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15:59:00 From Silvia Vivanco - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    Hello all welcome
16:00:56 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
    Sorry. Zoom had to update
16:01:17 From Heidi Ullrich - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    Welcome, all.
16:02:32 From Silvia Vivanco - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    Please note for today's listening session, Melissa won't be able to join, Mary Wong will be moderating this session
16:05:17 From Eduardo Díaz to Everyone:
    Are these listening meetings happening in each region?
16:05:41 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
    Replying to "Are these listening ..."
    
    Trying, yes.
16:05:44 From Heidi Ullrich - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    @Eduardo Díaz , each RALO was asked if they wished to have a listening session
16:05:51 From Greg Shatan to Everyone:
    @Eduardo: That's the plan.
16:06:05 From Eduardo Díaz to Everyone:
    Thanks.
16:06:09 From avri doria to Everyone:
    did all RALO agree?
16:06:38 From Heidi Ullrich - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    No, EURALO is not having a session. LACRALO is still discussing the option.
16:06:52 From avri doria to Everyone:
    Replying to "No, EURALO is not ha..."
    
    thanks
16:07:06 From Heidi Ullrich - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    APRALO held their session last week and AFRALO will hold their listening session in July.
16:07:08 From Eduardo Díaz to Everyone:
    What is the policy that we have in place already?
16:07:44 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
    Replying to "What is the policy t..."
    
    We technically do NOT have a formal policy. Just a practice with no thoughts to exceptions.
16:07:56 From Alan Greenberg to Everyone:
    We have a practice at the moment, not a "policy
16:08:13 From Eduardo Díaz to Everyone:
    @Alan: That was my understanding.
16:08:50 From Greg Shatan to Everyone:
    FYI, Trump has been found guilty.
16:08:57 From Kathleen Scoggin (she/her) to Everyone:
    Reacted to "FYI, Trump has been ..." with 
16:09:07 From Eduardo Díaz to Everyone:
    @Greg: All counts?
16:09:07 From Justine Chew to Everyone:
    Reacted to "FYI, Trump has been ..." with 
16:09:12 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    Actually he was found guilty on one of the counts
16:09:31 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    it said at least one of the charges
16:09:42 From Evan Leibovitch to Everyone:
    rest still being read out
16:10:24 From Evan Leibovitch to Everyone:
    so far     12 guilty     0 not guilty     rest coming
16:11:28 From Evan Leibovitch to Everyone:
    all in     Guilty on all 34 counts
16:11:39 From Justine Chew to Everyone:
    Reacted to "all in
    Guilty on all..." with 
16:14:04 From Alan Greenberg to Everyone:
    In fact, the details of how a slot would be reallocated changed over time.
16:14:17 From Bill Jouris to Everyone:
    Reacted to "FYI, Trump has been ..." with ❗
16:14:27 From Bill Jouris to Everyone:
    Reacted to "all in
    Guilty on all..." with 
16:14:39 From Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    Glenn is on
16:14:50 From Glenn McKnight- CANADA to Everyone:
    Judith I have been distracted by the Trump ruling.
16:14:57 From Glenn McKnight- CANADA to Everyone:
    no voice , no criteria
16:15:04 From Glenn McKnight- CANADA to Everyone:
    no mic
16:15:21 From Alfredo Calderon to Everyone:
    Replying to "In fact, the details..."
    
    That is what for me makes it a little confusing. Is this for NARALO, only?
16:16:08 From Glenn McKnight- CANADA to Everyone:
    No formal criteria. But it seems what Alan is saying is correct
16:17:34 From Glenn McKnight- CANADA to Everyone:
    These other individuals could be more productive in policy comments and we need a proactive travel policy to acknowledge their work
16:17:49 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
    Reacted to "These other individu..." with 
16:17:50 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    Replying to "all in
    Guilty on all..."
    
