Members: David McAuley, Kristina Rosette, Kavouss Arasteh, Kurt Pritz, Malcolm Hutty, Mike Rodenbaugh, Sam Eisner, Scott Austin, Susan Payne
Guests/Observers: Becky Burr, Kate Wallace, Leon Sanchez, Liz Le
ICANN Org: Bernard Turcotte, Brenda Brewer
Apologies: Flip Petillion
** If your name is missing from attendance or apology, please send note to mssi-secretariat@icann.org **
Agenda:
Review Agenda and updates to SOIs
Complete discussion on the interpretation of the Bylaws wrt initiation
Next meeting 29 November 18:00 UTC
Transcript: PDF
Recording:
Documents: PDF - Initiation Slides v2
Zoom Chat Transcript: (also view on Zoom replay screen, right side)
00:31:57 Kristina Rosette: Apologies for being late. My laptop decided to install ALL the updates as I was starting to login.
00:33:12 David McAuley (Verisign): its week after Thanksgiving
00:35:06 Kristina Rosette: That would be helpful, Susan.
00:37:49 Mike Rodenbaugh: ICANN represented many months ago that a page was going to be put up on this. Is there an update?
00:41:06 Bernard Turcotte: done
00:41:40 David McAuley (Verisign): I think those principles you stated Susan make sense
00:51:47 David McAuley (Verisign): I think your point here is clear
01:01:27 Sam Eisner - ICANN Org: We do not anticipate that the ICDR filing fee would change whether there is a Standing Panel or not. The fee for a nonmonetary claim would remain the same
01:02:19 Mike Rodenbaugh: The Bylaws make clear that a Purpose of the IRP is to provide an alternative to court litigation. There is no implication that it should cost more than court litigation.
01:04:00 Mike Rodenbaugh: ICDR filing fee is an “administrative fee”, indeed they have called it that.
01:04:09 Sam Eisner - ICANN Org: On the order of payment of legal fees in an IRP, while ICANN was ordered to pay a portion of Afilias’ legal fees as it related to certain arguments, Afilias was also ordered to pay ICANN’s legal fees as it related to other arguments made.
01:06:49 Susan Payne, Com Laude: thanks Sam for the clarity, which supports Mike's point was that legal fees have been held to fall within "costs and/or fees"
01:07:36 Sam Eisner - ICANN Org: The IRP is still about violations of the Bylaws, and prior versions of the IRP also required a showing of harm. I don’t concur that the purpose of the changes was to necessarily change the makeup of the people who could bring claims
01:08:04 Mike Rodenbaugh: Perhaps we should agree on what a reasonable Claimant filing fee is, and then ICANN subsidizes the remainder of ICDR’s administrative fees??
01:08:37 Sam Eisner - ICANN Org: We do not have the ability to change the ICDR’s filing fee
01:09:22 Mike Rodenbaugh: ICANN does have the ability to pay those fees
01:09:26 Mike Rodenbaugh: In whole or in part
01:16:53 Mike Rodenbaugh: Susan’s interpretation is perfectly logical.
01:22:21 Malcolm Hutty: I don't think anyone has said ICANN cannot contract with ICDR. I believe as a matter of fact, currently ICANN has no such contract
01:22:26 Malcolm Hutty: @Kavouss
01:24:49 Mike Rodenbaugh: To date, ICANN has admitted it has paid zero for “administrative costs of maintaining the IRP mechanism.” So, when are they going to start to do that?
01:25:42 Bernard Turcotte: time check - 30 min left in call
01:26:43 Mike Rodenbaugh: There were exactly two IRPs before the Bylaws were amended in 2012. Both re .xxx
01:26:55 Mike Rodenbaugh: Not useful examples.
01:31:06 Mike Rodenbaugh: It has always been ICDR
01:31:06 León Felipe Sánchez Ambía: I need to drop early. My apologies
01:31:18 Sam Eisner - ICANN Org: I have to switch to audio only
01:35:20 Mike Rodenbaugh: There already is very strong disincentive to file a frivolous IRP complaint, since the filer could be forced to pay ICANN’s legal fees.
01:41:16 Mike Rodenbaugh: I have heard no explanation from ICANN as to what they think the administrative costs are that they are required to pay. Since they have paid none for so many years.
01:45:25 Mike Rodenbaugh: There are other administrative costs, other than panel fees. And ICANN is required to pay those….
01:45:37 Mike Rodenbaugh: So what are they, and when will ICANN start paying them?
01:47:47 Mike Rodenbaugh: To date, they bear everything except the panel fees.
01:50:43 Susan Payne, Com Laude: @Malcolm, agree panelists are specific to a case, but my understanding of that is that this is why they are called out specifically
01:51:24 Malcolm Hutty: AHH!
01:51:34 Malcolm Hutty: Now I see why this is so opaque
01:51:38 Malcolm Hutty: Thank you Liz!
