Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) So, let's go ahead and start the meeting, then.
So, Dev, you know, first of all, if you could tell us a bit more about the change in procedure that's been happening so we can actually, you know, comment on that subject, if possible.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Very well.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) Go ahead, Dev.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay. This is Dev. Hello, everyone. The procedures for doing the teleconferences have been – have changed. What's happening is that all of the meetings are being transcribed, both in English and on the Spanish – and in Spanish. So, there's no meeting minutes being produced. So, no meeting minutes but rather the transcripts, which will be made available at least 48 hours after the – after this meeting.
So, I think it's important – because it's a transcript, it's very important that, you know, that when you're speaking to, you know, state your name before because – so that – you – it's (unintelligible) in the transcripts. So – and that is about – those are – that's really the key things. So be sure, again, state your name just before you speak so that we know – so we know who is speaking in the transcript when we review it later on.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) Thank you, Dev.
Okay. So, let's go ahead and start with the meeting, then. First of all, you know, in the apologies we have Mr. Salinas from what we see on the list. Is there anybody else that's apologized? Do you know if there's anybody else that's apologized?
Heidi Ullrich: I don't know of anybody else.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) Carlton, it's really a pleasure to have you here, says Andres, because we do have a big agenda to do today. So, we had a lot of people present and in the Spanish channel, Spanish (unintelligible). We have that on the record now for the meeting.
So, you know, point number three of this agenda is basically the review of the action items for July 16th. And there's an actual link that many of you can look at. And we will be posting that on the Skype channel as well so you can take a look at that. And I'm also posting the agenda as well on the Skype channel in both languages, and as well as the list of the people that are present.
Now we have, you know, point four, the public comment period. In particular, we want to discuss, you know, the – obviously politics of At Large development policy. And then, of course, we have point five, which is the elections for 2009 for At Large, and as well for elections 2009 for LACRALO.
For point six, of course, we have, you know, the travel issues that are going to happen. We also have for the session of August 11th. And finally, we'll have an actual summary of the Cross-RALO teleconference that we had recently. And then we'll have the final points for the Seoul meeting, excuse me, and then we'll have an update on the ALAC activities.
And especially in point five, at some point I will want to discuss about the people who actually have been validated for the actual positions so we can all actually comment. And obviously, if anybody wants to discuss any other subjects or wants to make any other comments, then please let me know.
You know, there's also the prep meeting for Rio that – you know, that is going to be happening soon that I will be attending as LACRALO President. And you know, make any other comments on other possibilities, but they are not as exact or strict on what we've dealt with so far, but on just things that we can work on for the future.
So now, then, let's talk about point three, then. But before we even go there, does anybody else want to add anything else on the agenda?
Vanda Scartezini: No.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) And nobody on the Spanish channel? So, let's go ahead and deal with the agenda. And I've actually posted the link to the Skype channel. If nobody else has anything to say, then we'll continue with this agenda in that case.
Interpreter: And no, nothing so far, Andres.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) And you know, we also want to discuss the NomCom nominations for ALAC; you know, specifically the person that we will be choosing.
Have you – I'm sorry, Carlos, have you – what did you say?
Carlos Aguirre: (Interpreted.) No, what I was asking is, is if that's going to be a point of discussion in the agenda about the NomCom nomination.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) Well, see, that's just it. Point five is actually going to be dealing with that, you know, because it's going to be dealing for the LACRALO elections as far as the At Large elections. And it's two links that I've already posted. Those have also been posted on the list. And I've actually done a lot of that work. Not officially, of course. But there's been some translation work in Spanish. It's not an official translation because, you know, that's not my job. But you know, when we speak at that point five, then we will discuss that issue because that's also another one of my concerns, Carlos. So then, may we proceed then? Very well.
So, in regards to the agenda, there's – I know that the staff, they usually post the agenda with the secretary and the president, who usually do an excellent job. As you guys know, the agenda is usually published before the meeting, before the teleconference. So, you guys always have the option to either add or, you know, clarify points in the agenda. You know, that's something that, you know, a lot of you guys have not used. You know, I don't know if it's because it's not been posted on time sometimes, or what's been happening but, you know, that is an option.
So, now let's go ahead and continue. We're going to go to point three, which is the review provision of the action items. We have a list and there's actually four points that we have to discuss on that. And thank you, Heidi, because you posted that on the Skype channel. And it's four issues that actually have to do with our possible techniques and, you know, solutions that we may reach and you see these solutions there.
Heidi, we had a teleconference with the staff and with Dev. And we discussed, you know, the issue on technical alternatives and we actually reached a solution. I think, Dev or Heidi, you can actually explain this a bit more in detail if possible. I don't know if each of you would like to take the forum.
Heidi Ullrich: Dev, go ahead first, Dev.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) But you know, I think that it would be something good for this. And it's very clear in the way it's been published, but I'd like for either Dev or Heidi to speak of it more in regards to that, if possible.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay. This is Dev Anand. As I talked on the subsequent teleconference we had with ICANN staff, that myself and the chair had, it was mentioned that the Adigo system is probably the best way to do it, to actually allow for the LACRALO meeting to take place. And I think what has happened is persons have to review the, you know, possibly review, you know, how to participate in this meeting, as I think it mentions there in the chart. Yeah. And thanks, Heidi, for posting the Spanish link there as well. We can – and perhaps review it because I think it's quite possible that persons haven't properly followed all of the steps to actually do so. That was the key point from point number one. I don't know if Heidi has something else to say on that or add to that.
Heidi Ullrich: No, I – Dev, I think that was a very good summary. Thank you.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay.
Heidi Ullrich: But we will, of course, keep using the Skype chat and we can explore further the use of the Adobe Connect. But it's very important to use landlines, for example.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Yeah, this is Dev. Yes, that's true also.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) And that is very true that, you know, just because it is a better quality. It's true that, you know, cell phones – you know, and I am on a cell phone and I do apologize for that, so--.
And so, in regards to these four action items, you know, I do have to say that, you know, these are not necessarily, you know, short term or long term. They're more long term. It's really a matter of working more to be able to improve. Obviously, you know, all of you can give your opinions and even more suggestions on how to improve.
Now, point two, this is the working group proposal. I personally thought it was a bit extreme because there is an actual document that's been published for the current At Large groups and then the ALAC agenda as well. And the ICANN agenda as well. So, you know, these are things that, you know, we're gonna have to look into more in detail.
Sylvia, I know they did a great job. You know, and this stuff really spoke about, you know, a lot of the working groups and, you know, how they're very static and, you know, and ways to actually improving and actually making progress. And you know, and just for example, to have one of the LACRALO members always choose one subject and then present that subject for the next month. And that does work. And as Sylvia did, for example. So, you know, we obviously, you know, have to find a way to continue this.
And guys, I'm so sorry (in English).
Interpreter: You know what? Andres sounds a bit muffled, so let me just see if I can do something about the sound, okay? Give me one second.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay.
Heidi Ullrich: Thank you.
Interpreter: So, let me go ahead and just ask for a clarification on the point he just mentioned.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) Okay. So, we had accomplished, you know, a working group and having different people in different teleconferences, you know, for people to be involved for several months and to actually be able to summarize and to actually propose certain subjects. And you know, this is something that we've been trying to do.
You know, Sylvia just did a recent job. She was an analyst and so she worked on that subject. At the same time, though, you know, when there's an advancement of something that somebody has proposed, a lot of the times there is a lack of clarification or information in the organization, mainly on what LACRALO does.
You know, there's an example. For example, there's somebody who is very close to the community who asked me a question, for example, who sent me a statement in regards to the subject. And so, we had an internal discussion. So then, Sylvia's work then was not actually processed correctly and then we were told that it was gonna take long and it seemed like it was going to be a statement. So, if somebody else here shares that opinion.
You know. I was kind of surprised, actually, about that question that was asked of me. So, if there is a way to maybe organize this type of information, this dynamic, to improve point two--. And you know, I know that I'm speaking a lot and I don't like the fact that I'm the only one that does a lot of the talking also in these teleconferences. So, if anybody else has something else to say about that?
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: This is the chair. This is Dev Anand. Sorry, this is the secretariat. This is Dev Anand. Well, just to follow up with something here, the At Large policy advice development scheduled was redesigned. So, if you haven't looked at it recently, you know, it looks very different from – well, it looks very different from last month's development schedule. And so – and I helped do the redesign because I was trying to simplify and make it easier for people to follow exactly on what topics are new. Because you can now sort the information, you can sort when the public consultation closes.
And so – and this is a part of my – what I was also trying to do is trying to link persons in LACRALO who are interested in these issues. So, what I was – I was hearing what you were saying, Andres, but I wasn't too sure whether – has Sylvia looked at the new policy advice development schedule? And what – does she have any – I mean, is this a step in the right direction? Is this – what more is needed, you know?
Interpreter: And I'm sorry, was that question for Sylvia or for Andres?
