Sub-Group Members:  Samantha Eisner, David McAuley, Edward Morris, Greg Shatan, Leon Sanchez, Robin Gross, Avri Doria, Cheryl Langdon-Orr, Sabine Meyer, Alan Greenberg

Staff:   Alice Jansen, Berry Cobb, Brenda Brewer

**Please let Brenda know if your name has been left off the list (attendees or apologies).**


Transcript CCWG ACCT Legal Subteam meeting 24 March.doc

Transcript CCWG ACCT Legal Subteam meeting 24 March.pdf


The Adobe Connect recording is available here:

The audio recording is available here:


  • Roll Call
  • Ground rules
  • Scope of work
  • Working methods
  • Timeline


CCWG - Legal Subteam Call

Chat sessions are being archived and follow the ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior:

These high-level notes were prepared to help you navigate through content of the call and do not substitute in any way the transcript.--

Ground rules

- All communications should be public. A publicly archived mailing list has been set up. 

ACTION ITEM - Alice to ensure all have access to mailing-list

- Observers have on read-only mode

ACTION ITEM - shortlist of names to be sent to lawyers

- All communication should be made through the public mailing list

- ICANN expected standards of behavior 

- Engagement letter states that no individual outside the legal subteam should address law firms. Should that happen, alert subteam of these communications. Measures will be taken accordingly.

- Aware that relationship between Adler and SIdley is ongoing friendly relationship. History in different aspects that should make coordination easier.

- Private meetings between lawyers to coordinate would be desirable. 

- Ground rules will be ironed out in working methods

- Engagement letters are drafted so that they address that what ICANN is client, ICANN has instructed law firms to refer to CCWG only. 

- Those present on this call will constitute shotlist that will be sent to lawyers 

- All calls should take place in adobe connect unless one-on-one calls. Calls should be recorded and transcribed. Sheet of who is on call and what happened. All instructions with request for item of legal work should in writing on legal subteam mailing-list for recording purposes.

- Any follow-up clarifications for request should also be in writing on mailing list

- Legal relationship with CCWG is larger group than subteam. Interest in undersanding composition to identify players. 

--> The CCWG is a larger group (160 people) - legal subteam (25 people) - legal executive subteam (6-7 people). Cultural diversity

- Michael Clark has attended full set of meetings. Holly Gregory joined later on Tuesday. Did not join WP2 call on Tuesday. 

- Adler was on remotely for 90 min on Monday. It was not recommended that we attend rest of meeting. Greg attended chat room discussions - Plan to review recordings 

- Michael Clark will share perspectives on Thursday 

- Suggestion to review meeting in its entirety in Adobe Connect room 

- Ability to see transcript, recording, adobe connect recording 

- Adobe connect chat is an important resource


Scope of Work

- Need to avoid duplicate work. Structure we envision to have in working both law firms is to have Adler provide primary source of advice regarding corporate governance law and California not-for-profit law. Working primarily with Adler. Will be going to Sidley to cross-check. 

- International law - jursidiction issues etc anything else should be addressed to Sidley. - Sidley has been working for another group within ICANN and some of materials involved California law. Information should flow freely between law firms. 


Working Methods

- When face-to-face meetings/calls happen, legal advice should come in real time in reply to anyone raising a question. 

- Method for addressing questions - notes would be taken and formulate questions into request

- Make sure that agreement within subteam that certain items are for research or not 

- Instructions should come from legal executive 

- Single mailing-list - no executive list 

- Assign posting privileges vs. read only. Posting privileges should carry request privileges 

ACTION ITEM: Inform larger group of mailing list settings

ACTION ITEM Alice to implement posting privileges 

- Observer rights to anyone on list. 

- Honor transparency or obligations - to manage traffic - regular calls 


- When formulating requests for precise legal advice, distribute a Word or PDF to obtain legal advice. 

- One weekly call - Wednesday at 15:00-16:00 UTC

- Number requests 

- Wiki updates

ACTION ITEM - Brenda to send invites to both law firms as well as legal subteam (starting April 1)  - TIme 15:00 UTC on Wednesdays (duration: 60 min)


- Urgent need for initial legal advice. 

- Law firms to coordinate based on determination of which questions go to which firm

ACTION ITEM - Legal subteam to coordinate questions on 24 March COB

ACTION ITEM - Law firms to start working on 25 March for initial approach to be delivered on 27 March

Action Items

ACTION ITEM - Alice to ensure all have access to mailing-list

ACTION ITEM - shortlist of names to be sent to lawyers

ACTION ITEM: Inform larger group of mailing list settings

ACTION ITEM Alice to implement posting privileges 

ACTION ITEM - Brenda to send invites to both law firms as well as legal subteam (starting April 1)  - TIme 15:00 UTC on Wednesdays (duration: 60 min)

ACTION ITEM - Legal subteam to coordinate questions on 24 March COB

ACTION ITEM - Law firms to start working on 25 March for initial approach to be delivered on 27 March

Documents Presented

Chat Transcript

Brenda Brewer: (3/24/2015 12:33) Good day and welcome to the CCWG Accountability LEGAL Meeting on 24 March.

