should they respond as to all of the SG/Cs?

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2:I thought Giovani's reformulations  got  reasonable support   at the last call and am happy to proceed next cut of text from tht model


  Farzaneh Badii:I am sorry Kavouss. Shall I send my response in an email?

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2:Perhaps  we should move to the staff report now then?

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2:I not sure I understand your point Kavous  audio seems distorted  can you type your points here please  so we can review your concerns more  effectivly (and note them accuratly)

  Steve DelBianco [CSG]:well, I have been called crazy before ...

  Alan Greenberg:Probably not as often as I have.  ;-)

  Steve DelBianco [CSG]:Staff -- can you please identify the source of those 4 definitions on page 2.  (for Kavouss)

  Farzaneh Badii:it's the work ogf Jan Scholte

  Steve DelBianco [CSG]:@ Farzi -- as such, were those 4 definitions part of our CCWG Final Proposal?

  Tatiana Tropina:I can hardly hear :(

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2:Farzi noted the point I was going to make Kavous...  We need to be cogniscent that this document is a staff drfted compilation of *some* reference materials  and this is our first reading of ot.

  Farzaneh Badii:it seems like it was

  Steve DelBianco [CSG]:@Kavouss -- those 4 NTIA stress tests gave rise to the SOAC accountability thread in WS2

  Farzaneh Badii:but it's for ICANN. we discussed this Steve with Matt Shears in another meeting . the baby blue font insertion by Matt

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2:I need to move to my next cll  Sorry  Bye for now

  Isaac Maposa:Bye all

  Tatiana Tropina:thanks co-chairs, bye all

  Julf Helsingius:Thanks and bye!

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO) 2:bye

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