Sub-Group Members: Avri Doria, Fiona Asonga, Greg Shatan, Jonathan Zuck, Jordan Carter, Keith Drazek, Kavouss Arasteh, Malcolm Hutty, Matthew Shears, Robin Gross, Roelof Meijer, Steve DelBianco, Thomas Rickert (13)
Legal Counsel: Edward McNicholas, Holly Gregory, Josh Hofheimer, Miles Fuller, Rosemary Fei, Stephanie Petit, Tyler Hilton (7)
Staff: Alice Jansen, Berry Cobb, Kim Carlson
Apologies: Alice Munyua
**Please let Brenda know if your name has been left off the list (attendees or apologies).**
The Adobe Connect recording is available here: https://icann.adobeconnect.com/p7ow90u8y1j/
The audio recording is available here:
1. Review agenda
2. Work through comments made so far by drafters in the following blocks:
a) Avri's material (p. 42 on)
b) Jordan's material (p. 2 on)
3. Agreement of next areas of focus for the next meeting.
4. Solicitation of volunteers to help with the work
5. Any Other Business
Kimberly Carlson: (6/11/2015 08:08) Welcome to WP1 Meeting #12 on 11 June. Please note that chat sessions are being archived and follow the ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior: http://www.icann.org/en/news/in-focus/accountability/expected-standards
Rosemary Fei: (11:55) Hi, folks.
Jordan Carter: (11:56) morning all
Matthew Shears: (11:56) hello
Jordan Carter: (11:56) Staff, can I have a dial out please to the usual mobile?
Greg Shatan: (11:57) Hello all.
Keith Drazek: (11:58) Hi everyone
Jordan Carter: (11:58) We will kick off in four minutes or so
Josh Hofheimer (Sidley): (12:00) Hello all
Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (12:00) Greetings
Stephanie Petit: (12:01) Greetings.
Roelof Meijer (SIDN, ccNSO): (12:01) Good day, all! No audio?
Roelof Meijer (SIDN, ccNSO): (12:02) o yes, audio is there
Thomas Rickert: (12:04) Hi all
Josh Hofheimer (Sidley): (12:04) Could we share the doc Jordan is referring to, or please distribute?
Josh Hofheimer (Sidley): (12:05) Sorry, I don't think we are on that mailing list, so thanks!
arasteh: (12:07) Dear All,
arasteh: (12:07) I am waiting to be called up
Kimberly Carlson: (12:07) Yes, we'll dial you
Roelof Meijer (SIDN, ccNSO): (12:08) I am trying to raise my hand, but it gets slapped down every time...
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (12:09) Those 4 categories were circulated by co-chairs, so WP2 is using them
Thomas Rickert: (12:09) that was our idea
arasteh: (12:09) Dear Alice,
Thomas Rickert: (12:09) but it is not cast in concrete if you have better ideas
arasteh: (12:09) May you kindly advise to diasl me up
Alice Jansen: (12:10) Kavouss, Kim is organizing a dial-out for you with the operator.
Jonathan Zuck (IPC): (12:10) pattern matching
Jonathan Zuck (IPC): (12:11) topic by topic with details from each comment so not really comment by comment as an organizational structure
arasteh: (12:11) Alice tks
Holly Gregory: (12:14) Greetings all -- having a bit of trouble with adobe
Holly Gregory: (12:14) but seems to be fixed
Avri Doria: (12:14) also some of the trending topics are common (or might be) between wp(1,2)
Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (12:15) audio keeps going out on Adobe Connect
Avri Doria: (12:15) i have long snce given up on AC for audio. except for when i am in a place where telephone doesn't work.
Avri Doria: (12:16) for the last week or more it has been going in and out.
Berry Cobb: (12:16) We're trying to get the doc loaded in AC room
Berry Cobb: (12:17) I will share my screen
Avri Doria: (12:17) could one of them share their desktop and use the drive doc?
Berry Cobb: (12:17) Issue with conversion in the PDF
Jordan Carter: (12:17) that's waht I thought they were doing, Avri
Matthew Shears: (12:17) jordan I am playing catch-up but very happy for you to tell me where I can assist / fill in
Josh Hofheimer (Sidley): (12:17) Google and Adobe cooperating? Not likely. Perhaps just load a word or PDF version.
Avri Doria: (12:17) ah , never mind
Avri Doria: (12:18) mine? it is not in proper format yet.