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (12:59) do we have an agenda for our discussion today?

  David McAuley: (13:00) I have not seen one Robin but may have missed it in the blizzard of email

  Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair-ALAC): (13:01) HI all

  Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair-ALAC): (13:01) Yes. We do have an agenda

  David McAuley: (13:01) Hi Leon

  Greg Shatan: (13:01) Hello, all.  I hope you are having a Turkish Delight of a meeting so far.  I am dialed in to the bridge.

  Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair-ALAC): (13:01) sorry for not sending it before

  David McAuley: (13:02) Surprised you are here Greg, thought you would be on the road to Istanbul

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:02) no worries, Leon.  I know we are stretched a bit thin this week!

  Samantha Eisner: (13:02) Waiting to be let into the call . . .

  Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair-ALAC): (13:03) Thanks Robin! :-)

  Samantha Eisner: (13:03) From afar, the meetings this week sound very productive

  David McAuley: (13:03) agree wRobin

  David McAuley: (13:03) sorry wSam

  Brenda Brewer: (13:04) Please stand by.  we are trying to connect the line with Leon on it. 

  Alice Jansen: (13:05) This call is now being recorded.

  Greg Shatan: (13:08) Here is a link to the CWG Client Committee's "Rules of Engagement":

  Greg Shatan: (13:08) This covers the CWG-side "working methods."

  David McAuley: (13:08) thanks Greg

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:08) A good starting point for us, Greg.

  Edward Morris: (13:09) Thanks Greg

  Greg Shatan: (13:09) @David, my flight leaves at 8:10 pm (6 hours from now).

  David McAuley: (13:10) Bless you

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:10) can I ask what is meant in th discussion notes to the right by "ACTION ITEM - Shortlist of names to be sent to lawyers"?  I'm just not sure what that means.  Thanks.

  David McAuley: (13:12) @Robin, we need to clarify but I think it is a list of those in group with whom the lawyers should speak

  Samantha Eisner: (13:13) Coordination is also positive in that it will provide opportunities to make sure that the two firms are not performing overlapping work

  David McAuley: (13:13) thanks Holly

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:14) Thanks, David.

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:15) Thanks for that clarification, Leon.

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:16) Good suggestion, Greg.

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:17) yes and any follow-up clarifications to that request

  Samantha Eisner: (13:21) CCWG membership is set out at

  Samantha Eisner: (13:21) The legal subteam page is at

  Samantha Eisner: (13:25) One of the working methods should be for the subteam to be very clear with the firms as to where they are expected to attend and how they are expected to interact at each session they are requested to attend

  David McAuley: (13:26) good points Sam

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:26) It would be worthwhile to review the mtg in its entirety in the AC room.

  Greg Shatan: (13:26) We are well covered.

  David McAuley: (13:26) indeed

  David McAuley: (13:27) +1 Cheryl

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:27) Agree that the chat is an important part of the mtg record.

  Steven Chiodini: (13:27) Adler & Colvin will review the recording and chat in their entirety.

  Edward Morris: (13:28) Thank you Steven.

  Samantha Eisner: (13:29) It should also be clear how the firms are expected to respond to requests that come from those outside of the legal subteam when they are participating on broader calls

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:29) good point, Sam.

  Steven Chiodini: (13:31) A&C recalls there were outside CA corporate law questions, international law questions, and antitrust issueson the scoping doc

  Samantha Eisner: (13:32) The requests to either Adler or Sidley will be made through the public list so that they can coordinate as needed on them?

  David McAuley: (13:33) The broader calls here I suppose could only be full CCWG calls, is that right?

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:34) I think that fits with our operating principles of communications on the list, Sam.

  Steven Chiodini: (13:34) Cant hear speaker

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:35) I like that approach, Leon.

  Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair-ALAC): (13:35) Thanks Robin :-)

  Greg Colvin, Rosemary Fei, et al: (13:37) Is Greg Shatan referring to Work Streams 1 and 2?

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:37) No, the CCWG and CWG

  Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair-ALAC): (13:37) @Greg, no, he is refering to two different groups

  Edward Morris: (13:38) the CWG and CCWG

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:38) CCWG (us) are focused on accountability.  CWG is focused on IANA transition plan

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:38) but we are related

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:39) :-)

  Greg Colvin, Rosemary Fei, et al: (13:41) If all legal communications go through the Legal Sub-team, is that the whole group of 25-26 or the Executive group of 6-7?

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:42) instructions would come from the executive group

  Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair-ALAC): (13:42) Exactly Robin

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:42) but there may be larger questions where other members have questions

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:42) larger meetings, I mean.  (sorry)

  Alice Jansen: (13:43) so this means an executive mailing list needs to be created, correct?

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:43) I don't think so either

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:43) we just will stay within our roles

  Greg Shatan: (13:44) I don't think so.  We should be transparent to the larger legal subteam.

