Sub-group Members:   Alan Greenberg, Avri Doria, Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez, Cheryl Langdon-Orr, George Sadowsky, Herb Waye, Jeff Neuman, Jordan Carter, Julf Helsinguis, Klaus Stoll, Pam Little, Philip Corwin, Samantha Eisner, Sonigitu Ekpe

Staff:  Berry Cobb, Brenda Brewer, Charla Chambley, Karen Mulberry, Yvette Guigneaux

Apologies:  \

**Please let Brenda know if your name has been left off the list (attendees or apologies).**




  • Agenda Review - JTC

  • SOI - JTC

  • Action Items from previous meeting - JTC

    • Chair’s letter to ICANN CEO

  • Staff paper on staff accountability (20 Min) - JTC

    • Walk through of paper - Karen

    • Actions arising from the paper

    • Request a staff / HR presentation?

    • Open Questions?

  • dot registry staff accountability issues (20 Min) - AD

  • Next steps - work plan - AD

    • Timeline

    • Hyderabad or Copenhagen draft timeframe

    • Action items for next week

  • AOB - AD

    • Open & Safe staff participation in the group


1. Review Action Items from previous meeting

        o Chair’s letter to ICANN CEO

Reviewed reply from Goran to the request to have staff participant.  Request to meet with Co-Chairs in Hyderabad and to possibility invite Goran to attend a subgroup meeting before Hyderabad.  However the Co-Chair's may not be able to arrange such a call and will meet with Goran and provide an update to the group and then schedule a call with 
him and the group after Hyderabad 

2. Staff paper on staff accountability

Overview of the staff paper and review of what materials might be needed for follow up to address the two WS1 items noted in the scope section.  Group to 
develop further questions for ICANN to address and respond

3. dot registry staff accountability issues[]

Used the case as an example - Reviewed the dot registry paper and discussed the issues as it relates to staff accountability.

Noted: Obligations to the bylaws, accountability, non discrimination, transparency.  What are the expectations the panel held for staff accountability and transparency.

Noted that the Board may have discussed the issue at its recent Board retreat as there were issue raised on transparency and staff accountability.

4. Next steps - work plan

o Timeline

Discussion - formulate questions to staff of existence and content of various policies, other questions that come from staff paper, third set of questions from the dot registry example.

Jordan to provide first draft of questions.

o Hyderabad or Copenhagen draft timeframe

Discussion - timing of work, more on the longer timeframe and anticipate having draft report for Copenhagen .  Will use this to schedule meetings going back to manage the work

5. AOB

o Open & Safe staff participation in the group

Letter to Goran included the ask to have staff participate openly in the group discussion. 

Raised question - aren't staff stakeholders too?  Can staff speak freely or are there constraints 

Next meeting 13 October

Documents Presented

Chat Transcript

Brenda Brewer:Good day all and welcome to WS2 Staff Accountability Subgroup Meeting #2 on 29 September 2016 @ 19:00 UTC!

  Sonigitu:Good evening from Calabar, Nigeria.

  Julf Helsingius (GNSO NCPH NCA):Good evening

  Herb Waye Ombuds:Hello everyone

  Herb Waye Ombuds:Cheryl we have to stop meeting like this :-)

  Sonigitu:@Herb, why do we need to stop meeting like this:-)

  Herb Waye Ombuds:Looking forward to Hyderabad to see everyone f2f

  Sonigitu:But not all can make it at this time.

  Julf Helsingius (GNSO NCPH NCA):Unfortunately I won't be there

  Sonigitu:Still searching for travel support.


  Carlos:do we have audio?

  Sonigitu:audio is poor

  Philip Corwin:What is the participant passcode for this meeting?? Operator won't connect me without it

  Carlos:nay I ask for a phone bridge? i have no audio

  Julf Helsingius (GNSO NCPH NCA):we can hear you OK

  Pam Little:I can hear.

  Karen Mulberry:I can hear her

  Julf Helsingius (GNSO NCPH NCA):Works fine to here (Europe)

  Philip Corwin:can staff please answer my question on the passcode. it was not in the calendar invite

  Jordan Carter (.nz): ; tel://1-719-867-0497,*,,5263384535#

  Avri Doria:what i said:

  Philip Corwin:thanks Jordan

  George Sadowsky:silence, cannot hera

  George Sadowsky:hear

  Jordan Carter (.nz):i thinkthat last string of numbers is hte pass code, Phi

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):Now tere is silence

  Julf Helsingius (GNSO NCPH NCA):now I only hear sighs

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): Jordan???

  Avri Doria:that while we wnted to speak befoe hyderabad in an audio conference

  Carlos:i can hear Jordan

  George Sadowsky:I can hear you Jordan

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):we can now

  Carlos:but no avri

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):YES

  Julf Helsingius (GNSO NCPH NCA):yes

  Carlos:hear Jordan

  Herb Waye Ombuds:i can hear everyone

  Avri Doria:now it seems like a good idea for Jordan and me to meet with him in Hyderabad and then after schedule a teleconference.

