The next Privacy & Proxy Services Accreditation Issues PDP WG teleconference is scheduled for Tuesday 04 March 2014 at 1500 UTC (07:00 PST, 10:00 EST, 15:00 London, 16:00 CET).
Adobe Connect WITH AUDIO enabled: https://icann.adobeconnect.com/ppsai/
Agenda:
- Roll call/SOI updates (3 mins)
- Presentations on P/P services and different business models (30 mins)
- Last call for finalization of template on Category B Question 1 (7 mins)
- Continuation of discussion of template on Category B Question 2 (15 mins)
- Planning for Singapore (5 mins)
Questions from last week for further discussion (Cat B Question 2):
- What would be the arguments for not using the same standards / requirements for validation and verification as per the 2013 RAA?
- Should there be a requirement for re-verification, and if so, what instances would trigger such re-verification?
- In case of affiliation between the P/P service and the registrar, if the registration information has already been verified by the registrar, should this exempt the P/P provider from doing so?
- Should the same requirements apply to privacy and proxy services or is there a reason to distinguish between the two?
Documents for Review:
Other Information:
- Nominet Input to Whois Review Team
- NORC Study on on Whois Data Accuracy (2010) - note that methodology for P/P services is specifically outlined in Appendix 3.
MP3 Recording: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-ppsa-20140304-en.mp3
Meeting Transcript: http://gnso.icann.org/en/meetings/transcript-ppsa-04mar14-en.pdf
Attendees:
Luc Seufer - RrSG
Volker Greimann - RrSG
Graeme Bunton – RrSG
Tim Ruiz – RrSG
Sarah Wyld – RrSG
David Heasley - IPC
James Bladel - RrSG
Steve Metalitz - IPC
Kathy Kleiman – RySGgr
Justin Macy - BC
Darcy Southwell - RrSG
Alex Deacon - IPC
Todd Williams – IPC
Don Blumenthal - RySG
Libby Baney - BC
Phil Marano – IPC
Jim Bikoff – IPC
Griffin Barnett - IPC
Roy Balleste – NCUC
Amr Elsadr - NCUC
Kiran Malancharuvil – IPC
David Cake - NCSG
Valeriya Sherman – IPC
Marie-Laure Lemineur – NPOC
John Horton – BC
Stephanie Perrin – NCSG
Michele Neylon – RrSG
Jennifer Standiford – RrSG
Carlton Samuels – ALAC
Maria Farrell – NCUC
Apologies:
Paul McGrady
Tobias Sattler - RrSG
Marika Konings – staff
Joe Catapano - staff
ICANN staff:
Mary Wong
Margie Milam
Amy Bivins
Mike Zupke
Terri Agnew
Nathalie Peregrine
Adobe Connect chat transcript for Tuesday 04 March 2014:
Terri Agnew:Welcome to the PPSAI WG Meeting on 04 March 2014
Volker Greimann:Hi Mary, hi Terri
Terri Agnew:Hello Volker
Mary Wong:Welcome, Volker!
Volker Greimann:can you turn on microphone connection on the adobe?
Nathalie Peregrine:Apologies Volker, done now!
Kathy Kleiman:Hi All!
Mary Wong:Welcome everyone; good morning/afternoon/evening all!
Nathalie Peregrine:Marie-Laure Lemineur and Michele Neylon have joined the call
Mary Wong:FYI we have "un-sync'ed" the slides so you can scroll up and down on your own screen using the arrow keys.
Terri Agnew:Jim Bikoff has joined audio
Terri Agnew:David Cake has joined audio
Terri Agnew:Amr Elsadr has joined
Terri Agnew:Kiran Malancharuvil has joined
Terri Agnew:Jennifer Standiford has joined
Kathy Kleiman:Tx you Volker!
Michele Neylon:Can anyone hear him?
Mary Wong:Yes - are you able to, Michele?
Don Blumenthal:I can
Michele Neylon:hmmm
Michele Neylon:I'll dial in
Terri Agnew:Michele - Let me know if you need us to dial out to you
Volker Greimann:yup, we do that too, left that out
Terri Agnew:Michele - I don't see your mic is active on adobe connect
Kathy Kleiman:Tx you Graeme!
Volker Greimann:If anyone is interested, our service is located at whoisproxy.org
Michele Neylon:Terri - I didn't want to speak
Amr Elsadr::)
Graeme Bunton:Our terms are here: https://contactprivacy.com/?action=wp_mailer_show_terms
Terri Agnew:Phil Marano has joined
Graeme Bunton:thx James
Kathy Kleiman:Tx James!
Amr Elsadr:Thanks James.
Bladel:DBP Terms of Service: https://www.domainsbyproxy.com/policy/ShowDoc.aspx?pageid=domain_nameproxy
Libby Baney:Thanks to all speakers
Carlton Samuels:Hi everbyody
Terri Agnew:Carlton I have you noted on attendance
Carlton Samuels:Thks Terri. Apologies for late connection; intervening priority needed attention
Kiran Malancharuvil:Steve, I Can barely hear you, can you speak up?
Kathy Kleiman:Sorry, but can't hear you Steve.
Tim Ruiz:Can Steve speak up please?
Luc Seufer:can't hear Steve
Kiran Malancharuvil:I think maybe someone else isn't on mute?