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Well, either of you. This is Dev. That was Dev.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) And Dev, I have seen that. You know, obviously, you and I are in permanent contact (unintelligible) and you've shown me what you've done. And you know, I know that we've spoken about this subject as well and I've seen it. And first of all, I want to congratulate you publicly because you've done an amazing job and it's really quite excellent. And I do think that it's definitely extremely useful to continue LACRALO work. And definitely want everybody to – you know, to take a look because it's a great dynamic that is proposed in this redesigning.
You know, the issue was – you know, there were certain subjects that were presented before this. So the issue is, you know, all of the members that work with LACRALO, all of us that, you know, are in charge of working for a subject, for example, we should have a possibility to be able to use this redesign of information in that process. You know, because the issue is – you know, the person that actually asked me the question about confusion in the subjects, you know, it's not somebody new from At Large who just, you know, started working with us, but it's actually somebody who's been working for a long time.
So, what I'm trying to say is we have to use a better use of that tool, or if somebody can add something else onto that.
Carlton Samuels: (Unintelligible) here.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) Go ahead.
Carlton Samuels: Even with the tools, that it is a great work that Dev did in working with the staff to redesign the schedule and the spreadsheet and that's great work. Again, what we have been focusing on are tools that need and help to move the work along the channels. What we have not moved forward is doing the work itself. Let me reiterate what this is about.
There are topics that come for discussion in ALAC for which our representatives in ALAC need our advice and guidance if and when a vote comes. Informed consent means that we have to be familiar with the issue to the extent that we can give an informed opinion to guide the votes of our representatives. That is what is missing. Because to be informed, you have to do the work up front. You have to read the documents. You have to understand the issues. You have to see clarifications under wiki. They're always posted on the wiki. You can read them there. You can make comments there. You can ask for clarification there and that helps.
What we have not been seeing is enough participation in the work before it gets to the decision stage. That is what is required. It's the input before decision stage. I know that some of us are going to have the challenge because a lot of the work is done in English, but the wiki itself provides translation capabilities that can be used.
Vanda Scartezini: Not a very good one, but you can understand.
Carlton Samuels: Yes. Not a very good one, but you can understand it. And what I'm really asking people to do is this. If you see a topic on the policy schedule that you feel you have an interest in, the easiest way to inform yourself is to create an RSS feed from the wiki that tells you what is happening in the discussion. That comes straight to you. And you can use that as the basis to make your interventions on the wiki. Use the translation facilities on the wiki. As Vanda says, it's not the best, but it is workable. And there is where you can make an impact.
I would also urge you to respond in your native language on the wiki. It's okay to write in Spanish on the wiki. And that is where you start the work and that's where we are falling down. I know it's difficult and it takes a long time, but you cannot give consent without having the information for yourself. That's the first thing.
The second thing that I have always insisted on is that not every issue that comes up to vote we have to make a full-blooded response to. Some issues we should leave it to the sense of the room of our representatives to act in our best interests. I really do believe that that is something that we ought to accept and understand. I think our representatives, Carlos and Jose, coming Sylvia, are people with experience and sensible enough to know what the sense of the room is in the discussion and, therefore, how they would vote on behalf of LACRALO. I think we have to accept that in moving forward.
These two areas, I believe, if we come to accept them, will enable us to move the work forward in a very reasonable way.
Vanda Scartezini: Vanda. May I talk?
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) Thank you Carlton And Vanda, yes, in one second.
Vanda Scartezini: Okay.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) And first of all, I'm very happy to hear that you're here. And I share definitely a lot of the things that you've actually just said. And I do think that there is a certain – you know, it's true that the three representatives may know what the consensus is and they could take it to the list, but it would be better in a lot of case, you know, and especially me as President, where LACRALO is able to tell our representatives, you know what? This is our consensus, and very expressly have said it. You know, it's true that in some cases we can't do that, we have to trust their judgment. But you know, that is also an issue.
And Vanda, please go ahead.
Vanda Scartezini: Yeah. The reason Carlton just raised is just a reason that we need you, the nominating group, working group to do that. So, we need to have – if we have one point in the policy advice. So for instance, the geographical region reviews or anyone. So, we need to identify one guy that will be the facilitator on this matter and push a little bit into the wiki and send emails to (unintelligible) and, you know, stimulate people to read and to talk and to exchange some ideas.
We need to – really, we are all volunteers. So if you don't push a little bit, people that is just joined or it's more difficult a way to be connecting to us. They are not aware all the time about this. So, it's important to have one guy that is the one that we'll push for one point or two points on the policy issues, to ask and send the questions to the (unintelligible) and make positions in the wiki or something like that. Because I know that most of the people sometimes just forget about what's going on. If you don't have a lot of, you know, points of checking, you lose time. And the only – and another conference call you are reading in the end of what is going on. So, it's very important to get (unintelligible) in this kind of job. If you are new on that, you don't have (unintelligible), so you need someone to push you to help you to take – pay attention on the issues that are important.
So my suggestion is, in all those lists, all those items, that we have time for, you know, to make some considerations and give some advice. We need you to find who in our group will be in charge to stimulate the others to make some consideration. At the least, we're gonna have one guy that is well informed about that and can, you know, exchange ideas and make comments that will help the others, mostly the ones that cannot read in English, to have better idea and quick solution about what's going on, what is important inside that paper. I'm done.
Carlton Samuels: Can I--.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) Thank you.
Carlton Samuels: (Unintelligible) in addition to Vanda?
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) Thank you, Vanda. One second. Like you said, you know, I – first of all, I share what you're saying, Vanda. And I do want to add, you know, we are at a low level in regards to what person we can nominate in order to do this. But it is very true that we definitely need to increase the participation level in LACRALO, obviously, because that's the only thing that is going to help us and take us into the next direction.
And somebody else wants to say something? Carlton, did you want say something else?
Carlton Samuels: Yes. Yes, I want to say something else.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) Go ahead, Carlton.
Carlton Samuels: I have to say that that exact approach we have taken for two-plus years and it never worked. That guy who used to put opinions on the list and tried to generate conversation was consistently three of us; myself, Jacqueline Morris and Carlos Aguirre. And from time to time you may have one or two persons who would chime in. But I can tell you, and you can go back to the records to show, we still did not get the kind of interventions that we expect from the membership.
It is really difficult for me to bridge the gap between someone who says that they are interested in this work and my having to remind the person that you are really interested in this work. I really have a strong – I have a credibility gap that is difficult to fill because, in my opinion, you signed up for the work and you knew what the work was about. And so, if I have to spend time reminding you to participate, I think we are lost right there. I really do believe that you are not going to get 100 percent participation. But what I would like to see is – and this is the case with every single list for – beside the work that I'm engaged with. There are very few people who actually engage.
Vanda Scartezini: Yes. That's--.
Carlton Samuels: But what I really would like to see is, because the wiki is constantly there and it's the permanent record of what transpires, if people would simply set up their RSS feeds and get information pushed to them, and then make an impact on the wiki, that would be good enough for me. That is just one alternative way that I think we could try to tease out a couple more persons in the membership to actually begin to address issues. Because the other way of posting to the email lists and expecting to generate comments, we did that exhaustively and that didn't expand the participation too well. So, this is why I am proposing that we set up RSS feeds on the wiki and make our permanent support or proposals to the wikis. That's the reason for that suggestion.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: This is Dev. If I may--.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) Thank you, Carlton. And I do share your vision. I definitely think that this is something that's very good that we need to do. But I do understand your point of view. And yes, that is something that is basic that we definitely to do, so--.
And go ahead, Dev.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: I guess this is just a follow-up question – this is Dev. This is just a follow-up question to Carlton. I mean, I think the wiki already does this. I could be wrong, but I believe it does do this. (Unintelligible) will see a summary of the changes that have been made to the wiki. Is this what you're referring to in terms of signing up RSS feeds to the wiki?
Carlton Samuels: This is Carlton. Yes. Yes, Dev, this is exactly what I'm reporting to. But you first have to (unintelligible) as well to get their response on the wiki. That's what I do. So for example, I will see – I have – I'm on three or four working groups. And every change that is made on that wiki, I get a notification. I simply click and go to the wiki and see what this notification is. If there is something that I think I have something to say about, I will note it. If not, I simply know that I know what is going on. So, when times come for the discussion or the vote, I know that I have a fairly good knowledge of what the issues are and where my head space is to inform a vote.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Um-hmm.
Carlton Samuels: And that's how I keep abreast of what's happening. And that's the only way I know that you can keep – really keep abreast. Because remember, the working groups, we have always insisted that the working groups should be non-regional because that's the best way to get the best information into ALAC. And once that happens, you will have more informed consent at ALAC, which is what we are really after.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Um-hmm. Sorry, this is Dev Anand. Yes, I agree with you, Carlton, because that's what I do. I subscribe to the RSS feeds from the wiki. And you know, that is to see when somebody – when a page is created, when something has been modified and so forth. Perhaps what has to be done, and probably I should try this. Maybe I could try to explain how this is done and how to actually do so. So, I might – maybe I might add that as an action item.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) And thank you, Dev. And you know, I do have to say that it would be good to see this as an action item. And Heidi actually posted the example now on the Skype channel so you guys can actually see this. You know, but this is something that's actually important and mainly to keep the continuity for the discussion of a lot of these subjects. So, you know, it is a matter of, you know, making enough of all the tools that we have. So really, at this point it's a matter of, you know, involving more people and having more people participate.
