MaryamBakoshi:Dearall, welcome to the CCWP on ICANN & HR call on Monday, 17th Aug 2015 at 13:00 UTC
MaryamBakoshi:MeganRichards& Sara Bockey have joined the meeting
MaryamBakoshi:RafikDammakhasjoined
MaryamBakoshi:Nielshasjoined
matthewshears:hello
MaryamBakoshi:MatthewSHearsandmariliaMarciel have joined
MaryamBakoshi:TatianaTropinahasjoined
MariliaMaciel:Helloall!
Megan Richards, EuropeanCommission:muchbetter !
MariliaMaciel:Sure.
TatianaTropina:Hieveryone!
MariliaMaciel:Yes
MariliaMaciel:Maybewecansee the agenda on screen?
Niels ten Oever - Article19:1. Short evaluation ICANN2. Works as agreed.1. chart2. legal3. administrivia3. CCWG accountability & human rights4. other issues
Marilia Maciel:Perfect
Marilia Maciel:Lostaudio, Niels
Megan Richards, European Commission:wehavelost yourvoiceNiels!
Maryam Bakoshi:Alexandra, Avri Doria, Stephanie Perrin & Farzaneh have joined
Maryam Bakoshi:Nileswillrejoin soon
matthew shears:seemtohave audio issues
Maryam Bakoshi:Wearecalling him now
Marilia Maciel:Ok, thanks, Maryam
Maryam Bakoshi:Weareworking to get Niels back on the line
Niels ten Oever - Article19:yyou lost me?
MaryamBakoshi:Yes
Niels ten Oever - Article19:aii
MariliaMaciel:Yes,noaudio
MaryamBakoshi:Theoperatorhasbeen trying to call you
Niels ten Oever -Article19:canyou call me again?
Niels ten Oever - Article19:Ijusthung up now
Niels ten Oever - Article19:plscallme again
Niels ten Oever - Article19:wheredidyou lose me?
matthew shears:Iamhere (I think)
Megan Richards, European Commission:atthebeginning !!
TatianaTropina:canyouhear me?
Niels ten Oever - Article19:Nowe cannot hear you
Maryam Bakoshi:No
Tatiana Tropina:toobad
Maryam Bakoshi:Tatianado you have a number we can sial out to
Maryam Bakoshi:*dial
Tatiana Tropina:+4917635423791
Maryam Bakoshi:AmrElsadr has joined
Maryam Bakoshi:@Tatiana - calling you now
Marilia Maciel:Vacationsfor you guys, in Europe I think :)
Maryam Bakoshi:YesTatiana is on the line
Marilia Maciel:Avri? Matt? :)
matthew shears:Ithink that the accountabillity proposal is also asking for input from commenters on the issue of human rights in the bylaws in parallel
Megan Richards, European Commission:thisis what the report seems to say but perhaps this is evolving: •Work plan for Work Stream 2 to: oEnhance diversity and the culture of transparency within ICANNoFurther address concerns about community accountability. The 2nd Draft Report includes a recommendation for regular structural reviews of SOs and ACs to assess their accountability towards their participants as well as towards the stakeholders they are designed to represent.oElaborate on a Commitment to human rights in the ICANN Bylaws.•Details on an implementation plan for Work Stream 1, including a Bylaws drafting process.
Megan Richards, European Commission:sorry- wrong cut and paste !! apologies
matthew shears:intermsof strategy it will be important for a number of diverse entities to input on this inthepublocconsultation- thecommentrevirewprocessdoes not weight the inputs so more inputs on issuesofconcernsuchasHR is important
Avri Doria:iplanto put in my own comment on the issue.
Avri Doria:bothHRrelated and other.
matthewshears:+ 1
matthewshears:Ithinkwe have to leave a lot of this to WS2. If we start to get into the detail the bylaw may get very long and cumbersome
Tatiana Tropina:Ithinkit is better to avoid detailing bylaws in order to avoid long legal debates which can get us to nowhere and delay the changes we want
matthew shears:yep
Tatiana Tropina:*again I don't know how far this discussion went before, may be I am just repeating what has already been discussed many times
Megan Richards, European Commission:perhapsitsa problem with the mike - inanutshellIagree withmarilia'scomment
Maryam Bakoshi:HiMegan, please could you provide your number for dial out
Amr Elsadr:@Matt: RE: HRs in WS2, that sounds logical to me, so +1. For now, some form of commitment from the CCWG to include HR issues in WS2 wouldn't be such a bad thing though.
