Sub-Group Members: Alan Greenberg, Avri Doria, Becky Burr, Edward Morris, Greg Shatan, Jonathan Zuck, Jordan Carter, Julie Hammer, Kavouss Arasteh, Keith Drazek, Leon Sanchez, Mathieu Weill, Matthew Shears, Maura Gambassi, Par Brumark, Robin Gross, Richard Morris, Steve DelBianco, Thomas Rickert, Tijani Ben Jemaa, Gary Hunt (21)
Staff: Bernard Turcotte, Berry Cobb, Brenda Brewer, Kim Carlson
Apologies: James Gannon
**Please let Brenda know if your name has been left off the list (attendees or apologies).**
- Adobe Connect recording is available here: https://icann.adobeconnect.com/p2rb1csbaq3/
- MP3 recording is available here: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-wp1-27jul15-en.mp3
1. Agenda review.
2. AOC reviews in the Bylaws - the proposed language around document transparency (to confirm for CCWG)
3. Community Power - introductory text (new text to review, to approve or issues for CCWG)
4. Fundamental Bylaws - Stress test 18 text (new text to review, to approve or issues for CCWG)
5. Community Model - ICANN Community Assembly (new text to review, identify any tweaks)
6. Community Power - Reject Budget / Plans (revised text to review, approve or issues for CCWG)
7. Community Model - Voting Weights in the Community Mechanism (revised text to review, approve or issues for CCWG)
To deal appropriately with the following items will depend on whether the lawyers have come back with their marked up drafts. If they have not, we will have no choice but to deal with these items at the meeting on 28 July.
8. Community Model - overall description
9. Community Power - removal of individual ICANN Directors
10. Community Power - recall of the entire ICANN Board
11. Fundamental Bylaws (not separately attached - unless lawyers come through, as per #4 above)
12. Community Power - Standard Bylaws
13. Agreement of Agenda for Meeting #22 on 28 July
14. Any Other Business
No notes recorded
Kimberly Carlson: (7/27/2015 09:03) Welcome to WP1 Meeting #21 on 27 July! Please note that chat sessions are being archived and follow the ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior: http://www.icann.org/en/news/in-focus/accountability/expected-standards
Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (12:56) hi all
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (12:56) hi all
Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (12:57) quick, let's vote!
Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (12:57) *grin*
Pär Brumark (GAC Niue): (12:59) Hi all!
Leon Sanchez: (13:01) hello everyone
Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (13:01) oneminute or so
Thomas Rickert: (13:02) Hi all!
Edward Morris: (13:02) Hi Thomas
Greg Shatan (IPC): (13:04) Hello, all.
Becky Burr: (13:06) Hello there
Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (13:06) Becky, hi!
Mathieu Weill: (13:07) Hi all
Greg Shatan (IPC): (13:07) Yay, us.
Mathieu Weill: (13:10) Great job Steve !
Leon Sanchez: (13:10) Indeed Steve!
arasteh: (13:10) hi every body 0400 seoup time
Mathieu Weill: (13:11) I don't think so Jordan
Greg Shatan (IPC): (13:11) I see they commented on 5B 2, 3 and 4, but not on this.
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (13:13) 5ame here
Avri Doria: (13:13) sprry i am late. were are we?
Mathieu Weill: (13:14) Agenda item 3 Avri
Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (13:16) Kavouss, that is very early
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (13:21) From Articles of Incorporation: 9. These Articles may be amended by the affirmative vote of at least two-thirds of the directors of the Corporation. When the Corporation has members, any such amendment must be ratified by a two-thirds (2/3) majority of the members voting on any proposed amendment
Greg Shatan (IPC): (13:22) The Sole Member is the only statutoryMember, i.e., the Community Mechanism will be the sole statutory Member, so I strongly doubt that one would look behind the statutory Member to the individual votes. But let's see what the lawyers say. Of course, they may respond with a question -- "So, what do you want it to be?"
Greg Shatan (IPC): (13:22) Probably not.
Robin Gross: (13:28) that sounds like a good solution, Jordan.
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (13:29) I'm wondering why we wouldn't want the Community Mechanism to amend bylaws without Board approval. 75% seems like a high enough threshhold
Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (13:29) My view: because we haven't really discussed it / thought it through.