And then point three, coordination for the LACRALO secretariat in order to be able to coordinate in that case.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Um-hmm.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) And actually, thank you, Dev, for the contributions that you're posting in regards to that. I think it would be good to discuss this. I mean, I don't think that it's something that is a good idea to do now with the country code operators. I know that we've had some of them participate in some of the previous teleconferences, you know, that tried to explain the politics and how the users can actually have more knowledge about this. We've had many discussions on the lists as well. And you know, there's been great conversations on the ccTLDs.
But you know, I know that ALAC also has actually wanted to get more detail on DCN, so--. And I know that there's been great effort as well with Dev and Carlos Aguirre in Sydney, you know, how to bridge the gap between, you know, the country codes and the domain names in LACRALO and how to actually make a better working relationship, for the users to have better access, you know, and better knowledge at the same time.
But you know, at the same time, this issue is not just something that we should do in teleconferences, but it's something that we should continue working on more. So Dev, if you have something to say about that?
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: This is Dev. Just – I'm sorry. I'm just slightly – just been going back and forth within windows here. Are you referring to item number three? I'm sorry. Or referring back to item number – are we still on item number--?
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) Yes, item number three.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay. Sorry about that. Well, I still want to emphasize that we – I think at the – what came out of the teleconference was that – earlier this month – was that we should try to have a discussion with the ALAC liaison to the ccNSO, which is--.
Heidi Ullrich: Rudi Vansnick.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Rudi Vansnick. Thank you, Heidi, yes. I believe we were trying to see whether we can him today to join this conference because – were we able to reach – were you able to – is Rudi able to join us, or--?
Heidi Ullrich: This is Heidi. And I have tried to contact him on email as well as Skype, but he has not answered. It's very late in Europe, you know.
Vanda Scartezini: It's August in Europe, nobody is in.
Heidi Ullrich: Yeah. But I do want to pass on to you that he is very enthusiastic about your work in this and is very eager to join you for a briefing on the ccNSO or any issue with the ccTLDs at a future date.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay. Well – this is Dev Anand. I'll just table that as an action item to arrange for that meeting, that teleconference to take place.
Heidi Ullrich: With – Dev, if you could clarify – this is Heidi – the teleconference with Rudi, is that correct?
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: That's right. The – sorry, yeah. The – our liaison to the ALAC office (inaudible).
Heidi Ullrich: Okay. And that would be with LACRALO.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) We're going back here. What I did want to say, though, is that, you know, the goal would be, you know, also to have other people from the West to be able to participate as well, because this is the way to, you know, improve relationships with the country codes. And these are the things that absolutely need to start working on. And this will be a good way to actually have better contribution.
Finally, point four of the action items. So, let's go to point four of the action items. And that's really, you know, something that we've already discussed and done, and that has to do with the elections. But really, you know, the elections go to point five.
So, this really has to do with the open consultation period and specifically related to policy development. And so, here I'm posting the link for the public comment periods. So, you guys are able to see there a lot of the comments and the subjects that are open at this time. And as well as the subjects, they're waiting for summaries and analysis. And then, of course, the subjects that have already been closed for the common public period.
Finally, there's then the documents with which we've been working on, the chart. And this is the actual spreadsheet. And you guys see the link there as well.
Interpreter: And one second. He's, I think, looking for something so he's not speaking.
And one second. I'm just making the announcement to them that they need to press star-seven when they want to contribute because everybody seems to be muted, so--.
And guys, once again, everybody seems to be muted on the Spanish chart. So, let me just go ahead and tell them again to do star-seven if they want to say something, okay?
And thank you, Dev, from Andres, just for posting all these links on the list.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) So the silence, you know, that I hear, it has a lot to do with the participation. You know, if you guys would have been a bit more informed, we would have had a bit more discussion, more contribution on a lot of these subjects. Now we have the tools to do it so it'll be important to really get on that and start working on it. So hopefully, for the next teleconference everybody will be more informed and will be actually more knowledgeable in regards to a lot of these subjects that we are posting at this time.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: This is Dev.
Interpreter: Okay. Let me go ahead and tell him that you're going to speak.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) As president, you know, I've been working a lot with – you know, in regard to policy development in order to, you know, improve our capabilities in order to be able to make more contributions. And once again, we see that we are a bit behind and so, you know, there's gotta be a way to improve this. Does anybody want to say something? And Dev, you wanted to say something.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Yeah. This is Dev. Just a comment regarding the announcement posted to the public comment period regarding post-expiration domain name recovery. I think it actually is a very interesting issue because it does really affect end users, registrants, in terms of when they register generic top-level domains. It may have some implications for country code top level domains. But just emphasize that I posted a link in the chart there to the Sydney workshop that was done on it. And this year's report is available in several languages. So, you know, again, it's a very interesting topic. And it's – I would say that there is no – it's not a straightforward issue. There's, like, pros and cons as to, you know, what exactly can registrants expect when redeeming their expired domain name. So, that's to say that, you know, this is an issue that I think is very important. So, thank you.
Carlos Aguirre: (Interpreted.) And this is Carlos who is speaking now. You know, we worried a lot, you know, for this participation happens and increases and, evidently, we still are not getting a lot of participation. There are a lot of people that were very active for a long time at the beginning and now its people that have completely disappeared. And then there are other people who make comments that are not even positive, you know, really deviating. For example, the career of somebody in ALAC and they don't really take care of, you know, the issues that concern the region.
What I'm trying to say is we have very interesting subjects. I personally, in regards to this subject, I've not actually been very informed, but I've actually been very involved in the IRT subjects and other subjects that we've discussed with ALAC. And of course, the new gTLD subject. You know, obviously, you can't take care of everything, but it is a matter of being able to divide the work. And I think that it is time that, you know, each person really starts and takes charge of one specific subject.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) And Carlos, I do agree with you on what you're saying. You know, we have such a large agenda. For example, like the one that we have today. You know, and we're not actually using our assets. You know, so like I said before, it's important to choose a subject and start making the subject work. For example, you spoke about IRT and new gTLDs, for example. And I actually read a lot of the work that you did and your contribution was very, very important.
And you know, coming back to, you know, some people and what they were focusing on, you know, it's more than three of us that are very, very involved in a lot of the subjects that are happening with ICANN. We know who we are. But I know that a lot of people participating in this teleconference and hearing what we're speaking about, I know that you guys are a better fleet, a better people that have great intentions. So, it's really a matter of engaging a lot of the people that are present here today to choose a subject and really start working on that.
So, I'd like to hear somebody else's opinion on what we are discussing.
Speaker: (Interpreted.) And Andres, I definitely don't want to nominate anybody, but I think that there are people who are going to have the LACRALO position in ALAC and so it would be important that, you know, it's people that are very, very well involved in a lot of these subjects that are related to ALAC as well. That could be a good role to start with.
Interpreter: And who spoke? I'm sorry.
Speaker: (Interpreted.) And this is (unintelligible).
Interpreter: (And (unintelligible) is now with us. He just joined.)
Speaker: (Interpreted.) And I do agree with Carlos on the subject as well.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) And quickly talking about Sylvia specifically, but what I'm trying to say is it's good that Sylvia starts working more for the region and, you know, in regard to the involvement, you know, because next year she's probably gonna have to do it, you know, more permanently anyway, so--.
Interpreter: Okay. Jose Luis Barzallo is now speaking.
Jose Luis Barzallo: (Interpreted.) You know, the subject, you know, in order to find motivators to have more participation is very important. I know that Sylvia will do it gladly. But you know, I think that in the first place it would be interesting, for example, you address maybe we should try to find a way to coordinate this subject on how to increase motivation. So, after the teleconferences, this teleconference in particular, for example, start posting ways and then how to form certain groups; not just work groups, but work groups in which there is a certain communication and a certain concern in order to stimulate participation, or in order to find out why there is no participation. Or you know, whatever subject that wants to be proposed on the next teleconferences, that would be important to do as well and to start working that way.
And one second, guys. There's an echo on the line. Let me just make sure that speaker (unintelligible). Okay, very well. The echo's gone.
So, the point is – so, as everything within (unintelligible), I have a (unintelligible) that he just made in regards to how to improve participation and this is why we actually – you know, we discussed so extensively point two as part of our, you know, point three in action item, how to actually take care of extending subjects. So, this is why we had discussed, you know, how to propose one person per subject, for example, because if we don't have enough people, then we obviously cannot do it.
You know, in Sylvia's case, you know, she actually worked on the subject. For example, it's true that, you know, she has to (unintelligible) more, but you know, she did a very big subject. But the point is, you know, we need more people to actually do this. I, for example, can give you guys a summary of what I'm working on right now.
