Sub-group Members:   Alan Greenberg, Alejandra Reynoso, Athina Fragkouli, Avri Doria, Cheryl Langdon-Orr, Christian Dawson, Elizabeth Andrews, Farzaneh Badii, Isaac Maposa, Jorge Villa, Juan Alejo Peirano, Kavouss Arasteh, Mandy Carver, Matthew Shears, Robin Gross, Samantha Eisner, Sebastien Bachollet, Seun Ojedeji, Steve DelBianco, Tatiana Tropina, Tijani Ben Jemaa, Tom Dale    (22)

Staff:  Alice Jansen, Berry Cobb, Brenda Brewer, Karen Mulberry

Apologies:  Olga Cavalli, Phil Buckingham, John Curran, Mary Uduma, Greg Shatan, Malcolm Hutty,  Rinalia Abdul Rahim, Rafik Dammak

**Please let Brenda know if your name has been left off the list (attendees or apologies).**




  1. Welcome - Opening Remarks  (3  min  CLO,  SDB, FB)
  2. Round of *brief* Self Introductions from all DT Participants and Observers. (10 min)
  3. Brief Presentation  ‘setting the scene’ (Farzeneh Badii  10 min)
  4. Discussion of our mandate/remit and purpose as outlined and foundationed in WS1.
    • SO/AC Accountability in WS2 Bylaw
              Include the subject of SO/AC accountability in ATRT {development of baseline/ foundation documents}  
              (5 mins Steve Del Bianco
  5. Discuss and evaluate “Mutual Accountability Roundtable” idea  (10 -15 min see previously distributed link to the Adviser developed MSAF  Doc from WS1>
  6. Discuss our work plan {medium and short term}  (10 -15  mins)
  • Propose detailed plan on enhancing SO / AC accountability as part of WS2
  • Assess whether the IRP would also be applicable to SO and AC activities

      7.  AOB / Next Meeting (5 Mins) 


1. Introductions from those who are participating on today's call.

2. Background on the items to be discssed in the subgroup, including details on specific suggestions that had been raised during WS1

3. Review of Steve's Lighting talk from Helsinki that covered key items that the subgroup should consider as part of the workplan

4. Review of the draft CCWG letter regarding ATRT3 scope and focus so that it does not overlap with the work of WS2 work and recommndations that would come out from those disucssions.

- discussion on how to measure and what to measure to determine effort over other elements such as results and outreach, one issue is the size of some of the community groups

- need to also consider looking at openness along with outreach reach

- results maynot be enought to look at, effectiveness could be a useful meassurement tool as well

ACTION ITEM:  Send link to Master CCWG Calendar 

Documents Presented

Chat Transcript

Brenda Brewer: Good day all and welcome to the SO/AC Accountability Subgroup Meeting #1 on 4 August 2016 @ 13:00 UTC!

Kavouss Arasteh: Dear Brenda

Berry Cobb: Kavous, please mute your mic.

Kavouss Arasteh: Hi. I was disconnected

Berry Cobb: We can hear you type.

Avri Doria: can't you mute them?

Brenda Brewer: Kavouss, I mute your Adobe line because we can hear you

Avri Doria: at least it was a good sound check.

Kavouss Arasteh: pls connect me

Alejandra Reynoso (.gt): Good morning

Avri Doria: are we starting?

Kavouss Arasteh: have you started'

FarzanehBadii: no not yet

Avri Doria: what are we waiting for?

Kavouss Arasteh: i am dfisconnected agasin

Avri Doria: i see you Kavouss, you just seem to be muted.

Avri Doria: hard to hear

Kavouss Arasteh: dear Brenda

Kavouss Arasteh: I am again disconnecteD 

Kavouss Arasteh: it is abnormal meeting

Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: I was speaking, but I think staff has me muted

Brenda Brewer: Kavouss, the microphone on your Adobe connection works.  We could hear you earlier.

Kavouss Arasteh: staff shalll  not mute any one but asks the person who should be muted

Brenda Brewer: Reminder to all, mute your lines when not speaking please.  Thank you!

Alejandra Reynoso (.gt): My name is Alejandra Reynoso, from ccTLD .gt and member of the ccNSO council. I'm listening only, sorry

Alejandra Reynoso (.gt): Thank you Alan :)

Berry Cobb: I do not have my mic enabled.  I'm here assisting ICANN GNSO Policy staff and only observing.

Tijani BEN JEMAA: Sorry I don't have audio

Tijani BEN JEMAA: So can't speak

Elizabeth Andrews: Hello! I'm on listen only. I'm Betsy Andrews, ICANN Staff. I work in the Development and Public Responsibility Department as a researcher and I also manage the online learning platform (called ICANN Learn).