Avri Doria: (12:19) 'mine ' starts on 42
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (12:22) Article 18 of current ICANN Bylaws already says ICANN Salhave its principal plac of business in LosAngeles. We did not rely on AoC 8b
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (12:23) It's in the bylaws already. Only question is whether to make it Fundamental Bylaw
Matthew Shears: (12:24) part of hte problem is that we haven't really defined what aspect of jurisdiction is in WS2
Keith Drazek: (12:27) +1 Steve
Jonathan Zuck (IPC): (12:28) and part of the optics problem is a misunderstdanding of what "fundamental bylawas" are. we should always acheive factual clarity to reduce the debate
Holly Gregory: (12:28) need to be careful about not counting up the number of persons who disagree with a particular point because many who see no issue may not have commented
Alice Jansen: (12:28) Please mute your line if not speaking please.
arasteh: (12:29) tHE COMMENT has a fundamental impact on the entire process.
Jordan Carter: (12:29) Could the noisy typer PLEASE mute their audio line
Keith Drazek: (12:29) please mute phones/computers
arasteh: (12:30) We are discussing ther jurisdiction and applicable law to the process .If it is to be outside many basic assmption will be affected
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (12:31) I guess that was my point, Jordan. I don't agree with how Avi descried the two issues. AoC 8b is ALREADY in the bylaws.
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (12:31) Are you wanting me to just edit the Google Doc?
Jordan Carter: (12:32) yes - lodge as comments in the google doc
Keith Drazek: (12:33) Kavouss is correct. US/California jurisdiction HAS been our assumption. We're not proposing a change to that.
Matthew Shears: (12:33) i think part of the discussion had been that we wanted to avoid further disruption and change and therefore decided to move much of that discussions to WS2
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (12:34) I will edit the doc after the call -- since it is just too slow when I am using Adobe Connect on the same computer
Matthew Shears: (12:37) btw - i thinkthe four ways of categorizing and colors is very good
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (12:39) 305 All reviews will be conducted by a volunteer community review team comprised of representatives of the relevant Advisory Committees, Supporting Organizations, Stakeholder Groups, and the chair of the ICANN Board. The group must be as diverse as possible.
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (12:41) I believe EQUAL is ADEQUATE.
FIONA ASONGA (ASO): (12:41) I agree with Avri in being specific on the umbers
Jordan Carter: (12:43) I have deliberately not learned the acronyms to help me deal wtih all comments only on their merits
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (12:46) blue patch covering the adobe window. Can that be removed?
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (12:48) Not really a trending issue. Spain is just answering our question about Article 18 as a Fundamental Bylaw. They prefer it not be. Just record the answer.
Rosemary Fei: (12:49) Where a single comment, such as 379, covers many comments in different categories and requiring different responses from CCWG, might it make sense to break the comment into a,b,c, etc., so each subcomment can be dealt with separately?
Jonathan Zuck (IPC): (12:52) +1 steve
Rosemary Fei: (12:52) That would avoid having both "agreement" and "divergence" on a single comment, which then requires figuring out which part gets which classification.
Stephanie Petit: (12:52) Blue patch again, cannot see.
Matthew Shears: (12:52) same blue patch for me as well
Rosemary Fei: (12:54) Yes, splitting up large comments could occur later
Thomas Rickert: (12:57) I need to leave at the top of the hour! Thanks and bye!
Greg Shatan: (12:59) I must leave audio as well, though I will continue to peek at the AC room.
Matthew Shears: (12:59) same for me unfoirtunately
Jordan Carter: (13:00) Sorry to be losing you, team!
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (13:01) we recommended that the ATRT team could recommend sunset of reviews like WHOIS.
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (13:03) Excellent. We can record this as a point of agreement. Thanks, Keith
Keith Drazek: (13:03) Thanks for posing the question, Steve.
Berry Cobb: (13:04) JH = Jiah He
Jordan Carter: (13:04) blue box again Berry
Jonathan Zuck (IPC): (13:06) yes!
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (13:07) Agree, Avri
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (13:10) This is just a YES to or question on Art 18 as Fundamental.
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (13:11) As BC policy chair, I can clarify the BC supports the Member mechanism becuse legal counsel say that is the only way to make community powers enforceable
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (13:12) can staff please magnify the adobe window one step higher?
Jordan Carter: (13:13) or - Full Screen your browser, Berry, and zoom the content to 125%?
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (13:13) Agree with Avri (again)
Alice Jansen: (13:14) you can also push the 4 arrows button on your adobe connect to go into full screen
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (13:14) full screen hides the chat so not a good option
Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:14) sounds right to me
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (13:16) we proposed many enhancements to the AoC reviews. Don't want to lose them!