But you know, in (unintelligible) in Mexico, for example, you know, we had the best groups possible and that actually worked. We actually saw that it was, you know, too much for these working groups that we had. You know, there was a lot of issues that were presented and a lot of things that were not done, so--. But instead of having groups, you know, maybe have something more individual so we actually get more of the work done.
You know, we really just need people that are committed, you know, that are willing to do the work. I know that it's asking too much sometimes, you know. But for the public commentary, you know, for somebody to choose a subject and contribute. And you know, a lot of the times people don't even choose a subject and so it's very difficult. I don't know what you guys think about this. You know, we should actually have more stable groups at this point. So, I mean, I don't know what you guys have to say about this and how else we can advance this.
And Andres, what I wanted to say is that I want to be part of a group. Like I said, I still talk about the idea that we do have to work more. I'm already involved in a group, but I'm not afraid of this. You know, we have to just continue working forward. And you know, it's a matter of just being blunt and it's a matter of, you know, agreeing and imposing more of our examples so people actually follow that example.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) So then, you think that we should form more groups?
Jose Luis Barzallo: (Interpreted.) Yeah. But you know, if we're not able to even contribute on a small public consultation period, because nobody is actually raising their hand to say "I" for any of these subjects that have been proposed and for any of these public comments. You know, because the issue is how are we able to oppose something and publish something when nobody's actually starting to do anything.
You know, there are people here involved in specific subjects, you know, then it's able to do it. But you know, for next month, for example, if there's a person that has a subject and they actually haven't done what they're supposed to do, then how is that supposed to work?
Fatima Seye Sylla: (Interpreted.) And can I say something? And this is--.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) And so Fatima is going to say something now. Okay. So, Sylvia is going to speak first.
Sylvia Herlein Leite: (Interpreted.) First of all, I'm very, very grateful to Carlos' nomination. Many of you guys know I'm willing to participate, maybe not as much as necessary from a future position. You know, but it's not that I'm afraid to participate but, as you guys saw, for example, the report that I sent to the list for the new gTLDs, unfortunately I only had one comment. I think I got one from Dev and another one from Andres. And the other ALS, who actually are part of the EURALO, you know, acted as though they were not there. But I actually inquired about a lot of the ALS's and I actually even asked for the participation for a group here in Brazil and the only information that I got back was the few things that we saw on the list.
I have no problem assuming the position and I have no problem trying to stimulate people. A lot of you guys know that, you know, I understand that I was chosen as their representative because, before Mexico, with Andres, you know, the majority of our work was to try and stimulate a lot of the ALS's and to try and get them involved and, you know, to try and tell them what the subjects were about.
So, you guys must always know that you can always count on me and I am willing to do it. And this is my public commitment to choose another subject and to try to present this and to try to see if we can get more participation. You know, unfortunately last month I didn't get any comments. I don't even know if what I did, the report that I actually presented was correct or not because nobody even said anything about that. And that's all I wanted to say.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) And Sylvia, and thank you for your contribution. You know, you've been one of the most active people here and I really liked your report. And as president, I was in fact very concerned, you know, that somebody that actually contributed so much, you know, and chose a subject and worked so hard on this, that it did not get that many responses. But you know, in this case, before even getting into, you know, what's in your report, I'd like to know how you got a lot of the information that you had in the report and how you came about a lot of that information. So, it's not only a matter of, you know, knowing what the concept is itself, but how you got a lot of the content that you got to because, you know, there are some things that I may share or may not share with.
Speaker: Can I make an interjection here?
Interpreter: Let me go ahead and tell them. And just so you guys know, when they're speaking and, you know, when I'm translating it's because they're speaking. So, just give me a bit more time to, you know, let them know.
Speaker: Sure.
Interpreter: I just don't like – don't want to interrupt any of you in the middle of your--.
Speaker: Sure. No problem.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) And you know, this is something that you would have told me before. And you know, I want to ask everybody present, you know, because like I said, I had people that gave comments and this is what I included in my report. And if I'm able to reveal names, I'm more than willing to do that.
Speaker: (Interpreted.) Well, you know, I know because, you know, there was a lot of information, especially about the end users and the gTLDs and all that. So, you know, it's important to know where a lot of this information comes from. But it is good, you know, obviously, to discuss these subjects, like the one that Dev just proposed. You know, for (unintelligible), for example, we already have a statement that we need to work on for ALAC that was presented – excuse me. I'm sorry, give me one second there.
And Fatima is going to speak and then Carlton.
Fatima Seye Sylla: (Interpreted.) And Andres, what I wanted to say, I haven't been participating for too long. I've been participating in the list and I've been – but publicly, I definitely want to offer myself to participate in any other groups that are proposed or, you know, whatever subject, you know, that I'm able to do.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) And Fatima, we actually posted a lot of the links on the Skype channel. You can actually participate with me in the actual subject that I just took charge of. You know, I know that, you know, if you don't have that much experience on it, that's fine. But I think it's important also that you then bring about another subject that you want to participate in and start working on. But I will actually work with you on the subject that you chose to work on.
And just basically, first of all, I do want to congratulate Sylvia. You know, you did very, very, very good work. It was very valuable work. And I also think that it's good to insist that we continue working and producing documents. You know, last month, you know, because of personal issues, I was not very connected. But you know, now I'm trying to incorporate myself more.
But I think that it was an excellent initiative of, you know, Sylvia, who actually sent out a lot of the subjects that were pending for us to be able to start choosing a lot of the work and a lot of the subjects and to start preparing that. And you know, I think that that's also a good alternative to start, you know, sending out the subjects and the work subjects. And that way we are able to choose the subject that we have more affinity.
And I as well commit myself, and I'm willing myself to start working and to even go above and beyond and to try to find and to generate a sort of a motivator, especially amongst the people that are not as involved, or that are not able to, you know, get as involved because of the infrastructures or because of the facilities and to try and keep them informed as well or, you know, how they can get connected or how they can actually keep up to date on a lot of the issues as well. So, I commit myself then for these two issues, not only to try to communicate myself – commit myself not only to try and get more remote participation, especially amongst the indigenous community here, but also in the current subjects that we have as well.
And Jose, we do have the list of subjects. We're going to post it on the Skype channel as well. And I'm very, very grateful because always your contribution is very, very valuable. So, thank you for that.
And Carlton, please go ahead.
Carlton Samuels: Thank you very much. Let me give you a little background. I teach at the University part time for a living. I run a project that is developing a regional research and education network. I'm a member of the Board of the National Training Agency of Jamaica. I'm on the technical committee of the Hart (ph) Company. I am on four working groups in ALAC in ICANN. I belong to the generic gTLD working group. I belong to the geographic regions working group. I belong to the IRT draft working group. I have all of these things going on.
The way I keep connected is that, anytime there is an update or somebody posts something on the wikis of any of these working groups, which is the gTLD working group, the IRT working group or the geographic regions working group, I get a notification from the wiki. I look at what's happening. I make a suggestion, I may make a comment. I also participate in the teleconferences of these working groups and the briefings that are associated with the subjects under which these working groups have their (unintelligible).
Now, that is a very involved kind of existence. The only way I'm able to keep track of this is that I have to set up myself to get information sent to me. That's the only way I can subsist. Here is what happens with this. All of the resources that Sylvia spent so much time putting together and placing on the list, to my mind the single benefit that came from all of that was that Sylvia proposed to the list a list of subjects in Spanish. To me, that was the single most important outcome of that because all of that information can be received directly from the source so long as you set yourself up to get that information. That is to say you must make an affirmative choice, an affirmative choice, to go to the working group, set yourself up with the RSS feed so you can get the data directly.
Interpreter: I'm sorry. You know what, Carlton? This is Maya. What is the RSS feed. I don't know what that is. You need to explain that to me because I can't convey that if I don't know what that is. Could you explain – or could you explain it to them because, you know--.
Carlton Samuels: It's – the RSS feed is a syndication. It's a little application that is on the website that, when you engage this application, it automatically sends the updates from that website to your email address.
Interpreter: And that is on what website? On the--.
Carlton Samuels: --That's on the website. That's on the wiki. All of the wiki, all of the websites in ICANN have this. Every single working group that has a location on the website has that capability embedded in the website. For example, I just received from the list an update from the RALO list because Gisela (ph) made a change on that list. It immediately popped an email to me that tells me that there was this change placed on that website. I click on the link. I t takes me directly to it. I see exactly what she has just made.
The point I'm making and I keep on reiterating, if you are waiting for a member to provide you information in order to act, then you will be late in responding. It is much more useful for you to get the information from source. And there are tools that are available to help us to do that. We need to use the tools that are available to us so that, when the information is passed, we do the next best thing, which is to say make an informed consent of any decision that we wish to share with the rest of us. That is the way to do it.