    Trump Found Guilty By Jury On All 34 Counts In Hush Money Trial
16:17:51 From Eduardo Díaz to Everyone:
    Reacted to "These other individu..." with 
16:18:13 From Waqar Ahmad to Everyone:
    Reacted to "These other individu..." with 
16:18:16 From Glenn McKnight- CANADA to Everyone:
    A travel slot is not a right but a privilege
16:18:27 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    Exactly
16:18:29 From Evan Leibovitch to Everyone:
    What is least formalized is how to allocate when some of the 27 allocations open up when people cant travel due to health/visa/etc
16:18:32 From Glenn McKnight- CANADA to Everyone:
    Judith you are distracting me again:)
16:18:37 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    But there needs to be criteria to decide
16:18:45 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
    Reacted to "What is least formal..." with 
16:19:01 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    Reacted to "What is least formal..." with 
16:19:11 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    Reacted to "These other individu..." with 
16:20:28 From Glenn McKnight- CANADA to Everyone:
    We have seen in the past examples of people who did nothing but had a travel slot and this is a disincentive to everyone else who is working hard .
16:20:39 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    Reacted to "We have seen in the ..." with 
16:20:41 From Waqar Ahmad to Everyone:
    Reacted to "We have seen in the ..." with 
16:20:47 From Alfredo Calderon to Everyone:
    Reacted to "We have seen in the ..." with 
16:21:07 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    WE also stopped taking attendance at At Large meeting
16:21:45 From Alfredo Calderon to Everyone:
    Replying to "We have seen in the ..."
    
    Thus, we are starting to point to specific criteria for some TravelfUnded travelers.
16:22:00 From Glenn McKnight- CANADA to Everyone:
    Judith also we dropped the reporting requirement also
16:22:18 From Heidi Ullrich - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    @Judith Hellerstein , please note that staff do take attendance at At-Large meetings.
16:22:34 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    Replying to "@Judith Hellerstein ..."
    
    Good to hear
16:22:57 From Glenn McKnight- CANADA to Everyone:
    Replying to "@Judith Hellerstein ..."
    
    Maybe in body but not in soul:0
16:23:49 From Alfredo Calderon to Everyone:
    Attendance at specific working group meetings.
16:24:10 From Glenn McKnight- CANADA to Everyone:
    Agreed Judith, playing solitare doesn't count:)
16:25:29 From Bill Jouris to Everyone:
    Attendance is all very well.  But actual participation, speaking up occasionally, is a far better metric.
16:25:34 From Glenn McKnight- CANADA to Everyone:
    I don't think you need to wear a hair shirt and be at every meeting, you need to pick your focus and expertise
16:25:42 From avri doria to Everyone:
    participation has flavors. e.g. do you have face to face tasks or tasks that can be served just as well online.
16:25:49 From Glenn McKnight- CANADA to Everyone:
    Reacted to "I don't think you ne..." with 
16:25:51 From Alfredo Calderon to Everyone:
    2. Contributing as a member of various initiatives that are undergoing - Outreach and Engagement as a volunteer from At Large and reporting back to the RALO, CPWG, OFB-WG, etc.
16:25:56 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
    Reacted to "participation has fl..." with 
16:26:10 From Evan Leibovitch to Everyone:
    Problem is, "active" can be in the eye of the beholder. It can be in quality rather than quality. And the most important person to send to a specific meeting might be directly relevant to the hot topic of the day but not otherwise involved.
16:26:24 From Alfredo Calderon to Everyone:
    Reacted to "participation has fl..." with 
16:26:29 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    Reacted to "2. Contributing as a..." with 
16:26:30 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
    Reacted to "Problem is, "active"..." with 
16:26:47 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    Reacted to "Problem is, "active"..." with 
16:26:59 From Waqar Ahmad to Everyone:
    Reacted to "2. Contributing as a..." with 
16:27:06 From Glenn McKnight- CANADA to Everyone:
    Reacted to "2. Contributing as a..." with 
16:27:16 From Alfredo Calderon to Everyone:
    Reacted to "Problem is, "active"..." with 
16:27:23 From Kathleen Scoggin (she/her) to Everyone:
    Reacted to "Problem is, "active"..." with 
16:28:03 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    Also help in planning at large sessions
16:28:46 From Alfredo Calderon to Everyone:
    Active — implies some form of tangent outcomes.
16:28:50 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    So active in the At Large Planning sessions
16:29:10 From Evan Leibovitch to Everyone:
    At the end of the day, At-Large leadership is there because the RALOs and ALSs (and for about one-fifth, the NomCom) want them there. Coming up with a policy (or practice) that in any way seeks to override this is problematic.
16:29:14 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    Yes, we had an issue in naralo doing that
16:30:56 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    we have 29 slots
16:31:31 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    alac chair has a slot separate from the ralos
16:31:37 From Eduardo Díaz to Everyone:
    The challenge will be on how to measure if the person is active or not in an objective manner.
16:35:29 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    Also how to allocate the ALAC slots.  There are 3 ALAC slots per RALO
16:35:43 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    So all 5 should be open to discussion
16:35:46 From avri doria to Everyone:
    Some of the most effective doers I have met in my lie sit in coffee shops talking to people all day getting bunches issues resolved, work on text suggestions, or coming up with solution that can be proposed.  Many different ways to get work done and be effective
16:36:10 From Eduardo Díaz to Everyone:
    Reacted to "Some of the most eff..." with 
16:36:16 From Alfredo Calderon to Everyone:
    Reacted to "Some of the most eff..." with 
16:36:53 From Bill Jouris to Everyone:
    When the ICANN budget comes out, how does *IT* characterize the travel funds that ALAC has?
16:37:05 From Evan Leibovitch to Everyone:
    Replying to "The challenge will b..."
    