Jonathan Zuck (IPC): (13:17) agree. AoC goes away
Jonathan Zuck (IPC): (13:20) make it explicit that it goes away, yes
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (13:22) page 51 of our proposal suggests terminating the AoC once the bylaws reflect the commitments and reviews.
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (13:24) Jonathan -- can you clarify that issue?
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (13:24) or Greg?
Jonathan Zuck (IPC): (13:26) it does
Avri Doria: (13:30) no other guinea pigs. bummer.
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (13:30) Sure
Avri Doria: (13:30) i would liek to see how it is done right.
Avri Doria: (13:33) apologies for the eating peanuts noise. i am muted now
Keith Drazek: (13:34) +1 Steve
Jordan Carter: (13:36) https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ViLPAuc_80PEgSqJ2sFJhwyM1gJ7HSlN115kT0YjUHM/edit#
Avri Doria: (13:36) The link Jordan put in for those with editing rights, but it will still work.
Avri Doria: (13:37) the link i put is the one that allows anyone with making comments and suggested edits.
Josh Hofheimer (Sidley): (13:38) sorry, hand would not go down!
Avri Doria: (13:40) sure thanks for going through a few. appreciate it.
Avri Doria: (13:41) makes me feel less out there alone.
Avri Doria: (13:41) if everybody comments and suggests in the drive doc, things can really move along.
arasteh: (13:41) Is the issue of multistakeholder asembly which practically would be open to every body is not a simple process
FIONA ASONGA (ASO): (13:42) @Jordan I am still assisting
Rosemary Fei: (13:42) I know counsel aren't doing the comments, but I thought the process you've just gone through with Avri guinea pig should be very helpful for those who volunteer, to get consistent and useful comments. Well worth the time, even if not realistic to continue for all the other comments.
Jordan Carter: (13:42) > Community mechanism - Q7 and two related questions (13 pages):>> Veto budget - Q8 (2.5 pages):>> Changes to bylaws - Q9 (~1 page): Jordan>> Approve fundamental bylaws changes - Q10 (~ 1 page):>> Removing individual directors - Q11 (2 pages):>> Recalling the entire Board - Q12 (2 pages):>> Incorporating AOC in bylaws - Q13 and 14 (4 pages):>> Bylaws suggested stresstests - Q15 (2 pages):
Avri Doria: (13:42) and for those who don't want to do blank sheet answeres, comments on the work that others do is critically important to. i feel much more comfortable just writing something if i know others are going to come along and correct me and change it.
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (13:43) I will take a pass at AOC in bylaws and bylaws suggested by Stress Tests
FIONA ASONGA (ASO): (13:43) I will work on removing directors
FIONA ASONGA (ASO): (13:44) both individual and entire board
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (13:44) True!
Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:44) give me a task, Jordan, for a chunk
arasteh: (13:44) We have tackled the issue of Fundamental Bylaws but there is no clear criteria by which we decide whhat should be in that FB?
Keith Drazek: (13:44) Jordan, I will volunteer for a section or a topic, but don't have a preference. Assign me whatever you please.
Keith Drazek: (13:45) Sounds good, thanks.
Matthew Shears: (13:46) sure thanks
Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:47) I can be added to the community mechanism chunk
Keith Drazek: (13:49) Sounds goood. Can staff circulate an assignment table?
Malcolm Hutty: (13:49) Summaries are good, but should be used to ensure comments are fully considered. Avoid risk of eliding out dissenting comments
Avri Doria: (13:50) oh, there is reputation invovled. opps.
Avri Doria: (13:51) i mean oooops.
Alice Jansen: (13:52) Saturday, 13 June 2015 from 05:00– 07:00 (AM) UTC
Rosemary Fei: (13:55) That would require breaking up original comments by issue, though.
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (13:57) Malcolm -- great work on your analysis for WP2. Any chance you hav ea few hours to start drafting the saem approach for Community Mechanism?
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (13:59) Understand, Malcolm. Just had to ask!
Malcolm Hutty: (14:00) I don't know how much progress has been made today with IRP while I was doing Mission and Fund. Bylaws; if they've nearly finished I'll try to get back to you
FIONA ASONGA (ASO): (14:00) Saturday is fine
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (14:01) Scroll to bottom of Malcolm's doc to see the mapping
Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: (14:01) Doc would be better so that we can copy the format!
Josh Hofheimer (Sidley): (14:01) and to counsel for the distribution please, thanks
Avri Doria: (14:02) bye
Jordan Carter: (14:02) thanks all
Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:02) bye all
Rosemary Fei: (14:02) Thanks, all.
FIONA ASONGA (ASO): (14:02) ok bye