And I'm so very sorry that, if you're asking the ALAC rep to go on the website and then summarize all of the details as Sylvia did, just so you can put it on the list so that nobody responds, to me that is not effective use of time. I'm really very sorry. It really looks to me like make work and, to me, that is not progressive. I think if we commit to working in Internet governance issue in the ICANN remit, we have to take the necessary affirmative steps to get ourselves directly involved. That is what I have to say. Thank you.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) Carlton – and I agree with Carlton. And it's true. You know, and it's a lot of information, Carlton, you're right. And it's true as well that, you know, a lot of the times when we're expecting these things to be (unintelligible) with from ALAC, it can be too much. So, to do this change in dynamic, I think it's a good idea that we do need a very high commitment. But you know, if somebody tells me that they want to actually do a change of dynamics, I'm very open for it obviously, you know, because – I mean, there is a way to – there's gotta be a way to make this more efficient, obviously.
Okay. And what I've just done now is I've actually posted on the Skype channel how to make use of these actual tools that Carlton just mentioned.
Interpreter: Heidi, do you want me to read to them in Spanish what – the question you just posted and the translation of the answer?
Heidi Ullrich: No. I'm just putting it in Google so they can have it for the record--.
Interpreter: Oh, I see. Okay. Okay.
Heidi Ullrich: But those are for you. That's what RSS means.
Interpreter: Oh, thank you. Yeah. And now I know.
And they're not saying anything now. This is why I'm quiet.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) Well, we've said a lot today. You know, a lot on how we're going to work on point four. You know, we now have people who have actually committed. You know, if somebody else wants to change the dynamic, you know, you need to let me know. I definitely agree with what Carlton is saying, you know, because this is a good week to start. Otherwise, we can start discussing point five, which is the elections.
Now, is everybody aware on what's happening on the elections?
Vanda Scartezini: Well, I can – Vanda is speaking. I can put my point if you'll let me.
Interpreter: Let me go ahead and tell them.
Jose Luis Barzallo: (Interpreted.) And one second, Vanda. Just one more contribution on point four.
Vanda Scartezini: Okay.
Jose Luis Barzallo: (Interpreted.) And what I wanted to add, actually, in regards to this subject on the work group, you know, I know that the previous teleconference, you know, there were a lot of groups and there was a lot of discussion. You know, I wasn't aware that – you know, what did the (unintelligible) say about the ALS participation? For example, in this teleconference we actually have every LACRALO ALS present. Is everybody listening? Is everybody participating in this teleconference? I mean, you know, and – no, and we don't. Because Andres--.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) But Jose, that is information that we have. But I think that maybe the staff or the secretary – or you can even become volunteered to actually start recompiling that information in regards to what members of what ALS's and work groups are actually participating in each of the teleconferences. Or we can actually do a summary of those contributions and participations.
Interpreter: Did you want to say something?
Speaker: Not quite yet.
Interpreter: Okay. One second.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) But you know, evidently – you know, because we have more information available. You know, next month, for example, or a month after that we can actually start posting that type of information in regards to who is participating. You know, the point here, though, is to get more people that are available to work and more people that are willing to work. You know, because – you know, for example, me, Fatima, are not really part of the ALS's. We're actually just people that have charges. And that's not a relevant thing, to be honest with you. The relevant thing is how to increase our participation and how to increase these things.
But you know, if somebody wants to propose, you know, how to, you know, change this dynamic or how to do this, then we can go ahead and do that. But I do think that that is actually something good because, you know, today's teleconference we do have a lot of people. I mean, we have enough people for the quorum, that's true. But you know, the previous teleconference, I know that there were people who had committed to work on certain subjects, but this is why it's important to know. Because, I mean, there is 32 ALS's as part of LACRALO, right? But unfortunately, we are never able to have the majority of the people inside the teleconference and maybe that's something that we need to work on.
Speaker: (Interpreted.) Well, do you have the possibility to work with Dev in order to publish this?
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) No, I have no problem to work with him in order to start publishing the ALS's that are members that actually participate in this teleconference. And the participation and how many representatives each organization has sent in, because that would be important. Maybe that would help in participation. You know, maybe we can have each of the organizations send at least one delegate.
Speaker: Okay.
Interpreter: And let me go ahead and tell them.
Speaker: (Interpreted.) (Unintelligible) speaking. Do you know what I mean?
Interpreter: Just give me one second. Let me--.
Speaker: (Interpreted.) So, what we can do for example is we have a teleconference, we actually have, you know, a framework where we can actually ask each ALS how many representatives they sent. We know the people that were sent and we actually have a record of that. And you know, so now we're going to--.
Interpreter: Okay. Now, give me one--.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) Okay. Dev, do you want to say something now?
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Yes. This is Dev here. I wasn't too sure who was speaking before, sorry. But is it that – I just want to clarify with Andres. Andres wants to put this as an action item, which I understand it to be tracking participation by LACRALO members? By LACRALO – you know, by the ALS's in LACRALO? Is that what I'm hearing? Or have I misunderstood?
Carlton Samuels: Mostly because it's already tracked. There is a record of the teleconference and every member that is present is listed in that teleconference, in the minutes. There is also a record, I mean an mp3 recording of the teleconference. And any participant participation in that teleconference is also committed to that recording for posterity. So, we don't need to do that again. If you read the minutes of the meeting, it lists the participants. I don't see how it would be any more useful to make up another list.
Speaker: Yeah. I don't see neither. It's all there.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Well, this is Dev again. I just guess – just listening to the conversation here, I think maybe what needs to be – what probably has to be done is linking the policy advice development schedule and – and I guess I'll work on it. We're putting up a document, or linking the policy advice development schedule to I guess the people who want to actually – who are saying that they want to be involved with it. And I guess the term is reporter. I could be wrong. And I don't – I do not ask the right word to, you know, the person covering this topic who wants to make comment on the topic or whatever.
But I mean, we are going – I think we're potentially going around in circles here. We're talking about how to – I guess ultimately it is how to improve participation and Carlton touched on it. You have to keep track of all the information coming onto the wiki. You know, onto the ALAC wiki, the LACRALO wiki and keeping up to date. And then, you know, to me, in my mind, in my opinion, it's all about, you know, you posting questions to the LACRALO list.
Carlton Samuels: Don't forget the wikis for the various working groups. I am on three working groups. I'm a member of three working groups. And the only reason I'm able to keep up with it is because I get information sent to me from those working groups. And I know what the issues are, I know what my interest is and, therefore, I can respond in some kind of critical fashion. Otherwise, I simply could not do it. It's the tools that allow me to work and it's the tools that inform me when an issue comes up and somebody makes a suggestion that I believe requires clarification or my input. That's the way to do it.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: I agree, Carlton, yes. This is Dev, sorry.
This is Dev again. I was just – actually, Carlton, what was that link again for the working groups? I knew it was (unintelligible) and now I'm not seeing it anymore.
Heidi Ullrich: I can post it.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Thanks, Heidi.
Heidi Ullrich: But my understanding – this is Heidi – is that we have agreed as an action item to have everyone add the RSS feeds to their particular working group, or working in conjunction with LACRALO (unintelligible) to have that done.
Speaker: Hello?
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Hi. Oh--.
Speaker: (Inaudible.)
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: I think we are – this is Dev here. I think – is Andres there on – or has Andres been disconnected?
Interpreter: I think he's still there.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay. I'm seeing something in the stack chart suggesting otherwise.
Interpreter: Now I can't hear him either. Okay. Andres is asking to be called back again.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay.
Interpreter: Well, Vanda, the last thing that Andres said is that you can actually start updating them on the elections while they call him back.
Vanda Scartezini: Okay. Let me – well, first of all, thank you for all members that have sent some comments to me about my proposal to the board liaison. I'm – I have sent to the – to Heidi and she will forward after this meet my statement of interest. Unhappily, my Spanish is not still good. So, I didn't dare to translate to Spanish the whole statement. But Heidi said she will.
And on the other side, I sent also two resumes. A short one, one in Spanish and other in English. And two long one, one in English and another in Spanish for all of you to know all the aspects of my professional life and why I am propose myself to be the liaison. So, I would like to answer any questions people may have for now or after you read all the statement.
I also sent – I've requested a paper of conflict of interest saying that I have no conflict of interest in any position inside the ICANN. Of course, not in the board area. So, I know very well what is the liaison work is. I have been in the board during three years and have worked with all liaisons, including two that become good friends, like Roberto Gaetano and Vittorio Bertola, that used to be ALAC's liaison.
And so, I have some interesting issues related to my time on the board, like (unintelligible) like outreach and put the outreach in the staff meeting before the ICANN meeting to start to talk and explain to new people what's going to have during this meeting, what to expect about their participation and things like that. And those meetings become part of the process of the communications area inside the ICANN.
So, it's a long – I also started the fellowship program. I have proposed that because, since the beginning, I have a sense of no participation of developing countries, especially because really in the beginning of ICANN was just a bunch of people and mostly concentrate on the rich ones and some more novice, like Brazil and India and others that also development countries, but decide to participate from the beginning.
That fellowship program was started at that time. We designed that. We start to put it on the stage and it's a huge success now. And we have the opportunity to take to the meetings all those areas that have no other opportunities to participate in those meetings if we don't take them to them.