    "Objective" will be nearly impossible to do here in a way that will please everyone.
16:37:53 From Alfredo Calderon to Everyone:
    Replying to "The challenge will b..."
    
    Agree, Evan.  We will not be able to please everyone, all the time.
16:38:37 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    But we do need to have certain criteria
16:38:50 From Bill Jouris to Everyone:
    Replying to "The challenge will b..."
    
    "Objective", as in crystal clear in all cases, is not possible.  But specific critera as INPUT to a decision is not unreasonable
16:39:08 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    to see who merits a spot
16:40:46 From Mary Wong - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    Bill, I see your question about the budget and will address it after we take the other comments currently in the queue. I hope that’s ok.
16:42:26 From avri doria to Everyone:
    Judith is it about meriting a spot or having a RALO objective that makes them the best person to send?
16:42:29 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    Yes I recall the huge battle over the liaison slots
16:43:31 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    @avri doria I mean meriting the spot because of the work they have done or are doing
16:44:58 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    Also if the meeting is in a particular region than crop slots could be used to supplement the number of spots
16:45:48 From Glenn McKnight- CANADA to Everyone:
    More reason to mentor folks
16:46:39 From Evan Leibovitch to Everyone:
    Correct. Things change.     But consider something else that's changed.     Virtual calls like the one we're on were impossible 15 years ago. So travel is not necessary for someone to be  a full participant in a meeting.     So a different set of questions -- why does someone need to BE THERE in person at a time when Zoom participation is now so trivial.
16:47:23 From Eduardo Díaz to Everyone:
    @Evan: Networking and continue discussions on whatever
16:47:50 From Bill Jouris to Everyone:
    Replying to "Correct. Things chan..."
    