  Jordan Carter (.nz):i'm speaking now and then but can't be heard

  Avri Doria:i can hear you jordan

  Jordan Carter (.nz):let me get a dial out

  Karen Mulberry:I can hear Jordan

  Carlos:Jordan is ok

  Carlos:no avri though

  Avri Doria:i think most people heard me.

  Julf Helsingius (GNSO NCPH NCA):Jordan: we can hear both you and Avri

  Julf Helsingius (GNSO NCPH NCA):yes

  Yvette Guigneaux:We can hear you Jordan

  Carlos:Avri ok now

  Yvette Guigneaux:We hear you as well Avri

  Herb Waye Ombuds:I hear both of you

  Yvette Guigneaux:Yes I hear both of you

  Avri Doria:anyone that doesn't hear me please chaeck red

  Brenda Brewer:I am calling out to Jordan

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):there may be a delay  for Jordan   if he is just on AC  it is not always  in perfect synch

  Yvette Guigneaux:We hear you loud and clear Avri

  Carlos:good letter, dont expect much from him though

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):fine  

  Philip Corwin:Optimism is the triumph of hope over experience ;-)

  Jordan Carter (.nz):my adobe crashed, my connectivity is dodgy, but I am now listening

  Jordan Carter (.nz):I think I should just listen, so sorry Avri and all

  Julf Helsingius (GNSO NCPH NCA):The paper seems to emphasize ICANN's accountability towards staff, rather than staff accountability towards the community

  Avri Doria:it would be good to include all possible likns on the wiki, so please send them.

  Jordan Carter (.nz):I think the info here will be helpful, just getting head around the parameters

  Jordan Carter (.nz):Karen: can a supplementary research task be commissioned that's a bit specific - i.e. if we develop a list of specific questions or asks, would that be OK?

  Jordan Carter (.nz):+1 Avri

  Jordan Carter (.nz):in many cases, staff somewhere in ICANN will know the answers easily, so thanks for that Karen

  Alan Greenberg:Sorry to be late.

  Jordan Carter (.nz):(they'll know where stuff is, or that it doesn't exist :-) )

  Avri Doria:

  Jordan Carter (.nz):to my mind, and without necessarily agreeing or not agreeing with the ruling, what does the community and the company expect re staff acct and transparency and following the bylaws

  Jordan Carter (.nz):i basically took the same lesson as Avri just described

  Jeff Neuman 2:I do

  Jordan Carter (.nz):it's working!

  Jeff Neuman 2:agreed

  Jordan Carter (.nz):+100 with Cheryl - this is not a forum to make decisions or try and hold people to account for things in the past. We have zero mandate for that and mixing that with how to design what comes next would render both useless

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):I may have gone for  metaphore record there

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):SOOO   True  Jeff

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):and  sadly  Some Boards  can get lazy...

  Jordan Carter (.nz):the Board's job is not to review decisions of the staff team. It's got a real job in requiring the right policy framework so the organisation behaves in the way it expects

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):if they do of course welll the EC   can come into play from now on

  Jordan Carter (.nz):my biggest concern with the Board is that it *does* get involved in too much detail.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):and there is the difference between a Gvernance Board and an Operational one

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):Great  Thanks George

  Jeff Neuman 2:Thanks George

  Jordan Carter (.nz):thanks George

  Jordan Carter (.nz):I really think we can do some good work here

  Jordan Carter (.nz):i have to apologise now

  Jordan Carter (.nz):and go to my meeting

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):Bye Jordan

  George Sadowsky:It would be very useful to get any questions or issues for discussion at leat a week prior to Hyderabad so that they can be pput on the agenda there.

  Jordan Carter (.nz):[i am happy to spend an hour later today teasing out some questions, and putting them in a google doc, and sharing with the list to start a dialogue]

  Carlos:is the google docs already out? please send the link

  Carlos:@AVri: thanks for your answer and expect a google doc with a clear indication that this is the one

  Karen Mulberry:Google doc located at

  Carlos:txs Karen

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):AGree  Avri   staff needs to be *able*  to be involved at all levels  formal and informal with us IMO

  Carlos:I think STaff whould be present at least by AREAS/responsibilites. For me is not the same policy as compared to GDD, as compaerd to IANA.

  Carlos:we shuld be able to have staff feedback from the different functions

  Julf Helsingius (GNSO NCPH NCA):I agree

  Carlos:not to speak about legal department.....

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):It will be an important part of the Goran conversation  Avri

  Carlos:..and other Board support staff

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):I will need to leave in 5 mins or so  as I am Co-running the next of my back to back meetings...  Sorry in advance for when I drop

  Carlos:"authoritative Staff by fucntion" should particiapte is my take of Alan´s and Avri´s comments

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):YES

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):PLease follow that up in detail

  Brenda Brewer:Please identify your name if phone number listed ends with 5316.  Thank you!

  Carlos:not me.....

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):Bye  for now then  Thanks everyone ...   Talk soon ...

  Julf Helsingius (GNSO NCPH NCA):Thank you everyone!


For comments on the draft questions, please feel free to consult the document below:

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