So, that's some ideas that I have made. And if all – they are all in my statement. And as I said, I'm open to respond to any question any of you have. And maybe you can start right now or after you read that. Thank you for your attention.
Carlton Samuels: This is Carlton. Can I say something?
Interpreter: Let – you know, I don't even know if Andres is back yet. Let me see if somebody else – let me confirm that for sure, okay?
Carlton Samuels: Okay.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: This is Dev here. It looks like--.
Interpreter: Yeah. Andres is not back yet. So, I don't know if one of you want – if you want me to tell them if somebody wants to take the chair, or if one of you wants to take the chair while he comes back?
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: This is Dev. I'll temporarily take the chair until Andres connects back.
Interpreter: Let me go ahead and tell them then.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: If there is no objection.
Carlton Samuels: This is Carlton. No objection.
Vanda Scartezini: Okay. Go ahead.
Carlton Samuels: I – this is Carlton speaking. I want to endorse Vanda as a worthy candidate for the board liaison. Ever since I got into this ICANN business, Vanda has been very much one of the persons who helped to help me understand how I can work. Given her knowledge and experience with ICANN and ICANN issues, I believe this particular period we are facing is going to be very contentious for the board, especially with matters of the gTLD – new gTLDs and the consequences from the JPA arrangement with the US government--.
Vanda Scartezini: Yes.
Carlton Samuels: In – as topics that are of moment. It requires – board liaison is going to be a key part of the ALAC remit. And it is going to require persons who are very familiar with the issues and, of course, better at working with the board and integrating themselves with the work of the board so that the ALAC positions and the ALAC concerns are effectively promoted to the board. If you were to look at the agenda for the board for the next little while, it is very clear that the kind of skills other than the usual diplomatic skills and the experience of a board working relationships and board operations, it will require somebody who is very much aware of the issues and the various sides of the issues, the JPA and the gTLD issue, for example. That is going to take a lot of the board's focus and attention in the next little while.
I should say to you that this morning I was told that the North America RALO have actually nominated me to be board liaison. This was done without my knowledge. It was not asked of me. When I was told this morning by the chair of the NARALO that I was in fact nominated, and I saw it on the wiki posts that was sent to my mailbox, I am – I thanked them for their graciousness and their – well, I think it is a reflection of the confidence that they repose in me and I thank them for that. I have already told them that I have put in a statement of interest to be a NomCom appointed to the ALAC. That is still outstanding, but that is where my focus is. So, I could not respond until I know exactly what that outcome is going to be. But that is really my focus. I would prefer to be a member of ALAC through the NomCom and that is what I have told Evan in spite of what they have done.
Vanda Scartezini: Okay. But it's the good name, too.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Andres is back on the Spanish channel. This is Dev, sorry.
Heidi Ullrich: You know, Carton.
Carlton Samuels: Yes.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) I know that you've actually processed your statement to be a member of ALAC with NomCom. So--.
Carlton Samuels: No, no, no. What I have applied – I have put in a statement of interest to be a member of ALAC as a NomCom appointee.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) Oh, right. Okay.
Carlton Samuels: But that is still not determined. So – but this is where my interest is and I've advised NARALO that that is what it is. I therefore graciously thanked them for their confidence in me but, to the extent that that comes through, then that's where I would be more – I think that my skills and interest would be best served.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) And I do want to ask before asking the candidates something. What I wanted to know is, Carlton, have you then – should we say declined the nomination for liaison?
Carlton Samuels: No, I have not declined the nomination from NARALO. What I did tell NARALO is that I would not do anything until I know for sure what – and I guess it would be at the end of the month. They have asked me to provisionally accept and withdraw at the time. But I told Evan that I was prepared not to accept at this time.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay. And this is Dev. Just to clarify it. End of this month, right?
Carlton Samuels: Yes.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: End of August. Okay.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) So then--.
Vanda Scartezini: But the NomCom will send the information about who is gonna be the appointee I guess at the end of this month.
Carlton Samuels: That is my understanding.
Vanda Scartezini: Yeah. And I hope you have been accepted because I guess you are the best candidate.
Carlton Samuels: Thank you, Vanda. I hope so, too. Thanks for the endorsement.
Vanda Scartezini: Who else wants to talk?
Interpreter: Oh, okay. And I'm sorry. Give me a moment because--.
Okay. Carlos Aguirre is now going to speak.
Carlos Aguirre: (Interpreted.) What I did want to say to you guys, I see that, Carlton, you've not declined, but you've left your nomination on standby. So, you know, both of you guys actually been our candidates. You know, what I'd like to do then, you know, Carlton, as you've said, you know, Vanda has had excellent participation and she's been a great member in ALAC.
You know, the thing is, you know, the executive committee was (unintelligible), you know, it's a committee that just formed on its own without any statutes, without any rules. And now, basically, they decide urgent matters that have not actually been determined. So, there are things that are being decided that, you know--. So Vanda, in regards to your participation in that actual committee, I'm not very happy. And I think that it should be clarified with the region because the whole region is not aware of that. And you know, it's an important point.
And also, Vanda, I'd like you to clarify – and this is actually a question for you – you know, in regard to the fellowship, especially for LACRALO. I mean, you're a part of that committee and I would like to know who in the region during this time has actually been granted any of these fellowships because I actually do not know anybody in my country, for example, who has been granted any of these scholarships. And I also want to know what have you been – your participation, for example, when you were a part of the board. And particularly what I'd like to know – and this is another question--.
Vanda Scartezini: Yeah, I'd like to--.
Carlos Aguirre: (Interpreted.) You mentioned that there is no conflict of interest and I'd like you to clarify, you know, for all of us to just, you know, be at ease exactly who is going to be representing ALAC at the meeting.
Vanda Scartezini: Well, first of all, the fellowship program really took a lot of people from our region. From Argentina specifically – nobody from Brazil, but some people from Argentina. I can remember Olga Cavalli. And Olga entered into the ICANN issue through this fellowship. And you know, now she is a very active person in the ICANN. At the first moment she was a scholarship from this fellowship program. So, that's the reason I do believe the fellowship program, it really brings, you know, some good minds to the stage.
But let me see if I understood your problem with the conflict of interest. Conflict of interest under California law is all related to money. It's all about someone to pay you that is in some way contracted by ICANN. And that's one point that is very important I learned during my time in the board, how is the California, you know, legal framework. And this is one point is completely different. From my point of view there is a lot of conflict of interest in the board right now from our, you know, Latin environment and the Latin legal framework. That, according to California, no. If you don't have family working in ICANN, if you don't have people that is part of your, you know, partners or, you know, family that is in some way paying – paid by ICANN or yourself is not paying or have no conflicts with ICANN so you have no conflict of interest.
But anyway, I don't have conflict of interest because I'm not paid. Mostly I'm not paid for nothing. But something for ICANN and ICANN issues and ICANN Internet environment, I'm not paid by none of them. And also have never been paid for none of them. So, there is – you can see when they approve my conflict of interest statement it's a fill-in-the-blank. So, you can read that. You can understand what they asking for you about the conflict of interest. So, I don't have conflict of interest.
And being a liaison is not exactly being a vote member. In some way it's better because you can do the bridge. You can do the work with them and you can work with ALAC. As a vote member, it's not exactly the same thing. You can put yourself apart of what's going on because you are not representing the group. You are there, for instance, for the GNSO or so, you are there but representing them. As a liaison, yes, you are there representing their interest. So, I'll be there and I must represent ALAC interest.
So, from this side, what I understood it's enough my answers to you, Carlos? You want to make another clarification or explain your other--?
Carlos Aguirre:: (Interpreted.) When I was talking about the conflict of interest, I was talking about the ALAC's, you know, provisions where I wanted to know if you had any conflict of interest with ALAC in regards to their provisions. But I wasn't talking about the state of California to be a member of the board or anything like that.
Vanda Scartezini: So, you have asked me – sorry, I haven't understand what really you mean. Maybe I can have the sentence in Spanish is better. Could you repeat?
Carlton Samuels: (Interpreted.) Okay. And this is the actual question. Are you aware of the ALAC provisions that talk about conflict of interest and can you tell me what you know about what ALAC says in regards to their provision in regards to conflict of interest?
Vanda Scartezini: Oh.
Carlton Samuels: (Interpreted.) And not – and this is not talking about California law. This is specifically talking about the ALAC provisions that have to do with conflict of interest.
Vanda Scartezini: Yeah. Well, conflict of – yes, we talk about conflict of interest, yes. And I guess Alan put some paper on the – I don't know if Alan has finished that, but I guess yes. And conflict of interest is in some way people that has some kind of commit with others than – other (unintelligible) that are not exactly ALAC or the users, the RALOs and so on.