Megan Richards, European Commission:Mynumberis +322 2962443 butmariliasaid exactly what I was going to say -
Avri Doria:The Corporation shall operate for the benefit of the Internet community as a whole, carrying out its activities in conformity with relevant principles of international law and applicable international conventions and local law and, to the extent appropriate and consistent with these Articles and its Bylaws, through open and transparent processes that enable competition and open entry in Internet-related markets. To this effect, the Corporation shall cooperate as appropriate with relevant international organizations
matthew shears:shamewecan't just asterisk the bylaw above after the word conventions and add if need be UDHR and ICCPR
Tatiana Tropina:@Matthew, it's articles of incorporation I think :)
matthew shears:thanks
Megan Richards, European Commission:thearticlesof incorporation cover all
Avri Doria:... coverl all that are relevant ... applicable ... and to the extent apprpproprote consistent with the bylaws.
TatianaTropina:Yes, in a general way
Megan Richards, European Commission:theArticles take precedence over the bylaws - the bylaws can limit the application or clarify the specific provisions
Tatiana Tropina:+1 to Megan. I see any changes made to bylaws as clarification of this general commitment
Megan Richards, European Commission:ICANNhasagreed to apply the applicable and relevant provisions by virtue of the provisions of its ARticles of incorporation - public international law and its application is a separate issue and not what we should be discussing here
matthewshears:agreewithsimple phrasing for bylaws
Avri Doria:thosearenot my concerns, as much as the concerns oftothers. isupportthe most general language.
Tatiana Tropina:Iactuallydon't see any way to make otherthansimplewordingof bylaws
Megan Richards, European Commission:amrespondingin the chat then
Megan Richards, European Commission:weshouldensure that the work is not duplicating that done in GAC HRwgand other fora
matthew shears:goodpoint- have the GAC discussions evolved since the meeting in BA?
Megan Richards, European Commission:notyetbut would be a pity if the various groups were to either duplicate or heavens forbid contradict that of each other
Avri Doria:Isn'tthe GAC havingasimlardefinitionalissues as the WP4 is having
Megan Richards, European Commission:thanksandapologies for no voice :-)
Maryam Bakoshi:Dearall, welcome to the ICANN and HR call on Friday 29th May 2015
Maryam Bakoshi:RafikDammakand Niels Ten Oever have joined the meeting
Maryam Bakoshi:Welcome
Marilia Maciel:Helloall!
Maryam Bakoshi:WelcomeMarilia
rafik:non
Maryam Bakoshi:Monikahasjoined
rafik:maybesheis shy :)
Monika Zalnieriute:xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Monika Zalnieriute:Ialsoright it here:)
Monika Zalnieriute:haha, I read that I am shy here:)
Monika Zalnieriute:ok, I wait for the call then!
Niels ten Oever -Article19:Monika,canyou pick up?
MonikaZalnieriute:Istilldidnotgeta call
rafik:whojoined?
Maryam Bakoshi: Pranesh Prakash
Monika Zalnieriute:butI can hear You though,
Maryam Bakoshi:VipulKarbhanda
Maryam Bakoshi:havebothjoined
Monika Zalnieriute:mayebsomeoneknow, what I should click to make my mic work?
Niels ten Oever -Article19:CliclonthemicMonika
Alexandra:hi!
MaryamBakoshi:Alexandrapleasecouldyoustateyour full name for record purposes. Thank you
Alexandra:Maryam,it'sAlexandra Kulikova
MariliaMaciel:Pleasestarttherecording
MonikaZalnieriute:yes,Ican,
MariliaMaciel:Please,canwelet the ppl on the phone introduce themselves?
Alexandra:i'mnotsure I won't be able to speak though unfortunately(
Marilia Maciel:Please, mute your mics
rafik:nielsshouldsdisablethe mic for his adobe connect :)
Marianne F:Hiall,thereis feedback so we are hearing Niels twice
Marianne F:You'rewelcomMonika,apologiesfor the lengthy email nonetheless! :)
Marilia Maciel:Whatisthe deadline to comment?