Mathieu Weill: (13:32) Agree with tha approach Jordan ! Leon has just certified that request to Lawyers
Robin Gross: (13:34) this explanation on Member statutory powers will help us to explain to the community *why* we shouldn't be concerned about creating lots of derivative lawsuits
Edward Morris: (13:35) Agree Steve re. bylaws amendment powers
arasteh: (13:35) THE COMMIUNITY SHOULD ALSO HAVE THE ABILITY TO INITIATE CHANGE TO BYLAWS .In all type of democratic sytem the possibility existsc
Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (13:36) Kavouss: it's whether it's a direct right or not
Mathieu Weill: (13:36) I have a suggestion regarding the naming : avoid acronyms !
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (13:36) @Kavouss and Jordan -- it's what the voting threshhold should be. We cannot remove this direct right
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (13:37) Did Willie Currie describe that as an Accountability Rounddtable?
Mathieu Weill: (13:38) Willie called it the Mutual Accountability Roundtable
Robin Gross: (13:40) I liked "forum" because that is what we need - a forum for discussion and deliberation.
Matthew Shears: (13:40) agreed - ICANN Accountability Forum
Mathieu Weill: (13:40) Some feared confusion with the Public forum
Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (13:41) actually, that's quite nice: ICAF? ICANN Community Accountabiity Forum?
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (13:41) Prelude Vehicle could be conf calls and emails among AC/SO leaders.
Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (13:42) that's what this is, essentially - it just makes sure that some part of those exchanges happens in public
Mathieu Weill: (13:42) Alternate is Community Assembly. No need for Icann here ?
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (13:42) For WS1, we could rely upon our proven CCWG mechanisms. Then create a more formal and permanent forum and/or structure as part of WS2
Matthew Shears: (13:42) we don't need two entities - just one that meets annually unless and as appropriate the community decide to exercise its powers and a discussions before doing so is needed
Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (13:43) what' the second entity???
Alan Greenberg: (13:43) @Steve, +1
Matthew Shears: (13:43) ICA and PAF
Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (13:43) nobody has suggested the PAF be an entity
Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (13:43) have they?
Keith Drazek: (13:43) I don't believe so.
Keith Drazek: (13:44) Apologies for joining late in Adobe. I've been on the phone from the begiining.
Matthew Shears: (13:47) I guess my point is that we don't need an assembly and a forum
Matthew Shears: (13:47) even if one is a part of por the vehicle for the other - its confusing
Greg Shatan (IPC): (13:47) Community Vehicle Assembly Forum -- where we all get together and build a car.
Matthew Shears: (13:48) :)
Greg Shatan (IPC): (13:48) Uh, oh I left out the mechanism, hope we don't crash.
Greg Shatan (IPC): (13:49) I agree -- let's pull up a level.
Matthew Shears: (13:49) yep
Mathieu Weill: (13:50) Confirming that Lawyers have NOT seen this paper yet
Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (13:53) I am utterly opposed to a line item veto as a matter of an enforceable power for the community
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (13:54) Did the lawyers tell us we could not do line item veto because the Board has fiduciary duty for budgets?
Alan Greenberg: (13:54) Yes, improved process is of major importance but a more targetted way of the community protesting COULD be a vital part of the package.
Thomas Rickert: (13:54) I do not like line item veto either. I guess many in the community are afraid of that. However, keeping the budget veto as a "big stick" here and put on our list for WS 2 the development of more refined mechanisms might be a way to take away a lot of concerns. Great suggestion!
Jonathan Zuck (IPC): (13:55) we'll spiral out of control if we get into those details on this call
Alan Greenberg: (13:55) I said "like item veto or whatever:" it might take a very different form.
Alan Greenberg: (13:56) All I was suggesting is a reference to more refinement to overall process in WS2
Keith Drazek: (13:56) I agree we shold avoid a line item veto or anything resembling it. Particularly in WS1.
Alan Greenberg: (13:57) For the record, I would not want to see a generalized line item veto and did not mean to imply I did.
Mathieu Weill: (13:57) LAwyers review include consistency review
Mathieu Weill: (13:58) And staff & co chairs will definitely do (sigh)
Mathieu Weill: (13:59) We've had review fromlawyers on 5A
Mathieu Weill: (13:59) Some rewording, but no big issue spotted
Alan Greenberg: (14:02) My personal view is I would be delighted if all ACs were listed in the Bylaws (with full number of votes).
Matthew Shears: (14:02) I think that we should list all SO/ACs for completeness otherwise we should explain why they are not listed
Thomas Rickert: (14:04) Robin, I think we have discussed this since Frankfurt and there seems to be overwhelming support for the current proposal.
Thomas Rickert: (14:05) I have presented to the GNSO Council numerous times and there was no objection to this.
Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (14:05) How can it be premature since the numbers have been on the table since *february*?
Alan Greenberg: (14:07) @Julie :-)
Robin Gross: (14:09) we don't have consensus on this proposal, however
Edward Morris: (14:09) Correct Robin. SSAC, NCSG...it needs to be noted.
Mathieu Weill: (14:10) Julie did not object did you Julie ?
Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (14:11) we can just mention the list. no problem wit that.
Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (14:11) I can't support the idea of an appointed advisory committee like SSAc having the same number of votes here as a whole SO.
Julie Hammer (SSAC): (14:12) My personal view is that voting weights within the community should be equal. I think that would also be general SSAC view, if SSAc chose to join th CM.
Mathieu Weill: (14:12) Thanks Julie, I think that's useful clarification
Alan Greenberg: (14:13) @Jordan, ten let's suggest that the SSAC request a change to no longer being appointed by the Board. The Board currently exercises no control. It is a rubber stamp.
Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (14:13) It isn't a community that is being represented in ICANN
Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (14:13) it's different to all of the other SOs and ACs
Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (14:14) SSAC doesnt "represent" or give a foothold for the security industry in ICANN
Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (14:14) its a specialist advisory group appointed to advise the ICANN system on security and stability issues
Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (14:17) otoh the practical simplicity of 5 each is definitely appealing.
Robin Gross: (14:17) There was some opposition to the 5 votes in public comments. Those should be considered. Should I make a list of those comments?
Greg Shatan (IPC): (14:19) SSAC does "represent" the importance of security and stability in the system. I guess the issue is, if they get the vote, what happens if there is an issue that has absolutely no security and stability dimension?
Avri Doria: (14:19) personaly i support retaining the 5 vote parity across all ACSO. i welcome SSAC's postion. and support then retaining the possiblity of opting to have equal vote at a time of their choosing.
Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (14:21) you mean, changing to a five vote parity
Jordan Carter (.nz, rapporteur): (14:21) it's a change to our previous proposal
Pär Brumark (GAC Niue): (14:22) +1 Kavouss
Edward Morris: (14:23) +2 Kavrouss
Julie Hammer (SSAC): (14:23) Thanks, Jordan. That is an excellent proposal.
Robin Gross: (14:24) audio?
Greg Shatan (IPC): (14:24) seems fine
Robin Gross: (14:24) its back
Keith Drazek: (14:24) fine on the phone
Leon Sanchez: (14:24) fine here too
Thomas Rickert: (14:25) fine
Leon Sanchez: (14:27) We would happily request so Jordan
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (14:27) audio solid here
Mathieu Weill: (14:27) We have already Leon ;-)
Mathieu Weill: (14:27) The table ?
Leon Sanchez: (14:27) agree, just saying
arasteh: (14:31) Mathieu
Mathieu Weill: (14:33) yes Kavouss
arasteh: (14:33) GAC atvICANN 53 just discussed the previous models 9 designbator, Membership Model and its assiciated uninciorprated association and thus did not makea choice where it wasnted toi bea member at that stage until the whole issue clear,
Mathieu Weill: (14:38) That is perfectly clear to us Kavouss.
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (14:40) nope
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (14:44) At the point GAC might decide to vote, we may need to adjust the Supermajority vote counts.
Thomas Rickert: (14:45) Kavouss, I mentioned earlier in this call that the system would be sufficiently open.
Robin Gross: (14:45) The ACs should remain advisory and not have votes in addition to that power.
Greg Shatan (IPC): (14:46) Kavouss, thank you for being so consistently engaged, even at significant personal inconvenience and discomfort.
Thomas Rickert: (14:46) +1 Greg
Mathieu Weill: (14:49) That's perfect ! Great idea to have a summary
Avri Doria: (14:50) i will be teacing during tomorrow's WP1, may be able to make the last bit ot the call.
Kimberly Carlson: (14:51) 12:00 UTC
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (14:52) we have 8 minutes to spare!
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support: (14:52) bye all
Keith Drazek: (14:52) Thanks to Jordan for all his excellent work leading this group.
Robin Gross: (14:52) indeed, Keith!
Mathieu Weill: (14:52) Amazing work Jordan !
Matthew Shears: (14:52) yes, excellent Jordan
Jonathan Zuck (IPC): (14:52) thanks
Avri Doria: (14:53) thanks for all the hard work
Greg Shatan (IPC): (14:53) Huzzah!
Greg Shatan (IPC): (14:53) Bye all.
Leon Sanchez: (14:53) thanks everyone