So, in our point of view, the conflict of interest is you have someone that is, to make it clear, inside the California Law, too, it's someone that is paid by some (unintelligible), some other Internet issue interest, like – you know, like the ccTLDs, a member of ccTLDs, member of for instance gTLD. You know, a company like affiliates or anyone of those. So, this could be really a conflict of interest if you are paid by them. If you just a member working with them just for free, there is no conflict of interest from ALAC's side. So, that's what I – it's my reason of what we have discussed about that.
They are talking?
Interpreter: No. No, they're not.
Vanda Scartezini: Okay. No. So, because just remember that Monica from Argentina, from (unintelligible) from Argentina went to Mexico as a fellowship, too. And many of Caribbean fellows went in many in San Juan, in – yeah, many of them. There was the Caribbean and some – a Peruvian and Chilean and – well, a lot of people have been in our region been awarded with the fellowship program or with the scholarship money. Some of them, like I guess this one from Saint Lucia, have been more than one time. She was so, you know, have so good performance that – because in the fellowship allow people to apply more than once. So, the woman from Saint Lucia--.
Speaker: I can confirm, Vanda, that in the Caribbean we have had people from – one person from Guyana, Deidra Williamson in Saint Lucia; two persons from Jamaica that have benefited from the fellowship program.
Vanda Scartezini: Yeah.
Speaker: I know that of a fact.
Vanda Scartezini: Yeah. Yeah. Mostly since we are one people from each region that is choosing the fellows. Even we have a row that is – you put people from the region – if we are – for instance, we went to Australia so we choose the first one, which is people from the Pacific Islands. And then to Asia and then to Latin America and Caribbean and Africa. Again, we're gonna have people from Africa. But from – since I represent Latin America and Caribbean for these interests. So I put my point in the first – the close region. And then my fellow from this region. So, you have a kind of balance of the people.
And we also take into account the index of human index to evaluate how poor that people are in that region. And of course we also prioritize people from the universities because they can express the ideas to the teachers, to the students. And also some small govern to allow them to understand Internet issues and make something when they went back to their homes. And after that, people from the communities, not for companies, not for, you know – ccTLD now, we also (unintelligible) because it's – there is a part of some money from the ccNSO.
So, we use this money to bring to the meetings people from the developing or poor countries that work in a cc or a member of cc since they are not mostly – most of them are govern or – at the same time we have people from cc that can also enter into the (unintelligible) and this kind of thing. That is to say the reality. We really push a little bit from each region. So, the guy from China of course was – it was(unintelligible) that was working with us in that from that side of the work.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay. This is Dev. I think what has happened is that Andres has not been reconnected as yet. Okay? So, I would just – I'm just – if no one objects, I'll be the chair again.
Interpreter: He is. He is back. He is back.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Oh, he is back.
Vanda Scartezini: He's back.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay. Actually I was just possibly wondering – and this is more for the translator – that – do you need a break?
Interpreter: Yeah, I do. I'm so sorry. You know, we obviously seem to – we're going to be going a bit longer, so I do need a small break if possible because--.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay. Well, I think we could then – okay. Well, is Andres there because--?
Interpreter: I'll go ahead and tell them and see what they think.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay. If Andres is there then, I'm sure he will agree to a break for a few minutes.
Heidi Ullrich: Dev?
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Yes?
Heidi Ullrich: When – I believe Andres will say yes, but just to stress to everyone, please stay on the line during these few minutes.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Of course. Sure.
Interpreter: Okay. Well, what Andres says is, you know, at this point we only have point six to go. We can stop with point five because we've already discussed it and we can just discuss point six.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Um-hmm. Going back to the agenda. Well, I mean, there are other items on the agenda.
Interpreter: So what--?
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Sorry, this is Dev.
Interpreter: Yes.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: There are other items on the agenda. So, it might better to just have the break now and make sure everybody stays on the line. And I'm sorry, how long would the break be?
Interpreter: If I – you know, can I have four minutes.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Four minutes
Interpreter: To go to the bathroom.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay. But maybe you should take five minutes. It's now quarter past 7:00. Two hours and 15 minutes--.
Interpreter: Right.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: So, that's fine. Just if he agrees. Let's wait for five minutes and then proceed on to the --and finish the rest of the meeting. And of course, obviously, everybody stay on the line so we can actually complete this meeting.
Heidi Ullrich: And we can be very quick with the other topics as well.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Correct. I think so.
Vanda Scartezini: So, next.
Heidi Ullrich: Vanda, the translator is just taking a few minutes break. So, I think we're just gonna take a pause while--.
Vanda Scartezini: Okay.
Heidi Ullrich: During that break.
Vanda Scartezini: Okay.
Heidi Ullrich: Then we will continue with agenda item six, unless there are any other issues on agenda item five.
Vanda Scartezini: Okay. (Inaudible.)
Heidi Ullrich: Heidi.
Vanda Scartezini: Thank you.
(Break.)
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: I was just thinking out loud. I wonder what's the record for the longest LACRALO teleconference.
Heidi Ullrich: I think this is it. Carlton, you have an institutional memory. I think other people are talking breaks, too.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Oh, okay. Well, I suppose we could cut it at 7:16, 7:15, 7:16.
Heidi Ullrich: Yeah. I think that the next items we'll go over very quickly, I think.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Yeah.
Heidi Ullrich: But I don't know, is everyone finished with agenda item five?
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Well, we didn't talk about the NomCom one. We just talked about the ALAC liaison one.
Heidi Ullrich: No – yeah, the board liaison.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Sorry, the ALAC board liaison. Sorry, yeah. And not about the NomCom appointees.
Vanda Scartezini: Talk about the other candidates.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Oh. What, for the – well, I don't think there are any other--. Well, actually we haven't really asked anybody if they want to have any other candidates listed.
Heidi Ullrich: Dev, just another question. I have been keeping track of all of the official election calls that the RALO secretariats have posted. And I note that I see that, in a way, Andres did the official call for the NomCom and then you followed up, I believe in English, on the NomCom position. But, let's see. I haven't seen an official--.
Interpreter: Okay. The interpreter is back. And thank you guys for the little break.
Heidi Ullrich: Thank you.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: You're welcome. The thing is now, of course, who is – maybe we should do a roll call again to see--.
Heidi Ullrich: Good idea.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Is Andres here on the Spanish channel?
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) Okay. So, let's go back to the agenda. So, if there's something else that somebody wants to say about the elections? But something very, very short though.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: This is Dev Anand. Just to mention that there is also the election for the ALAC board liaison, but there's also the election for the nominating committee, which is also open. And it's – well, I don't actually want to spend much time on it, but it's just to note that as well. And I think the nominations close – let's see. Sorry, I'm just trying to bring up that email there on when the nomination ends.
Heidi Ullrich: The nominations for the LACRALO NomCom or any will be – the end is - the RALOs have to transmit all accepted nominations before September 1st.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay. Thank you, Heidi.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) Yes. And I was going to mention that and I just forgot about it, so--.
Interpreter: Andres disconnected once again, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah. Andres disconnected once again, so--. Okay. Andes disconnected again, so Dev, I don't know if you want to continue until we try and get him back again?
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay. This is Dev. Yes. Okay, I'll assume the chair if no one objects. Let's see.
Heidi Ullrich: Dev, I think Vanda is going to provide the summary of the travel costs.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Oh, okay.
Vladimir: (Interpreted.) And Vladimir from Ecuador. I do have to leave the call at this time. So, thank you, everybody.
Vanda Scartezini: Thank you.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay. Thank you. Okay. Well, let's move on to item number six, travel (unintelligible) from the 11th of August. Vanda? You said – would you like to give a summary--.
Vanda Scartezini: Yes.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Of that briefing?
Vanda Scartezini: Yes. Very quick and not make it longer.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Yes. Well--.
Vanda Scartezini: Well, (Inaudible) conversations would be about the budget (unintelligible) the maximum of 25 travelers that will receive support for this (inaudible). Our priority is the RALO officers and the second priority will be liaisons. It depends also the cost of the price of tickets and so on. (Unintelligible) from Brazil, for instance. (Unintelligible) found a way – there is ship to reach Seoul. So, I send the proposition to see if they're gonna have – because if (unintelligible) it's $1,500 to cross the world I guess is very (unintelligible). So, we need to make this account and check all these alternatives we have to the cheaper ones to see what we get as the RALO and liaisons. The most that we get, the better. So, it's 15 people in the ALAC, plus 10 from the RALOs.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay.
Vanda Scartezini: So, sometimes people are not able to join, so that's why we have the second priority as a liaison as the priorities because sometimes people are not – you know, not get to these because difficulties or health problems and so on. So, we have all the time. It's not all the people that really join. So, we can manage a little bit. Depends upon on what the – which people will be able to come or not. So, I guess is that.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay.
Vanda Scartezini: And after that, next step, I guess. After that to Nairobi, the next meeting. We are – we need to discuss a way to (unintelligible) the RALOs and (unintelligible) and so on. And in this we're gonna have the opportunity to talk face to face in Seoul. So, that's very important to have a kind of a road to follow and to have – to improve our regional meetings because that was the real point and we want to make it happen. Have the regional meetings and decide that. So, it's going to be a face to face issue in Seoul.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay. Okay. Thanks, Vanda. I think Andres is back on the Spanish channel. Is he? Hi, Andres. I suppose then you have the chair.