Niels ten Oever - Article19:Dependsifwe want to print it nicely
Niels ten Oever - Article19:Ifwewant it to be gone via editor, design and print, we will need to have it done by Monday
rafik:@Niels it is a working document for CCWP to continue the discussion, expecting the CCWP to produce its first delvierable
Niels ten Oever - Article19:Indeed, so we need toagreeonaapprovalprocedure(point 1.3 :) )
rafik:Iwouldsee it as an "issue report" not necessarily neededanapproval,itis more research work to give input
Niels ten Oever - Article19:let's discuss this under the next point
Pranesh Prakash:Ifwedon'tmake a strong defence of HR, who will? :-) Having said that I don't think there's a need to establish a duty to protect on ICANN's part.
Marianne F:OFcourse, they do have this responsibility just we need to proceed step by step. So if the point is made in a note then it is there on the record to be used and referred to later if need be (just reiterating verbal point in writing)
Niels ten Oever - Article19:+1
Pranesh Prakash:+1
Maryam Bakoshi:NigelHicksonhas joined
Marilia Maciel:Audioissueshere. Will have to go out and enter again, sorry
Marianne F:+1 from me for leaving it inasexample; just to edit and tighten up for now and indicate there option of more detailed analysis later
Pranesh Prakash:+1 to Marianne
Monika Zalnieriute:Guys, I agree to have it as an example: would You like to have it a shorter part though for now?
MonikaZalnieriute:inthisparticular report?
MonikaZalnieriute:+ Lee; it might be too much stuff.
MonikaZalnieriute:Allatonce.
Marianne F:Hi, if the feeling is to keep it in then perhaps as a note? But Lee is pointing out the timing issue so I would defer to those who know ICANN better than I do
Marianne F:Pleasemutemics when typing! :)
Marianne F:Ifindoubt leave it out
Alexandra:Agreethatthe UDRP part might draw attention from the substantial issues int hefirstpartintheshape it is now
Alexandra:Imighthave missed it -couldsmbpleaseremind again how GAC is going to be engaged?
Pranesh Prakash:Apologies. I have to leave now. But would just like to reiterate that wemustI(strategically) bear the burden of being the people who take positions on sensitive commercial issues. If we don't, no one else will. We can build bridges after we have some rough position.
Marianne F:+1 from mePranesh; point well taken, cheerio!
rafik:@Alexandra we have some GAC members in the CCWP, it has its own working group and Lee is basically doing the liaison. maybe Lee can elaborate here
Marilia Maciel:Maybewecould move to the session in BA?
Monika Zalnieriute:SoI would like to get the idea what do we do?: please type in here, so I could briefly have an idea who is for LEAVING the UDRP and who is for TAKING OUT
Niels ten Oever - Article19:Theconsensusseems to be that it could be mentionedasan shortexample, but weleaveourtthelonger expose.
Alexandra:sorry
Marilia Maciel:Yes, that is my feeling too
Alexandra:I'lltype
rafik:@monika in few words more coming work for you :)
Monika Zalnieriute:Ok, how long - and how detailed - simply a page or so or approx how long?
Niels ten Oever -Article19:Shorter
MarianneF:Mentionit, keep it short as a concrete example vs. a full expose.
MonikaZalnieriute:yes,yes, so simply asinglerefernece, You mean -thatsit?
MonikaZalnieriute:shorterthanapage, You mean?
Niels ten Oever - Article19:Yes
MonikaZalnieriute:simplylikeanexamplementione, in a sentence?:)
Alexandra:guys, just a quick comment/observation: an elaboratedescriptionof thisonecase study now will definitely attract criticism from Russian GAC representatives - as at theSignaporemeeting they were very vocal on the Crimean domains issue from the HR perspective. It's a verydebateableissue in terms of how exactly thatrelatesto theICANNremit, but if theHRtalkstarts with UDRP in detail I can expect the reaction :) what I mean is that there seems to be a strong link for themberweenICANN and thatincidetin the HR context. I can expect there will be efforts to stick it in
Marianne F:..I see your point but won't there be this sort of push back anyway? If this example really could become a red herring (forgive the pun) then leave it out for now. We can always put it back in...
