The next Privacy & Proxy Services Accreditation Issues PDP WG teleconference is scheduled for Tuesday 04 November 2014 at 1500 UTC
Please be aware that the clocks will have changed in some parts of the world, and in others not yet, so refer to the other times link below to ensure you join the meeting at the correct time. UTC time has been adjusted.
07:00 PST, 10:00 EST, 15:00 London, 16:00 CET
For other times: http://tinyurl.com/ohrcwy9
Adobe Connect WITH AUDIO enabled: https://icann.adobeconnect.com/ppsai/
Agenda:
- Roll Call/Updates to SOI
Brief discussion of next steps for Category F, including sessions with LEA and DPA representatives
Commence deliberations on Category G - Termination
Next meeting/next steps
Attendees:
Steve Metalitz - IPC
Graeme Bunton – RrSG
Frank Michlick – Individual
Don Blumenthal – RySG
David Heasley-IPC
Jim Bikoff-IPC
Chris Pelling – RrSG
Justin Macy - BC
Susan Kawaguchi – BC
Kristina Rosette – IPC
Darcy Southwell – RrSG
Sarah Wyld – RrSG
Val Sherman – IPC
Todd Williams – IPC
Phil Corwin – BC
Volker Greimann - RrSG
Holly Raiche – ALAC
Theo Geurts - RrSG
Stephanie Perrin - NCSG
David Cake - NCSG
Susan Prosser – RrSG
Libby Baney – BC
Eric Brunner-Williams-N/A
Luc Seufer – RrSG
Philip Marano-IPC
Lindsay Hamilton-Reid-RrSG
Kiran Malancharuvil-IPC
Carlton Samuels – At-Large
Apologies:
Michele Neylon – RrSG
Alex Deacon – IPC
Kathy Kleiman – NCSG
Victoria Scheckler - IPC
David Hughes-IPC
James Bladel – RrSG
Paul McGrady – IPC
Osvaldo Novoa - ISPCP
Keith Kupferschmid-IPC
Christian Dawson-ISPCP
ICANN staff:
Mary Wong
Terri Agnew
Adobe Connect chat transcript for Tuesday 04 November 2014:
Terri Agnew:Welcome to the PPSAI call on 04 November 2014
Chris Pelling:afternoon all
Holly Raiche:Hi Terri. Did I request a dial out?
Terri Agnew:Hi Holly, you did not but I amhaving the op dial out to you now
Holly Raiche:Tks - 61 2 9436 2149
Graeme Bunton:Crank calls for Holly!
Holly Raiche:It's 2.00am - I promise not to answer!
Theo Geurts::)
Graeme Bunton:Volker!
Terri Agnew:Please remember to mute when not speaking
Theo Geurts:Volker instructing folks at work hehe
Val Sherman::)
Philip Corwin:Good morning all
Volker Greimann 2:now?
Graeme Bunton:better
Theo Geurts:all good now Volker
Terri Agnew:Stephabnie Perrin has joined
Terri Agnew:**Stephanie Perrin
Libby Baney:Don, I'm having a bit of trouble hearing you through Adobe. Anyone else?
Libby Baney:yeah, thanks!
Graeme Bunton:sounds ok to me
David Cake:fine with me too.
Terri Agnew:Lindsay Hamilton-Reid has joined
Lindsay Hamilton-Reid:Apologies for being late.
Luc Seufer:operator said you spkoe too close to the mic
Terri Agnew:Phil Marano has joined
Sarah Wyld - Aplus.net:If there's privacy on the domain, wouldn't the IP right holder not be able to know if a licensed user is using it?
Sarah Wyld - Aplus.net:B/c there's privacy they can't see who the user is.
Sarah Wyld - Aplus.net:(Personally I still don't think it's a good reason to reveal)
Luc Seufer:Isn't the use of the domain name important? And "revealing" who is using the domain?
David Cake:Surely if they have had rights granted, they would respond to a relayed request?
Holly Raiche:@ david - you would think so
Philip Corwin:Agree with discussing reveal further offline -- and clarifying again that my concerns rekate solely to automatice reveal based solely on allegation of infringement based solely on domain name (for which UDRP & URS exist) rather than allegations of, e.g., sale of counterfeit goods on the website.
Philip Corwin:And agree with David that an authorized user would likely respond to a relayed request.
Terri Agnew:Keith Kupferschmid sends his apologies
Eric Brunner-Williams (ebw):just a comment on registrar deacreditation, this assumes that there is deaccreditation for reasons other than non-payment, as a general rule.