Interpreter: Let me check.
Speaker: (Unintelligible) from--.
Interpreter: Okay. And he's back again.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay. Very well.
Interpreter: Okay. Alright. Andres is back. Somebody wants to make a – okay. And Carlos Aguirre would like to make a comment in regards to point six.
Carlos Aguirre: (Interpreted.) No. In regards to the travel policy, you know, we had a conference the other day with Kevin Wilson. And the truth is, you know, obviously Kevin Wilson as the CEO for ICANN, you know, is going to try and lower the numbers. And we understand that that's his job and we respect that. But at the same time, though, they need to understand, you know, he needs to understand that, you know, ICANN does have their objectives and that objective – and those objectives have to do with participation. So, you know, we have to find a way not only for more participation in our region, you know, but all the other regions.
You know, I think that the ICANN finance for to do well, you know, participation needs money and there is a way to – there's got to be other ways to get it. You know, there's ideas that we can actually contribute, for example, to make happen the travel possibility of other people. Because this – you know, it's not just about the delegates and the ICANN members and the regional leaders. You know, this also has to do with, you know, at least once a year, you know, general assemblies for each region where people need to travel. And that's a subject that is not a minor subject. That's something that we've discussed on several occasions.
I think somebody mentioned an interesting idea, which was the idea about, for example, to get idea – to get promotions on the plane tickets or to try and reduce the hotel rates. You know, we don't have to go to five-star hotels when we have these general assemblies. Maybe if we start doing it that way we're able to have more people participate or we're able to have better participation of people that are necessary in these type of meetings. Thank you.
Interpreter: And that was Carlos Aguirre.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) Thank you, Carlos. You know, people – you know, are aware that that is a very important and fundamental subject. You know, there's a lot of things that we need to discuss in regards to this. But I think that that's something that we need to discuss on the next teleconference. And then point seven, basically. So, if you can then discuss point seven, which is the Cross-RALO teleconference.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: This is Dev. Well, I guess I could try to summarize it. I'm sure Heidi probably is on it. Heidi has already summarized the action items from that. I'll take an attempt at it.
Okay. Generally, I think the consensus is to have – we should have the Cross-RALO teleconference before the ICANN general meeting in anticipation of the actual, you know, meeting at the ICANN, of the secretariats meeting at the ICANN general meeting. So, it would usually be (unintelligible) so it's probably set a month before.
With regards to things like having a Cross-RALO wikis and so forth, we will just for now – we're just gonna keep things simple and ad-hock. Meaning that, you know, we are limited to the secretariat and the chairs of each of the RALOs. But if there's a need, and there is not anticipated to be a need, but if there was ever a need for any other person, you know, liaison, ALAC member, what have you, to attend the conference, then they would be notified in advance.
Also – well, and again, also in terms of there is a spreadsheet – sorry. There was a spreadsheet of action items such as what has been – which was done, well, quite awhile back. And I think this will be updated as a google.doc spreadsheet. And then we will also tackling it, but primarily on the secretariats meeting list.
And let's see, I am trying to think of – I think what were the other issues we talked about. Those are the key ones, I think. Heidi, is there anything--?
Heidi Ullrich: Thank you, Dev. And thank you to both Andres and yourself for joining and participating in this first Cross-RALO teleconference in some time, in two years. So, that was very useful.
I did want to highlight one of the particular issues that we spoke about for this meeting, and that is advance of the ALAC teleconference with our new CEO, Rod Beckstrom, that will be held this next Tuesday, we asked all of the secretariat officers to please contact their ALS's urgently to identify upcoming regional events to place into the new calendar that we had developed. I've just put that into the Skype chat. That will list all of the upcoming events that ALS's are going to go to in order to show the new CEO how we can – how active we are in At Large and also to discuss ways in which there could be more coordination between the other divisions of ICANN and the RALOs.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Thanks, Heidi.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) Yeah. I guess is that important to – during this meeting to have – you know, to show a very good participation and, you know, knowledge about what's going on with them.
Heidi Ullrich: So, I believe that Dev and Andres will be putting out on the LACRALO list, maybe today or tomorrow, a call to identify the upcoming events that the ALS's in LACRALO will be attending. And to send the details. Thank you.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: This is Dev. I'll just need – I'll just add that as an action item.
Heidi Ullrich: Thank you, Dev.
Are we waiting for the translation?
Interpreter: No. Nobody's speaking and I'm wondering if Andres got disconnected again. Let me see, okay? Or let me confirm.
Heidi Ullrich: So, Dev, we just have the Seoul and recent activities of ALAC.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Yes. Okay.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) Okay. So now finally point eight before finishing because we've been doing this for two and a half hours, almost three hours. You know, I wanted to know – you know, I wanted to tell you guys what happened in Rio. You know, that it was a great meeting and there's a lot to say in regards to Rio. So, I'm going to post here the actual link there so a lot of you guys can see what happened in this meeting. And this is a twitter. So that way you guys can actually see what happened in Rio.
Vanda Scartezini: Vanda speaking. I was there with Andres, too. So, it was really a good one, a good – very good meeting in our region.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) There are some portions in Spanish and other portions in English that you guys will see there in twitter. There were a lot of Spanish panels and they were very complete. There was a lot to say because there were four panels. They were – you know, there was a panel on ACME (ph) for example and then an explanation on the organization and the turnout for participation that they have. And ACME is an actual forum where the assignment and regional assigned domain name is actually discussed and dealt with. So, that's actually something very interesting and there is a lot of participation that organization gets. And I know that a lot of you guys are members. But you know, in regards to ACME, you know, LACRALO needs to consider a lot of the opportunities that we can get in order to get more participation. And second of all, the forum has to do with politics. You know, we go back to the contribution issue again, but this is ACME.
So really, this is an effort for us to actually unite, basically. And this is an example that we should actually try to follow. You know, there is a lot of information that circulates all the time. But you know, the opportunity to have and to actual make things done, that's something that we'll have to discuss. You know, it's a matter of more capacitive building and how to make that better among the LACRALO members. And you know, a lot of the members on the list, you know, need to try to do a bit more. You know, and once again, in Sydney we discussed this as well.
You know, we also discussed having more access, for example, to more courses. You know, we also spoke about At Large in regard to these panels as well. You know, the idea would be as well to – like the CTU forum, for example, which was another one that has a panel. You know, there was a great majority of their members on the list. And you know, I know that, there weren't from LACRALO. But you know, the people that are able to actually participate in these things, who got more participation, that would be important. The idea is basically to generate opportunities for LACRALO members and that's really the issue. And there's a lot of links that I'm posting here for a lot of you guys so you can see what happened there.
Carlos Aguirre: (Interpreted.) And Andres – and this is Carlos Aguirre. And I just want to say bye because, you know, it's gonna be three hours and my time is now gone.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) And mine as well.
Interpreter: So, Carlos Aguirre says thank you and bye to everyone.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) Okay. Now, does anybody else want to say something? Otherwise, I think that will be the end of the meeting then.
Heidi Ullrich: Yeah. This is Heidi. If I could just have one very quick point, please, or request.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) Go ahead.
Heidi Ullrich: Just in terms of the Seoul meeting, please do look at the link I've just put into the Skype chat and add your suggestions for the Seoul meetings, all of the At Large meetings. And also, if LACRALO would like a physical meeting during the Seoul meeting, where those who are going to be there would like to have a call with those back in LACRALO to keep up to date what's going on, please inform us by the 1st of September. That is our deadline to make rooms available for you.
Vanda Scartezini: Okay. This is very important, Heidi, because last time we needed to sit and discuss a little bit and there was no room in Mexico. So, it's very, very important to have this program done timely.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) That would be good. And I see the link there. Yes.
Does anybody else want to say something else, or are we done?
(Unintelligible.)
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) In that case--.
Vanda Scartezini: Okay. Thank you for--.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) Goodbye to everybody. And then until the next teleconference.
Heidi Ullrich: Thank you.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) And I ask all of you--.
Vanda Scartezini: Thank you for work, too.
Andres Piazza: (Interpreted.) Who've actually committed to volunteer, either in the groups or, you know, in the public consultation period, to actually go ahead and really start contributing. And you know, just to go along with the suggestions. And goodbye to everybody and thank you. Take care.
Heidi Ullrich: And thanks to the translator. Thank you very much, Maya.
Interpreter: You're welcome. And it's always a pleasure. Take care.
Heidi Ullrich: Bye-bye. Thank you.
Interpreter: Bye-Bye.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Heidi?
Heidi Ullrich: Yes?
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Okay. Well, maybe should we (unintelligible) after or should I call you back or--?
Heidi Ullrich: Yes. I can call you right back. If you could just Skype me your number?
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Sure.
Heidi Ullrich: Okay. Bye-Bye.
Dev Anand Teelucksingh: Bye-Bye.