Alexandra:yeahI guess you're right.. But it would be good to at least formulate some stance on the issue from the group? or have a longer least of potential case studies for future
Alexandra:*list
rafik:therewillbe pish back for many topics, that is why we have to work on consensus and "educate"
Marilia Maciel:Yes, open to collaboration/endorsements
rafik:weneedto get CCWP to have ownershiponitwowndeliverable
Marianne F:Iagree; send the final version of the report to the CCWP for comments. People comment best when there is something concrete to comment on.
rafik:thepublicsession is not clashing with important sessions
rafik:kathy is not coming to BA
Marilia Maciel:Iwouldgobitfurtherand ask them for theiraseesment
Marilia Maciel:somesortof responsibility to speak
Marilia Maciel:great
Marilia Maciel:Perfect
Alexandra:thanksNiels
Marianne F:ThanksNiels, thanks all for a great meeting
Amr Elsadr:ThisACroom is audio enabled, so you can use it to speak without dialling into the conference.
matthew shears:IsthereaICANNWP template?
matthew shears:whenwewere doing the Charter for the CCWGAccountbailitythere was a template - granted it is a WGnotWP but just wondered
Amr Elsadr:Great. Thanks.
Amr Elsadr:Bringingin/recruiting the expertise would be fantastic.
jorgecancioGAC-Switzerland:Asinformationunder 4: GAC agreed in Singapore to form a working group on human rights and international law
jorgecancioGAC-Switzerland:Itisnow being constituted, with a large number of interested GAC members, and with the work being lead by Peru
Amr Elsadr:@Jorge: That's wonderful. Looking fwd to seeing what this WG comes up with. Thanks.
matthew shears:ithinkit will be important to ensure linkagesbetwenthe WP and the WG - maybe it should be written into the charter
Amr Elsadr:Iseethis now in the text on theetherpad, which answers my earlier question: To propose procedures and mechanisms with the aim ofproducingassessmentson if and how policies and procedures underdevelopedand/or being implemented may impact on human rights.
MonikaZalnieriute:Iamhere, I can hear everything, but I am not sure I can speak.
MonikaZalnieriute:DoYouhearme?
Amr Elsadr:@Monika: Click on the phone icon on the top left of the screen.
matthew shears:Ilikethe idea of looking at HR in the broader framing of CSR - it might be easier for the SOs and ACs to understand (and be open to)
Maryam Bakoshi:@Monika, please give me your number and I will dial out to you
Monika Zalnieriute:Ok, I have turned my mic, it should work,
Monika Zalnieriute:aha, ok, my phone no xxxxxxxxxxxx
Maryam Bakoshi:Diallingoutto you now
Maryam Bakoshi:Yeswecan
Niels ten Oever - Article19:Yeswecan
Niels ten Oever - Article19:goahead
Monika Zalnieriute:Ok, so do I speak now?
Niels ten Oever - Article19:Yes, pls go ahead
Niels ten Oever - Article19:Westilldon't hearyouMonika
MonikaZalnieriute:Cool, I hear everything, and I think I agree with Niels
matthew shears:areeNiels - we should focus where we add value and focus -forforexampleon CSR
Monika Zalnieriute:Iseeits pretty much clear that we should focus most of our attention on CSR,
Alexandra:Itmightbe useful to look at the Global Network Initiative experienceinHRaudit
Amr Elsadr:@Monika: I'm not entirely convinced that CSR should be the focus. The real needofHR consideration in ICANN is on how the policies affect domain name holders. This is done using the governance mechanisms via the contracts between ICANN and the registries and registrars, as well as the contracts between the registrars and the registrants.
AmrElsadr:I'mnotsayinthat CSR should be excluded, but it shouldn't dominate the focus of the group.
Avri Doria:aplogiesforbeinglate. ithoughtit was later.
matthew shears:@ Amr - understand your point re CSR - but I guess my feeling is that using that approach as an umbrella may make the issue for palatable
Amr Elsadr:@Matt: Looks interesting. Will have to put a couple of hours aside to go through it. :)
matthew shears:hasthisbeen circulated more broadlyLee?
jorgecancioGAC-Switzerland:willashort summary of this call be circulated?
matthew shears:Ithinkit will be very important going forward that this WP has the fullest visibility of what is going on vis-a-vis ICANN and HRbpothinside andoutsdideICANN
Amr Elsadr:Thanksall. Bye.
matthew shears:thanksNiels all
Chris LaHatte:thanks
Maryam Bakoshi:Thankyouall
jorgecancioGAC-Switzerland:thanks
AnrivdSpuy:Thanks.
Expand
Niel Ten Oever, Rafik Dammak, Amr Elsadr, Marilia Marciel, Benjamin Akinmoyeje, Jorge Cancio, Concettina Cassa, Chris Lahatte, Nigel Hickson, Alexandra, Lee Hibbard, Matthew Shears, Monika Zalnieruite, Megan Richards, Jean-Jacques Sahel, Stephania Milan, Avri Doria