    Basically, being there allows informal interactions, networking, etc.  Which make virtual meetings like this work better
16:48:42 From Alan Greenberg to Everyone:
    ICANN meeting re only one aspect of ICANN activities.  Being active and engaged is not done only through in person meetings. And in fact, if your only activity is in person, you are not a real participant.
16:48:52 From Alfredo Calderon to Everyone:
    @Evan, besides timezone issues play a strong concern to engage with others between sessions. Thus, networking and “lobbying” is important for some.
16:49:01 From Glenn McKnight- CANADA to Everyone:
    @ Everyone I have worked hard on Mentoring Judith, Adrian, Rooky(Bibi) and Waqar in helping understand the ICANN space, its important to recruit folks but you need to help these folks
16:49:50 From Glenn McKnight- CANADA to Everyone:
    I thought at least one of the three for ICANN meeting within region
16:49:59 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    Yes Mary that is excellent way
16:50:44 From Glenn McKnight- CANADA to Everyone:
    Very interesting meeting with lots of opinions from old salts to newbies:)
16:51:10 From Bill Jouris to Everyone:
    Thank you for clearing that up, Mary
16:52:05 From Glenn McKnight- CANADA to Everyone:
    the ATLAS process has illustrated maturing of the process
16:52:31 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
    Reacted to "the ATLAS process ha..." with 
16:54:56 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    Yes but we saw that hybrid meetings are good but meeting on the side of a meeting saw more things getting done
16:55:09 From Eduardo Díaz to Everyone:
    Time zones are an issue in participating reemotelly
16:55:15 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    exactly
16:55:18 From avri doria to Everyone:
    sometimes, even for policy, those leading the mtg and responsible for the outcome can often be more effective if colocted.
16:55:32 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    Reacted to "sometimes, even for ..." with 
16:55:33 From avri doria to Everyone:
    … collocated...
16:55:42 From avri doria to Everyone:
    can type. sorry
16:55:49 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
    Reacted to "sometimes, even for ..." with 
16:55:51 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    exactly Avri
16:56:36 From Alan Greenberg to Everyone:
    A R2F meeting can be FAR more productive than a virtual meeting. But does that apply for people who virtually never actively participate remotely?
16:56:39 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    It is the chance to meet people in the hallways, getting in front of higher staff for a few minutes. these are invaluable
16:57:07 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    Replying to "A R2F meeting can be..."
    
    Yes Alan, that is correct
16:57:18 From avri doria to Everyone:
    and it is also important that new folks get to go at least once to know what they are involved in.  or is the fellowship &c supposed to handle all that?
16:57:19 From Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    Time check - we have 5 minutes left
16:58:01 From avri doria to Everyone:
    now, with drive collaborative work tools, it is easier to sit around the table online.
16:58:24 From Eduardo Díaz to Everyone:
    So, what are the next steps after these listening meetings? Is there a timeline behind this?
16:59:23 From Kathleen Scoggin (she/her) to Everyone:
    Also important to consider the 1 week (or so) for a meeting where people are able to potentially take leave from their jobs and actively participate in policymaking especially when many of the at-large meetings are in the middle of the workday for North America
16:59:29 From Bill Jouris to Everyone:
    +1 Judith!
17:01:32 From Silvia Vivanco - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    Staff will collate the main points of all RALO calls
17:01:37 From Evan Leibovitch to Everyone:
    Replying to "now, with drive coll..."
    
    I've worked on Google docs which five people are editing simultaneously. It's possible but seriously degraded next to being F2F.
17:01:40 From Mary Wong - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    Reacted to "Staff will collate t..." with 
17:01:41 From Silvia Vivanco - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    We will create a google doc
17:01:50 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    Yes and saving the chat is really important
17:01:57 From Mary Wong - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    Reacted to "Yes and saving the c..." with 
17:01:57 From Alfredo Calderon to Everyone:
    It makes sense to have some impartial small group to create the initial document.
17:02:08 From Jonathan Zuck to Everyone:
    Thanks everyone. Great conversation.
17:02:09 From Glenn McKnight- CANADA to Everyone:
    @silvia also some of the tangible actions to improve the process
17:02:17 From Glenn McKnight- CANADA to Everyone:
    Reacted to "It makes sense to ha..." with 
17:03:14 From Silvia Vivanco - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    Reacted to "@silvia also some of..." with 
17:03:42 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    Reacted to "@silvia also some of..." with 
17:03:55 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    I would be interested in hearing what the other ralos decided
17:04:01 From Judith Hellerstein to Everyone:
    and discussed
17:04:05 From Justine Chew to Everyone:
    Happy to have listened at my 5am :)
17:04:11 From Claudia Ruiz - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    It is now @Greg Shatan
17:04:16 From Mary Wong - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    Reacted to "Happy to have listen..." with 
17:04:21 From Waqar Ahmad to Everyone:
    Very productive discussion
17:04:21 From Kathleen Scoggin (she/her) to Everyone:
    Thanks all!
17:04:25 From Silvia Vivanco - ICANN Org to Everyone:
    Thank you all !
17:04:26 From Waqar Ahmad to Everyone:
    Thanks all
17:04:28 From Alfredo Calderon to Everyone:
    Thank you for the conversation.