Kavouss Arasteh: I am disconnected from many mintues

Elizabeth Andrews: I'm in DPRD -- Development and Public Responsibility 

Elizabeth Andrews: and I'm on the east coast

Elizabeth Andrews: of the US

Christian Dawson: My audio is cutting in and out - is anybody else experiencing this or is it just me?

FarzanehBadii: it's ok for me

Christian Dawson: OK thank you

Isaac Maposa: Can you hear me

Kavouss Arasteh: Dear Brenda,


Alan Greenberg: This does not bode well. Are so many people not on the phone bridge because of the different bridge used?

Juan Alejo Peirano: Hi all I´m unable to use my mic right now, I´m not currently related with any ICANN groups (i´m co-chair of the Public Policy Forum from te LACNIC region), I´m only observing, thanks!


Tijani BEN JEMAA: ALAC Vice Chair and Member of the CCWG Acc

jorge villa (AS: HI all, I tried to use my microphone, but it failed. I'm an ASO member for the Latin American and the Caribbean region.

Christian Dawson: Christian Dawson, ISPCP member, spotty connection so unable to speak

Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): Kavouss  I see your hand,  is it possible for you to type your intervention into chat?  If not we will return to you later in thee Agenda 

Tijani BEN JEMAA: I don't think the Mutual accountability round table could replace the public forum for a simple raison:

Tijani BEN JEMAA: the Round table is composed of the board and the chairs of AC/SO while the public forum is open for all

FarzanehBadii: Thanks Tijani. we record your comment for the discussion on the round table

Kavouss Arasteh: Tijanie +1

matthew shears: when was the accountability roundtable format and membnership agreed?

FarzanehBadii: accountability round table is still under consideration. we need to decide whether it's a viable option

FarzanehBadii: as Steve said its deliberations are not binding

matthew shears: then its members are not determined

FarzanehBadii: no not yet

FarzanehBadii: there is a recommendation by Willie

matthew shears: on the slide on "proposed appraoch" how would "effort" be measured (sorry no mic)

Tatiana Tropina: Would like to ask the same question, thanks Matt

Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: when it comes to outreach to your target community, we cannot rely only on "results", since there are some regions where we will not find participants willing to engage at ICANN. 

Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: That's why we also look at effort: expense, events, outreach. etc.

Tatiana Tropina: while I certainly agree that it's effort that counts but to base some of the measures on something that is hard to be measured sounds like too much of uncertainty

Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: Note that I said we look at results AND at effort.  

Tatiana Tropina: This is it - after attending different kinds of outreach I have to say that it is hard to measure. even the outreach itself can be badly handled.

Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: Agree with Allan

Kavouss Arasteh: We should not base our objectives just on At Large Constituency4

Tatiana Tropina: and just "outreach" as an event - does it count as event? I don't mind :) but I would love to see more certainty

Kavouss Arasteh: Steve, if one make tens of efforts without acheiving any result that should not be valued more than an efforts e

Tatiana Tropina: Ok, I got the concept. Agree in general.

Tatiana Tropina: though still struggling with measuring. Certainly the "result" can't be a measure per se. "Efforts" are subjective but manageable, basically based on best effort...

Tatiana Tropina: but it exactly reflects the struggles of outreach and engagement, I agree. For some comunities more, for some less

Seun Ojedeji: Re Effort: I guess the outreach is just one part of it Steve, whether the voices that affect the views of the positions are also attributed to the outcome of those outreaches remains a question that needs to be answered. Its also can be dificult to easil evaluate.

Athina Fragkouli (ASO): that would be indeed very helpful Cheryl, thank you

matthew shears: thanks for the clarification Steve - I agree with measuring effort in the way you described iT 

FarzanehBadii: Athena, some of your concerns have been addressed in the new bylaws. For example claims relating to Internet number resources and protocol parameters should not be subject to IRP . 

Athina Fragkouli (ASO): @Farzaneh indeed

FarzanehBadii: GAC is not subject to periodic review

FarzanehBadii: sorry I spelled your name wrong !!!

Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: utual Accountability Roundtabel is just a potential tactic.

FarzanehBadii: yes Steve

Alan Greenberg: I think we are jumping the gun and trying to resolve all of our issues in the first meeting.

Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: Effectiveness of the AC/SO is in the bylaws already, as part of the Organizational Review

Karen Mulberry: The Master Calendar is posted on the WS2 wiki page

Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: Karen -- could you post the URL for that page please

Kavouss Arasteh: Dear Karen

Kavouss Arasteh: Tks 

FarzanehBadii: Thanks everyone

Brenda Brewer:

Kavouss Arasteh: May you pls forward that wikie to me via an off list message

Kavouss Arasteh: Tks

Brenda Brewer: Master Calendar

Brenda Brewer:

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