  Samantha Eisner: (13:45) It is hard to hear Athena

  Samantha Eisner: (13:45) and the other conversation further from the speaker

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:45) is it only about posting to the mailing list or is it about authority to request legal advice?

  Samantha Eisner: (13:45) @Robin, I was discussing authority to request legal advice

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:46) that's what I thought

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:46) it could be helpful to the lawyers to see the conversation on the subteam list

  Greg Shatan: (13:48) <waving hand>

  Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair-ALAC): (13:49) Will go to you Greg

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:49) I suspect Greg has the answer!

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:53) I agree we need a phone call once a week

  David McAuley: (13:55) I will drop off adobe at some point for a computer auto-start but will remain on the phone

  Sabine Meyer: (13:55) /thumbs up

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:55) sounds good, Leon

  Greg Colvin, Rosemary Fei, et al: (13:57) If you want to be really precise about it, the legal requests could be sequentially numbered in time.  Sometimes, we might get an oral request during a call, and we would summarize it in writing, for you to assign a number to it.

  David McAuley: (13:57) Nice idea  Greg, Rosemary

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:57) yes, thanks!

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:58),5,8&h=100&date=2015-3-27&sln=15-17

  Greg Shatan: (13:59) 14:00 UTC means 7/8/9/10 am in the US/Mexico., during Daylight Savings .

  Greg Shatan: (13:59) 6/7/8/9 during standard time.

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (13:59) I thought he said 15:00 UTC.  oops.  better get clarification

  Leon Sanchez (Co-Chair-ALAC): (13:59) nothing set in stone wrt hour at this stage

  David McAuley: (14:00) friday

  Greg Colvin, Rosemary Fei, et al: (14:00) 7 am Pacific might be difficult for us, driving kids to school.  8 am or 9 am Pacific is fine.

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:00) Monday?

  David McAuley: (14:00) the other friday

  David McAuley: (14:01) thursday fine

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:01) There are some WP2 mtgs on Thursday, so let's not conflict with that

  Samantha Eisner: (14:02) To the extent that ICANN staff would be requested to support these meetings, there is a standing call for them at 15 UTC on Thursdays

  Greg Shatan: (14:02) Bring the pain.

  David McAuley: (14:02) how long Sam

  Samantha Eisner: (14:03) betwee 1-2 hours, depending on teh week

  David McAuley: (14:03) thanks

  David McAuley: (14:04) 1700 UTC works for me but not 1800 - standiung meeting then

  David McAuley: (14:04) wednesday fine

  David McAuley: (14:04) wednesday we (CCWG folks) will have latest direction

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:04) WP2 has met at 20:00 UTC on Thursday, so any time other than that on Thur is OK

  David McAuley: (14:05) works for me

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:05) ok

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:05) Wed. 15:00 UTC ok

  Samantha Eisner: (14:06) No, we're already changed

  David McAuley: (14:07) Good - but not tomorrow?

  David McAuley: (14:07) you could call from the plane

  Samantha Eisner: (14:07) To the firms, for cost purposes, please make sure that attendance on weekly calls is limited to those who are necessary for attendance

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:09) the exec team may want to make those determinations of which questions go where first primarily

  Samantha Eisner: (14:09) Suggest that the Sidley answers to the CWG questions as well as the document produced by Jones Day in Singapore be shared with the entire legal sub team and both firms

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:10) I worry that the Jones Day doc is misleading

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:10) or at least leading

  Samantha Eisner: (14:11) One of the purposes was to allow the eventual legal firm selected to challenge those answers as appropriate

  Greg Shatan: (14:11) I felt a lot better about the Jones Day document after Kevin Espinola talked it through with a bunch of us.

  Steven Chiodini: (14:11) What is the Jones Day doc?

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:11) yeah, but it was because of what wasn't in the documet

  Greg Shatan: (14:12) But certainly, feed the Jones Day document to the law firms ... with barbecue sauce.

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:12) we could send the recording of the conversation we had a lunch time.  that was far more helpful than the written submission

  Edward Morris: (14:12) I agree with Robin. Would prefer to get true independent  fresh legal advice.

  Greg Shatan: (14:14) Do you really think our high-powered lawyers will be swayed by the Jones Day document?

  Samantha Eisner: (14:14) To the extent that it would involve us paying for another firm to provide the same advice that has already been provided, that is not really an efficient use of resources

  Steven Chiodini: (14:14) I don't think our independence is affected by seeing another firm's advice

  Greg Shatan: (14:14) If Holly's read it, A&C should read it too.

  Samantha Eisner: (14:14) If there's a difference of opinion, that's really important to point out

  Greg Shatan: (14:15) If lawyers were that easily convinced by other law firms, every case would settle after the compllaint.

  Robin Gross [GNSO - NCSG]: (14:15) then the recording of the lunch time session (which explains much greater detail) should also be provided.

  Steven Chiodini: (14:16) Yes, please

  Samantha Eisner: (14:16) If there are any notes or recording of that session, fully agree, Robin

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