Carlton Samuels:Yes, much better
Kiran Malancharuvil:better
Terri Agnew:I am asking op to increase his volume
Volker Greimann:I can answer Steve
Michele Neylon:we're not obliged to
Michele Neylon:not sure what he's asking
Michele Neylon:we are obliged to check email or phone
Michele Neylon:under 2013
Michele Neylon:(we aren't on 2013)
Luc Seufer:this is how we handleit http://help.eurodns.com/customer/portal/articles/1439035-what-is-the-contact-validation-policy-
Luc Seufer:(we don't offer p/p services ourselves)
Carlton Samuels:@Volker: To be sure, IF there is a problem with the domain in your case it is the registrar that initiaites contact with the registrant of record, not the p/p provider?
Graeme Bunton:also, to be clear, we don't offer our service to other registrars.
Graeme Bunton:Domains need to be in OpenSRS
Bladel:Not applicable in Arizona. :)
steve metalitz:QUESTION for James, Volker, Graeme: Are Whois rdata eminders sent annually to p/p cusomters, and if so by whom (registrar or p/pp provider).?
Bladel:Good question, I'll have to check that one.
Libby Baney:Stephanie - could you share a cite to the Canada law you mentioned?
Stephanie Perrin:Sure, I will do it via email if that is ok....
steve metalitz:Sorry for typos: "customer" and "p/p provider"
Libby Baney:Thanks, that'd be great!
Graeme Bunton:Steve - i am reasonably sure they are sent to p/p customers, and I believe that they are sent by the registrar
Graeme Bunton:will confirm
Kathy Kleiman:+1 Michele
Amr Elsadr:+1 Michele. :)
Libby Baney:Question to Volker -- you mentioned your service finds it an abuse of the service for use of domains for commercial purposes. May I ask, how do you define "commercial" in this context?
Michele Neylon:only .cat and .tel
Michele Neylon:in gtlds
Stephanie Perrin:@Volker...given current sentiment about global privacy, seems like a good time to take a few cases to Court. :-)
Michele Neylon:hinted?
Michele Neylon:German understatement at its finest
Amr Elsadr:Isn't there the ICANN procedure for handling whois conflict with privacy laws? Why don't registrars use it?
Carlton Samuels:@Michele: The ICANN response has always been the registrant makes an agreement to publish when they buy the domain. The question has always been informed consent and whether it is given. Have to say in support of what you say we now have a better understanding of the relationship between data privacy law and WHOIS.
Michele Neylon:Amr - it's broken
Michele Neylon:Carlton - it needs to be fixed
Volker Greimann:The devil will skate to work before that happens
Volker Greimann:(ICANN looking into privacy)
Luc Seufer:This is how we are dealing that
Luc Seufer:The Customer understands and accepts that in the case of denial of the disclosure specified herein, the Domain Name Service cannot be provided and that any request to delete the Personal Data after the registration of the Domain Name will automatically entail the deletion of the Domain Name.
Carlton Samuels:@Michele: No question about that! And a holistic fix is the preferred approach
Amr Elsadr:@Michele: I hope you can explain to me why it's broken some time.
Volker Greimann:I have started on the surveymonkey, but it just never ends...
maria farrell:hi all, sorry to be joining for the last few minutes. IETF week in London coinciding with Too Much Work!
Luc Seufer:same as Volker. I'll need to open a good bottle of wine and sit down for 2 hours to complete it. ;-)
Stephanie Perrin:@Carlton, agreed....and sorry to repeat the harangue I have been on in the EWG, but in Canada that would be a coerced consent, and not acceptable under 4.3.3 of the Schedule to the Act
Michele Neylon:Amr - it's very simple, - look at the current process - read it and if you can't see why it's broken I can explain it :)
Amr Elsadr:OK. Thanks Michele. :)
steve metalitz:@Kathy, what is missing from the B.1 summary? As distinct from B.2 where there has been a lot of list activity re B.2.
Luc Seufer:@stephanie you are welcome to register a .fr domain name where your right to privacy will be respected.
Luc Seufer:until ICANN acknowledges local laws, ccTLDs are the way to go.
Michele Neylon:She can't register a .fr or a .eu
Michele Neylon:due to nexus requirements
Michele Neylon:stop teasing her!
Kathy Kleiman:My concern is much more for the next table we look at...
Mary Wong:This template is similar to what has been used to collate, review and respond to public comments by other WGs. We most definitely will include ALL responses received for the WG to review again.
Luc Seufer:I am ready to act as proxy for her !
Terri Agnew:Maria Farrell has joined
Stephanie Perrin:@Luc, maybe I will register the french versions of my domains there, thanks:-)...or move to Tucows and drive Graeme nuts with complaints.....
Bladel:Need to drop, thanks everyone.
Graeme Bunton:@Stephanie I can recommend lots of wonderful other registrars.
Tim Ruiz:Need to go. Thanks Don an all!
maria farrell:I support the idea of talking to cc's - they have a variety of approaches to these things, though luckily only one set of laws to comply with !
Graeme Bunton:Blacknight for example would love to have your domains.
Tim Ruiz:@Maria +1
maria farrell:Michele yo uhave all my hosting already!
Michele Neylon:Maria - )
maria farrell:;-)
Michele Neylon::)
Volker Greimann:thank you Mary
maria farrell:thanks everyone. talk next week.
Luc Seufer:@ Maria apparently you are not complaining enough
Kiran Malancharuvil:thanks Don.
maria farrell:heehee luc
maria farrell:bye all
Justin Macy:bye
Luc Seufer:bye
Carlton Samuels:Bye all
Carlton Samuels:Great discussion
Carlton Samuels:Grist for the EWG mill
Mary Wong:Thanks everyone.