Holly Raiche:@ Eris - that was my understanding
Holly Raiche:@ Stephanie - absolutely agree with the issues you are raising
Mary Wong:The ICANN Compliance Dept publishes a monthly dashboard/report: https://features.icann.org/compliance
Holly Raiche:What hat raises is the issue of transfer of a P/P client - which we have discussed but not necessarily solved
Mary Wong:Part of the monthly report deals with Complaints and Enforcement; see this for an example of what they deal with: https://features.icann.org/compliance/enforcement-notices
Eric Brunner-Williams (ebw):i think seperation of the registrar and the p/p services will help, only want to terminate the p/p if only the p/p tos is substantively and repeatedly breeched.
Carlton Samuels:Howdy all
Holly Raiche:Morning Carlton
Eric Brunner-Williams (ebw):and only want to terminate the registrar service only if the registrar tos (raa08, raa13) is similarly breached.
Stephanie Perrin:Totally agree with Phil on the mixing point. Need clarity here.
Stephanie Perrin:Also need clarity....if a registrar is de-accredited, the PP service is separate in my view.
Holly Raiche:I thought we jumped right into deaccreditation of the provider
Volker Greimann 2:de-accreditation does not equal full disclosure
Carlton Samuels:The arrnagement is for independent accreditation for P/P provider and Rr. So deaccreditation process must be separate for both.
Holly Raiche:@ Volker - I think we are talking about de-accreditation of the provider - not about disclosure of details of the registrant
Mary Wong:@Susan, thanks - we will check with our Rr Services & Compliance colleagues and get back to the WG.
Susan Kawaguchi:Thanks Mary
Eric Brunner-Williams (ebw):the question to ask if when icann (mike z) sends out "who wants to pick up the registrants of deaccredited registrar X", is an additional condition that the new registrar offer p/p previously.
Stephanie Perrin:ONe of the issues, it seems to me, is how my PP service is transferred...if I select a provider based on whether they will defend me in case of IP claims, and the new provider chosen by ICANN does not, what are my appeal mechanisms?How fast do I have to move? it is a matter that is somewhat more consequential, when one has taken the effort to use a proxy..
Carlton Samuels:If we think deaccreditation of the one MUST impact the other in cases where the P/P procvider is also a Rr provider, then we use a 'fit and proper' framework
Susan Kawaguchi:agree Carlton
Mary Wong:2013 RAA: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/approved-with-specs-2013-09-17-en
Mary Wong:Termination is in Section 5.5
Holly Raiche:Agre with Stephanie - it is one of the issues tha flows from de-accreditation
Stephanie Perrin:@Carlton yes re separation of business lines
Eric Brunner-Williams (ebw):iirc, if X has registrants in {com,net,org} then the registrars who respond to mike z's sollicitation mail must previously have at least passed ot&e with the {com/net} and {org} registry providers. rinse and repeat for the 2000 and 2004 and now 2013 sets of operators.
Terri Agnew:Kiran Malancharuvil has joined audio
Eric Brunner-Williams (ebw):so p/p is an additional constraint on the set of would-be failover registrars.
Graeme Bunton:Could be we need a bit more time to go over the template.
Mary Wong:Current interim spec: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/approved-with-specs-2013-09-17-en#privacy-proxy
steve metalitz:ICANN does currently send breach notices to registrars that operate p/p services, which could lead to de-accreditation of the registrar, see https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/serad-to-elizarov-31oct14-en.pdf
Eric Brunner-Williams (ebw):steve, same t&c as for raa breach?
Terri Agnew:Carlton Samuels has joined
Eric Brunner-Williams (ebw):same cure window?
steve metalitz:@Eric, the link is to an RAA breach notice so I think the answer to your questions is yes
Stephanie Perrin:I agree with Graeme, It would be nice to get more time to go over all these links. Sorry for not having done assigned homework.
Eric Brunner-Williams (ebw):ok, since it is possible to serially in-breach/not-in-breach via recurring cure (e.g., whois server down, up, down, ...). it would not be appropriate for serial breach of p/p either way (disclosure w/o reason or non-disclosure w/reason).
Mary Wong:@Steve, thanks yes, the WG has some specific recs for customer obligations so those would "count" for TOS/T&C breach, presumably.
Chris Pelling:are we looking to have a f2f in singapore ?
Chris Pelling:being next feb now
Chris Pelling:ta
Mary Wong:@Chris, presumably the WG will have its usual meeting, but there won't be the additional day of facilitation as there was in LA
Philip Corwin:FYI, I will miss next Tuesday's call as I will be flying to Phoenix for INTA Leadership meeting.
Mary Wong:Thanks for letting us know, Phil - we'll note your apologies.
Philip Corwin:Bye all
Volker Greimann 2:thank you all
Luc Seufer:thanks
David Cake:thank you all
Carlton Samuels:Thanks all
Carlton Samuels:bye
